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Government Response To The Coronavirus (11 Viewers)

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Arguing about the death rate is a meaningless argument.

The issue has never been about the mortality rate of the virus - the issue has always been about overwhelming the healthcare system to the point that it would artificially inflate the mortality rate due to a lack of resources to combat the virus.

A lower mortality rate is a direct result of limiting the number of people who get infected at the same time.

So, if we get a low mortality rate - then we did a good job in flattening the curve (which extends the apex), to the point where most facilities were not overwhelmed.  It will of course also lead to arguments from ill-informed people, that the preventative measures were not necessary.  Fortunately, everyone here knows better...

 
Treating symptoms is not a cure.
 I have asthma..my rescue inhaler is not a cure.  It will treat symptoms and aid if I have an attack or lower my mild symptoms like wheezing.

It does not cure my asthma.

 
Tom Skerritt said:
Do you believe that there is a cure for the flu?
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Again, provide your definition.  Here is the most precise comprehensive definition I could find that supports your position:

"A cure is a substance or procedure that ends a medical condition, such as a medication, a surgical operation, a change in lifestyle or even a philosophical mindset that helps end a person's sufferings; or the state of being healed, or cured."

Even with that definition, if a treatment helps the patient to a state of being healed it is a cure.  I fail to see how you distinguish between a successful treatment and a cure. 

 
zDragon said:
Instead of bashing Trump can you give our opinion on the comment?  

What is your opinion on how Pelosi handled it? 
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Nobody provided the comment from Pelosi...so instead I opined on the strangeness of thinking she had said something worse.  Ive yet to see her saying anything worse than the rhetoric he has used during this pandemic.

 
zDragon said:
A cure implies there is a certainty that a medical condition will not be present after a medical intervention. 
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Your definition provided did not say that and specifically included treatments.  

I am not completely disagreeing with people and how the word cure is often used, but I can not find a definition which supports that level of specificity.  

 
zDragon said:
The published numbers are up to 3:00am to account for delayed viewing.  Are you talking about live+3 that's the only one I recall they have like 5 or more.

If you are can you post a link to the numbers for the two shows in question?
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I think Bachelor was #1.  Pandemic Presser was #2.  Big Bang Theory was #3 but to be fair it was a rerun.

 
zDragon said:
Not a trump fan and I doubt that very seriously. Well at least from the ones I've seen posting here. I doubt any of us would do any better. 

A lot more going on than typing a thought and hitting Submit. 
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Yeah.  We didn't give proper thought to our TV ratings.

 
jon_mx said:
Your definition provided did not say that and specifically included treatments.  

I am not completely disagreeing with people and how the word cure is often used, but I can not find a definition which supports that level of specificity.  
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Medical intervention would include treatments. 

 
Snotbubbles said:
The Commish said:
Who told you this?  Last I heard we had done approx 370K tests.  That is about 0.001125 of the population.  Compare that to a country like SK that has tested approx 360K.  That's about 0.007059 of their population.  This should be the way this is viewed by those of you on the "we're going to have more cases and deaths because of our population size" side of things.  Look at it through that lens completely or don't.
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370K is more than 360K.  Also, Abbott Laboratories just got FDA approval for a test that you get the results almost immediately.  The current testing takes 3 days.  They are going to be distributing next week adding 50K a day test capacity. 
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It's like you only read part of my post :mellow:  

At the point of this post, you were severely misinformed of status.  I am hearing we are about to ramp up testing though.  Three months in and things exploding.  Still have a friend, now over 10 days waiting for her results.

 
The Commish said:
It's like you only read part of my post :mellow:  

At the point of this post, you were severely misinformed of status.  I am hearing we are about to ramp up testing though.  Three months in and things exploding.  Still have a friend, now over 10 days waiting for her results.
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Yes, we can confirm you had the coronavirus last month.

 
jon_mx said:
An interesting article.  From the article: 

Iceland has a population of 364,000 people and currently are reporting 1020 cases of Coronavirus or about 0.3 percent.  I doubt if that 6.3 percent number is really based on a random sampling of the population, but assuming that it is somewhat a random sample, that would indicate the reported number is too low by a factor of 20.  Regardless, it shows the numbers being reported as mortality rate as significantly too high.  
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It wasnt quite a random sample, they asked for volunteers. But it's still pretty close. 

 
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McBokonon said:
Hey man, if Trump wants to go out there and say there’s an imminent cure and name-drop specific medications despite any training or education on the subject, I say stop being such a wet blanket and let him give people hope. Literally nothing bad can happen as a result.
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Trump's repeated promotion of chloroquine has led to a shortage of the drug, which may prevent people who are already sick from getting their medication.

Also, there's the guy who died after consuming the wrong kind of chloroquine. (Not that it's Trump's responsibility to educate the guy on the different types of chloroquine, but his wife specifically said that they decided to try it after seeing Trump's press conference.)

 
cloppbeast said:
The Commish said:
There's nothing to get over.  We don't get to compare reactions of the "sides" in the past to this guy for that very reason.  It's a weird hill to die on, but many are trying to.
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So you married a woman who doesn't clean the house or put out and you eat hot pockets for dinner because she won't cook. Are you going to constantly complain to your friends about it? I promise they don't want to hear it.

This is a government's response to corona virus thread, not a bash Trump thread. I guess I could say the same about every thread in the politics forum. 
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As it pertains to this back and forth, I responded to your words :shrug:  

I said everything about this topic I wanted to in the post prior

 
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[scooter] said:
Trump's repeated promotion of chloroquine has led to a shortage of the drug, which may prevent people who are already sick from getting their medication.

Also, there's the guy who died after consuming the wrong kind of chloroquine. (Not that it's Trump's responsibility to educate the guy on the different types of chloroquine, but his wife specifically said that they decided to try it after seeing Trump's press conference.)
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Look man, these are just dumb people. You can't blame Trump just because he's the President of the most powerful nation on the planet and has a gigantic, outsized amount of influence and when he says things, those things get amplified to an immeasurable degree and then people hear those things and subsequently make terrible decisions based on the things the President said and maybe die. That's just bananas. 

 
McBokonon said:
[scooter] said:
Trump's repeated promotion of chloroquine has led to a shortage of the drug, which may prevent people who are already sick from getting their medication.

Also, there's the guy who died after consuming the wrong kind of chloroquine. (Not that it's Trump's responsibility to educate the guy on the different types of chloroquine, but his wife specifically said that they decided to try it after seeing Trump's press conference.)
Click to expand...
Look man, these are just dumb people. You can't blame Trump just because he's the President of the most powerful nation on the planet and has a gigantic, outsized amount of influence and when he says things, those things get amplified to an immeasurable degree and then people hear those things and subsequently make terrible decisions based on the things the President said and maybe die. That's just bananas. 
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You said, "literally nothing bad can happen".

I then pointed out two bad things that happened.

If you didn't mean to use the word "literally", then I apologize for taking your words too literally.

 
cloppbeast said:
Perspectives on the Pandemic by John Ioannidis of Stanford University 
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It's interesting to me this was posted by CDC. - Fwiw, I watched a fair bit of this. I'm not sure what this is being used to claim, if anything, but at 52:20 while Dr I says that yes isolating high risk persons while letting the rest of the populace continue about their economic lives makes sense in principle it would not be appropriate without the data to support that approach. Earlier on he says he is only a scientist, not a politician, and so using that he sidestepped a question about whether Trump had acted appropriately, he refused to answer it, and then later he refuses to explain how society might be mobilized, if the data did support it, to isolate the most vulnerable members of society - and you can imagine what that would look like - the poorest, most destitute, the infirm, the handicapped, the elderly. I mean imagine that being applied. 

Just a general observation but modern solutions often involve two sides, the data side and the business side, and it's not uncommon that these two sides don't talk. Clearly we need leadership to link these two aspects now in this critical time. One view acting without the other would be disastrous. 

 
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cloppbeast said:
It wasnt quite a random sample, they asked for volunteers. But it's still pretty close. 
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Yeah I would not call it random, just a much better representative sample than most data sets.  Unfortunately people here do not seem to want to discuss it because looking at all facts so not fit the narrative. 

 
McBokonon said:
Look man, these are just dumb people. You can't blame Trump just because he's the President of the most powerful nation on the planet and has a gigantic, outsized amount of influence and when he says things, those things get amplified to an immeasurable degree and then people hear those things and subsequently make terrible decisions based on the things the President said and maybe die. That's just bananas. 
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If the media didn't report what he says none of this would happen.

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
If the media didn't report what he says none of this would happen.
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Exactly! Trump is up there riffing like he's doing press conference jazz and the media is going to just report his jazz verbatim? That's bonkers and everything bad that happens is their fault. 

 
Open Letter from Professor Sucharit Bhakdi to German Chancellor Dr. Angela Merkel

"A number of coronaviruses have been circulating for a long time – largely unnoticed by the media. [2] If it should turn out that the COVID-19 virus should not be ascribed a significantly higher risk potential than the already circulating corona viruses, all countermeasures would obviously become unnecessary.

The internationally recognized International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents will soon publish a paper that addresses exactly this question. Preliminary results of the study can already be seen today and lead to the conclusion that the new virus is NOT different from traditional corona viruses in terms of dangerousness. The authors express this in the title of their paper „SARS-CoV-2: Fear versus Data“. [3]"

 
Trump saying this mask manufacturer is in agreement with him that the number of masks going to NY don't make sense, that there are way too many going there.

Would like to see that followed up on.

 
The General said:
Trump saying this mask manufacturer is in agreement with him that the number of masks going to NY don't make sense, that there are way too many going there.

Would like to see that followed up on.
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Didn’t he basically leave it up to states to fend for themselves in procuring such items?  

 
Sammy3469 said:
Did he just accuse NYC health care provides of stealing masks wholesale?
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Yep, he just can't understand how they used to use 10k mask  and now they use 30x that much.  Hmmm, I wonder how many more patients they are seeing compared to the past?  I wonder if it's about 30x??

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
It's interesting to me this was posted by CDC. - Fwiw, I watched a fair bit of this. I'm not sure what this is being used to claim, if anything, but at 52:20 while Dr I says that yes isolating high risk persons while letting the rest of the populace continue about their economic lives makes sense in principle it would not be appropriate without the data to support that approach. Earlier on he says he is only a scientist, not a politician, and so using that he sidestepped a question about whether Trump had acted appropriately, he refused to answer it, and then later he refuses to explain how society might be mobilized, if the data did support it, to isolate the most vulnerable members of society - and you can imagine what that would look like - the poorest, most destitute, the infirm, the handicapped, the elderly. I mean imagine that being applied. 

Just a general observation but modern solutions often involve two sides, the data side and the business side, and it's not uncommon that these two sides don't talk. Clearly we need leadership to link these two aspects now in this critical time. One view acting without the other would be disastrous. 
Click to expand...
The way I understood him, he's in favor of all the lock down stuff based on worst case scenarios. He agrees there is substantial risk with covid19. While locked down, in the meantime do research. What we've found from that research leads us the believe we may have overestimated the danger here in our first projections. So do more research.

I agree leadership should be looking into it and balancing all this stuff with data and the real world, but we live in a modern democracy where politicians react to what the populace demands.They aren't demanding anything like what John Ioannidis is talking about. 

 
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jon_mx said:
Yeah I would not call it random, just a much better representative sample than most data sets.  Unfortunately people here do not seem to want to discuss it because looking at all facts so not fit the narrative. 
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I hope you don’t mean this. You had some thoughtful replies, and I’m sure we share an understanding on how serious this is and how it affects all of us and the future of the country we love.

 
zDragon said:
Not a trump fan and I doubt that very seriously. Well at least from the ones I've seen posting here. I doubt any of us would do any better. 

A lot more going on than typing a thought and hitting Submit. 
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What has he done in this crisis that would give you any more confidence than a lay person?  

 
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