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2020 Combine Thread (1 Viewer)

I knew TE's were underpaid but crazy when you put it that way.

I do think the TE market is about to get reset over this and next offseason, but right now it's one of the best team bargain positions in the NFL.
Kittle is going to majorly reset the TE market next year. 

 
If I can find the clip I’ll post it but Mayock had a pretty great take on why WR’s struggle to transition to the NFL. That they end up slowing down off the line due to not knowing how to adjust to the different coverages and multiple routes they may have to run in the NFL. Whereas in the NCAA they may have their own coach assigned to them giving them each individual routes. Said that would (paraphrased) drive Jon Gruden bonkers. Lol

 
Maybe the info is out there somewhere on why they don't, but would it make more sense for many of the combine drills to be done in pads?

Not that there's direct correlation in general from the drills, but seems like it might provide more useful results for actual game performance.

 
Honestly, another guy I would like to see converted: Joe Reed. I’ve watched a number of his kick returns and he seems like he’d make an intriguing RB. He weighs over 220lbs, similar to Antonio Gibson. Could be an interesting multi tool type player. 
Joe Reed was requested to try at RB at the combine. Some of these are procedural so they can see some TE’s at H-Back and some RB’s route running and hands.

https://twitter.com/nfldraft/status/1232727054610649088?s=21

 
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This seems to involve a bunch of overfitting.

e.g., It doesn't make sense for the broad jump to matter for some positions and the vertical to matter for others, especially in the pattern that this found. They're both measuring roughly the same thing. Probably you should be taking some sort of weighted average of the two and using that as the measure of "jumping ability" for all positions. It's plausible that there could be some subtle difference where the vertical is a bit more important relative to the broad jump for smaller/speedier positions and a bit less important for bigger/grappling positions, in which case maybe the weight between the two should shift a bit depending on which end of that spectrum the position is at.

But the thing that this analysis did is to try fitting a bunch of separate variables to each of several different positions, with moderate sample sizes for each one, and keep the variables that fit that subset of data. That leads to fitting your model to noise, so that it matches the random idiosyncrasies of which past players happened to be successful.

 
Speaking of tests that may not matter: 

Hunter Bryant 23 reps

Jared Pinckney 23 reps

Brycen Hopkins 21 reps

Quintez Cephus 23 reps

AGG 22 reps

Joe Reed 21 reps

James Proche 20 reps 

Jalen Reagor 17 reps 

Laviska Shenault 17 reps

Chase Claypool 19 reps

KJ Hamler 15 reps

Harrison Bryant 13 reps

Ceedee Lamb 11 reps

Brandon Aiyuk 11 reps 

Isaiah Hodgins 9 reps

 
Both converted basketball players for sure but Graham played football his last year in college, I don't think Gates played football in college at all but someone correct me on that if I'm wrong.

What was impressive about both of them is they both kind of break out in second half of their rookie seasons. Not to the level they would break out in their second seasons but enough in both cases to let you know.

I distinctly remember doing my FFPC main event the year Graham headed into season two and spending a third round pick on him.

Of course they are the success stories of basketball converts. Then you got Rico Gathers.
Like Kittle and Andrews

 
This seems to involve a bunch of overfitting.

e.g., It doesn't make sense for the broad jump to matter for some positions and the vertical to matter for others, especially in the pattern that this found. They're both measuring roughly the same thing. Probably you should be taking some sort of weighted average of the two and using that as the measure of "jumping ability" for all positions. It's plausible that there could be some subtle difference where the vertical is a bit more important relative to the broad jump for smaller/speedier positions and a bit less important for bigger/grappling positions, in which case maybe the weight between the two should shift a bit depending on which end of that spectrum the position is at.

But the thing that this analysis did is to try fitting a bunch of separate variables to each of several different positions, with moderate sample sizes for each one, and keep the variables that fit that subset of data. That leads to fitting your model to noise, so that it matches the random idiosyncrasies of which past players happened to be successful.
I've been tracking this for years and yes, it does seem to matter. 

ETA: rotoworld is behind, several other sites have already tackled this issue (subject) years ago.

Tex

 
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Under the radar guys that could impress today and be steals in rookie drafts:

Quintez Cephus 

Gabriel Davis 

Collin Johnson

Antonio Gandy-Golden

DPJ

Cephus has started standing out with leading the bench yesterday (AGG as well 1 less (23 and 22)).  Gabe Davis is a personal favorite of mine.  Collin Johnson seems underrated in this process by now.  DPJ could be a physical freak.  

 
Under the radar guys that could impress today and be steals in rookie drafts:

Quintez Cephus 

Gabriel Davis 

Collin Johnson

Antonio Gandy-Golden

DPJ

Cephus has started standing out with leading the bench yesterday (AGG as well 1 less (23 and 22)).  Gabe Davis is a personal favorite of mine.  Collin Johnson seems underrated in this process by now.  DPJ could be a physical freak.  
Hopefully fbg can unearth some more underrated gems like Josh Boyce, Joe Williams, Christine Michael, Pharoh Cooper, and last years hofer Kevin Harmon. 🍿

 
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Under the radar guys that could impress today and be steals in rookie drafts:

Quintez Cephus 

Gabriel Davis 

Collin Johnson

Antonio Gandy-Golden

DPJ

Cephus has started standing out with leading the bench yesterday (AGG as well 1 less (23 and 22)).  Gabe Davis is a personal favorite of mine.  Collin Johnson seems underrated in this process by now.  DPJ could be a physical freak.  
Wasn't the consensus out of the Senior Bowl week that Gandy Golden isn't very good?

 
Wasn't the consensus out of the Senior Bowl week that Gandy Golden isn't very good?
Basically yeah.  But he's small school big production athletic so the idea is he'll grow into a more dominant player.  He's a project, and if he proves athleticism then I think some NFL team will think they can make him be something and boost his stock.  The thing with AGG was he had a few bad drops and mental mistakes, the combine is slow enough where that shouldn't happen and he show he's smooth and athletic. 

That's what he showed at the senior bowl, a few highlight plays, smooth, size and athleticism.  I don't think that was ever questioned.  It was mental errors or lapses in concentration on catches that made him not stand out.  At the combine it's more about the things he can excel at without the downside of looking bad (other than the gauntlet maybe).  

 
Wasn't the consensus out of the Senior Bowl week that Gandy Golden isn't very good?
I’d classify his reviews as mixed. Saw a lot of poor reviews, saw a few from reputable guys saying he had a good week. Majority of guys at the senior bowl don’t get a consensus opinion. I certainly believe him to be a “project”, I just don’t know where he’ll go in rookie drafts if he hits top three rounds with a high end speed score at his size.

 
I’d classify his reviews as mixed. Saw a lot of poor reviews, saw a few from reputable guys saying he had a good week. Majority of guys at the senior bowl don’t get a consensus opinion. I certainly believe him to be a “project”, I just don’t know where he’ll go in rookie drafts if he hits top three rounds with a high end speed score at his size.
Tough year to be a project WR

 
It sure it taking the TE a lot of time to do their runs. 

I assume we are waiting for them to finish so the WR can run.

 
Speaking of tests that may not matter: 

Hunter Bryant 23 reps

Jared Pinckney 23 reps

Brycen Hopkins 21 reps

Quintez Cephus 23 reps

AGG 22 reps

Joe Reed 21 reps

James Proche 20 reps 

Jalen Reagor 17 reps 

Laviska Shenault 17 reps

Chase Claypool 19 reps

KJ Hamler 15 reps

Harrison Bryant 13 reps

Ceedee Lamb 11 reps

Brandon Aiyuk 11 reps 

Isaiah Hodgins 9 reps
It likely is irrelevant, but Hamler putting up 15 reps at his size is very impressive. Also impressive that Aiyuk's pterodactyl arms can bend enough to do a bench press.

 
It sure it taking the TE a lot of time to do their runs. 

I assume we are waiting for them to finish so the WR can run.
WR's are going later in the evening.  I believe QB's are next.

A few big name WR's at 6PM EST, but they're in 3 groups if I'm reading the schedule correctly.  

 
WR's are going later in the evening.  I believe QB's are next.

A few big name WR's at 6PM EST, but they're in 3 groups if I'm reading the schedule correctly.  
I was kind of making a joke on the TE.

Kind of weird they are waiting until so late to do the drills, oh well. Thanks for the info.

 
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I’m not watching but a lot of TE times are in. Jared Pinkney just killed himself on my board, so that’s good. 

Okwuegbunam 4.53

Hunter Bryant 4.60

Joseph Deguara 4.60

Stephen Sullivan 4.63 

Cole Kmet 4.65

Brycen Hopkins 4.66

Harrison Bryant 4.72

Adam Trautman 4.75

Jared Pinkney 4.98

 
I’m not watching but a lot of TE times are in. Jared Pinkney just killed himself on my board, so that’s good. 

Okwuegbunam 4.53

Hunter Bryant 4.60

Joseph Deguara 4.60

Stephen Sullivan 4.63 

Cole Kmet 4.65

Brycen Hopkins 4.66

Harrison Bryant 4.72

Adam Trautman 4.75

Jared Pinkney 4.98
Far cry from last years TE class

 
The NFL.com times (not the unofficial ones marked with "u") are much slower for the TEs than even the bad times posted in here. Trautman with a 4.8. 

 
I just meant in general. It's a pretty pedestrian group this year. 
It does seem this way. None of these 2020 TE are being talked about as 1st round picks.

I just wonder if we may be missing some TE from the 2020 group who ends up being good for fantasy.

I recall Jordan Reed and some other guys were pretty under the radar in past years ended up surprising.

 
It does seem this way. None of these 2020 TE are being talked about as 1st round picks.

I just wonder if we may be missing some TE from the 2020 group who ends up being good for fantasy.

I recall Jordan Reed and some other guys were pretty under the radar in past years ended up surprising.
There is likely someone there with value. The rest of the workouts might expose a good athlete and draft capital will be the big key to guide us IMO. 

 
jefferson's 4.44 40 is a big deal, apparently? i'm w bruce arians, the tape don't lie. think he's a good WR, absolutely... but this being the "most important 40 time"? no.

 
I’m not watching but a lot of TE times are in. Jared Pinkney just killed himself on my board, so that’s good. 

Okwuegbunam 4.53

Hunter Bryant 4.60

Joseph Deguara 4.60

Stephen Sullivan 4.63 

Cole Kmet 4.65

Brycen Hopkins 4.66

Harrison Bryant 4.72

Adam Trautman 4.75

Jared Pinkney 4.98
Other than Hunter Bryant, that was about what I was expecting from those guys. I thought Bryant would be 4.7+, so 4.6 is a great time, and solidifies him as the TE1 in my eyes. 

Pinkney's lack of speed was very evident on his tape. I honestly though it was 50/50 he'd break 5.0. 

 
Looking at the scatterplots, the takeaway is combine measurements don't matter so much, or at all. There doesn't appear to be any correlation at all. Not sure how they arrived at their lines of best fit.
The only thing that matters in isolation is... draft position.

If you don't have that, you have to account for everything -- you can't look at any one thing and learn very much.

 
Other than Hunter Bryant, that was about what I was expecting from those guys. I thought Bryant would be 4.7+, so 4.6 is a great time, and solidifies him as the TE1 in my eyes. 

Pinkney's lack of speed was very evident on his tape. I honestly though it was 50/50 he'd break 5.0. 
It’s too bad. I really liked him. I’m a bit shocked. He was recruited as a WR.

 
Other than Hunter Bryant, that was about what I was expecting from those guys. I thought Bryant would be 4.7+, so 4.6 is a great time, and solidifies him as the TE1 in my eyes. 

Pinkney's lack of speed was very evident on his tape. I honestly though it was 50/50 he'd break 5.0. 
Are we not considering Chase Claypool a TE? He moved up draft boards today.

 
Are we not considering Chase Claypool a TE? He moved up draft boards today.
I think he comes with an asterisk. A lot of people get impatient with TE’s already (I’ve seen OJ Howard sold for nothing, Ian Thomas dropped during the year, Njoku sold for nothing).  He needs to put on 7-10 lbs and learn how to play inline. 

 
Are we not considering Chase Claypool a TE? He moved up draft boards today.
Not yet anyway, although I don't think he's in Bryant's league anyway, considering he'd be switching postions.

It’s funny I moved him up on weigh ins to WR4. I doubt his workout will move the needle unless Shenault, Lamb or Reagor bombs.
Jefferson needed that 40 time, after measuring in almost 2 inches shorter than expected. I don't think he's near any of those guys yet, but I had him around WR10 or so, so I'm likely always going to be lower than most on him. Not a knock on him, I think this is a historic WR class, best since at least 2014.

 
Hurts with a 4.54. Wherever I can get him this year.
That was faster than I was expecting, but his questions were arm strength, pocket presence, and reading defenses if the 1st read was covered. We already knew he was the most mobile QB. I wouldn't give him double credit for it.

 
That was faster than I was expecting, but his questions were arm strength, pocket presence, and reading defenses if the 1st read was covered. We already knew he was the most mobile QB. I wouldn't give him double credit for it.
Don’t worry, I’m not. He’s been my QB3 since the beginning. Youngest breakout age, great efficiency, success in two systems... I’m not shy on Hurts at all.

 
Peoples-Jones, Reagor and Ruggs all got in top 5 so far for both vertical and broad jumps. Claypool added a 40" vertical to his 40 times.

 

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