Man In The Box
Footballguy
Been AWOL for a while, but I’m looking forward to the weekend. I’d love for Sewell to slip to 6 and take him. Then trade up and get Smith or Waddle. We have a ton of capital. Let’s use it and get some studs 
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2024 Miami Dolphins: The offseason begins. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter SwampDawg
- Start date
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
You are, and time will tell, but chase was smith in 2019 and he is a bigger version. Pitts is my classic "I liked him before it was cool" type of player. During the college season, I hoped he would be available to the Dolphins at 18 (being a TE and all), then he just kept rising. The last player that Miami I thought Miami Should draft but rose above our pick was Flacco. There have been some others but I don't recall them right now.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
In terms of production, yes, but Chase relies much more on his athleticism to get open than Smith. As most highly drafted WRs do. Smith just seems like a big outlier to my eyes in how he gains separation from intelligent route running. I'm not a scout or anything.Gatorman said:
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
I agree wholeheartedly with this take. Ok, sure, he is lanky and thin, but he became the #1 wideout at Alabama where the competition is fierce and then lit up the sec and the national championship and oh, by the way, caught tua’s championship TD when they both were freshman.
Therein lies the rub: on film there is really no wrong answer between the 4 players in question (at receiver). All played well in a great conference. All kind of dominated to a certain extent as well (waddle less so, but again, speed) so it’s hard to really have a wrong opinion here. This is one of those where future history will determine the correct pick. My rankings are pitts, chase, smith, and waddle. This is more in terms of scheme fit for Miami than anything else. However if Miami thinks that with Williams, fuller, and Parker their outside wrs are set, then I could see it be pitts waddle smith and then chase.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Fuller is just a 1 year rental fyi, highly doubt he is ale to garner a long term deal thru Miami.
I do think it would be good to get a speedy WR that could learn for 1 year behind Fuller or alongside him. It's likely Parker and Rookie-WR from this draft class in 2022.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
There are a lot of one year wr rentals this year due to the cap changes from the pandemic. I do not disagree with the take and again I’m fine with almost anyone the dolphins take at 6.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Yeah. There is very likely a Whammy or two in this bunch, but no real red flags ahead of time in them. Sewell too.
TripleThreat
Footballguy
more space
@RapSheet
·
6m
For the Washington Football Team, their moves in free agency eliminated some holes and allowed the opportunity to take best player available in the draft. Same idea here. Ereck Flowers will come in, compete to start, and allow them to follow their board.
Quote Tweet
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
· 10m
The #Dolphins and Washington Football Team are in agreement on a trade to send guard Ereck Flowers to WFT in a deal involving a swap of late-round picks, sources say. The deal is being finalized. Frees up some money for Miami, while giving Washington an OL to compete to start.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I don't love the move and will wait to hear more, this was a big part of the OL and he was $10M in dead cap space vs his $10M salary so they couldn't release him.
-I
the post though because you keep bringing great info in here TT and it's much appreciated. I didn't know this, first I'm hearign or reading about it, thank you so much. From Barry Jackson, and it does have draft ramifications.I don't love the move and will wait to hear more, this was a big part of the OL and he was $10M in dead cap space vs his $10M salary so they couldn't release him.
-I
>>Dolphins clear out $8 M in cap space by dealing Flowers; will carry $2 M in dead money. That increases Dolphins cap space from $7.3 M to $15.3 M. Per overthecap. com, savings would be slightly more ($9 M) in a post-June 1 trade.<<
https://mobile.twitter.com/flasportsbuzz/status/1387056865645932544
More from Barry Jackson:
>>Dolphins have been eyeing centers in draft and some of those prospects naturally can play guard. Add one of those to top interior line options on roster (Kindley, Jesse Davis, Fluker, center Matt Skura) and that would be 5 for 3 spots (with Jackson and Hunt at tackle).<<
>>Dolphins have been eyeing centers in draft and some of those prospects naturally can play guard. Add one of those to top interior line options on roster (Kindley, Jesse Davis, Fluker, center Matt Skura) and that would be 5 for 3 spots (with Jackson and Hunt at tackle).<<
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
It feels like Miami is settling in on their Two Tackle spots with the guys they drafted last year, Jackson and Hunt. That takes them out of the OT sweepstakes and there are some decent guys later but it would seem like Miami is zoning in on IOL at say 18-36-50, somewhere they are looking to add some beef inside.
Quinn Meinerz from Whitewater Wisconsin solves a lot of problems. The Vera-Tucker kid from USC would need to be a much higher selection but I only point to him since they like Jackson from same school. Smith at 6, Edge-18, OL at 36 or 50, maybe they go RB at the other spot. 3 on Offense, 1 on Defense should keep the Natives happy.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Didn't even read your post yet when I started typing mine.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
BTW Phinsfans: Guys like Michael Dieter, back-up IOL/C who will have every chance to compete in year 3 of his rookie contract and that is what i am focusing on. He is costing us like nothing, maybe half a million and I know he hasn't shown much but he did start almost his entire rookie season, he didn't play much last year but they haven't cut him and all things being equal why not let him continue to learn and grow and if he can earn a back up spot, he walks after 4 years and signs elsewhere we actually recoup a pick for that. like a 3rd or 4th, the patriots make a living doing this very thing.
So keep drafting more and more guys to fill up roster spots so we can use the extra bucks judicially moving forward.
So keep drafting more and more guys to fill up roster spots so we can use the extra bucks judicially moving forward.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
The 1.06 in 2020 received $26M over 4 years FULLY Guaranteed
The 1.05 in 2020 received $30M over 4 yrs FULLY Guaranteed (Tua)
The 2021 1.06 would appear to fall between the two of these and that is roughly $7M against the cap and Miami needed some cap space when they parted with Flowers.
The 1.05 in 2020 received $30M over 4 yrs FULLY Guaranteed (Tua)
The 2021 1.06 would appear to fall between the two of these and that is roughly $7M against the cap and Miami needed some cap space when they parted with Flowers.
Another take on the Flowers trade is to move Hunt from RT to guard, where some believe he could be really all-pro. He was the best of our 3 rookie o-linemen last year. Then Sewell at RT protects Tua's blindside. In 2023, Sewell could move back to LT and protect the next QB's blindside if Tua doesn't work out.
There's also the possibility of give the OT cut from KC a shot if he recovers from back surgery - Schwartz. He was very good at one time.
MOP, I agree let Deiter compete at center with Skura, who was good at pass protection, but bad at everything else with the Ravens.
https://mobile.twitter.com/flasportsbuzz/status/1387068353433554948
There's also the possibility of give the OT cut from KC a shot if he recovers from back surgery - Schwartz. He was very good at one time.
MOP, I agree let Deiter compete at center with Skura, who was good at pass protection, but bad at everything else with the Ravens.
https://mobile.twitter.com/flasportsbuzz/status/1387068353433554948
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Some thoughts on the cap and the last 15 months or 2 off seasons and free agents.
-We spent a ton of money last year and have very little to show for it. All of the free agents we signed in the last season or two are gone. And not to sound like a broken record but if there were career replacements than i would understand and rejoice but it is mostly question marks everywhere at the moment.
-Shaq, Kyle Van Noy, Flowers, Howard, Breida, Fitz, how is Miami going to replace these guys? I know they have taken steps for some of them but there's a lot of holes that are not filled right now. All of the guys we signed this year are mostly 1 year deals, hard to build consistency like that.
Miami is roughly $11.5M under the cap and I think the two 1st round picks are going to take them fairly close to the cap and they still need to sign all of their rookies. Look for more cuts down the road, especially after June 1st.
-We spent a ton of money last year and have very little to show for it. All of the free agents we signed in the last season or two are gone. And not to sound like a broken record but if there were career replacements than i would understand and rejoice but it is mostly question marks everywhere at the moment.
-Shaq, Kyle Van Noy, Flowers, Howard, Breida, Fitz, how is Miami going to replace these guys? I know they have taken steps for some of them but there's a lot of holes that are not filled right now. All of the guys we signed this year are mostly 1 year deals, hard to build consistency like that.
Miami is roughly $11.5M under the cap and I think the two 1st round picks are going to take them fairly close to the cap and they still need to sign all of their rookies. Look for more cuts down the road, especially after June 1st.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
2020 Salaries or money spent with signing bonuses...
-Kyle Van Noy $15M so don't cry for him too hard.
-Ereck Flowers...This one is rich...$11M in 2020 and $6M they will pick up of his 2021 salary so $17M in total for his services.
-Shaq Lawson $13.5M so again don't feel too bad for him and since he was traded he won't really lose any money on his deal he signed with Miami.
-Byron Jones $26M...just saying
Does Grier get any credit for these moves?
-Kyle Van Noy $15M so don't cry for him too hard.
-Ereck Flowers...This one is rich...$11M in 2020 and $6M they will pick up of his 2021 salary so $17M in total for his services.
-Shaq Lawson $13.5M so again don't feel too bad for him and since he was traded he won't really lose any money on his deal he signed with Miami.
-Byron Jones $26M...just saying
Does Grier get any credit for these moves?
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Desert_Power
Footballguy
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I wish they could do similar with Jones at Cornerback what they did with Flowers at LG.
Slide back a few spots with the Dallas Cowboys and with the 10th pick in the 2021 NFL Draft, the Miami Dolphins select Patrick Surtain the II. Just has a ring to it if were to come here like his father did. Plus he won't cost us $17M a season.
My Spidey sense is telling me that perhaps 1 of these WRs is going to fall just a little and that could open things up for Miami with their 18th pick and perhaps moving up to go get another potential stud.
I still have Miami going Smith at 6 if they stay where they are.
Slide back a few spots with the Dallas Cowboys and with the 10th pick in the 2021 NFL Draft, the Miami Dolphins select Patrick Surtain the II. Just has a ring to it if were to come here like his father did. Plus he won't cost us $17M a season.
My Spidey sense is telling me that perhaps 1 of these WRs is going to fall just a little and that could open things up for Miami with their 18th pick and perhaps moving up to go get another potential stud.
I still have Miami going Smith at 6 if they stay where they are.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Eric Studesville(Who?) our new Co-Offensive Coordianator, take a guess where he went to college?
University of Wisconsin-Whitewater, same exact college our boy Meinerz went to. Some folks have no clue who he is, was sort of a 3rd-4th round prospect until he shot up the boards and learned every aspect of the OL, can play Center and Guard for the most part but NFL teams think he could be truly capable of both and that makes him standout. A ready to go plug n play that will solve a lot of IOL issues for teams be it run or pass, this guy has a motor and drive like few in his class.
From my little bit of info on the combo OC team, they were put together to design an offense to cater to what Tua does well. Gut feeling says Meinerz is our guy and with Flowers gone there is clearly a couple ways Miami can now go. They can draft a top OT if they want and send Hunt inside with Kindley, that's possible. They can go after a guy like Meinerz as early as No 36 in the 2nd. Or Miami could surprise a few folks and invest 2 more quality picks into their OL and let whoever doesn't cut be the No 6 guy off the bench. This Line issue has to be solved before we ever get better.
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Unless there is a trade by ATL for a QB needy team, I see Miami going Smith or Waddle. Waddle would be an instant starter at punt return and slot WR, whereas Smith might be in a rotation at WR in 2021. After seeing more videos, I'm leaning towards speed and Waddle.
If Miami trades down to Denver at 9, they could still should get one of the Bama WRs - it would only fail if both Detroit and Carolina choose WRs, which is unlikely. The draft gain would be something like Denver's 3rd in 2021 and a future 4th.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
With teams talking to Atlanta at 4 not just for QBs but for Chase, this is getting interesting. Also, New England being rumored to want to move up to 7 or 8 has to make Denver nervous if QB is their lean. The neverending leadup to the draft continues.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
1.18 Kwitty Paye may or may not be a household name to some of you but he checks most of te boxes for something we need in the front 7 plus Ogbah is not signed past this season, they need someone who can play EDGE but also line up at DE in a base 3-4 at times, think Paye can do both but he is not a tweener. In fact he weighs north of 260 if my numbers are correct. There are other guys Miami can look at here, 2 played down the bock from the Phins at the Univ of Miami but one of them did not play at all in 2020 and the other retired due to concussions before transferring to Miami and have a great season last year. I like Oweh from Penn State but cannot understand how the guy had zero sacks...he does bring the heat though and causes a lot of disruption. If Micah drops this far due to recent reports surfacing it's always possible will try to grab him.1.06 Devonta Smith had an amazing year, one for just about ALL Time at Alabama and despite his thinner frame, Miami has to feel like they can work him into the offense and a guy like Fuller can show him the ropes for 1 year and then go his merry way leaving Parker and Smith to run things and Miami will continue to draft WRs in future drafts to gain weapons as turkeys like Albert Wilson and the like find their way off this team.
-This is what I think Miami is doing and who they want and the ability to trade down and collect multiple picks, burn only one to move back up to get the guy you want(Almost like a free pick) and still field offers thru Draft night in case someone wants to make a crazy offer like if Chicago says here is the 20 and the 52 and a '22 1st and a '23 1st/2nd, yeah I start thinking it might be a good deal to slide back and then target one of the WRs in the 4-7 range on Kiper's Board or any of these so called Draft experts. I'm not endorsing Smith as a good idea but Marino had this guy with 4.2/4.3 speed named Mark Duper who exploded the offense when he burst on the scene along with Marino, Tua could use a speed demon to see what he can do, Fuller is a 1-year bridge and will miss Week 1 to boot if my info is correct.
-Patriots move up to 4 in order to select Mac Jones and Atlanta moves back to 15. Trey Lance or Justin Fields will be there at 6 so Miami could slide back with Denver perhaps. I see Pitts going to Carolina at 8, not sure about Detroit at 7 but maybe they take the 1st WR off the board with Chase, Miami sits at 9 and takes Smith there. You can debate this until the cows come home but Miami still can squeeze some more juice out of their original pick and select a game changer.
I am focusing on Smith as their top pick, again I might not select him at 6 but I feel like Miami will take him if given the opportunity, hopefully this is not Teddy Ginn Jr all over again. I know he's way more talented, Smith of course.
Fan base would like Najee Harris in this spot and I will understand when his name is called but Miami 1st round RBs in the last 30-35 years have not done very well.
2.36 Javonte Williams because Miami has to know they need some pop in the back field to help out Tua. Some of that is on the OL which I am about to get to. I like Williams, good size, would add plenty to the junk we have pieced together back there. Let's not pretend Myles Gaskin is really blazing a trail thru the NFL, Mark Higgs had better moves back in the day. Williams weighs in a pretty stout 225 at only 5-10, I think he can do a lot of things for our offense.
2.50 Quinn Meinerz as I mentioned earlier attended the same college, Wisconsin-Whitewater as our OC Studesville. That connection might be all the Phins need to take the plunge and draft this guy who can play both Guard or Center and blew a lot of coaches and scouts away at the Senior Bowl where he got an invite even though he couldn't play in 2020, Whitewater canceled their season.
3 on Offense, WR-RB-IOL and then EDGE/Front-7, something along those lines is what i expect in the first 2 rounds tomorrow and Friday.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Must have been where I was reading up on this guy, there have been a few articles on him. Miami coached him at the Senior Bowl so maybe they take him as high as their 36 pick. Could be a little high but we need to get the middle of that OL filled for good.
That would be a nice haul for Miami. I think it's Smith or Waddle at 1.06. We have no 4th or 6th round pick, so this draft is about quality in the first 3 rounds. For 3.82, it should be BPA on the defensive side. How about Paulson Adebo, Stanford CB, who won and lost some battles with Herbert? Former WR with good ball skills, has size and could compete with your favorite Dolphin, Byron Jones. If QB Mond falls, I'd consider him.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
I would not be devastated with Smith or Waddle at 6, but to me if Chase and Pitts are gone, you take Sewell there and address the WR spot with the 18 or 36. We have 3 quality starting WRs, and a well-below average OL. Chase is the one WR I would take at 6 personally. The others guys will probably be great pros, but give me the generational OT who looks to me like as close to a cant miss as there is. It isnt as exciting, but the entire offense starts at the OL. 1/2 extra second in the pocket or a hole 2 inches wider to run through could be the difference in a 50 yard TD or no gain.
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Desert_Power
Footballguy
Read this mock earlier that has Smith and Waddle falling a bit. So Miami takes Sewell at 6 then trades up to 14 to grab Smith. It moved.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
The Slim Reaper getting very little love from the fan base in here.
I am on board at 18, I posted Paye as my selection and he might not make ti that far down the list. There are a couple others and I am sure the Miami fan base would love to see one of the U of M Edge guys get drafted on to the Phins.
-Don't overlook Surtain and Jaycee Horn, I could see Miami moving one of their Cornerbacks and selecting a new one, that doesn't really make Miami better on the surface but over the next 2-3 years it would put them in better shape.
I think Miami needs one young Safety at some point to add into the mix. Moerhig, Grant, Holland, I like them ALL.
TripleThreat
Footballguy
I've long thought that 4QBs then Sewell Chase. Atlanta taking Pitts or trading back for someone to select him seems likely.
Sustain and Horn will likely be gone at 1.18 to the Cowboys, Eagles or Cardinals. I'll pass on Farley and take a sure thing like Moehring, Collins, JOK, or Slater if he falls and Miami's first pick is a WR. I don't think Moehring lasts to 2.04. There's a small chance that Parsons falls to 1.18.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
And that's why I think Miami could slide back 3-4-5 spots and still come away with a huge haul in the Draft this year with more Draft capital going into 2022.
I do not think they will trade back at this point and whichever WR they take at 6, that's going to be the guy they were targeting all along...would so prefer they target Elijah Moore just a little later in the draft since WR doesn't appear to be a need.
Moerhig will go middle of the 1st to later 1st IMHO, he will make any defense better up the middle, down the middle, and he reminds me a little of the way John Lynch played Safety, he was pretty good.
2022 will have a much deeper pool of talent than 2021, maybe a surplus, so sliding back and getting a 2nd, 3rd or 4th in 2022 makes sense.
From the Ben Volin of the Boston Globe:
>>All of the changes appear to have had two significant effects. First, a ton of players were scared off from entering the draft. Normal years see anywhere from 1,800-2,000 players sign with agents, but this year it was around 700.
The top of the draft will still have elite talent, but the shallower pool means that the late-round picks and undrafted free agents will be worse than usual. Jeremiah expects teams to aggressively look to trade late-round picks to get higher into the draft or get picks for next year, when the talent pool should be overfilled.<<
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/04/28/sports/this-years-nfl-draft-teams-are-guessing-more-than-ever/?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Hind sight is 20/20 but had we stayed at 12...just accepted the Kings ransom and NOT traded back up, that makes you almost know Miami has their eye on one of the WRs, I personally am hoping it's not Waddle.
Had Miami stayed at 12, they could have been in line to take a Top Edge guy at 12 or OLB, something for the Front 7 and then could still take Elijah Moore or a top RB at 18 and then let the Draft come to them Friday Night at 36 and 50.
I see your point about the later picks but I can point to guys like Gowan at Cornerback from UCF, guy didn't play in 2020 but his work in year's prior make him a real steal on Day 3 where he is being projected if drafted at all. KJ Britt at LB will go late, Marvin Wilson, DT Florida State due to some injuries and other things has fallen way down the boards, there is value out there plus I do like a couple RBs after the flashy names are gone. WR is deep as well, where does Tutu Atwell go?
Elijah Moore reminds me a lot of Antonio Brown who is not very tall either and has good speed and creates space where there is none and makes the tough catches and I know Brown is a head case but Moore isn't. I have him 2nd on MY BOARD after the Slim Reaper if that tells you how I would prefer Miami roll tonight.
How about Sewell at 6 if he makes it and then RB or WR at 18? They have the draft capital to walk out of the Draft tonight with a new OL, RB and WR, that's how much they have at their fingertips if they desire.
Bottom Line, i'd be flexible but I would want to add a skill position and 2 guys to put into my OL and Front-7 with one extra pick to use for BPA wherever that presents itself.
I also would like to point out there are still free agents floating out there and Miami can put themselves in a good financial position to capitalize on some of this. I don't know if people are aware but we traded away OUR OWN 1st round to Philly so there is nothing good that comes out of a 5-11 season this year, do you understand my point? Miami should be using some of their Draft picks to unload more bloated salaries so they can get ahead of the cap but also to go back into free agency after the Draft and get a couple more holes plugged. Miami needs to shoot for the actual Playoffs this year and I don't see a team capable of winning another 10 games at the moment but maybe some of you do. Again, it doesn't serve them well to go 6-10, they've lost that draft pick to move up 6 spots in 2021, doesn't seem like Miami is interested in trading back at all.
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SwampDawg
Footballguy
I'd be fine with Sewell at 6 and one of the WR's if they fall to 18 or and edge but no way I take a RB in the first round. That is a pick for a team ready to make a run right now not a team that still has a bunch of holes.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
lets not forget the dolphins likely want a few more picks later and they also have the "scouting" from coaching at the senior bowl. I see a few of these picks being used for draft capital this year more so than future years.
AS to Miami vs SF pick next year: we play buffalo, NE, and the jets. SF plays Seattle, Arizona, and the Rams. Miami's SOS this year is .471 (27/32) while SF is .489 (19/32). Seems like a good bet to me for 2022
AS to Miami vs SF pick next year: we play buffalo, NE, and the jets. SF plays Seattle, Arizona, and the Rams. Miami's SOS this year is .471 (27/32) while SF is .489 (19/32). Seems like a good bet to me for 2022
And Harris is no Barkley. Maybe not even a JK Dobbins. Michael Carter in the 3rd would provide a good 1-2 combo with Gaskins, and Brown on some short yardage. Cater looks super elusive on video, like Ekeler.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Wait and take Hill from Miss State at that point in like the 5th.
I still like Gainwell quite a lot and think he could be a spark in the back field, not a 3 down guy but certainly someone that can ignite some big plays on certain drives throughout the game. He's not going to lead you to the Super Bowl on his back but he should add a lot more than what Myles provides. Nothing in that back field and I mean nothing including the QB at the moment puts any kind of scare into opposing defenses. We have to change that.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
You know, I'll take whomever they get for the backfield. Harris, Etienne, Williams, Carter, or someone further back in the draft.
The issue, game theory-wise, is they have 5 picks in the top 3 rounds and then one in the 5th and 2 in the 7th, so really they have 6 "impact" picks and then 2 7th rounders.
So, if we stack the 5 "good" picks We'd likely want to see a WR, RB, Edge, maybe a LB or safety, and a lineman. The 5th rounder is likely whichever of those they don't get with their top 5 picks. If they trade back and pick up a few more picks, then they could double up on the O Line or the front 7 of the D.
The 7th rounders are likely guys they would want to offer UDFA contracts to, but Aren't sure they would be the front runners for their services.
9 hours away and counting...
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
TripleThreat
Footballguy
seems more intriguing this year (says it every year).
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Last time Miami had this many options going into the draft they came away with Dion Jordan
There have been recent successes.Last time Miami had this many options going into the draft they came away with Dion Jordan
2018 was Minkah, Gesicki, Baker, Smythe and Sanders. 2 all-pros, 2 other good starters and a backup. A-
2019 was Wilkins, Rosen for a 2nd, Deiter, Van Ginkle and Gaskins. D+. Might get better.
2020 was Tua, Jackson, Noah, Hunt, Davis, Jones, Kindley. C+, Tua and Jackson should get better. Many CBs improve in year 2. Only Hunt looks like he could be all-pro, maybe at RG.
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