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2021 Miami Dolphins - Heads need to roll, Tua? Flores? Who?


SwampDawg

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Miami is going to go Left Tackle in this draft, feels like maybe with their top pick at No 5. 

I'm not sold they are going QB, it's funny when Tua busted his hip is about the time Miami started to Fitz-magically win football games. 

The Dolphins need an OL and they have NOTHING at Tackle on either side of that O-line. Maybe Jesse Davis can go to RT, Flowers at LG, Rookie LT, Rookie Center which I am still targeting in the 2nd round of the Draft, two pretty good ones which I highlighted in a previous post. 

Defense Front-7 

C.Wilkins-D.Godchaux-Taco 

Shaq-Baker-McMillan-Van Noy 

 

Secondary

-Howard, B.Jones, E.Rowe...Jones at one time played Free Safety and did pretty well there.

There are some other Secondary pieces like R.Jones but at $15M or whatever he is set to make, not sure what Miami wants to do. They still lose like $10M if they release him vs they lose $1M if they cut Albert Wilson, which guy would you prefer? At the moment they are rolling with both of them.  

 

Try and remember this team was 5-4 down the stretch and finding their footing on defense, one of Brady's last memories as a Patriot was Eric Rowe taking it to the house, in Brady's house. They can still draft another Edge type which I expect them to do with one of their first 5 picks out of the first 56. 

Miami did nail down some starters, potentially 4 of them, more help will come thru the Draft and now maybe they can focus on a few guys that are NOT $10M a season in free agency in the coming days. 

And also we have the Texans 1st and 2nd in 2021 to build on...they didn't get a lot better getting rid of Hopkins. 

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Disagree MOP.  Byron Jones is a top corner and grades out extremely high in press coverage.  The Flores system is based on the corners being in press vs zone and he now has two lockdown corners for that.

The Shaq/Flowers signings are overpriced, but Miami has money to burn so giving front-loaded 3 year contracts really doesn't matter.  Needed to get starter worthy linemen in Free Agency and the Draft.

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25 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Defense Front-7 

C.Wilkins-D.Godchaux-Taco 

Shaq-Baker-McMillan-Van Noy 

Secondary

-Howard, B.Jones, E.Rowe...Jones at one time played Free Safety and did pretty well there.

 

Front 7 instantly looks a lot better.

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23 minutes ago, Slapdash said:

Disagree MOP.  Byron Jones is a top corner and grades out extremely high in press coverage.  The Flores system is based on the corners being in press vs zone and he now has two lockdown corners for that.

The Shaq/Flowers signings are overpriced, but Miami has money to burn so giving front-loaded 3 year contracts really doesn't matter.  Needed to get starter worthy linemen in Free Agency and the Draft.

The Miami fan base has largely been disagreeing with me for a long time but I am starting to warm up to the idea that all 3 of the defensive signings play on each other. Shaq and Van Noy plus Taco Charlton(5 sacks/5 games) and they don't have to all be sacks but if they can shorten the time the QB has and that ball has to come out a lot sooner, now the back end can shine and make big plays. I think Miami is going to see a lot more turnovers and short fields for their offense. 

CBS Grades

Flowers "C-" and meanwhile Conklin is graded an "A" by the Browns. Miami had the money to sign him and I really would have preferred solidifying one of the Tackle spots before the draft and let Davis stay inside at OG. $14M per year vs $10M per year for a team that had piles of cash to burn. He graded out at 64.5 on PFF last year but I have no idea what that means. 6 penalties and 2 sacks but OG don't usually allow a ton of sacks or they get cut pretty quick. 

Shaq gets a "B-" and that's about how I feel, maybe a little stronger just because I feel he could get better and his numbers are trending up. If he hits, this will look great for 2-3 years while they try and develop more young talent. 

Jones is a "B+" and as I am reading more stats, it seems to back your position Slap but I still want to say that he hasn't registered an interception since 2017. But I'll be anxious to see what the highest paid tandem at Corner looks like. Is this the best since...Madison/Surtain? 

Van Noy, A- and that's about what I feel as well, I think it's a solid A and will bring a lot of leadership and inspire the best from guys in that front 7. 

Edited by Ministry of Pain
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11 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Flowers "C-" and meanwhile Conklin is graded an "A" by the Browns. Miami had the money to sign him and I really would have preferred solidifying one of the Tackle spots before the draft and let Davis stay inside at OG. $14M per year vs $10M per year for a team that had piles of cash to burn. He graded out at 64.5 on PFF last year but I have no idea what that means. 6 penalties and 2 sacks but OG don't usually allow a ton of sacks or they get cut pretty quick. 

 

Agreed here.  A tackle is always a lot more worth it than a guard in today's NFL.

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13 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

Not trying to impose a jinx, but all of the sudden the Dolphins are looking like a contender for the AFC East. 

They need to get the running game straightened out.  The offensive line came into the offseason needing 4-5 new starters.  Need at least two running backs too.

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8 minutes ago, Slapdash said:

Agreed, but still needs to happen.

Not a Dolphins fan, but I would hope they stick with Fitzpatrick for at least next year and don't rush into the "QB of the future". Fitzmagic is good enough to win for a year or two. Plus he's fun to watch, a guy you like to root for. 

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1 hour ago, Slapdash said:

They need to get the running game straightened out.  The offensive line came into the offseason needing 4-5 new starters.  Need at least two running backs too.

Would like to see Freeman land here as part of a 1-2 with a rookie to be taken in the Draft and can learn the ropes behind him. I expect 2 rookies to start on the OL. 

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1 hour ago, Slapdash said:

Omar Kelly

@OmarKelly ·6m

Defensive end Emmanuel Ogbah has agreed to terms with the Miami Dolphins on a 2 year deal worth $15M with $7.5M fully guaranteed according to

@RosenhausSports

. Great signing. Former man crush alum for me.

 

1 minute ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Defense Front-7 

C.Wilkins-D.Godchaux-Ogbah 

Shaq-Baker-McMillan-Van Noy

 

So now you have 3 new faces in the Front 7, still the Draft to add some more. 

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12 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Would like to see Freeman land here as part of a 1-2 with a rookie to be taken in the Draft and can learn the ropes behind him. I expect 2 rookies to start on the OL. 

Always liked Devonta and should be on the cheaper side.

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53 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

Not a Dolphins fan, but I would hope they stick with Fitzpatrick for at least next year and don't rush into the "QB of the future". Fitzmagic is good enough to win for a year or two. Plus he's fun to watch, a guy you like to root for. 

We've been trying to build a good team around mediocre QB play every year since Marino retired.  I am so tired of it.  Yes you can win in the NFL by building a good team and having adequate QB play.  But if you have a superstar QB it is so much easier.

I am ready for another superstar QB like I grew up watching.  I don't care what it takes to get that.

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16 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

We've been trying to build a good team around mediocre QB play every year since Marino retired.  I am so tired of it.  Yes you can win in the NFL by building a good team and having adequate QB play.  But if you have a superstar QB it is so much easier.

I am ready for another superstar QB like I grew up watching.  I don't care what it takes to get that.

Get Tua, let him sit and learn.  Has always been my preference. 

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I know we have spent wastefully through the years on FA, but this year has a different feel to it for me. Last year was rough even though we really accomplished our goal in we found our next Don Shula so IMO the season was a success...............

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Howard was 3rd in rushing yards from a 3 year total 2016-2018 with only Zeke and Gurley totaling more rushing yards fyi...

He's 25 years old, his season was cut short last year with injuries. Let's see what he can do, didn't cost a whole lot. 

I'm at about $62.5 Million that has been added to the yearly payroll give or take. 

Still woulda liked Fowler and Conklin but Miami has filled out several starting spots. A lot of the talent in New England was always on their back end and it seems Miami is making that a top priority. 

-Are these long term answers or is that coming thru these many draft picks? Are we trying to go 8-8 and get out of the running for Lawrence? 

I guess if you have those 2021 1st and 2nd in your back pocket, you could use one to slide up, you do that and take Tua, can you sit him all season? 4 Weeks, 8 weeks?

Edited by Ministry of Pain
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7 hours ago, TripleThreat said:

the real is feels different "for me" is that Flores is a teacher who helps guys grow vs expecting guys to just get it. 

I'm somewhat there.  He certainly has shipped out a lot of talent that doesn't get his system, but the development last year is immense.  Cautious optimism.  Was sold on Gase year one too....  

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Ted Karras 1 yr deal

New England offered him a deal of similar or perhaps even better value, he chose here...that's interesting. 

You now have Flowers at LG possibly and Karras at Center, Dieter at RG maybe and Jesse Davis competing at RT, this OL is already better than last year. 

Trying to curb the enthusiasm but I also think this coach is the real deal, the one to get us back to respectability at least. Seems like some of his former players like him a lot as well. 

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C/G Ted Karras: "A" I say. We just got so much better by adding him and getting stronger in the middle of the OL. 

This guy is in his prime and took a 1 yr/$4 Million deal to come be our starting Guard or Center. Now I still like a couple of guys in the draft but Miami is giving themselves a lot of flexibility in what they want to accomplish on Draft Night. 

LB Kamu Grugier-Hill:  "B" for me and I think he is being paid as 2 down type LB because he is not that good in pass coverage but he is solid in rush defense. He will likely compete with Raekwon at ILB and give Baker a breather as well. 

LB/ST Elandon Roberts: Sort of a do it all type from wha I am gathering. 6th Round pick, 25 years old, was a team captain in New England and very unselfish, something Flores wants to bring into the locker room for Miami. "B+" and hope the price tag was easy to work with. 

All 3 of these were drafted by the Patriots, all 3 were drafted in the 6th round, all of them similar age, perhaps even drafted all the same year. 

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45 minutes ago, ChuckLiddell said:

Lions trading Slay is potentially an under the radar awesome thing for Miami IMO.  They may now sit tight at 3 and take the stud CB (Okbah?).  If so, it means they arent trading out of the 3 spot to a team that may have wanted to leapfrog us for Tua.  

this has been my hope all along... increases theie demand for Okudah so they don't want to move back below 5.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Lots and lots of chatter about Herbert to Miami. Either a very elaborate smokescreen or trial balloons so the fan base doesn’t have a meltdown in a few weeks. 

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14 hours ago, Trey said:

Lots and lots of chatter about Herbert to Miami. Either a very elaborate smokescreen or trial balloons so the fan base doesn’t have a meltdown in a few weeks. 

Guessing some of both, might be a smokescreen to try and drive the price down with Detroit and also to set the stage if they can't.won't move up and Tua goes before they pick.  As a fan two things I hope don't happen.

  1. They trade up and take Herbert, if they truly like him and you want to hold on to all your picks and go that way if Tua is gone at 5 then so be it but I don't see any way you trade up.
  2. I really hope that they aren't thinking Herbert because he is the safer pick, that is how you become an 8-8 team for the next 6 or 7 years.
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28 minutes ago, SwampDawg said:

Guessing some of both, might be a smokescreen to try and drive the price down with Detroit and also to set the stage if they can't.won't move up and Tua goes before they pick.  As a fan two things I hope don't happen.

  1. They trade up and take Herbert, if they truly like him and you want to hold on to all your picks and go that way if Tua is gone at 5 then so be it but I don't see any way you trade up.
  2. I really hope that they aren't thinking Herbert because he is the safer pick, that is how you become an 8-8 team for the next 6 or 7 years.

If Tua isn't there, would rather grab Love later on.  Herbert is not a QB that has "it" IMO

I don't really feel the need to reach for a QB with Fitz and Rosen already on the roster.  Maybe that is crazy.

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5 hours ago, Slapdash said:

If Tua isn't there, would rather grab Love later on.  Herbert is not a QB that has "it" IMO

I don't really feel the need to reach for a QB with Fitz and Rosen already on the roster.  Maybe that is crazy.

Been on that train for a while, they could literally almost reload entirely thru this draft and be ready for Love to take over at some point, if not 2020 then by 2021.

-They are loaded for 2021 as well, they could potentially have a window of 2021 and 2022 before the Rookie QB would be eligible for the extension. The beauty of a 1st Round QB is Miami can ride him for 4 years and then pick up the 5th year option before they ever Franchise Tag him...all of it points to Miami being in the driver's seat come Draft Night. I honestly expect them to trade down and add more picks and increase their chances of hitting a few home runs along the way. 

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I, like 95% of the fan base have been clamoring for a QB since you know who retired, but this team has holes all throughout the roster. I still say we trade back throughout the draft and accumulate more draft capital and pick for value at every given chance. This team has a chance to really load up on talent for the first time since I can remember. If it's means we don't get a shot at Tua, JH, or Love so be it. Let's get an infusion of talent at every position possible while we can.

 

Fin

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57 minutes ago, Finatic said:

I, like 95% of the fan base have been clamoring for a QB since you know who retired, but this team has holes all throughout the roster. I still say we trade back throughout the draft and accumulate more draft capital and pick for value at every given chance. This team has a chance to really load up on talent for the first time since I can remember. If it's means we don't get a shot at Tua, JH, or Love so be it. Let's get an infusion of talent at every position possible while we can.

 

Fin

I disagree,you aren't in the position to take a franchise QB very often, we already have 3 first round and 2 second round picks which is a huge infusion of talent. If they truly believe Tua or Hebert to be that you need to pull the trigger.If you trade back from 5 to just say 19 if the Raiders want a QB you are going to pick up the 19 and a third and maybe a 2nd next year. You likely aren't going to be in position to go after one of the top 2 QB's next year if these picks work out at also you'll still be looking for a QB.

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19 minutes ago, SwampDawg said:

I disagree,you aren't in the position to take a franchise QB very often, we already have 3 first round and 2 second round picks which is a huge infusion of talent. If they truly believe Tua or Hebert to be that you need to pull the trigger.If you trade back from 5 to just say 19 if the Raiders want a QB you are going to pick up the 19 and a third and maybe a 2nd next year. You likely aren't going to be in position to go after one of the top 2 QB's next year if these picks work out at also you'll still be looking for a QB.

If they move from 5 to 19, they'd get at least a 1st in 2021. A future 2nd and a 3rd probably doesn't even get the Raiders from 12 to 5.

I'm in the camp that hopes we don't force it at QB. If someone jumps us for Tua and we aren't enamored with Herbert, move down and take a shot on Love or even Hurts later in the 1st. If Tua is there and we're comfortable with the medicals, or if a reasonable trade to move up is necessary, fine. Or even if we are comfortable with Herbert at 5 (I'm not a fan, but I also suck at evaluating QBs).

I'm hoping we come out of the top 70 with Tua and an OT in the 1st, one of the top IOL since the class is not deep at all there, and a rangy safety. I Wouldn't be upset at all to see 3 OL taken by pick 70, grabbing a guy like Saahdiq Charles at 70. 

Edited by jtd13
fixed grammar
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  • Joe Bryant changed the title to 2021 Miami Dolphins - Heads need to roll, Tua? Flores? Who?

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