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Government Response To The Coronavirus (9 Viewers)

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supermike80 said:
Dude. That is NOT the main argument.  If you're going to define what can be measured and nothing else then so be it.  It seems to me this board has shown consistently that the economic impact doesnt matter much here
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So I'm asking you. How is the strategy working? 

And I specifically mentioned the economic impact so it does matter. 

Educate me.

 
gianmarco said:
Orrrrr....don't.

Neighboring countries won't let Sweden citizens enter.

I can look if you want, but they showed that Sweden's economy has been down and hurt just as badly as others.  They didn't benefit economically at all by staying open but they have far more deaths and cases.  In other words, it was the wrong strategy.
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I think one thing this debate ignores is that strategy <> behavior necessarily. People as a general rule behave as safe as they feel. If Swedes saw that in general the strategy wasn't working they may have began to behave in a manner similar to other Europeans regardless of messages from the government. I have seen some pieces out of Sweden indicating this observation that the Swedes as individuals began to change behavior significantly based on poor results.    

 
The frustrating part of this entire thing - even now, this late into a very poor response - we could effectively knock the virus out if we had a nation-wide lockdown - serious lockdown - for 14 days.

But, it can't be the half-assed lockdowns many states tried.  It has to be a firm commitment by everyone, and every city, county, state - no matter the current cases.

Everyone takes it seriously for 14-days, long enough to encompass the presumed incubation period.  Then, we would be able to move on with some sense of normalcy, with minimum restrictions, just like the rest of the world is doing.

But, we have too many people who are unwilling to make that level of sacrifice.  Two Weeks.

 
supermike80 said:
I only posted on the health impact.  Im sorry I missed your desire to only focus on the economics.  
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Ok, so how is the strategy working for the health impact? 

I see their numbers have slowed down.  But they aren't better than other areas.  And their previous totals are far worse.  So, I'm wondering how their strategy worked.  In what way has it worked?

 
supermike80 said:
What's "many"
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you are the one who refuted the original post:

supermike80 said:
Skoo said:
Yep!

I mean sure, those kids will bring it back to their families and many of those people will die, but most of the kids themselves will be ok.

And the few who aren't? Well we got a stock market to worry about.
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This just isn't a true statement.
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it's on you to define what "many" refers to and why you think "many" won't die.  Once you do that, I think the discussion moves to an acknowledgement that "some" will die (let's toss out "might" because with the millions of parents out there and a non-zero fatality rate, it's statistically certain that there will be deaths).  

If "some" or "many" is acceptable is another debate entirely.

 
moleculo said:
you are the one who refuted the original post:

it's on you to define what "many" refers to and why you think "many" won't die.  Once you do that, I think the discussion moves to an acknowledgement that "some" will die (let's toss out "might" because with the millions of parents out there and a non-zero fatality rate, it's statistically certain that there will be deaths).  

If "some" or "many" is acceptable is another debate entirely.
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No it isnt.  You said many,not me

 
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“Some areas of our country are doing very well, others are doing less well,” the President said. “It will probably, unfortunately, get worse before it gets better. Something I don’t like saying about things, but that’s the way it is.”

This is so blatantly infuriating just in its "meh, whatever" insensitivity.  Oh well, it is what it is, I guess.  What kind of strategy is that?  The federal government abdicated its responsibility over the pandemic long ago and it's been deemed a local issue, run by local politicians with different agendas and different, or no, strategies.  So after 7 months, "some areas" are OK and some are not.  Duh.  How ya think that happened?  Further, the lack of a consistent, or even TRUTHFUL, or even COHERENT, message helped put us here.  "It'll disappear" "Cleared up by Easter/Memorial Day" "Inject bleach and disinfectants!" "I take no responsibility" and on and on.  Our President has cheered on and supported the whole "wearing a mask infringes on my freedom!" idiocy, and has demeaned, denied, and disparaged the scientists at every turn.  Of course we can't agree on anything because we lack a consistent message.

YOU PUT US HERE DONALD!  THIS IS COMPLETELY ON YOU.

 
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supermike80 said:
What's "many"
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Currently America alone, directly from our admins choices, has "many" being in the vicinity of the total deaths from the dropping 2 Atomic Bombs on Japan. And that is over the early 18 weeks.

The next 18 weeks will dwarf that -- if we continue to do the conservative "feedom" way. And opening schools, which were mostly closed for the past 18 weeks will add yet another multiplier with some 56 million more kids and their families being thrown into the heavily exposed mix. 

Many.

 
Thunderlips said:
Excuse me, Stewardess....I speak Trump. 

You have to flip the first two sentences....

"I don’t agree with the statement that if everybody wear a mask everything disappears.......I want people to have a certain freedom" 

He's saying "Simply put, the masks aren't going to solve EVERYTHING!!!.....and if they by themselves are unable to make everything alright....then I'd rather allow people  to have the freedom to chose to NOT wear the mask."

"Everybody who is saying don’t wear a mask – all of sudden everybody’s got to wear a mask, and as you know masks cause problems, too."

He's saying "There has been great confusion in regards to wearing versus not wear masks.  Experts have gone back and forth.  Even individuals who have said "don't wear a mask" are now saying "wear a mask".  I believe that they're not the cure all that those who say they are think they are AND they have a potential to create other problems"
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Excuse me, I'm sorry to bother you, but do you also translate Kanye or know someone who does?

 
parasaurolophus said:
Sweden had one of the most relaxed COVID-19 lockdowns in the world. There's growing evidence that it helped it weather 2020's economic storm better than anywhere else.
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Wasn't their -1.5% prediction recently revised to approx. -4.5%, or essentially, the same as everyone around them?  Outside of this article, which appears to be using outdated information, literally everything I've seen states that, to date, Sweden's approach has given them significantly worse health outcomes and similar economic outcomes to their peer countries.

 
parasaurolophus said:
Sweden had one of the most relaxed COVID-19 lockdowns in the world. There's growing evidence that it helped it weather 2020's economic storm better than anywhere else.
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Sweden ends up overall in a cluster with other Euro nations. - Though per capita they're worse. - I feel like this discussion was more relevant when we the US were picking an avenue to run through to get to where they are. Go high, go low, through the middle, whatever, they chose paths which have left them in a situation to resume normal activity and global interaction. We here in the US have chosen otherwise.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Sweden ends up overall in a cluster with other Euro nations. - Though per capita they're worse. - I feel like this discussion was more relevant when we the US was picking an avenue to run through to get to where they are. Go high, go low, through the middle, whatever, they chose paths which have left them in a situation to resume normal activity and global interaction. We here in the US have chosen otherwise.
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And people like to hold up sweden as an example but they are nothing like the USA.  The grand majority of people there understand they are part of a functioning society and are happy to take responsibility for protecting and ensuring that society does well.  

 
Bucsfan5493 said:
Hard to believe that there are a significant number of people out there who value having a slightly better economy more than protecting human lives.
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You know this thing isn't over right?

Sweden has 10 deaths in the last 5 days.  

Also I assume that you donate every single dollar of expendable income you have to children around the world for vaccines, hunger and other things right? I mean surely you wouldnt spend any money on black friday instead of saving human lives, right? Right????

 
parasaurolophus said:
Bucsfan5493 said:
Hard to believe that there are a significant number of people out there who value having a slightly better economy more than protecting human lives.
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You know this thing isn't over right?

Sweden has 10 deaths in the last 5 days.  
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Finland, Norway, and Denmark had 2 deaths combined in the past 5 days. Their combined death rate is 10% the death rate of Sweden.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
1.  Chalking you up to you didn't read the article.

2.  If doctors can diagnose without a test, why all the #####ing about lack of tests all summer long?
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Because there aren't enough doctors with enough time to do in person diagnosis on the scale/frequency needed. Also, initial diagnosis may be followed/verified by subsequent testing.

 
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Gr00vus said:
Because there aren't enough doctors with enough time to do in person diagnosis on the scale/frequency needed. Also, initial diagnosis may be followed/verified by subsequent testing.
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Agree that's why it's asinine to ask someone "You don't think a doctor is capable of diagnosing a disease without a test?" regarding covid when a doctor didn't diagnose the guy (incorrectly) in the first place?

 
Skoo said:
I think you mean 1 place counted 1 person as positive for COVID even though they hadn't tested positive.

According to the article you posted, anyway.
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According to guy from Mt Juliet (and yes Im well aware of Mt Juliet as well).

That article seems to amount to “I know a guy...”

 
Skoo said:
I think you mean 1 place counted 1 person as positive for COVID even though they hadn't tested positive.

According to the article you posted, anyway.
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1 place contacted 1 person several times thinking they were positive. He wasn't counted as the counts are based on lab results.

I'm guessing someone fat fingered the Positive COVID checkbox when entering data for contact tracing.

 
parasaurolophus said:
You know this thing isn't over right?

Sweden has 10 deaths in the last 5 days.  

Also I assume that you donate every single dollar of expendable income you have to children around the world for vaccines, hunger and other things right? I mean surely you wouldnt spend any money on black friday instead of saving human lives, right? Right????
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If we save ONE LIFE it's worth it.  Why do you want people to die?  Shame on you.

 
Sea Duck said:
Finland, Norway, and Denmark had 2 deaths combined in the past 5 days. Their combined death rate is 10% the death rate of Sweden.
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Sounds like they did great. Now lets compare Sweden to Italy, Spain and France. Lets do it again in a month and again in 6. Lets also examine educational progress in a couple years.

 
parasaurolophus said:
Sea Duck said:
Finland, Norway, and Denmark had 2 deaths combined in the past 5 days. Their combined death rate is 10% the death rate of Sweden.
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Sounds like they did great. Now lets compare Sweden to Italy, Spain and France. Lets do it again in a month and again in 6. Lets also examine educational progress in a couple years.
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Hey, way to cherry pick 2 of the 4 deadliest countries. :lol:

But Sweden did quite a bit worse than France (20% more deaths per capita).

 
parasaurolophus said:
Sounds like they did great. Now lets compare Sweden to Italy, Spain and France. Lets do it again in a month and again in 6. Lets also examine educational progress in a couple years.
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I have a better Idea. Why don’t you explain what you would like to see happen here? Because I still don’t understand the point you’re trying to make. 

 
A funny anecdote for those who aren't baseball fans.

9am - MLB announces Toronto Blue Jays will play home games this season at Pittsburgh's PNC Park.

3pm - State of Pennsylvania says, "Uhhh...no they aren't."

:lmao:

Nice work, MLB. Did you not think to ask the gov't first?

 
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