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Government Response To The Coronavirus (6 Viewers)

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RnR said:
Except I said... right there in my post... "We should social distance everywhere else." You can take social distance measures and still attempt to restart an economy.
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This is really disturbing.  I don't think the disease specialists and epidemiologists share your position that you can be in two places at the same time.

 
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RnR said:
You're so blinded by your distaste that you think it'd be the first presidential thing he's done in 3+ years. Enough said.
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I do have distaste, definitely. Partisanship in this presidency has been beneath American values. It's not good for our society to be squared off in this way. That said, there is zero chance I would have criticized Trump for hitting this threat head on with the same passion he attacks other foes. 

 
RnR said:
You guys have your heads in the sand if you think our economy can withstand these measures into the summer. Like it or not, there will have to be some sort of balancing act required for the economy vs. the disease. The clear hate for Trump in here (this thread is like an echo chamber) seems to drown out the fact that he's not wrong about that.

It's a horrible situation.

He may not be handling it to many of your standards in the public eye (if we're being honest, few of you would credit him for it if he was), but it's a huge problem that he's going to have to delicately handle in the coming weeks.
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And you have your head in the sand if you think he is capable of handling anything delicately. Bombast and bluster. That's all he is at this point.

 
Go impale yourself with this headline CNN...

Arizona man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine to treat coronavirus

Narrator: The man took chloroquine PHOSPHATE and died. To be more specific, the man took fish aquarium cleaner.

He did not take chloroquine which is among the drugs touted in daily briefings by the President. But that didn't stop CNN from trying to attach the President's mentions of chloroquine, hydroxycholroquine, and other time tested drugs to this man's death.

Chloroquine has been touted by President Donald Trump as a possible treatment for Covid-19, but it's also "an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks," Banner Health said in a statement. Chloroquine is approved by the Food and Drug Administration for treating malaria, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. But the FDA has not approved it to treat the coronavirus.
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Yes chloroquine is an ingredient (among others) in a product used to clean fish tanks, but chloroquine on it's own does not do the trick. And they wonder why the number of people who trust them as a news source dwindles by the day.

It's like saying H20 killed someone because it's "in" hydrogen peroxide.

 
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BigJim® said:
I do have distaste, definitely. Partisanship in this presidency has been beneath American values. It's not good for our society to be squared off in this way. That said, there is zero chance I would have criticized Trump for hitting this threat head on with the same passion he attacks other foes. 
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That's fair. Part of the reason I'm taking on the masses in this thread is that I hate to see such divisive talk in what really needs to be a rallying moment for the country. Yeah, Trump is a bad presidential draw for the pandemic. I get that. I think in a moment of privacy even he'd probably admit that. But we have what we have and here we are. We're all worried.

Just scroll back and look at the insults hurled my way in the last page of the thread. Most of these guys barely know my political leanings.

 
Perhaps we should go back to burning witches like we’ve done during previous plagues in history. It probably didn’t help anything but people felt better. 

 
Mr Anonymous said:
Go impale yourself with this headline CNN...

Arizona man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine to treat coronavirus

Narrator: The man took chloroquine PHOSPHATE and died. To be more specific, the man took fish aquarium cleaner.

He did not take chloroquine which is among the drugs touted in daily briefings by the President. But that didn't stop CNN from trying to attach the President's mentions of chloroquine, hydroxycholroquine, and other time tested drugs to this man's death.

Yes chloroquine is an ingredient (among others) in a product used to clean fish tanks, but chloroquine on it's own does not do the trick. And they wonder why the number of people who trust them as a news source dwindles by the day.

It's like saying H20 killed someone because it's in hydrogen peroxide.
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Umm why do you think the man took it?

 
Mr Anonymous said:
Are you asking why a man saw the label on his fish tank cleaner which listed "chloroquine phosphate" as an ingredient and then ingested it?

I'd say it was because he's an idiot.
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True. But why that ingredient?

See now why pushing something as Trump has is not wise?

Also..this guy was an idiot and probably would have found a different way of doing something dumb...doesn't change the carelessness that Trumps words on these drugs have been.  Nor does ot make the CnN story or headline wrong at all

 
Mr Anonymous said:
Are you asking why a man saw the label on his fish tank cleaner which listed "chloroquine phosphate" as an ingredient and then ingested it?

I'd say it was because he's an idiot.
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An idiot listening who typically listened to whom?

Assuredly not doctors and scientist. And he didn't get this idea all by himself.

 
Mr Anonymous said:
Are you asking why a man saw the label on his fish tank cleaner which listed "chloroquine phosphate" as an ingredient and then ingested it?

I'd say it was because he's an idiot.
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I don't mean to speak ill of the dead, but it was idiotic and inspired by Trump's unfounded, misplaced claims.  Overdose with the actual drug is lethal, but it would take a modicum of nuance and restraint for Trump to introduce a balanced perspective on what is largely unknown about COVID19 response to this class of drugs.

 
sho nuff said:
True. But why that ingredient?

See now why pushing something as Trump has is not wise?

Also..this guy was an idiot and probably would have found a different way of doing something dumb...doesn't change the carelessness that Trumps words on these drugs have been.  Nor does ot make the CnN story or headline wrong at all
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Trump wasn't up there touting chloroquine PHOSPHATE. Anyone trying to pin the death of a man drinking aquarium cleaner on Trump aloud should really consider what their credibility will be going forward.

I see you've dismissed that self fear.

 
RnR said:
We should totally focus on New York and other hot spots. I agree with that. Fight it like hell for as long as it takes. We should social distance everywhere else. You're borderline delusional if you think we can send relatively healthy areas of the country into quarantine status for months and rise out of it with anything other than complete and utter financial ruin.
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Nobody is saying that. Don’t put words out there I didn’t say. The problem is trump is already talking about this while having no idea where we even are. 

 
Mr Anonymous said:
Trump wasn't up there touting chloroquine PHOSPHATE. Anyone trying to pin the death of a man drinking aquarium cleaner on Trump aloud should really consider what their credibility will be going forward.

I see you've dismissed that self fear.
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Yeah...you expect someone dumb enough to do that would differentiate between his fish tank stuff and what Trump was saying?
Pin?  Nah, but his rhetoric likely played a part to give the guy the idea.

 
BigSteelThrill said:
An idiot listening who typically listened to whom?

Assuredly not doctors and scientist. And he didn't get this idea all by himself.
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cobalt_27 said:
I don't mean to speak ill of the dead, but it was idiotic and inspired by Trump's unfounded, misplaced claims.  Overdose with the actual drug is lethal, but it would take a modicum of nuance and restraint for Trump to introduce a balanced perspective on what is largely unknown about COVID19 response to this class of drugs.
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🤣

Get outta here with this nonsense. If Trump told everyone to drink more water, are you also blaming him for the death of someone who drinks hydrogen peroxide because it's got water+ in it?

 
RnR said:
That's fair. Part of the reason I'm taking on the masses in this thread is that I hate to see such divisive talk in what really needs to be a rallying moment for the country. Yeah, Trump is a bad presidential draw for the pandemic. I get that. I think in a moment of privacy even he'd probably admit that. But we have what we have and here we are. We're all worried.

Just scroll back and look at the insults hurled my way in the last page of the thread. Most of these guys barely know my political leanings.
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I get what you're saying. I'll speak only for myself: I don't want Trump to fail here. This isn't a game to me. I desperately want him to succeed, because him failing means a lot of people will die, possibly even some who are close to me. I would love it if this became a rallying moment for the country.

But I also can't ignore reality. He has screwed this up from the beginning. He is continuing to screw up, and may be on the verge of making the situation exponentially worse for no discernible reason. And he shows absolutely no sign of recognizing the scope of the problem. He views it as a PR crisis, a threat to the stock market, and above all, a threat to his re-election. He seems far more interested in being seen as having solved the problem than in actually solving it.

And as I said in my previous post, I'm terrified. A lot of people have been saying in the past week that we could end up like Italy. I'm scared we could end up way worse than Italy. And every day, every time I hear from Trump, I get even more scared.

 
zftcg said:
I get what you're saying. I'll speak only for myself: I don't want Trump to fail here. This isn't a game to me. I desperately want him to succeed, because him failing means a lot of people will die, possibly even some who are close to me. I would love it if this became a rallying moment for the country.

But I also can't ignore reality. He has screwed this up from the beginning. He is continuing to screw up, and may be on the verge of making the situation exponentially worse for no discernible reason. And he shows absolutely no sign of recognizing the scope of the problem. He views it as a PR crisis, a threat to the stock market, and above all, a threat to his re-election. He seems far more interested in being seen as having solved the problem than in actually solving it.

And as I said in my previous post, I'm terrified. A lot of people have been saying in the past week that we could end up like Italy. I'm scared we could end up way worse than Italy. And every day, every time I hear from Trump, I get even more scared.
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Well stated.  This is exactly my fear.  

 
Capella said:
Nobody is saying that. Don’t put words out there I didn’t say. The problem is trump is already talking about this while having no idea where we even are. 
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So what are we arguing about then, Cappy? You said what I said was "insane" and then threw a number of future dead New Yorkers at me like it was some sort of trump (the lowercase verison) card. I have family in NYC, so it's very real to me. I care about very much about helping everyone in that situation.

Trump is talking about it because the overwhelming majority of the country is at home worried about it. If you and yours are in a spot to where sitting this out through the summer couldn't ruin your family's financial outlook for decades to come, count that blessing my man.

I'm just telling you there are people in my community that are all in on flattening this curve in solidarity for their elderly neighbors and our country. The least we can do is acknowledge that there needs to be a plan to let them get back to work as soon as humanly possible. I don't think anyone thinks that's tomorrow or even next week.

 
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cobalt_27 said:
At some point, folks just have to...die?  
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Well, yeah. Everything we do in our daily lives comes with some sort of you could die risk. The rates associated with this current problem are just unprecedentedly high - at least in our lifetimes anyway. So unique measures must be taken to get it under control. Once it is then it will have it's own unique inherent risk, just like anything else that will kill us. 

 
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Denver and Boulder both  announced lock downs starting in the next few days. Colorado will probably be on lockdown soon.

 
Mr Anonymous said:
Go impale yourself with this headline CNN...

Arizona man dies after self-medicating with chloroquine to treat coronavirus

Narrator: The man took chloroquine PHOSPHATE and died. To be more specific, the man took fish aquarium cleaner.

He did not take chloroquine which is among the drugs touted in daily briefings by the President. But that didn't stop CNN from trying to attach the President's mentions of chloroquine, hydroxycholroquine, and other time tested drugs to this man's death.

Yes chloroquine is an ingredient (among others) in a product used to clean fish tanks, but chloroquine on it's own does not do the trick. And they wonder why the number of people who trust them as a news source dwindles by the day.

It's like saying H20 killed someone because it's "in" hydrogen peroxide.
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Go ahead and google "chloroquine phosphate" and see what you get related to medicine. I'll help you: WebMD for Chloroquine 

Chloroquine Phosphate

COMMON BRAND(S): Aralen

GENERIC NAME(S): Chloroquine Phosphate
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He did take chloroquine, but he likely took far too much of it. It isn't a "fish aquarium cleaner" like bleach or something, it is used to kill things like algae in the water, and can be prescribed by a veterinarian as a treatment.

Here's a NYPost article from 4 days ago that's suitably tragic, given these circumstances: Sales of fish tank additive skyrocket after studies say it could treat coronavirus

 
zftcg said:
I get what you're saying. I'll speak only for myself: I don't want Trump to fail here. This isn't a game to me. I desperately want him to succeed, because him failing means a lot of people will die, possibly even some who are close to me. I would love it if this became a rallying moment for the country.

But I also can't ignore reality. He has screwed this up from the beginning. He is continuing to screw up, and may be on the verge of making the situation exponentially worse for no discernible reason. And he shows absolutely no sign of recognizing the scope of the problem. He views it as a PR crisis, a threat to the stock market, and above all, a threat to his re-election. He seems far more interested in being seen as having solved the problem than in actually solving it.

And as I said in my previous post, I'm terrified. A lot of people have been saying in the past week that we could end up like Italy. I'm scared we could end up way worse than Italy. And every day, every time I hear from Trump, I get even more scared.
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Well said. 

 
RnR said:
So what are we arguing about then, Cappy? You said what I said was "insane" and then threw a number of future dead New Yorkers at me like it was some sort of trump (the lowercase verison) card. I have family in NYC. Those are real people that I care about very much.

Trump is talking about it because the overwhelming majority of the country is at home worried about it. If you and yours are in a spot to where sitting this out through the summer couldn't ruin your family's financial outlook for decades to come, count that blessing my man.

I'm just telling you there are people in my community that are all in on flattening this curve in solidarity for their elderly neighbors and our country. The least we can do is acknowledge that there needs to be a plan to let them get back to work as soon as humanly possible. I don't think anyone thinks that's tomorrow or even next week.
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Pay money to the people like you would the corporations.  Take on the debt for the citizens.

4.3 trillion would pay $50,000 worth of bills to every family (ballpark).  That will go a long ####### way.

 
mcintyre1 said:
Go ahead and google "chloroquine phosphate" and see what you get related to medicine. I'll help you: WebMD for Chloroquine 

He did take chloroquine, but he likely took far too much of it. It isn't a "fish aquarium cleaner" like bleach or something, it is used to kill things like algae in the water, and can be prescribed by a veterinarian as a treatment.

Here's a NYPost article from 4 days ago that's suitably tragic, given these circumstances: Sales of fish tank additive skyrocket after studies say it could treat coronavirus
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Hear me out...maybe POTUS should leave the drug recommendations to actual doctors?

 
zftcg said:
I get what you're saying. I'll speak only for myself: I don't want Trump to fail here. This isn't a game to me. I desperately want him to succeed, because him failing means a lot of people will die, possibly even some who are close to me. I would love it if this became a rallying moment for the country.

But I also can't ignore reality. He has screwed this up from the beginning. He is continuing to screw up, and may be on the verge of making the situation exponentially worse for no discernible reason. And he shows absolutely no sign of recognizing the scope of the problem. He views it as a PR crisis, a threat to the stock market, and above all, a threat to his re-election. He seems far more interested in being seen as having solved the problem than in actually solving it.

And as I said in my previous post, I'm terrified. A lot of people have been saying in the past week that we could end up like Italy. I'm scared we could end up way worse than Italy. And every day, every time I hear from Trump, I get even more scared.
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Thanks. I can totally understand this perspective. Sincerely hope there's a way we can alleviate that terrified feeling soon.

 
mcintyre1 said:
Go ahead and google "chloroquine phosphate" and see what you get related to medicine. I'll help you: WebMD for Chloroquine 

He did take chloroquine, but he likely took far too much of it. It isn't a "fish aquarium cleaner" like bleach or something, it is used to kill things like algae in the water, and can be prescribed by a veterinarian as a treatment.

Here's a NYPost article from 4 days ago that's suitably tragic, given these circumstances: Sales of fish tank additive skyrocket after studies say it could treat coronavirus
Click to expand...
oh SNAP!

 
BigSteelThrill said:
Pay money to the people like you would the corporations.  Take on the debt for the citizens.

4.3 trillion would pay $50,000 worth of bills to every family (ballpark).  That will go a long ####### way.
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And the jobs they don't get to go back to in the end? How long do we subsidize that?

(I'm not being a smartass with that response, by the way)

 
RnR said:
So what are we arguing about then, Cappy? You said what I said was "insane" and then threw a number of future dead New Yorkers at me like it was some sort of trump (the lowercase verison) card. I have family in NYC, so it's very real to me. I care about very much about helping everyone in that situation.

Trump is talking about it because the overwhelming majority of the country is at home worried about it. If you and yours are in a spot to where sitting this out through the summer couldn't ruin your family's financial outlook for decades to come, count that blessing my man.

I'm just telling you there are people in my community that are all in on flattening this curve in solidarity for their elderly neighbors and our country. The least we can do is acknowledge that there needs to be a plan to let them get back to work as soon as humanly possible. I don't think anyone thinks that's tomorrow or even next week.
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My point is this isn’t the time for the president to be leading on to his supporters that we can be back to normal in 10 days because we have to save the Economy. In 10 days this is going to be a disaster of unbelievable proportions. If he said hey let’s see what’s going on in May, then fine. That’s not realistic either but ok. People need an endgame, I get it. Talking about things like that happening in the next few weeks is absurd. 

 
Capella said:
My point is this isn’t the time for the president to be leading on to his supporters that we can be back to normal in 10 days because we have to save the Economy. In 10 days this is going to be a disaster of unbelievable proportions. If he said hey let’s see what’s going on in May, then fine. That’s not realistic either but ok. People need an endgame, I get it. Talking about things like that happening in the next few weeks is absurd. 
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I hope like hell you're wrong about that. But I get where you're coming from. I watched all 2 hours of that press conference today. There was not a timeline given on lifting the current presidential guidance. Not once. He has consistently said "let's get to Day 14 of the 15 day mandate and see where we're at." And he made it very clear that hot spots are going to be in a rough way for a long time. He spread some optimism that not every state in the union faces that same fate. Which seems like a reasonable assertion. And one that has to be made to keep people sitting inside while there are 40 cases and no deaths in their state or whatever.

If people are drawing conclusions that it means we're all going back to work like nothing happened, I'd say that's on them.

 
RnR said:
I hope like hell you're wrong about that. But I get where you're coming from. I watched all 2 hours of that press conference today. There was not a timeline given on lifting the current presidential guidance. Not once. He has consistently said "let's get to Day 14 of the 15 day mandate and see where we're at." And he made it very clear that hot spots are going to be in a rough way for a long time. He spread some optimism that not every state in the union faces that same fate. Which seems like a reasonable assertion. And one that has to be made to keep people sitting inside while there are 40 cases and no deaths in their state or whatever.

If people are drawing conclusions that it means we're all going back to work like nothing happened, I'd say that's on them.
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I hope so badly I am wrong. I want to be wrong so so bad. 

 
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RnR said:
Thanks. I can totally understand this perspective. Sincerely hope there's a way we can alleviate that terrified feeling soon.
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Thanks. And I do agree with you that we need a long-term plan as to how we restart the economy after this. I'm fortunate that my job appears to be safe, though of course anything is possible in this new reality. But I hear some of the stories and they're heartbreaking. Ran into a guy in my neighborhood the other day who owns a micro-brewery. His two biggest revenue streams (selling kegs to bars and running his own brewpub) are dead. They can the beer, but not for retail stores, so his only revenue stream is selling them drive-through out of the pub. He said he's doing about 10% of his normal volume there, and that was already his smallest revenue stream. (The pub is about an hour north of where we live, but we may take the kids for a drive this weekend, and if so, I'm going to try to stop by and pick up a case or two. I want to support him, and it's also good beer.)

My worry is that reopening the economy at the wrong time, and for the wrong reasons, could kill a lot of people while making the long-term economic problem even worse. But like you said, he hasn't made that decision yet. I hope he is just blowing off steam, and that he ultimately listens to the public health experts.

 
The only thing this administration has done well in handling the pandemic was closing off travel with China. That was not racist. Consistently referring to covid19 as the "Chinese Virus" and "Kung Flu" is racist.

The mistakes? Turning down the WHO testing kits. Rolling out testing kits that were incomplete. Downplaying the virus and using the words "Democratic hoax" at rallies. Saying there was a vaccine, that the numbers would go down, not up, listening to Jared instead of scientists. Putting us months behind in an effective response. Having no strategy.

This was after disbanding the pandemic response unit and defunding the CDC.

So we got a group leading us who can't tell the truth even when it doesn't matter, that puts self-preservation and profits over doing what's right, and is woefully ill-prepared for what could be the biggest problem facing the world in 100 years. We're in quite a pickle.

 
Nipsey said:
If you told him, "hey Donald we need you to fill the next 2 hours speaking to this crowd about stereo equipment", he could do it. None of what he'd say would make sense but he could fill the 2 hours with ease. "They've asked me to speak about stereo equipment and stereo equipment is very important. We all like the stereo things and other stuff. It makes things like music... you ever heard of that? I think you have. We all know what music is. Stereos are very important in getting us music. And then you have the speakers, the wires, AM, FM. I prefer FM, people think I would like AM but I really like FM. Some people prefer AM and we like those people too. You have the plugs. Electricity. You have to plug it in or it doesn't work. There would be no music if you didn't plug it in so the plug is very important..."
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I had a talk with the corona virus the other day. I said look, corona virus, that’s enough. It’s enough! You don’t have to do this. It was unbelievable, you wouldn’t believe it. And this virus, this big scary virus that everybody is afraid of, the biggest people, everybody’s afraid. This virus said mister president I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to ruin your economy, the very best in history, many say that. They all say it. And the Corona virus said I didn’t mean to do this.  And I believe him. I believe him. So we have that. 

 
Capella said:
I had a talk with the corona virus the other day. I said look, corona virus, that’s enough. It’s enough! You don’t have to do this. It was unbelievable, you wouldn’t believe it. And this virus, this big scary virus that everybody is afraid of, the biggest people, everybody’s afraid. This virus said mister president I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to ruin your economy, the very best in history, many say that. They all say it. And the Corona virus said I didn’t mean to do this.  And I believe him. I believe him. So we have that. 
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So close, but in this story Trump definitely would have said that the virus called him “sir”.

 
Man In The Box said:
I’m relatively unknown here I think. I’m not a banned alias, I promise. I’ve probably posted more politics here in the past week than my previous 12 years, because this is a pivotal time and well, I have some free time until I go back to work on Wednesday.

 I’m not a Trump guy, but I have given him some credit, especially since he started taking this crisis seriously. I fully admit, this is a ridiculously tough spot for him, it would be for any president. These past few days/weeks have seemed like months or a year since our world has been flipped on its ear. But, in reality it’s only been a short time. Getting this bill done, and getting it done correctly is going to be pivotal. It’s the big gun they’re going to fire at the real economy, not the stock market. Put the money in the hands of those who need it. That should be his focus tonight. I don’t have a lot of hope that it’s going to turn out like that, but I’d love to wake up to some good news tomorrow. I’m sure we all would. Put all the other stuff that’s sitting on McConnell’s desk aside and get it done. We can all at least agree on this I hope. 
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We can agree on this and that AiC is an all time great. 

 
RnR said:
And we tell my friends who made their life's work building their local small businesses from the ground up that...?
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We tell your friend it sucks, and hopefully his business comes back strong.  It seems to be clear the best/only way of dealing with this is isolation.  Lazy attempts to deal with this are likely to lead to continued exposure, and an even worse economy.  I hope I'm wrong(heads up, I usually am), but the attempt to help the economy is probably going to be much worse for the economy in the long run.  The band aid needs to be ripped off.  Shut it down, deal with it, come out and get back to normal as soon as possible.  

Full disclosure, I work in a hotel and am getting killed missing my peak earning season, maybe next summer too.  It's a sacrifice most of us have to deal with.    

 
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