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Government Response To The Coronavirus


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13 hours ago, CR69 said:

Pretty quiet in here from the right side. Did we just need Trump to promote disinfectant injections to finally make people see that he's criminally incompetent?

No I have heard things from his supporters that you are putting words in his mouth, another was he said the light would disinfect, another he turned to the doctors and was asking not suggesting. Of course that doesn’t match with his I was being sarcastic comment. 

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This is going to be a one off post because I don't want to get trolled or banned but if I were American, the context of Canada would be the biggest damning fact of how things have been handled in the

Australia has had months of little to no community spread and even then it was confined to one state. By and large Australians are running around doing the right thing, sport was and is still hap

I am confident we are going to hit >750K deaths.  I think it might be a million.  I don't post a ton but I'm an ER doc in a big city. This is by far the worse I've seen since the pandemic star

2 hours ago, lazyike said:

No I have heard things from his supporters that you are putting words in his mouth, another was he said the light would disinfect, another he turned to the doctors and was asking not suggesting. Of course that doesn’t match with his I was being sarcastic comment. 

“He was being sarcastic! He didn’t actually mean it! He was just asking! He misunderstood the question! He was trolling the media! He is being taken out ot context! He was actually speaking in Spanish! IT WASN’T HIS FAULT!!!!!

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58 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

No it isnt.

They mislead you from the get go..

WASHINGTON — Trump White House appointees pressured government health officials to make an unproven malaria drug available to the public to treat the disease caused by the new coronavirus without a doctor’s supervision, according to internal emails published by Vanity Fair on Friday. 

The pressure tactics caused panic and pushback from scientists and doctors at several federal health agencies, who refused to suspend drug regulations in order to distribute the potentially dangerous treatment to the public outside of hospitals. 

they never advocated it not being prescribed. "Available to the public" is being used to trick people into thinking they wanted it next to the advil.

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So, Trump plans to scale back the daily briefings.

I'm proud of him for either showing an ounce of self-awareness or, more likely, listening to others telling him how awful he looks. I didn't think his hubris would allow him to step away from the camera no matter how poorly he performs.

OTOH, it's predictable, but a shame it took the briefings being bad for him, not the American people, to make him stop. 

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9 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

No it isnt.

They mislead you from the get go..

WASHINGTON — Trump White House appointees pressured government health officials to make an unproven malaria drug available to the public to treat the disease caused by the new coronavirus without a doctor’s supervision, according to internal emails published by Vanity Fair on Friday. 

The pressure tactics caused panic and pushback from scientists and doctors at several federal health agencies, who refused to suspend drug regulations in order to distribute the potentially dangerous treatment to the public outside of hospitals. 

they never advocated it not being prescribed. "Available to the public" is being used to trick people into thinking they wanted it next to the advil.

He was touting this drug for weeks, almost daily. He didn’t want it as Advil, but he wanted it readily available in mass quantities with a simple prescription by someone like a teledoc. All with little clinical evidence beyond a trial of like 36 people in France. Pretty black and white stuff here. The guy who was demoted was pushing back.

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4 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

He was touting this drug for weeks, almost daily. He didn’t want it as Advil, but he wanted it readily available in mass quantities with a simple prescription by someone like a teledoc. All with little clinical evidence beyond a trial of like 36 people in France. Pretty black and white stuff here. The guy who was demoted was pushing back.

Literally everything you typed is already widely known. They werent secretive about it. But see you cant write an article about that. 

"Trump admin promotes malaria drug for covid 19" 

Doesnt sell anything anymore. You need to change it up with new phrasing and "secret emails" and available to public. 

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3 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Literally everything you typed is already widely known. They werent secretive about it. But see you cant write an article about that. 

"Trump admin promotes malaria drug for covid 19" 

Doesnt sell anything anymore. You need to change it up with new phrasing and "secret emails" and available to public. 

What exactly is widely known? The POTUS unwisely promoted a drug with no clinical evidence, or a top doc who is important to the current situation was demoted for resisting WH pressure?

 

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23 minutes ago, pollardsvision said:

So, Trump plans to scale back the daily briefings.

I'm proud of him for either showing an ounce of self-awareness or, more likely, listening to others telling him how awful he looks. I didn't think his hubris would allow him to step away from the camera no matter how poorly he performs.

OTOH, it's predictable, but a shame it took the briefings being bad for him, not the American people, to make him stop. 

It’s a shame they’re stopping bc they would’ve been 100% his downfall (they still hurt, but society has a short memory), all while his base thought they were good :lmao:

 

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5 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

This. You telling me this isnt a widely known point among any consumer of cnbc? 

I would say little instead of no, but that isnt necessary for our discussion. 

I consider a trial of 36 to basically be none (certainly not a game changer to be touted by the President), but yes not this discussion.

And the 2nd part of my comment your quote left out; someone very important to the current situation being demoted for not bowing to WH pressure, none story also?

ETA:

I didn’t need CNBC to tell me that, but having some emails acknowledges what I thought was correct.

Edited by fantasycurse42
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2 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

This. You telling me this isnt a widely known point among any consumer of cnbc? 

I would say little instead of no, but that isnt necessary for our discussion. 

So your point is that the Trump administration doesn't listen to experts, enacts policy based on the gut instincts and snap reactions of the President, and then punishes those with dissenting opinions, and that this is all well known so we don't need to discuss it further?

Not trying to put words in your mouth, but I'm trying to figure out which part is aheady known and not worth future discussion.

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34 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

It’s a shame they’re stopping bc they would’ve been 100% his downfall (they still hurt, but society has a short memory), all while his base thought they were good :lmao:

Was going to link to a “Downfall” parody here but I’m not looking to get banned again. So instead just go search on YouTube and then pretend you clicked on a link in my post :P

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1 hour ago, pollardsvision said:

So, Trump plans to scale back the daily briefings.

I'm proud of him for either showing an ounce of self-awareness or, more likely, listening to others telling him how awful he looks. I didn't think his hubris would allow him to step away from the camera no matter how poorly he performs.

OTOH, it's predictable, but a shame it took the briefings being bad for him, not the American people, to make him stop. 

He should have scaled back his involvement long ago.  Let the press secretary set the stage for the experts and let them brief on progress.

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...While he almost always attends the daily press briefings, Trump rarely attends the coronavirus task force meetings that precede them. The task force doesn't seem to mind.

According to one person close to the task force, the meetings become more prolonged if Trump attends and often go off script. When Pence is at the helm, aides say, they usually tick through the agenda rapidly. Trump comes to roughly one briefing a week. At times, 10 days or more have passed without him attending.

...Trump often turns up when he's not expected. His presence often throws the meeting well off its assigned agenda and frequently centers on how his performance is being viewed in the media or in polling.

More often than not, however, senior members of the task force brief Trump in the Oval Office after their formal meeting in the Situation Room -- as they did this week, when the official from the Department of Homeland Security offered Trump a presentation on the effect of sunlight and disinfectant on the virus. ...

...The medical musings the country witnessed on Thursday were familiar to members of the task force, however, who have listened silently as Trump raises various medical theories with little basis in science or fact. ...

CNN

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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So I was reading this morning about an issue that will have to be tackled before we can reopen the economy, even with proper testing: 

Should the government impose a liability shield for the coronavirus? Basically not allow people to sue? 

If they don’t do this, companies will hesitate to open. This is a tough one. I don’t know. 

Edited by timschochet
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26 minutes ago, timschochet said:

WHO: No evidence that antibodies (already having the virus and recovered) makes you immune from getting it again. 

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-04-25-20-intl/h_f27a3766405e18fcb2a55f45f6e8e6a3

Well that’s just dandy. 

That's a kick in the nuts. Let's hope it's not true, or at least reinfection has milder symptoms.

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26 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

CNN

Even more proof he shouldn't be up there doing the press conferences.  Let the Press Sec read the President's thoughts and introduce the experts that actually handle the task force...or just let Pence run it.

 

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19 minutes ago, timschochet said:

So I was reading this morning about an issue that will have to be tackled before we can reopen the economy, even with proper testing: 

Should the government impose a liability shield for the coronavirus? Basically not allow people to sue? 

If they don’t do this, companies will hesitate to open. This is a tough one. I don’t know. 

Blanket?  No way.

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24 minutes ago, timschochet said:

So I was reading this morning about an issue that will have to be tackled before we can reopen the economy, even with proper testing: 

Should the government impose a liability shield for the coronavirus? Basically not allow people to sue? 

If they don’t do this, companies will hesitate to open. This is a tough one. I don’t know. 

The answer is no. But even if people sue, the legal grounds would be extremely shaky. Who are you going to sue?

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52 minutes ago, timschochet said:

WHO: No evidence that antibodies (already having the virus and recovered) makes you immune from getting it again. 

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-04-25-20-intl/h_f27a3766405e18fcb2a55f45f6e8e6a3

Well that’s just dandy. 

Well, yes Tim, I understand the WHO's caution, but with most respiratory illnesses similar to the flu (which this probably is) once one is infected they can't be infected a second time (unless it perhaps would be from a mutated strain). 

If antibodies won't protect one from getting it again, that would make a vaccine pointless IMO.

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39 minutes ago, timschochet said:

So I was reading this morning about an issue that will have to be tackled before we can reopen the economy, even with proper testing: 

Should the government impose a liability shield for the coronavirus? Basically not allow people to sue? 

If they don’t do this, companies will hesitate to open. This is a tough one. I don’t know. 

It's not a tough one at all. The government is trying to pass along responsibility it has. By doing this, now you cannot get unemployment from the government in you have to go to work. The company isn't going to allow you to stay at home because you are expected at work. If you have a pre-existing condition or don't want to risk getting sick, you are now fired, and then you can't get unemployment because the company will say you quit then you can't ask for rent deferment because you should be at work.

No, this is not a tough one. Trump and his administration didn't take precautionary measures to allow us to open early by doing what they should have done early. Trump's modus operandi is to always pass the problem to someone else even though he created it. It's not even a secret that this is what he does. He's done it to Scotland, he's done it to El Paso, and he will do it to the American people... and 40% of the people will be a-okay with it.

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21 minutes ago, shader said:

We've proven to be better than everyone else at handling this crisis, so we should probably just continue to go it alone.  Just like developing our own test. Much better sensitivity and specificity in the USA made tests. Really put is in the driver's seat.

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14 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

We've proven to be better than everyone else at handling this crisis, so we should probably just continue to go it alone.  Just like developing our own test. Much better sensitivity and specificity in the USA made tests. Really put is in the driver's seat.

My sarcasm reader is failing.  Is this a serious post?

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2 minutes ago, Chaz McNulty said:

My sarcasm reader is failing.  Is this a serious post?

No. The WHO and others have done pandemic preparedness ratings (prior to this pandemic) and the USA ranked very highly.  I think that the researchers will have to revisit those ratings.  They likely didn't consider the potential our government would stick it's head in the sand, ignore experts, and push magic bullet solutions.

This example is just another nail in the coffin proving that the US system of government is broken.

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

Should the government impose a liability shield for the coronavirus? Basically not allow people to sue? 

If they don’t do this, companies will hesitate to open. This is a tough one. I don’t know. 

No. This will just encourage bad decision making. If states want to help they could put a moratorium on rent payments for a month. That will be the big driver of businesses and employees to come back prematurely.

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4 hours ago, timschochet said:

WHO: No evidence that antibodies (already having the virus and recovered) makes you immune from getting it again. 

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-04-25-20-intl/h_f27a3766405e18fcb2a55f45f6e8e6a3

Well that’s just dandy. 


Responded to a Yahoo article on this point in the other thread:

Quote

 

The Yahoo article was deliberately -- and irresponsibly -- posed. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Yahoo knows laymen will read "no evidence" as "CANNOT EVER HAPPEN!!! Totally ruled out 100%!", which makes the article more sensationalist and generates more clicks.

In truth, the evidence so far points to post-recovery immunity that lasts a relatively short time. That specific "short time" is not yet nailed down and will differ between individuals anyway. Might average two months. Might average six months, a year? Not enough evidence collected yet to be sure.

Think about this "no immunity, ever!" Yahoo article in conjunction with other established information that has already come out about COVID treatments - specifically plasma infusion from a recovered COVD patient. If no immunity ever developed, the plasma-infusion treatment would not work at all -- yet this treatment is known to be effective. The issue with plasma infusion from recovered patients is not efficacy -- it is the limited amount of plasma that can be collected from each individual recovered person. Not nearly enough to go around.

 


TL;DR: It's nowhere near confirmed that recovered COVID patients get no subsequent immunity whatsoever. And that's how this recent pronouncement by WHO is commonly being interpreted.

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14 minutes ago, Kal El said:

Just another bad idea from an Oval Office that has a long, long list of bad ideas.

Not a big fan of helping out the people that hate you.  Not necessarily bothered by this at all.

The head of this organization did as much as possible to cover up China's role in this whole thing.

America bad - we get it.

Edited by BladeRunner
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2 hours ago, shader said:
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The United States will not take part in the launching of a global initiative on Friday to speed the development, production and distribution of drugs and vaccines against COVID-19, a spokesman for the U.S. mission in Geneva told Reuters.

“There will be no U.S. official participation”, he said in an email reply to a query. “We look forward to learning more about this initiative in support of international cooperation to develop a vaccine for COVID-19 as soon as possible.”

 

This is so insanely stupid. The closes comp I can think of this was Hoover's response to the crashing market in 1929. Zigging when zags are required, zagging for the opposite.

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2 hours ago, Amused to Death said:

And some people will complain when China and Russia start to fill the void the US has left by becoming isolationists.

Aren't you the same guys that complain whenever USA takes the lead in anything?  Saying that America should mind it's own business global affairs?

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26 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

The head of this organization did as much as possible to cover up China's role in this whole thing.

I think one problem here is the idea that withdrawing American support for global endeavors means that somehow our adversaries will just sit still.

What involvement did the US have in the last election for WHO Director? I'm guessing knowing the Trump administration we sat on our hands and America Firsted while China worked the delegates. Am I right? 

And how do you think further withdrawal of support will help us vs how it will help China and other adversaries in the future?

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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GOP memo urges anti-China assault over coronavirus
The Senate Republican campaign arm distributed the 57-page strategy document to candidates.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/24/gop-memo-anti-china-coronavirus-207244

Quote

The document urges candidates to stay relentlessly on message against the country when responding to any questions about the virus. When asked whether the spread of the coronavirus is Trump’s fault, candidates are advised to respond by pivoting to China.

“Don’t defend Trump, other than the China Travel Ban — attack China,” the memo states.

Republicans have indicated they plan to make China a centerpiece of the 2020 campaign. Trump’s reelection campaign recently released a web video painting Joe Biden as cozy with the authoritarian country. The pro-Trump super PAC America First Action has launched several TV commercials tying Biden to China.

 

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1 hour ago, BladeRunner said:

Not a big fan of helping out the people that hate you.  Not necessarily bothered by this at all.

The head of this organization did as much as possible to cover up China's role in this whole thing.

America bad - we get it.

I know you think you know what the opposing viewpoint is somehow "America bad," despite the fact that we live here, too, why would we want it to fail? That's so far away from correct that it isn't even in the same universe. It is a woefully uninformed opinion, and frankly anyone who shares it should be ashamed for doing so. Our nation was founded on the right to protest against unfair governing by people in charge, and Trump has done pretty much everything wrong with this pandemic response. From downplaying the severity from day 1, to suggesting medically unsound advice, to absconding from the leadership role, he has proven himself unworthy as a "leader." But I know this will fall on deaf ears, as the chant of "America bad, China good" will be used to vilify those who want solid leadership at the top.

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2 hours ago, BladeRunner said:

Aren't you the same guys that complain whenever USA takes the lead in anything?  Saying that America should mind it's own business global affairs?

isn't that the cornerstone of Trump foreign policy?  Unilateral everything, America first, etc?

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