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Government Response To The Coronavirus


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This is going to be a one off post because I don't want to get trolled or banned but if I were American, the context of Canada would be the biggest damning fact of how things have been handled in the

Australia has had months of little to no community spread and even then it was confined to one state. By and large Australians are running around doing the right thing, sport was and is still hap

I am confident we are going to hit >750K deaths.  I think it might be a million.  I don't post a ton but I'm an ER doc in a big city. This is by far the worse I've seen since the pandemic star

1 hour ago, shader said:

So true.  Man produces more than enough food to feed everyone on the planet, and yet there is starvation and malnutrition everywhere. Anyone who has worked in a restaurant has plenty of stories of waste.

Maybe the current situation can help to eliminate any gov't regulations that prevent food waste from being utilized in a more productive way.

Food waste from a farm is very different. It isnt free to pick vegetables and you cant send a cow to the food bank. 

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2 hours ago, The Commish said:

I don't know if this is the correct thread, but it seems as good a place as any.  We have a HUGE disconnect between food issues and the needy it appears.  I am reading articles of people waiting in mile long lines for food only to turn the page and read about farmers having to let their crops rot in the fields because there is no one to take them.  Just an example...some farmers support our school systems with their crops.  Obviously, school is not in session so those guys don't have customers at the moment.  How do we NOT have a federal oversight group coordinating between those who have food to give and those who need food to live?  My BIL's best friend had to till under almost $2M in beans because he had nobody to give them to.  In the same county (Palm Beach County) there are people going without food for days on end because they lost their jobs and have no way to pay for food.  WTF people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Saw something similar where a farmer took it upon himself to send to a food kitchen instead of just letting it rot and pouring out milk.

I can't understand how something like that is so difficult

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15 minutes ago, belljr said:

Saw something similar where a farmer took it upon himself to send to a food kitchen instead of just letting it rot and pouring out milk.

I can't understand how something like that is so difficult

I don't think it's difficult to do.  It's just about being able to put two and two together and caring enough to make it happen.

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Asked about the US hitting 1 million coronavirus cases, and his February prediction of going from 15 to close to 0, Trump says, "Well, it will go down to zero, ultimately."

 

Its hard to argue with logic like this.

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56 minutes ago, James Daulton said:

You don't expect the rich to go without their meat do you?

Rich people would still get meat if there were a shortage.  I think he’s more worried about his base.  Not a lot of tofu lovers at the MAGA rallies is my guess.

ETA: Also farmers would get totally screwed if the plants shut down and they had no place to sell to.

Edited by fatguyinalittlecoat
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58 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:
1 hour ago, The Commish said:

Do we have either one?  I honestly don't know.

Yes, it's Sonny Perdue. Probably one of 2-3 cabinet secretaries to stay in place for all of Trump's administration.

I just assumed it was an acting secretary :bag: 

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20 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Rich people would still get meat if there were a shortage.  I think he’s more worried about his base.  Not a lot of tofu lovers at the MAGA rallies is my guess.

ETA: Also farmers would get totally screwed if the plants shut down and they had no place to sell to.

That's already happening....maybe not with meat, but dairy, eggs, vegetables etc.....see my post up a bit.  They simply have no one to take what they are growing which is baffling given the fact that there are literally mile long lines of people waiting for food from food banks.

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2 minutes ago, The Commish said:

That's already happening....maybe not with meat, but dairy, eggs, vegetables etc.....see my post up a bit.  They simply have no one to take what they are growing which is baffling given the fact that there are literally mile long lines of people waiting for food from food banks.

I find this baffling too.  What part of the supply chain is busted?

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5 minutes ago, James Daulton said:

I find this baffling too.  What part of the supply chain is busted?

The link that connects the supplier to the consumer apparently. Kind of shocking given we have a "business man" in the oval office.  I'm beginning to think he might not know what he's doing or hasn't surrounded himself with people who know what they are doing.

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24 minutes ago, whoknew said:

Such an ###. 

Let's not forget that Mike Pence, in the current administration,  is the ONLY PERSON IN THE ROOM THAT RESEMBLES A REASONABLE ADULT.

Resembles being a key distinction. 

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2 hours ago, Sinn Fein said:

Asked about the US hitting 1 million coronavirus cases, and his February prediction of going from 15 to close to 0, Trump says, "Well, it will go down to zero, ultimately."

 

Its hard to argue with logic like this.

<JamesBond> "Last rat standing" </JamesBond>

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The Trump crew is now calling Dr. Fauci “deep state”.  Un. F-ing. Real.  What has this world come to!  When all you’ve got left is that the whole world is against you and you’re the constant victim, it’s really time to look in the mirror.  

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1 minute ago, dkp993 said:

The Trump crew is now calling Dr. Fauci “deep state”.  Un. F-ing. Real.  What has this world come to!  When all you’ve got left is that the whole world is against you and you’re the constant victim, it’s really time to look in the mirror.  

They've been clamoring for his firing for some time, all because he dares to do his actual job instead of agreeing with whatever Trump says.

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5 hours ago, The Commish said:

I don't know if this is the correct thread, but it seems as good a place as any.  We have a HUGE disconnect between food issues and the needy it appears.  I am reading articles of people waiting in mile long lines for food only to turn the page and read about farmers having to let their crops rot in the fields because there is no one to take them.  Just an example...some farmers support our school systems with their crops.  Obviously, school is not in session so those guys don't have customers at the moment.  How do we NOT have a federal oversight group coordinating between those who have food to give and those who need food to live?  My BIL's best friend had to till under almost $2M in beans because he had nobody to give them to.  In the same county (Palm Beach County) there are people going without food for days on end because they lost their jobs and have no way to pay for food.  WTF people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There was a recent Freakonomics podcast about the difficulty of changing these supply chains.  They were probably too sanguine on how bad it would get.

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10 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

The Trump crew is now calling Dr. Fauci “deep state”.  Un. F-ing. Real.  What has this world come to!  When all you’ve got left is that the whole world is against you and you’re the constant victim, it’s really time to look in the mirror.  

And complaining that two Doctors  spreading misinformation were victims when youtube took their free speech.  And yeah...their videos were getting railed in by many in the medical community as dangerous misinformation.

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24 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

The Trump crew is now calling Dr. Fauci “deep state”.  Un. F-ing. Real.  What has this world come to!  When all you’ve got left is that the whole world is against you and you’re the constant victim, it’s really time to look in the mirror.  

Could you have imagined a time in our history when a silver spoon, reality tv guy would command 1/3rd of our country with such an iron fist that they'd turn against every single person, no matter how distinguished or qualified, who dare question his penultimate wisdom?

Crazy.

Edited by James Daulton
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2 hours ago, The Commish said:
2 hours ago, James Daulton said:

I find this baffling too.  What part of the supply chain is busted?

The link that connects the supplier to the consumer apparently. Kind of shocking given we have a "business man" in the oval office.  I'm beginning to think he might not know what he's doing or hasn't surrounded himself with people who know what they are doing.

It would seem that not enough food handling/producing plants are either deemed essential and have taken precautions to avoid becoming hotspots like Smithfield. Or maybe they are not deemed essential. Or they can't get workers to come in.

Could be exacerbated by lack of transportation maybe (for similar reasons)

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4 hours ago, JbizzleMan said:

I know a lot of farmers that are very dependent on meat packing plants that will be happy with this and it will prevent meat shortages but this is a disaster waiting to happen. They are already the scenes of some of the worst outbreaks and they seem to be impossible to work safely in.

Another worry is these outbreaks will lead to backlash against the immigrants that make up a high percentage of the workforce. Seems to fit right into the ‘spreading disease and taking jobs’ narrative that so often is used.

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"But I think what happens is: it's gonna go away. This is gonna go away. And whether it comes back in a modified form in the fall, we'll be able to handle it. We'll be able to put out spurts. And we're very prepared to handle it.”

- President Donald John Trump, 4/28/2020

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3 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

"But I think what happens is: it's gonna go away. This is gonna go away. And whether it comes back in a modified form in the fall, we'll be able to handle it. We'll be able to put out spurts. And we're very prepared to handle it.”

- President Donald John Trump, 4/28/2020

I've seen this movie before, everything blows up as the "leader" abdicated his role to save his own skin.

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52 minutes ago, James Daulton said:

Could you have imagined a time in our history when a silver spoon, reality tv guy would command 1/3rd of our country with such an iron fist that they'd turn against every single person, no matter how distinguished or qualified, who dare question his penultimate wisdom?

Crazy.

It really is amazing how he conned his way into this spot.

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9 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

President’s intelligence briefing book repeatedly cited virus threat

  Reveal hidden contents

U.S. intelligence agencies issued warnings about the novel coronavirus in more than a dozen classified briefings prepared for President Trump in January and February, months during which he continued to play down the threat, according to current and former U.S. officials.

The repeated warnings were conveyed in issues of the President’s Daily Brief, a sensitive report that is produced before dawn each day and designed to call the president’s attention to the most significant global developments and security threats.

For weeks, the PDB — as the report is known — traced the virus’s spread around the globe, made clear that China was suppressing information about the contagion’s transmissibility and lethal toll, and raised the prospect of dire political and economic consequences.

But the alarms appear to have failed to register with the president, who routinely skips reading the PDB and has at times shown little patience for even the oral summary he takes two or three times per week, according to the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss classified material.

The advisories being relayed by U.S. spy agencies were part of a broader collection of worrisome signals that came during a period now regarded by many public health officials and other experts as a squandered opportunity to contain the outbreak.

As of Monday, more than 55,000 people in the United States had died of covid-19.

The frequency with which the coronavirus was mentioned in the PDB has not been previously reported, and U.S. officials said it reflected a level of attention comparable to periods when analysts have been tracking active terrorism threats, overseas conflicts or other rapidly developing security issues.

A White House spokesman disputed the characterization that Trump was slow to respond to the virus threat. “President Trump rose to fight this crisis head-on by taking early, aggressive historic action to protect the health, wealth and well-being of the American people,” said spokesman Hogan Gidley. “We will get through this difficult time and defeat this virus because of his decisive leadership.”

The Office of the Director of National Intelligence is responsible for the PDB. In response to questions about the repeated mentions of coronavirus, a DNI official said, “The detail of this is not true.” The official declined to explain or elaborate.

U.S. officials emphasized that the PDB references to the virus included comprehensive articles on aspects of the global outbreak, but also smaller digest items meant to keep Trump and senior administration officials updated on the course of the contagion. Versions of the PDB are also shared with Cabinet secretaries and other high-ranking U.S. officials.

One official said that by mid- to late January the coronavirus was being mentioned more frequently, either as one of the report’s core articles or in what is known as an “executive update,” and that it was almost certainly called to Trump’s attention orally.

The administration’s first major step to arrest the spread of the virus came in late January, when Trump restricted travel between the United States and China, where the virus is believed to have originated late last year.

But Trump spent much of February publicly playing down the threat while his administration failed to mobilize for a major outbreak by securing supplies of protective equipment, developing an effective diagnostic test and preparing plans to quarantine large portions of the population.

Trump insisted publicly on Feb. 26 that the number of cases “within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero,” and said the next day that “it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

In reality, the virus was by then moving swiftly through communities across the United States, spreading virtually unchecked in New York City and other population centers until state governors began imposing sweeping lockdowns, requiring social distancing and all but closing huge sectors of the country’s economy.

As late as March 10, Trump said: “Just stay calm. It will go away.” The next day, the World Health Organization declared the coronavirus outbreak a global pandemic.

By then, officials said, the warnings in the PDB and other intelligence reports had taken on the aspect of an insistent drumbeat. The first mention of the coronavirus in the PDB came at the beginning of January, focusing on what at that point were troubling signs of a new virus spreading through the Chinese city of Wuhan, and the Chinese government’s apparent efforts to conceal details of the outbreak.

In the ensuing weeks, U.S. intelligence agencies devoted additional resources and departments to tracking the spread of the coronavirus. At the CIA, the effort involved agency centers on China, Europe and Latin America, as well as departments devoted to transnational health threats, officials said.

The preliminary intelligence on the coronavirus was fragmentary, and did not address the prospects of a severe outbreak in the United States.

U.S. intelligence officials, citing scientific evidence, have largely dismissed the notion that the virus was deliberately genetically engineered. But they are continuing to examine whether the virus somehow escaped a virology lab in Wuhan, where research on naturally occurring coronaviruses has been conducted.

“We’re looking at it very closely, but we just don’t know,” said one senior U.S. intelligence official.

The warnings conveyed in the PDB probably will be a focus of any future investigation of the Trump administration’s handling of the pandemic. Rep. Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.), the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, in early April called for the formation of an independent commission analogous to the one created to investigate the Sept, 11, 2001, attacks.

In response to that probe, the George W. Bush administration was pressured to declassify portions of the PDB from August 2001 — a month before 9/11 — warning that al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden was “determined to strike in U.S.”

Senior officials with direct knowledge of Trump’s intelligence briefings say that Trump listens and asks questions during the sessions. “We go in and he treats us with respect,” one senior official said.

But Trump has also been combative or dismissive toward U.S. intelligence agencies throughout his presidency.

In mid-February, as the pathogen was spreading, Trump fired acting director of national intelligence Joseph Maguire after learning that a senior analyst had briefed members of Congress that Russia was seeking to interfere in the 2020 presidential election and had “developed a preference” for Trump.

Officials have noted that Trump was also contending with the Senate impeachment trial in January and focused on other security issues, including tracking Iran’s response to a Jan. 3 U.S. airstrike that killed a top Iranian commander, Qasem Soleimani, in Baghdad.

David Priess, a former CIA officer who was a PDB briefer in the George W. Bush administration, said that even if Trump is ignoring his briefing book, other officials including national security adviser Robert O’Brien are probably digesting the material and interacting with Trump daily.

O’Brien’s deputy, Matthew Pottinger, has a background in intelligence and was among a small circle of senior officials urging early action to contain the coronavirus, U.S. officials said. Pottinger pushed to close off air travel from Europe in February, officials said, but Trump did not do so until mid-March.

“The fact that [Trump] gets only two or three briefings a week from the intelligence professionals doesn’t mean that’s the only exposure to the PDB he’s getting,” Priess said. “He can get the best intelligence in the world and still not make good decisions based on it.”

Priess, author of a book on intelligence briefings for presidents, said that Trump’s predecessors have been varied in their approaches to consuming intelligence. President Barack Obama was considered an avid reader of “the book,” which was prepared for him on a specially equipped computer tablet. President George W. Bush reviewed the highlights of the PDB and often discussed its contents at length with his briefer. President Richard M. Nixon likely didn’t read the PDB, Priess said, but was extensively briefed by his national security adviser, Henry Kissinger.

Trump’s top health officials and advisers were also delivering warnings on the coronavirus through January and February, though their messages at times appeared muddled and contradictory.

On Feb. 25, Nancy Messonnier, the director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, warned publicly that virus was spreading so rapidly that “we need to be prepared for significant disruption in our lives.”

Trump, traveling in India at the time, was outraged by what he regarded as the alarmist tone of her remarks and their perceived impact on the U.S. stock market.

Two days later, Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar testified before a Congressional committee that the risk to the public remained “low,” and that the coronavirus would “look and feel to the American people more like a severe flu season in terms of the interventions and approaches you will see.”

On March 11, with cases surging in New York and the stock market plummeting, Trump declared a national emergency and announced a ban on travel from Europe, which had become the new epicenter of the outbreak.

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And yet 47 percent of the population thinks he has done a good job with this. It's really hard to have any faith in this country when I see poll numbers like that.

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25 minutes ago, matuski said:

I can't decide which end of the spectrum is more funny:

ITS A HOAX!

versus

WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!

I mean, technically we all will die at some point in the future.

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1 hour ago, msommer said:

It would seem that not enough food handling/producing plants are either deemed essential and have taken precautions to avoid becoming hotspots like Smithfield. Or maybe they are not deemed essential. Or they can't get workers to come in.

Could be exacerbated by lack of transportation maybe (for similar reasons)

I'd like this to be true.  The more likely reason is adding two and two together is lost on this admin and they don't know what they are doing.

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1 hour ago, Slapdash said:

There was a recent Freakonomics podcast about the difficulty of changing these supply chains.  They were probably too sanguine on how bad it would get.

That'd be an interesting listen...I'll need to hunt it down.  I can't imagine a farmer reaching out to a local group and giving them whatever they want/need rather than just tilling it under or pouring it out.

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20 minutes ago, Tolstoy said:

I suppose if the latter actually existed, we could evaluate

Fair enough.  Allow me to make this 100% real.  And no less ridiculous. :lol:

MILLIONS WILL DIE!

Evaluate away.

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6 minutes ago, matuski said:

Fair enough.  Allow me to make this 100% real.  And no less ridiculous. :lol:

MILLIONS WILL DIE!

In fairness, since pandemics don't have a set end point, the total count could reach 7 digits. In 4 months, we're approaching 250,000 dead. It's plausible that there could be a million dead by Labor Day 2021.

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3 minutes ago, Kal El said:

In fairness, since pandemics don't have a set end point, the total count could reach 7 digits. In 4 months, we're approaching 250,000 dead. It's plausible that there could be a million dead by Labor Day 2021.

And the stetching to justify one side's ridiculousness continues.

 

This is the funny part.

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22 minutes ago, matuski said:

Fair enough.  Allow me to make this 100% real.  And no less ridiculous. :lol:

MILLIONS WILL DIE!

Evaluate away.

I think that was the top-end of the model where no mitigation took place.

We have been on lock down for nearly 6 weeks now - with another few weeks to go.

I would say that is a lot of mitigation that altered those top-end numbers quite a bit.  Thankfully, we'll never know how close the models would have been.  But, it is willful ignorance to ignore the impact of mitigation.

It essentially amounts to an argument: "See, mitigation worked, therefore we should not have mitigated!"

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:(

It's official:

Trump has signed an executive order to compel meat processing plants to stay open amid the coronavirus pandemic — and he will provide companies with liability protections in case employees catch the virus as a result of having to go to work.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-order-meat-processing-plants-stay-open-amid-coronavirus-pandemic-n1194536

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Just now, Sinn Fein said:

I think that was the top-end of the model where no mitigation took place.

We have been on lock down for nearly 6 weeks now - with another few weeks to go.

I would say that is a lot of mitigation that altered those top-end numbers quite a bit.  Thankfully, we'll never know how close the models would have been.  But, it is willful ignorance to ignore the impact of mitigation.

It essentially amounts to an argument: "See, mitigation worked, therefore we should not have mitigated!"

It was a headline in mega font on CNN.  Like the yankees won the world series.

And of course mitigatoin worked.... ?  

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Just now, squistion said:

:(

It's official:

Trump has signed an executive order to compel meat processing plants to stay open amid the coronavirus pandemic — and he will provide companies with liability protections in case employees catch the virus as a result of having to go to work.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-order-meat-processing-plants-stay-open-amid-coronavirus-pandemic-n1194536

Does this mean that employees can’t sue?

They should all stay home.

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1 minute ago, squistion said:

:(

It's official:

Trump has signed an executive order to compel meat processing plants to stay open amid the coronavirus pandemic — and he will provide companies with liability protections in case employees catch the virus as a result of having to go to work.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-order-meat-processing-plants-stay-open-amid-coronavirus-pandemic-n1194536

The irony of what is happening in meat packing plants is off the charts.

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Just now, matuski said:

It was a headline in mega font on CNN.  Like the yankees won the world series.

And of course mitigatoin worked.... ?  

We are easily going to hit 100k dead by August with massive mitigation efforts.  What would that number be had the governors not acted quickly?  1M seems easily reachable.

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Just now, James Daulton said:

Does this mean that employees can’t sue?

They should all stay home.

Not sure, but if they do, then the companies will be indemnified for the litigation costs and any damage awards.

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12 minutes ago, matuski said:

And the stetching to justify one side's ridiculousness continues.

 

This is the funny part.

I'm pretty much sure I don't have a side as taking sides during a global pandemic and economic disaster seems kinda self-serving and dumb. That said, I don't find anything funny about somebody being concerned about a new source of death claiming 1,000,000 in 20 months or so.

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