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This is going to be a one off post because I don't want to get trolled or banned but if I were American, the context of Canada would be the biggest damning fact of how things have been handled in the

Australia has had months of little to no community spread and even then it was confined to one state. By and large Australians are running around doing the right thing, sport was and is still hap

I am confident we are going to hit >750K deaths.  I think it might be a million.  I don't post a ton but I'm an ER doc in a big city. This is by far the worse I've seen since the pandemic star

1 minute ago, dkp993 said:

Really liking Trump threatening to use EO to break the Congress BS partisan crap on Covid Unemployment and evictions.  

I haven’t followed..does he want to extend?

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1 minute ago, urbanhack said:

I haven’t followed..does he want to extend?

It’s light on details right now and only seems to be a threat but something needs to happen now and I’m glad he’s applying pressure.  
 

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/trump-considering-unilateral-action-stalemate-over-coronavirus-relief-195205588.html

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6 hours ago, dkp993 said:

Trump angry with his experts again (Dr. Birx this time) because they won’t toe the company line and say only what Trumps wants them to.  How dare they use their expertise to give advice to the general public (ie do their job).  

Such a dumb move, three months before the election.  He must be stubbornly insisting (although I doubt he's actually thinking this all through) that if he wins reelection, it will be on his terms.  That said, he keeps making attempts to message - pushing law and order; then sounding concerned about covid; etc.  But he's just so inherently incapable of adapting and/or maturing as a leader or, really, as a person.  Stick a fork in 'im.  It's over.

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13 hours ago, The Z Machine said:

Is he in the hospital or at serious risk right now?

Apparently he's ok, or at least the same as he was before getting the virus

>> Gohmert released a video statement on Twitter saying, "The reports of my demise are a great deal premature" and noted he was asymptomatic.

"I don't have any of the symptoms that are listed as part of Covid-19, but apparently I have the Wuhan virus," he said.

Before his diagnosis, Gohmert had told CNN in June that he didn't wear a mask because he had been tested and he didn't yet have the virus. "But if I get it, you'll never see me without a mask," he offered.

Told that health experts say that people who don't have symptoms may be carrying the virus and can unknowingly spread it to others, Gohmert responded: "But I keep being tested and I don't have it. So I'm not afraid of you, but if I get it I'll wear a mask." <<

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/08/03/politics/louie-gohmert-daughter-masks-coronavirus/index.html

In Gohmert's video he blames his getting the virus on wearing a mask, the last 10 days or so. Too much touching of the mask apparently. Even though multiple videos show him not wearing a mask while walking behind Barr and at various times. And he has a law degree from Baylor?

Edited by SoBeDad
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4 hours ago, dkp993 said:

It’s light on details right now and only seems to be a threat but something needs to happen now and I’m glad he’s applying pressure.  
 

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/trump-considering-unilateral-action-stalemate-over-coronavirus-relief-195205588.html

Well we better figure something out before he does something neither of our sides want.

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15 hours ago, dkp993 said:

It’s light on details right now and only seems to be a threat but something needs to happen now and I’m glad he’s applying pressure.  
 

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/trump-considering-unilateral-action-stalemate-over-coronavirus-relief-195205588.html

Is the bolded not how he "governs" generally?  So this is no different, right?

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12 minutes ago, bananafish said:

Trump's Axios interview was on last night: 

https://www.axios.com/full-axios-hbo-interview-donald-trump-cd5a67e1-6ba1-46c8-bb3d-8717ab9f3cc5.html?utm_campaign=organic&utm_medium=socialshare&utm_source=twitter

 

The last time I questioned Trump's intelligence I received a 3-month timeout for "trolling" so I'll just let the video speak for itself.

The man has to go. Not in November or January. Now.

that was the most bat#### insane thing i've ever watched

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I did not vote for Trump in 2016.  I will not vote for Trump in 2020.  This administration could have shown more leadership socially on how to approach the virus.  They did present a plan for states to follow as they opened.  States didn't follow that plan.  Citizens didn't follow that plan.  Some of this can be laid at his feet, but all of it?  Come on.  Take some responsibility for yourselves and your own actions. 

As far as a response to this virus on an economic level?  The CARES Act and the Families First Coronavirus Response Act have impacted me and my business directly and are fantastic stimulus bills.  I received PPP funding quickly.  It allowed my business to reopen.  I have received additional stimulus funding today, deposited directly, after applying on 7/20.  These bills have allowed me to keep all of my employees.  Those employees all collected unemployment with additional federal funding during our closure and have all received federal stimulus payments.  

I know this is where we trash Trump, but these positive contributions cannot be denied.    Biden wouldn't have handled this any better.  Nobody could have prepared for this.

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11 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

I did not vote for Trump in 2016.  I will not vote for Trump in 2020.  This administration could have shown more leadership socially on how to approach the virus.  They did present a plan for states to follow as they opened.  States didn't follow that plan.  Citizens didn't follow that plan.  Some of this can be laid at his feet, but all of it?  Come on.  Take some responsibility for yourselves and your own actions. 

As far as a response to this virus on an economic level?  The CARES Act and the Families First Coronavirus Response Act have impacted me and my business directly and are fantastic stimulus bills.  I received PPP funding quickly.  It allowed my business to reopen.  I have received additional stimulus funding today, deposited directly, after applying on 7/20.  These bills have allowed me to keep all of my employees.  Those employees all collected unemployment with additional federal funding during our closure and have all received federal stimulus payments.  

I know this is where we trash Trump, but these positive contributions cannot be denied.    Biden wouldn't have handled this any better.  Nobody could have prepared for this.

on a scale from 1 to 10.  How would rate the administration's handling of the Covid situation?

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12 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

I did not vote for Trump in 2016.  I will not vote for Trump in 2020.  This administration could have shown more leadership socially on how to approach the virus.  They did present a plan for states to follow as they opened.  States didn't follow that plan.  Citizens didn't follow that plan.  Some of this can be laid at his feet, but all of it?  Come on.  Take some responsibility for yourselves and your own actions. 

As far as a response to this virus on an economic level?  The CARES Act and the Families First Coronavirus Response Act have impacted me and my business directly and are fantastic stimulus bills.  I received PPP funding quickly.  It allowed my business to reopen.  I have received additional stimulus funding today, deposited directly, after applying on 7/20.  These bills have allowed me to keep all of my employees.  Those employees all collected unemployment with additional federal funding during our closure and have all received federal stimulus payments.  

I know this is where we trash Trump, but these positive contributions cannot be denied.    Biden wouldn't have handled this any better.  Nobody could have prepared for this.

good post although it won't be received here very well by most.  too much hate.

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How can people say Biden or Hillary would not have handled this any differently?  Mind boggling.  I mean any other president would have given this more serious attention and than just saying it's going to magically disappear at some point. That's it...that's been the ####### strategy of the Trump admin....are you kidding me????

 

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13 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

I did not vote for Trump in 2016.  I will not vote for Trump in 2020.  This administration could have shown more leadership socially on how to approach the virus.  They did present a plan for states to follow as they opened.  States didn't follow that plan.  Citizens didn't follow that plan.  Some of this can be laid at his feet, but all of it?  Come on.  Take some responsibility for yourselves and your own actions. 

As far as a response to this virus on an economic level?  The CARES Act and the Families First Coronavirus Response Act have impacted me and my business directly and are fantastic stimulus bills.  I received PPP funding quickly.  It allowed my business to reopen.  I have received additional stimulus funding today, deposited directly, after applying on 7/20.  These bills have allowed me to keep all of my employees.  Those employees all collected unemployment with additional federal funding during our closure and have all received federal stimulus payments.  

I know this is where we trash Trump, but these positive contributions cannot be denied.    Biden wouldn't have handled this any better.  Nobody could have prepared for this.

Few things...the positives you added are nice.  But to credit Trump for that is somewhat odd.  That was congresses doing.

As for Biden...not sure why anyone thinks a guy more likely to listen to science wouldn't have done better.  A guy whose administration laid out a plan after H1N1...a plan this administration threw out the window and ignored.  the Obama/Biden administration held training for Trump's incoming people on such scenarios...seems he would have been better prepared for such a thing and followed then plan early on and not denied its severity for so long.   I think there are quite a few ways like this that are pretty easy to show he would have done better and handled it better.

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12 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

   Biden wouldn't have handled this any better.  Nobody could have prepared for this.

I liked everything you wrote until this.  I disagree with this tremendously.  Biden would have done better.  Hillary would have done better.  Obama would have done better.  Romney would have done better. George Bush (both of them) would have done better.  Etc.

 

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2 minutes ago, joffer said:

on a scale from 1 to 10.  How would rate the administration's handling of the Covid situation?

I try to be objective.  Economically?  10 out of 10.  His social response?  Putting out his plan for reopening and then punting to the states?  1 out of 10.  So, 5.5?

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1 minute ago, Juxtatarot said:

I liked everything you wrote until this.  I disagree with this tremendously.  Biden would have done better.  Hillary would have done better.  Obama would have done better.  Romney would have done better. George Bush (both of them) would have done better.  Etc.

 

I voted for Obama twice and think he would have done better.  I think Biden is a dope.  Socially, yes, I wish it would have been handled differently, but like I said people have to take some of the responsibility themselves. 

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6 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

Laugh it up.  That's the response I expected.  :shrug:

All due respect, nearly every other first world nation has handled this better than the US.  We had significant advantages (time, oceans, tighter borders, opp to learn from their successes and failures, deeper pockets, etc.) and we squandered ALL of those advantages with science denial and wishful thinking.  I am glad it has worked out for you, your company and your employees...but to say no one could have done a better job when nearly every other first world country HAS done a better job (and done so with fewer advantages) is silly and worthy of a laughing emoji response.  Now, having said that I truly dislike the deployment of the sarcastic laughing emoji and instead wish Joe and team would add a thumbs down emoji instead so the people could express disagreement more productively.  But that's a diff issue.

Thx for listening and good luck.

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5 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

How can people say Biden or Hillary would not have handled this any differently?  Mind boggling.  I mean any other president would have given this more serious attention and than just saying it's going to magically disappear at some point. That's it...that's been the ####### strategy of the Trump admin....are you kidding me????

 

I'm not going to defend Trump.  Don't respect him and think he's an embarrassment.  The administration attacked this thing.  They were on TV every day doing press conferences.  Trying to get PPE and materials where they needed to go.  Unfortunately Trump opens his mouth and everyone rolls their eyes instead of actually paying attention to some of the good things that were done. 

They could have done more.  Sure.  They put out an elaborate plan for reopening states.  I read it.  I was ready to get my business back to work.  People ignored it. 

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4 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

I try to be objective.  Economically?  10 out of 10.  His social response?  Putting out his plan for reopening and then punting to the states?  1 out of 10.  So, 5.5?

ok thanks.  by his plan, i kind of remember Trump telling to states to open up way before they met the guidelines of his "plan"

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4 minutes ago, Morton Muffley said:

All due respect, nearly every other first world nation has handled this better than the US.  We had significant advantages (time, oceans, tighter borders, opp to learn from their successes and failures, deeper pockets, etc.) and we squandered ALL of those advantages with science denial and wishful thinking.  I am glad it has worked out for you, your company and your employees...but to say no one could have done a better job when nearly every other first world country HAS done a better job (and done so with fewer advantages) is silly and worthy of a laughing emoji response.  Now, having said that I truly dislike the deployment of the sarcastic laughing emoji and instead wish Joe and team would add a thumbs down emoji instead so the people could express disagreement more productively.  But that's a diff issue.

Thx for listening and good luck.

No responsibility falls at the feet of the citizens here?  How powerful do you think Donald Trump really is?  He's a poor leader.  I agree with that, but people need to think for themselves occasionally. 

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Just now, Grahamburn said:

No responsibility falls at the feet of the citizens here?  How powerful do you think Donald Trump really is?  He's a poor leader.  I agree with that, but people need to think for themselves occasionally. 

agree, we have handled it bad, and so has President "its just gonna disappear".  leadership starts at the top.  if he had taken it more seriously, GOP governors would have taken it more seriously, conservatives would have taken it more seriously, and so on.

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6 minutes ago, joffer said:

ok thanks.  by his plan, i kind of remember Trump telling to states to open up way before they met the guidelines of his "plan"

I shouldn't say "his" plan.  It obviously wasn't his.  The point is nobody followed it. 

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1 hour ago, Grahamburn said:

...

I know this is where we trash Trump, but these positive contributions cannot be denied.    Biden wouldn't have handled this any better.  Nobody could have prepared for this.

There literally was a pandemic plan from the Obama/Biden administration.  Team Trump ripped it up and pulled CDC watchdogs from China in 2018.

We were prepared.  The Trump administration unprepared us.  Don't tell me nobody could have prepared for this.

Edited by moleculo
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5 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

No responsibility falls at the feet of the citizens here?  How powerful do you think Donald Trump really is?  He's a poor leader.  I agree with that, but people need to think for themselves occasionally. 

:goodposting:

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2 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

I shouldn't say "his" plan.  It obviously wasn't his.  The point is nobody followed it. 

he encouraged the states to open early

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33 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

I did not vote for Trump in 2016.  I will not vote for Trump in 2020.  This administration could have shown more leadership socially on how to approach the virus.  They did present a plan for states to follow as they opened.  States didn't follow that plan.  Citizens didn't follow that plan.  Some of this can be laid at his feet, but all of it?  Come on.  Take some responsibility for yourselves and your own actions. 

As far as a response to this virus on an economic level?  The CARES Act and the Families First Coronavirus Response Act have impacted me and my business directly and are fantastic stimulus bills.  I received PPP funding quickly.  It allowed my business to reopen.  I have received additional stimulus funding today, deposited directly, after applying on 7/20.  These bills have allowed me to keep all of my employees.  Those employees all collected unemployment with additional federal funding during our closure and have all received federal stimulus payments.  

I know this is where we trash Trump, but these positive contributions cannot be denied.    Biden wouldn't have handled this any better.  Nobody could have prepared for this.

Look at other places besides us.  This is completely untrue.  

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1 minute ago, Grahamburn said:

I shouldn't say "his" plan.  It obviously wasn't his.  The point is nobody followed it. 

Trump actively encouraged states to not follow the plan.  No one followed it because Trump told them not to.

LIBERATE MICHIGAN!

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2 minutes ago, moleculo said:

Trump actively encouraged states to not follow the plan.  No one followed it because Trump told them not to.

LIBERATE MICHIGAN!

I must have quit watching the news at this point. 

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16 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

Sure.  They put out an elaborate plan for reopening states.  I read it.  I was ready to get my business back to work.  People ignored it. 

Which Trump was tweeting against less then 14 hours after they put the plan out there. You can always tell when Trump is reading something that someone wrote that he doesn't really believe.  

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5 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Look at other places besides us.  This is completely untrue.  

So all of the people who decided to go to bars, have parties, go out to eat, not wear masks, not social distance, and do all of the things we now know we aren't supposed to do during a pandemic...  Those people all would have complied if we had a different leader?  You really think this is happening here basically because "Trump said so."

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32 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

No responsibility falls at the feet of the citizens here?  How powerful do you think Donald Trump really is?  He's a poor leader.  I agree with that, but people need to think for themselves occasionally. 

I have a Kubrickian view of humanity, so you won't find me giving people a pass at all.  But we were talking about Trump and what HE could have done better.  As a business leader surely you recognize what a leadership lay up this was, right?  Unite people behind a common cause that no one* is blaming you for. I bet most national leaders have seen their favorability numbers rise since the pandemic began.  Dont know that to be true, but that'd be my guess.  Maybe I'll investigate when I'm not wildly speculating on provable facts that I haven't bothered to look into!  Fyi, that's a shot entirely at me, so please dont read anything into it other than a self-own :)

 

*hyperbole obviously - as there are always a small percentage of wackos who would likely claim he invented the pandemic in the basement of a DC pizza parlor.  

Edited by Morton Muffley
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14 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

No responsibility falls at the feet of the citizens here?  How powerful do you think Donald Trump really is?  He's a poor leader.  I agree with that, but people need to think for themselves occasionally. 

people thinking for themselves leads to public gatherings and refusal to wear a mask.

Don't get me wrong - people absolutely should think for themselves, but there is so much junk science and fake news out there these days that the message becomes incredibly blurred.  It would help tremendously if the man with the bully pulpit could stay on message.

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Just now, Grahamburn said:

So all of the people who decided to go to bars, have parties, go out to eat, not wear masks, not social distance, and do all of the things we now know we aren't supposed to do during a pandemic...  Those people all would have complied if we had a different leader?  You really think this is happening here basically because "Trump said so."

If you don't think there isn't a significant portion of the population for which this is true, you haven't been paying attention

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19 minutes ago, Morton Muffley said:

I have a Kubrickian view of humanity, so you won't find me giving people a pass at all.  But we were talking about Trump and what HE could have done better.  As a business leader surely you recognize what a leadership lay up this was, right?  Unite people behind a common cause that no one* is blaming you for. I bet most national leaders have seen their favorability numbers rise since the pandemic began.  Dont know that to be true, but that'd be my guess.  Maybe I'll investigate when I'm wildly speculating on provable facts that I haven't bothered to look into!  Fyi, that's a shot entirely at me so please dont read anything into it other than a self-own :)

 

*hyperbole obviously - as there are always a small percentage of wackos who would likely claim he invented the pandemic in the basement of a DC pizza parlor.  

My initial post was trying to focus on the economic positives.  That part at the end has everyone riled up.  I personally think the people in this country are the problem. 

Edited by Grahamburn
the "m" word
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Just now, Grahamburn said:

My initial post was trying to focus on the economic positives.  That part at the end has everyone riled up.  I personally think the people in this country are the problem.  Trump is a political moron and horrendous leader, but it's not his fault there are a lot of other morons living here too. 

would an earlier and more rigorous response prevented some of the economic hardship?

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14 minutes ago, moleculo said:

FYI, be careful with that "m" word, it's likely to lead to a suspension.

That said, I agree. Trump is a symptom, not a cause.

Gotcha.  Thanks.  I don't spend much time here...

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14 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

My initial post was trying to focus on the economic positives.  That part at the end has everyone riled up.  I personally think the people in this country are the problem.  Trump is a political moron and horrendous leader, but it's not his fault there are a lot of other morons living here too. 

I agree that the stimulus package was impressive.  I am also a liberal business leader who thought the wall street bail out was necessary, however distasteful.  So, on that we agree...although am not sure how much credit Trump should get for that.  Leadership is what I am mainly focused on: empathy, consistency, clarity, inspiration.  Those are the elements of leadership I focus on and I just can't give Trump passing grades on any of those elements as they relate to the pandemic.  What I see is a guy who planned to run on the economy and saw the pandemic as a false choice between health and economy.  He made a bad choice early on and has doubled down on that bad choice every day since.

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44 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

I voted for Obama twice and think he would have done better.  I think Biden is a dope.  Socially, yes, I wish it would have been handled differently, but like I said people have to take some of the responsibility themselves

The bolded is where the responsibility of Trump is most obvious, setting the example.  A huge portion of his supporters are very devoted, had Trump pushed for, supported and shown personally that masks help, that this was a serious threat, etc I believe he would have moved the needle with large portions of this group. His flippant attitude and downplaying of this from the start feed the poor response by many.  

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