Government Response To The Coronavirus

[Snorkelson 4,080]

5 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

Those pretending Biden would have any clue what to do with this might be the funniest thing out of the echo chamber in the last 4 years. At least second to Russiaguys. 

Can’t do a whole lot worse can he?

[-jb- 959]

No clue what to do

[zftcg 3,688]

7 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

Those pretending Biden would have any clue what to do with this might be the funniest thing out of the echo chamber in the last 4 years. At least second to Russiaguys. 

Yeah, it's not like his top advisor successfully managed the Ebola outbreak or anything.

[sho nuff 16,559]

14 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

Those pretending Biden would have any clue what to do with this might be the funniest thing out of the echo chamber in the last 4 years. At least second to Russiaguys. 

Other than the playbook left by the previous administration and things out in place by the  administration he was VP for you mean?

I think he would have been much more likely to listen to science and experts than Trump was and wouldn't have played it off as some conspiracy against his re-election.

[Zigg 1,370]

Why is it so hard not to respond to obvious trolls?  At some point, you have to realize that it's not worth it, and keep the conversation relevant.  

[sho nuff 16,559]

So Trumps favorite Dr lady says Jesus is going to destroy facebook if her video wont go back up...

[The Commish 13,378]

3 hours ago, supermike80 said:

Just can't get behind the first thing we need to do is figure out what to shutdown.   Crazy man. 

I can't tell if you agree with me in this phrasing or not, but yeah...it's crazy how we can't get the testing necessary to figure out what to shut down.  We've opted for the "bull in the China shop" approach or "sledge hammer when a scalpel is prefered" approach.

[song 191]

11 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

The video, President Big Boy Pants walked out on the 2nd question.

yeah, in the comments way, way, down, (also further down a link to dr. immanuel speaking)  in the  person, alien, dna, demon, sperm link, 

a poster, commenting on what the state of trump's mind must be like, responded:

"the wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead"

i really like that, even though i'm not at all sure what that means.  it seems to leave itself open to interpretation,

like many of the best lyrics.

it just feels right. 

 

 

[msudaisy26 5,903]

2 hours ago, sho nuff said:

So Trumps favorite Dr lady says Jesus is going to destroy facebook if her video wont go back up...

That would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad. 

[Captain Cranks 4,619]

2 hours ago, Zigg said:

Why is it so hard not to respond to obvious trolls?  At some point, you have to realize that it's not worth it, and keep the conversation relevant.  

I've never understood it either.  1.  It's not like they're bringing good information to the table and 2. They're not interested in any information you're bringing, legitimate or not.  

Just assume a baseless remark that can never be proven and a laughing emoji and call it a day.  Responding does nothing but clog up the thread.  

Edited July 30, 2020 by Captain Cranks

[parasaurolophus 6,972]

3 hours ago, GoBirds said:

Those pretending Biden would have any clue what to do with this might be the funniest thing out of the echo chamber in the last 4 years. At least second to Russiaguys. 

I definitely think Biden would make plenty of mistakes. But the big difference is he would genuinely want to help the governors and this thing needed to be handled at the state level. 

[That one guy 2,123]

I know I’m late on this, but seriously, the line that confuses me most is “I don’t know what country she’s from” when no one asked

[joffer 12,265]

29 minutes ago, That one guy said:

I know I’m late on this, but seriously, the line that confuses me most is “I don’t know what country she’s from” when no one asked

I have a hand

someone puts phone in my hand

i press button

i see someone agreeing with me

i click retweet

whats the problem?

[The General 24,184]

5 hours ago, GoBirds said:

Those pretending Biden would have any clue what to do with this might be the funniest thing out of the echo chamber in the last 4 years. At least second to Russiaguys. 

When asked far more people in the country would trust Biden’s decision making on this over Trump. Not sure what to tell you.

[JPPT1974 3]

Look at countries everywere that are taken it seriously. But sadly the USA as really we need to do the same. But there are those that just sadly do not care and come as they please. Not fair for those with underlying conditions and elderly. As I have parents that have underlying conditions and in their late 60's and early 70's.

[OrtonToOlsen 17,820]

https://i.redd.it/7s0c34svovd51.jpg

[supermike80 1,430]

13 hours ago, moleculo said:

wait, what?

My post might not have been explained well. I don't want the first thing to come to my mind when discussing contact tracing is how can we use it to shut things down. 

[The Commish 13,378]

7 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

My post might not have been explained well. I don't want the first thing to come to my mind when discussing contact tracing is how can we use it to shut things down. 

Thanks....I don't think anyone does, but the reality is, given all the decisions made thus far, that's where we're at.  This constant conflation between "wanting to" and simply acknowledging the reality of where we are and what is NOW required because of decisions made is a bizarre one.  We have harped and harped and harped for more testing so we can have surgical like precision with shutdowns of individual businesses for a brief time.  I've stated my belief that a full shutdown was never necessary as long as we did the other things to keep that option of the table.  We did virtually none of those things.  As a result, here we are  

[supermike80 1,430]

13 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Thanks....I don't think anyone does, but the reality is, given all the decisions made thus far, that's where we're at.  This constant conflation between "wanting to" and simply acknowledging the reality of where we are and what is NOW required because of decisions made is a bizarre one.  We have harped and harped and harped for more testing so we can have surgical like precision with shutdowns of individual businesses for a brief time.  I've stated my belief that a full shutdown was never necessary as long as we did the other things to keep that option of the table.  We did virtually none of those things.  As a result, here we are  

Again, I don't think we should be targeting what to shut down.   That's the wrong approach.   We need to get past that.  Focus on better ways to protect not only peoples lives but their livelihoods as well.  

[The Gator 8,316]

5 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Again, I don't think we should be targeting what to shut down.   That's the wrong approach.   We need to get past that.  Focus on better ways to protect not only peoples lives but their livelihoods as well.  

This is why we are stuck in purgatory. 
 

We can’t protect livelihoods until/unless we protect peoples lives. It’s not an either/or scenario. 
 

We also tend to focus too much on the short term impacts without looking at the longterm impacts of our choices. Everything is about trying to satisfy our needs right now. 

[Snorkelson 4,080]

So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!

10:47 AM · Mar 9, 2020

Edited July 30, 2020 by Snorkelson
Our president

[The Commish 13,378]

43 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Again, I don't think we should be targeting what to shut down.   That's the wrong approach.   We need to get past that.  Focus on better ways to protect not only peoples lives but their livelihoods as well.  

It's the last resort unfortunately I'd much rather have the option to close a business here or there for a few days because we knew pretty confidently where things came from than have to close down entire industries in a city.  If we were at that point, I can't understand why that would be an issue to anyone honestly.

We can't rely on people to do the right thing on their own....that should be painfully obvious at this point.

Curious...if given the keys to the country for 3 months what would you do at this point?

Edited July 30, 2020 by The Commish

[Captain Cranks 4,619]

Imagine a bunch of kids were at a sleep over and playing Mike Tyson's Punchout.  Chang plays first and quickly figures out how to beat Soda Popinski.  Aiko steps up and follows the same pattern in beating Popinski.  Then Jonas follows the same pattern.  Then Giuseppe.  Finally, Jake checks in and while he starts with the same pattern the others used, decides he's got a better way.  His better way results in loss after loss.  Everyone in the room is like, "Jake, just do it the same way we did.  It's not that hard."  But Jake's a stubborn boy.  He's not going to be told what to do.  He's going to figure it out his own way.  Thus the rest of the boys sit back and watch Jake struggle with loss after loss.  

Why do we have to be Jake? 

[supermike80 1,430]

13 minutes ago, The Commish said:

It's the last resort unfortunately I'd much rather have the option to close a business here or there for a few days because we knew pretty confidently where things came from than have to close down entire industries in a city.  If we were at that point, I can't understand why that would be an issue to anyone honestly.

We can't rely on people to do the right thing on their own....that should be painfully obvious at this point.

Curious...if given the keys to the country for 3 months what would you do at this point?

I'd open everything up.   Require masks in public, further push the value of social distancing.  Ticket those that are involved in organizing or attending large gatherings.  Ticket those who do not wear a mask in public places. 

[The Gator 8,316]

2 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I'd open everything up.   Require masks in public, further push the value of social distancing.  Ticket those that are involved in organizing or attending large gatherings.  Ticket those who do not wear a mask in public places. 

These two concepts are in open conflict with each other.

 

[The Commish 13,378]

9 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I'd open everything up.   Require masks in public, further push the value of social distancing.  Ticket those that are involved in organizing or attending large gatherings.  Ticket those who do not wear a mask in public places. 

So...basically what's going on right now in Florida.  Do you think things are going ok here?  I really can't invision what things would look like if Disney, Universal, Performing Arts centers, nursing homes/long term care facilities were all open to the public at full capacity here in Florida.  My GUESS is it would be worse than what NYC saw, but I have no way of knowing that for sure.

[Mr. Ham 10,132]

37 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!

10:47 AM · Mar 9, 2020

Inexcusable. Unforgivable. In the US, this is the Trump Virus. GDP contracted last quarter by 1/3. Majority of that is on him, as are the majority of deaths.

Compare it to 911. You can point to failures to prevent the threat, but let’s excuse that. Some really bad people committed terrible acts that for for most were unthinkable. Imagine if Bush stubbornly refused to improve security, and 100 more planes crashed into hundreds more buildings, one per day. That’s seriously the equivalent of what we’re dealing with, and just partly why Trump is such an historically bad President.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Mr. Ham

[Rich Conway 3,574]

15 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I'd open everything up.   Require masks in public, further push the value of social distancing.  Ticket those that are involved in organizing or attending large gatherings.  Ticket those who do not wear a mask in public places. 

...and then, when a small outbreak occurs, you use testing and contact tracing to determine where it originated.  When it is determined that it started at, say, a daycare center, you shut down the center for 3 weeks and quarantine those who work there or attend the center.

[Mr. Ham 10,132]

Answer is clear, and realistic. But requires action, and leadership to push compliance.

100% mask use within 6 feet, with enforcement 

Free testing, ubiquitous 

Contact tracing, rigorous and electronic, in partnership with big tech and Telcos

Enforced quarantine of those with contact 

Immediate isolation of anyone testing positive, including from family 

That would do it. But we’re not doing it.

[moleculo 9,161]

1 hour ago, supermike80 said:

Again, I don't think we should be targeting what to shut down.   That's the wrong approach.   We need to get past that.  Focus on better ways to protect not only peoples lives but their livelihoods as well.  

I don't want there to be crime either.  I wish we could live in a world where we didn't need jails or police, and we could leave our doors unlocked.  Unfortunately, there are things in this world we don't like but we have to accept.  

If you have better ways to prevent transmission of the virus among a population that believes mask usage is a violation of natural rights, I'd love to hear it.

[The Gator 8,316]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Ham said:

Contact tracing, rigorous and electronic, in partnership with big tech and Telcos

I have the sense, that we are not ready for this aspect - that the current spread would overwhelm even the most robust/compliant contact tracing system.

I think contact tracing works well, when you have the virus under control, and you are looking to put out small flareups.

 

 

[supermike80 1,430]

26 minutes ago, The Commish said:

So...basically what's going on right now in Florida.  Do you think things are going ok here?  I really can't invision what things would look like if Disney, Universal, Performing Arts centers, nursing homes/long term care facilities were all open to the public at full capacity here in Florida.  My GUESS is it would be worse than what NYC saw, but I have no way of knowing that for sure.

Right..>Can't know.   

[Ramblin Wreck 13,835]

26 minutes ago, Mr. Ham said:

Inexcusable. Unforgivable. In the US, this is the Trump Virus. GDP contracted last quarter by 1/3. Majority of that is on him, as are the majority of deaths.

Compare it to 911. You can point to failures to prevent the threat, but let’s excuse that. Some really bad people committed terrible acts that for for most were unthinkable. Imagine if Bush stubbornly refused to improve security, and 100 more planes crashed into hundreds more buildings, one per day. That’s seriously the equivalent of what we’re dealing with, and just partly why Trump is such an historically bad President.

You've renamed the Chinese Virus the Trump Virus?  Weird

[supermike80 1,430]

7 minutes ago, moleculo said:

I don't want there to be crime either.  I wish we could live in a world where we didn't need jails or police, and we could leave our doors unlocked.  Unfortunately, there are things in this world we don't like but we have to accept.  

If you have better ways to prevent transmission of the virus among a population that believes mask usage is a violation of natural rights, I'd love to hear it.

Shutting down things doesn't do it.  You said it yourself.  You have people that don't listen.  Not only do they not wear masks, they aren't stopping congregating at large gatherings.  In homes and public places.

So punishing an honest business owner trying to make a living by following all the rules, because people are gathering at weddings and parties etc is the wrong approach in my opinion.  Now, LARGE things like sports and Disney etc? Well I can agree that might be a good idea.  But forcing the local hair salon to close is a bad idea.

[supermike80 1,430]

21 minutes ago, Mr. Ham said:

Answer is clear, and realistic. But requires action, and leadership to push compliance.

100% mask use within 6 feet, with enforcement 

Free testing, ubiquitous 

Contact tracing, rigorous and electronic, in partnership with big tech and Telcos

Enforced quarantine of those with contact 

Immediate isolation of anyone testing positive, including from family 

That would do it. But we’re not doing it.

From family?  And how are you gonna enforce that?  LOL  I love when we start to get to the silly ideas. Makes for a fun discussion.

 

[moleculo 9,161]

14 minutes ago, The Gator said:

I have the sense, that we are not ready for this aspect - that the current spread would overwhelm even the most robust/compliant contact tracing system.

I think contact tracing works well, when you have the virus under control, and you are looking to put out small flareups.

I agree, which is why I would issue a 21 day   stay at home and travel ban order for counties that are being hit hard.  I wouldn't do it at the national or even state level but certainly, any county that is getting slammed should be shut down.

To help with that, I would provide massive gov't assistance to residents of those counties - basically, 100% unemployment benefits, even for 1099 workers to encourage quarantine.  This stay-at-home would be much more restrictive - i.e. no home depot or walmart, and food by delivery only.  "essential worker" definition will be much more restrictive.  And, it would have a definite duration - 21 days.  

That should get the virus down to traceable levels.

Edited July 30, 2020 by moleculo

[gianmarco 27,956]

Keep America Great -- Here's 33 that countries have banned US travelers

ETA -- It's actually much more extensive.  Here is the list of places that US travelers are allowed to go to:

Antigua and Barbuda
Aruba
The Bahamas
Barbados
Belize
Bermuda
Croatia
The Dominican Republic
French Polynesia
Grenada (sort of)
Ireland (sort of)
Jamaica
Puerto Rico
The Maldives
Mexico
Rwanda
St Barths
St. Lucia
Saint Maarten
St. Vincent and the Grenadines
Seychelles
Turkey
Turks and Caicos
United Kingdom (sort of)
The U.S. Virgin Islands

Edited July 30, 2020 by gianmarco

[moleculo 9,161]

6 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Shutting down things doesn't do it.  You said it yourself.  You have people that don't listen.  Not only do they not wear masks, they aren't stopping congregating at large gatherings.  In homes and public places.

So punishing an honest business owner trying to make a living by following all the rules, because people are gathering at weddings and parties etc is the wrong approach in my opinion.  Now, LARGE things like sports and Disney etc? Well I can agree that might be a good idea.  But forcing the local hair salon to close is a bad idea.

that's because we never shut things down.  There was no enforcement and everyone knew it.

ETA: protests/riots restarts the 21 day clock.

Edited July 30, 2020 by moleculo

[The Commish 13,378]

12 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

39 minutes ago, The Commish said:

So...basically what's going on right now in Florida.  Do you think things are going ok here?  I really can't invision what things would look like if Disney, Universal, Performing Arts centers, nursing homes/long term care facilities were all open to the public at full capacity here in Florida.  My GUESS is it would be worse than what NYC saw, but I have no way of knowing that for sure.

Right..>Can't know.   

And the answer to the bold?

[supermike80 1,430]

13 minutes ago, The Commish said:

And the answer to the bold?

You're not gonna like my answer.   We need to do more to shield the vulnerable, but the spike in cases doesn't automatically mean we need to shut things down.  There is more and more evidence showing the cases can and are more mild than not.   

[song 191]

14 hours ago, Zigg said:

Why is it so hard not to respond to obvious trolls?  At some point, you have to realize that it's not worth it, and keep the conversation relevant.  

because it is worth it.

both the trolls and the responders want to fight, not have a relevant conversation.

it's pretty sad.

[Snorkelson 4,080]

22 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Shutting down things doesn't do it.  You said it yourself.  You have people that don't listen.  Not only do they not wear masks, they aren't stopping congregating at large gatherings.  In homes and public places.

So punishing an honest business owner trying to make a living by following all the rules, because people are gathering at weddings and parties etc is the wrong approach in my opinion.  Now, LARGE things like sports and Disney etc? Well I can agree that might be a good idea.  But forcing the local hair salon to close is a bad idea.

Republican leadership has continually downplayed the threat of this since day 1. Maybe if they had preached those things we were trying to do in April instead of saying everything is fine more people would have done these things. Granted we would still have some issues with this, but we wouldnt be arguing about action to address this pandemic.
 

I somewhat agree with your second paragraph, but I’ll make one point- take hair salons for example. There is a way to do that safely, with masks/gloves and can even put chairs outside, but the business as is poses a threat. We could maybe allow house calls, but that poses a risk to the employee (although they largely work for themselves).  It’s hard to tailor a response that works for each individual business, and people obviously have different ideas on whether this virus is even real, so it makes sense to just make it a blanket order and revise it as needed.  
To combat a pandemic it’s important to be proactive. We both live in michigan- we were a top 5 cv hotspot early on, and we have done pretty well imo to this point. Look at Florida and look at Michigan, compare how both have handled it, and tell me you’d rather have DeSantis leadership here. 

[supermike80 1,430]

16 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

Republican leadership has continually downplayed the threat of this since day 1. Maybe if they had preached those things we were trying to do in April instead of saying everything is fine more people would have done these things. Granted we would still have some issues with this, but we wouldnt be arguing about action to address this pandemic.
 

I somewhat agree with your second paragraph, but I’ll make one point- take hair salons for example. There is a way to do that safely, with masks/gloves and can even put chairs outside, but the business as is poses a threat. We could maybe allow house calls, but that poses a risk to the employee (although they largely work for themselves).  It’s hard to tailor a response that works for each individual business, and people obviously have different ideas on whether this virus is even real, so it makes sense to just make it a blanket order and revise it as needed.  
To combat a pandemic it’s important to be proactive. We both live in michigan- we were a top 5 cv hotspot early on, and we have done pretty well imo to this point. Look at Florida and look at Michigan, compare how both have handled it, and tell me you’d rather have DeSantis leadership here. 

Well I absolutely don't want Whitmer.  Her executive orders are haphazard and lack real thought.  Don't get me started on a Governor out, against her OWN executive order, protesting in public for BLM. So sorry, I am not a big fan of our current governor.  However I am not going to get into that debate here.

I have been consistent on this.  I do not agree that we should shut down businesses.  This mindset of save every life is short sighted and ONLY considers the response to a virus that is showing itself more and more to be less fatal as previously believed.  We overreacted.  I would counter and say if YOU are compromised, then YOU protect YOURSELF..Don't go to public places.  Social distance when you are around others.  Wear your mask.  Don't crush the business owners.

 

Also, the virus situation shouldn't be the ONLY measuring stick. When you say "we have done pretty well" I flat out disagree when we are looking at over 25% of people in the state unemployed.  Millions can't get enough food, millions are looking at a very likely chance of losing homes or apartments.  So the virus isn't the only thing I want to measure by, and I don't think it should be the only thing.

Edited July 30, 2020 by supermike80

[zftcg 3,688]

15 hours ago, Zigg said:

Why is it so hard not to respond to obvious trolls?  At some point, you have to realize that it's not worth it, and keep the conversation relevant.  

You're absolutely right. I think there's this instinctual need to dunk on stupid arguments, and I let myself get sucked in. But ultimately, you're not changing anyone's mind, all you're doing is causing the overuse of the laughing emoji. Best to put people like that on ignore.

[whoknew 8,711]

On 7/24/2020 at 1:32 PM, Sea Duck said:

Herman Cain has not been released from the hospital. It's been 23 days. His spokespeople have not provided an update since July 15th. His twitter account has been somewhat active, but it has not made any first-person statements. It mostly just retweets memes.

 

Reports out now that he has died.

RIP.

[supermike80 1,430]

8 minutes ago, zftcg said:

You're absolutely right. I think there's this instinctual need to dunk on stupid arguments, and I let myself get sucked in. But ultimately, you're not changing anyone's mind, all you're doing is causing the overuse of the laughing emoji. Best to put people like that on ignore.

I openly admit I partake in a fair amount of trolling here at times, I mean it is REALLY easy to do so.

However not in this thread.  My thoughts are genuine.

Edited July 30, 2020 by supermike80

[The General 24,184]

5 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I openly admit I partake in a fair amount of trolling here at times, I mean it is REALLY easy to do so.

However not in this thread.  My thoughts are genuine.

Sure.

[Snorkelson 4,080]

25 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Well I absolutely don't want Whitmer.  Her executive orders are haphazard and lack real thought.  Don't get me started on a Governor out, against her OWN executive order, protesting in public for BLM. So sorry, I am not a big fan of our current governor.  However I am not going to get into that debate here.

I have been consistent on this.  I do not agree that we should shut down businesses.  This mindset of save every life is short sighted and ONLY considers the response to a virus that is showing itself more and more to be less fatal as previously believed.  We overreacted.  I would counter and say if YOU are compromised, then YOU protect YOURSELF..Don't go to public places.  Social distance when you are around others.  Wear your mask.  Don't crush the business owners.

 

Also, the virus situation shouldn't be the ONLY measuring stick. When you say "we have done pretty well" I flat out disagree when we are looking at over 25% of people in the state unemployed.  Millions can't get enough food, millions are looking at a very likely chance of losing homes or apartments.  So the virus isn't the only thing I want to measure by, and I don't think it should be the only thing.

Michigan labor numbers

What numbers are you looking at?

She’s done well by your measures

[The General 24,184]

8 minutes ago, whoknew said:

Reports out now that he has died.

RIP.

Damn.

[zftcg 3,688]

34 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

You're not gonna like my answer.   We need to do more to shield the vulnerable, but the spike in cases doesn't automatically mean we need to shut things down.  There is more and more evidence showing the cases can and are more mild than not.   

Is that true? Not trying to troll, I'm genuinely curious. When Florida first started to see a spike in positive cases last month, I tried to withhold judgment based on the fact that the average age was much lower, so maybe we wouldn't see a corresponding spike in hospitalizations and deaths. But a month later, we're definitely seeing the increasing deaths (can't tell on hospitalizations because the state doesn't release the data, but we have seen that in other hot-spot states).

It is probably the case that the death rate is lower than it was in NY in the spring, due to some combination of lower average age as well as improved treatment protocols. And of course the fact that we're testing a broader range of people means that we're going to see a lot more asymptomatic cases (we had those a couple months ago, but we didn't even know those people were positive because they weren't being tested). But that doesn't mean that the virus has become any less dangerous.

So I agree with you that a spike in cases doesn't automatically mean we have to shut things down. But what I'm seeing over the past month seems to support the theory that this spike is just as worrisome as previous spikes.