Government Response To The Coronavirus

[Grahamburn 2,061]

15 minutes ago, joffer said:

would an earlier and more rigorous response prevented some of the economic hardship?

I was thinking about this the other day... My business was forced to close on 3/20/20 because we provide elective procedures.  I'm in Florida.  We had 131 cases that day in the entire state.  131!  That seems rigorous to me.  We re-opened on 5/1 with 1,038 cases in the state.  We continue to be open with ten times that now. 

The initial reaction in many areas was an over reaction in my opinion.  We shut everything down too soon, which caused a lot of unnecessary economic hardship, and then opened everything up too soon to alleviate it.     

[Grahamburn 2,061]

Just now, dkp993 said:

The bolded is where the responsibility of Trump is most obvious, setting the example.  A huge portion of his supporters are very devoted, had Trump pushed for, supported and shown personally that masks help, that this was a serious threat, etc I believe he would have moved the needle with large portions of this group. His flippant attitude and downplaying of this from the start feed the poor response by many.  

Possibly.  If Hillary would have been elected wouldn't those same people be stomping their feet and lighting masks with her face on them on fire?

[Ranethe 1,700]

52 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

How can people say Biden or Hillary would not have handled this any differently?  Mind boggling.  I mean any other president would have given this more serious attention and than just saying it's going to magically disappear at some point. That's it...that's been the ####### strategy of the Trump admin....are you kidding me????

 

It’s absurd. “Nobody could have prepared for this”. Well, true, except for the people who did, including GWB, and if you ignore everything the Obama administration actually prepared for.

Its even more absurd to say “nobody could have prepared for this” when the current POTUS actively sabotaged our ability to respond. Encouraging states to ignore the feds own guidelines, pushing bogus miracle cures, etc. 

I guess as long as “I got mine” the response was sufficient.

Just a difference of opinion I guess.

[The Commish 13,635]

52 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

I try to be objective.  Economically?  10 out of 10.  His social response?  Putting out his plan for reopening and then punting to the states?  1 out of 10.  So, 5.5?

He didn't just "punt to the states"...he had his "guidelines" printed then immediately proceeded to take a massive dump on them in public.  Sorry....actions always speak louder than words.  Always have, always will.  I'd have a different view had he thrown out the guidelines then constantly repeated them over and over admonishing those who went against them and praising those who followed them.  Instead, he admonished those following them and made no comment about those not following them.

[dkp993 6,999]

1 minute ago, Grahamburn said:

Possibly.  If Hillary would have been elected wouldn't those same people be stomping their feet and lighting masks with her face on them on fire?

Almost certainly, good point.  But she wasn’t, he was, and he could have had a much bigger impact. 

[Grahamburn 2,061]

Having a plan and being able to implement are two different things.  If Obama were President and his administration went about implementing their plan the people opposed to him would have rejected it on principle and we'd still be in this mess.  It doesn't help to be prepared if the country isn't unified toward one common goal.

Quote

I guess as long as “I got mine” the response was sufficient.

This part is short sighted.  I didn't post that to humble brag.  I have 50 employees.  They're able to come to work and take care of their families because of the economic stimulus packages approved by this administration, and those packages were presented and implemented quickly.  I was amazed how well the process worked in my experience. 

I've posted in responses that I do not agree with Trump's response to the virus socially.

 

[Skoo 7,482]

Sorry, but this whole "we couldn't have done better" idea is completely obliterated by looking at the rest of the civilized world.

We're still the richest, most powerful country in the history of the world. There's no reason we couldn't do at least as well as others with less resources have done.

[Grahamburn 2,061]

3 minutes ago, Skoo said:

Sorry, but this whole "we couldn't have done better" idea is completely obliterated by looking at the rest of the civilized world.

We're still the richest, most powerful country in the history of the world. There's no reason we couldn't do at least as well as others with less resources have done.

We could have done significantly better, but Americans aren't willing to, regardless of who is in office. 

[Gr00vus 11,923]

1 hour ago, Grahamburn said:

I did not vote for Trump in 2016.  I will not vote for Trump in 2020.  This administration could have shown more leadership socially on how to approach the virus.  They did present a plan for states to follow as they opened.  States didn't follow that plan.  Citizens didn't follow that plan.  Some of this can be laid at his feet, but all of it?  Come on.  Take some responsibility for yourselves and your own actions. 

As far as a response to this virus on an economic level?  The CARES Act and the Families First Coronavirus Response Act have impacted me and my business directly and are fantastic stimulus bills.  I received PPP funding quickly.  It allowed my business to reopen.  I have received additional stimulus funding today, deposited directly, after applying on 7/20.  These bills have allowed me to keep all of my employees.  Those employees all collected unemployment with additional federal funding during our closure and have all received federal stimulus payments.  

I know this is where we trash Trump, but these positive contributions cannot be denied.    Biden wouldn't have handled this any better.  Nobody could have prepared for this.

He failed to provide adequate funding, guidance and implementation for expanded testing and contact tracing. Those two things had already been proven as critical components of successful mitigation strategies in other countries. He failed to enforce appropriate contact limitation - i.e. shutting things down - which was also already proven as a critical component of successful mitigation strategies in other countries. He failed to support and enforce wearing of masks in public, another measure already proven as a critical component of successful mitigation strategies in other countries. He proceeded to attempt an indoor campaign rally in which they encouraged the participation of thousands of individuals - the exact opposite of what you should be doing in these circumstances.

Congress had more to do with providing you your emergency funding than he did - they came up with and passed the legislation. You can give him credit for signing off.

You can't separate what you're calling the "social" response from the economic response. Social distancing is necessary to reduce the impact of the virus to the greatest extent possible. You're suffering a very confused outlook on how this works in saying things were shut down too soon. Things needed to be shut down as soon as possible, and needed to remain shut down as long as necessary to reduce the spread of the virus. Trump failed to provide leadership and enforcement of that, except for about 3 days around issuing guidelines. That failure has worsened the economic impact of the virus by extending and exacerbating the spread of the virus.

Trump has failed in handling this in just about every way possible. You should do a little more research on how that is before attempting to draw the conclusions you're asserting.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Gr00vus

[BigJim® 1,060]

1 hour ago, Grahamburn said:

This administration could have shown more leadership socially on how to approach the virus.  They did present a plan for states to follow as they opened.  States didn't follow that plan.  Citizens didn't follow that plan.  Some of this can be laid at his feet, but all of it?  Come on.  Take some responsibility for yourselves and your own actions. 

I know this is where we trash Trump, but these positive contributions cannot be denied.    Biden wouldn't have handled this any better.  Nobody could have prepared for this.

Is this an accurate depiction of history? Kinda, sorta, but not paying much attention to mixed messaging? It's accurate that the administration came up with guidelines. It's also accurate to say POTUS tweeted "Free Michigan" in contradiction of the guidelines within hours. I'm not sure states have a chance when the federal messaging promotes protesting against its own guidelines. 

I do agree that civilized society should not need to be told how to stay safe. One of the huge obstacles was safety being framed as over-reactive at best, and symbolic of a political traitor at worst. Still a personal choice one must own, but not a choice being made in a vacuum by any stretch.   

I don't agree Biden would not have handled better. In a million years he would not have called this a hoax and cultivated that narrative. He would not have pimped miracle drugs. More likely, he would have done what Trump has been unable to do - that is capitalize on a national emergency to show leadership, even if some harm was unavoidable. I do think our political dysfunction has gotten to the point that one party would undermine any hopes of getting through this in a united way, not wanting to have the opposing party be successful.

I'm glad prior CARES Act helped your business. Personally, I think it needed to be integrated with a messaging of real change to be of any longer term benefit (e.g. ensuring income over 90 days was the perfect rationale to shut down a la other countries who got beyond 1st wave). In going about life as usual, we essentially just worked our way toward more substantial need.  

Edited August 4, 2020 by BigJim®

[Skoo 7,482]

8 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

We could have done significantly better, but Americans aren't willing to, regardless of who is in office. 

Sorry, but there's literally no way you could know that. It's your opinion.

Let's stick with the facts.

The fact is that we have more resources than anyone, and still managed to fail worse than basically anyone.

[Grahamburn 2,061]

10 minutes ago, Skoo said:

Sorry, but there's literally no way you could know that. It's your opinion.

Let's stick with the facts.

The fact is that we have more resources than anyone, and still managed to fail worse than basically anyone.

And that falls at the feet of the President alone? 

We're also the land of the free, and we act like it.  We are a selfish culture by nature.  We, as a nation, are as much to blame as anyone.  If we have failed here because we blindly followed a clearly incompetent President then who is truly to blame?  The shepherd or his sheep?

[Gr00vus 11,923]

1 minute ago, Grahamburn said:

And that falls at the feet of the President alone? 

We're also the land of the free, and we act like it.  We are a selfish culture by nature.  We, as a nation, are as much to blame as anyone.  If we have failed here because we blindly followed a clearly incompetent President then who is truly to blame?  The shepherd or his sheep?

Both. Or at least the President and those that blindly follow him.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Gr00vus

[Grahamburn 2,061]

1 minute ago, Gr00vus said:

Both. Or at least the President and those that blindly follow him.

And if he weren't President who would they follow? 

[Biff84 2,859]

Claiming Biden wouldn’t have done any better is the most shortsighted things anyone can say. Not only has he said what he would have done differently but he’s also stated what he would have done going forward to control it. Sure some of that is MMQBing but he’s made said what his plans in real time. As others have mentioned, he was part of an administration that dealt with pandemics and created a pandemic response plan that was ignored.

It’s not like it would be all on him either. All he would have to do is let the health experts lead the way and the response would have been many times better.

You also bring up the reopening plans the administration made and you’re right the states didn’t follow them. But do you think Trump helped or hurt the efforts of states to follow those guidelines. I believe that it was the next day that he tweeted support for protestors to liberate their states. What did he do to punish the states who didn’t follow the guidelines? Did he threaten to cut funding? No he did that when he tried to force states to reopen churches and schools against the guidelines. He was the biggest opponent to the guidelines, so please don’t claim that’s in the win column for him.

It’s perfectly fine to appreciate the things the administration has done especially if it’s helped you and your business out. But dismissing that Biden wouldn’t have done any better is nothing more than poorly formed opinion.

[joffer 12,400]

5 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

And that falls at the feet of the President alone? 

We're also the land of the free, and we act like it.  We are a selfish culture by nature.  We, as a nation, are as much to blame as anyone.  If we have failed here because we blindly followed a clearly incompetent President then who is truly to blame?  The shepherd or his sheep?

alone? no.  at least partly?  absolutely

Edited August 4, 2020 by joffer

[Mookie 2,491]

Blame the American people - love it.

A national lockdown in March would've worked - We'd be in the same position as Europe.  Most people were on board back then.  It was a national crisis.

Consistent and clear messaging would have helped.  We would all see the benefit of masks, social distancing, hygiene. 

Taking charge of the supply chain for ventilators and PPE would've helped save lives.

Instead, the federal government and Republican leadership did nothing.  They denied the science.  They claimed it was a hoax.  They denied any responsibility. They pushed hydoxychlorine and drinking bleach.  They foisted their responsibility on state and local governments, which resulted in a patchwork quilt of mixed messages and inconsistent policies, but allowed them to take credit for the successes and deny responsibility for the failures.  So the virus spreads and our President can only say "It is what it is" when 155,000 Americans are dead.

Even now, they refuse to wear masks.  They see social distancing as a joke.  They demand that schools re-open but lack any plan.  They STILL claim the virus is a hoax and liberal conspiracy, and cling to their Facebook memes to save them in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence.  This has never been a political issue, but the President and Republican leadership all over the Country has made it political, all to our great and continuing detriment.    

    

[Gr00vus 11,923]

16 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

And if he weren't President who would they follow? 

I have no idea. Tucker Carlson? Rush Limbaugh? I don't really understand the relevance of your question. Perhaps a better question is, why have a President then? Ostensibly he is the leader of the executive branch of this country, and also this country's most highly situated governmental representative. Is your assertion that we shouldn't have such an office, or that the office is really just a figurehead? Are you suggesting President has no power to set agendas, plan and execute at a national level, and that the President does not have the expectation and responsibility to do so capably? That the President's words, decisions, actions don't have far reaching consequences? Consider HHS/CDC. Those are federal organizations within the executive branch, and thus ultimately the responsibility of the President. Those organizations have a strong logical connection to and a significant impact on mitigating a pandemic within this country. Do you find Trump's leadership in regard to those organizations satisfactory in this instance?

There's a high proportion of credulous people in this country, as much as we'd like that not to be true. Our current President knows this and trades on it, nearly daily. Understanding that, and not using that power plus the power of the office itself to provide clear guidance and effective action in mitigating this crisis is an abject failure as President. As such he bears a huge amount of culpability in our country's inadequate response to this crisis.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Gr00vus

[Grahamburn 2,061]

3 minutes ago, Mookie said:

Blame the American people - love it.

I don't know who else to blame.  Take Trump out.  Put someone else in.  The virus is still here.  The same people who continue to refuse to wear masks, refuse to social distance, continue going to bars, continue partying, having their weddings, deny the science and count on Jesus to save them.  All of them still exist.

Put Biden in.  I've listened to his plan for this.  As far as I can tell it isn't drastically different than what the Trump administration has done.  Outside of acting like a fool on Twitter or behind the podium. 

Obama was a fantastic leader.  His response to this would have been great.  I wish he would have been in office during this.  People hated him though, and they would have done the opposite of what his recommendations were out of spite.

I'll leave with that.  This isn't a fight anyone can win. 

[Rich Conway 3,915]

19 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

And if he weren't President who would they follow? 

Sean Hannity.

[the moops 6,755]

1 hour ago, Grahamburn said:

We could have done significantly better, but Americans aren't willing to, regardless of who is in office. 

We didn't even really try though. If Trump had used his executive power to force states to take this seriously, and had provided them with the necessary testing capabilities, and they refused to follow? Then yes, we could not lay any blame at Trump's feet. But when you read his quotes on the pandemic, I am unsure how any reasonable person could assume that he acted no differently than any other hypothetical president would

[Don't Noonan 5,722]

2 hours ago, urbanhack said:

How can people say Biden or Hillary would not have handled this any differently?  Mind boggling.  I mean any other president would have given this more serious attention and than just saying it's going to magically disappear at some point. That's it...that's been the ####### strategy of the Trump admin....are you kidding me????

 

This post shows you have no idea what you are talking about.  Were you against the Cares Act?  You hated PPP?  You didn't like Trump banning travel early from other countries when Biden and Pelosi criticized him for it and then admitted it was right?

[Mookie 2,491]

29 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

I don't know who else to blame.  Take Trump out.  Put someone else in.  The virus is still here.  The same people who continue to refuse to wear masks, refuse to social distance, continue going to bars, continue partying, having their weddings, deny the science and count on Jesus to save them.  All of them still exist.

Put Biden in.  I've listened to his plan for this.  As far as I can tell it isn't drastically different than what the Trump administration has done.  Outside of acting like a fool on Twitter or behind the podium. 

Obama was a fantastic leader.  His response to this would have been great.  I wish he would have been in office during this.  People hated him though, and they would have done the opposite of what his recommendations were out of spite.

I'll leave with that.  This isn't a fight anyone can win. 

Our federal government failed us because they made it about politics and denied the science.  A coordinated national response would have resulted in far fewer infections and far fewer deaths.  Would the virus still be here - sure, but it would not be this widespread and we could control outbreaks when they happen.  At this point, there's no way of controlling it and we are stuck hoping for mass vaccinations - that's our only strategy. 

[Don't Noonan 5,722]

50 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

Claiming Biden wouldn’t have done any better is the most shortsighted things anyone can say. Not only has he said what he would have done differently but he’s also stated what he would have done going forward to control it. Sure some of that is MMQBing but he’s made said what his plans in real time. As others have mentioned, he was part of an administration that dealt with pandemics and created a pandemic response plan that was ignored.

It’s not like it would be all on him either. All he would have to do is let the health experts lead the way and the response would have been many times better.

You also bring up the reopening plans the administration made and you’re right the states didn’t follow them. But do you think Trump helped or hurt the efforts of states to follow those guidelines. I believe that it was the next day that he tweeted support for protestors to liberate their states. What did he do to punish the states who didn’t follow the guidelines? Did he threaten to cut funding? No he did that when he tried to force states to reopen churches and schools against the guidelines. He was the biggest opponent to the guidelines, so please don’t claim that’s in the win column for him.

It’s perfectly fine to appreciate the things the administration has done especially if it’s helped you and your business out. But dismissing that Biden wouldn’t have done any better is nothing more than poorly formed opinion.

No, Biden would have been worse.  When asked what he would have done he just listed a bunch of things that Trump already did.    

[Grahamburn 2,061]

14 minutes ago, the moops said:

We didn't even really try though. If Trump had used his executive power to force states to take this seriously, and had provided them with the necessary testing capabilities, and they refused to follow? Then yes, we could not lay any blame at Trump's feet. But when you read his quotes on the pandemic, I am unsure how any reasonable person could assume that he acted no differently than any other hypothetical president would

Other potential hypothetical Presidents would have handled it better. Themselves. I’m not sure our results as a country would have been much different considering the behavior of our citizens. 

[the moops 6,755]

2 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

Other potential hypothetical Presidents would have handled it better. Themselves. I’m not sure our results as a country would have been much different considering the behavior of our citizens. 

OK - that is fair

[The Commish 13,635]

So wait....."Biden would have been worse" because he listed a bunch of things that Trump did but Trump handled them wonderfully?  Pretty much sums up the "sides" issue  in this country...we aren't even putting bait on the hook anymore are we?    

[Dickies 9,332]

1 hour ago, Grahamburn said:

We could have done significantly better, but Americans aren't willing to, regardless of who is in office. 

Send in the goon squad to rough up all the people not sheltering in place.

[sho nuff 16,923]

2 hours ago, joffer said:

would an earlier and more rigorous response prevented some of the economic hardship?

Exactly...to claim he handled this well  economically is also pretty odd.

[sho nuff 16,923]

1 hour ago, Mookie said:

Blame the American people - love it.

A national lockdown in March would've worked - We'd be in the same position as Europe.  Most people were on board back then.  It was a national crisis.

Consistent and clear messaging would have helped.  We would all see the benefit of masks, social distancing, hygiene. 

Taking charge of the supply chain for ventilators and PPE would've helped save lives.

Instead, the federal government and Republican leadership did nothing.  They denied the science.  They claimed it was a hoax.  They denied any responsibility. They pushed hydoxychlorine and drinking bleach.  They foisted their responsibility on state and local governments, which resulted in a patchwork quilt of mixed messages and inconsistent policies, but allowed them to take credit for the successes and deny responsibility for the failures.  So the virus spreads and our President can only say "It is what it is" when 155,000 Americans are dead.

Even now, they refuse to wear masks.  They see social distancing as a joke.  They demand that schools re-open but lack any plan.  They STILL claim the virus is a hoax and liberal conspiracy, and cling to their Facebook memes to save them in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence.  This has never been a political issue, but the President and Republican leadership all over the Country has made it political, all to our great and continuing detriment.    

    

Spot on...

[sho nuff 16,923]

20 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

No, Biden would have been worse.  When asked what he would have done he just listed a bunch of things that Trump already did.    

This was already show to be a false claim in another thread.

[Marauder 467]

13 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

Other potential hypothetical Presidents would have handled it better. Themselves. I’m not sure our results as a country would have been much different considering the behavior of our citizens. 

You don't think the President doesn't have any influence on the behavior of his supporters?  Of course he does.  If Trump and the Democratic leaders were singing from the same songbook on things as simple as the importance of wearing a mask and social distancing, I believe it would have had a huge effect.

[John Blutarsky 3,676]

6 minutes ago, Dickies said:

Send in the goon squad to rough up all the people not sheltering in place.

Is that the goon squad that riots, causes damage and loots businesses?

[Don't Noonan 5,722]

2 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

This was already show to be a false claim in another thread.

False, quit spreading falsehoods please.  Thank you.

[Green Balloons 496]

"We couldn't have done any better" sound familiar to anyone?  Say after every mass shooting in the US?

[Green Balloons 496]

1 hour ago, Mookie said:

Blame the American people - love it.

A national lockdown in March would've worked - We'd be in the same position as Europe.  Most people were on board back then.  It was a national crisis.

Consistent and clear messaging would have helped.  We would all see the benefit of masks, social distancing, hygiene. 

Taking charge of the supply chain for ventilators and PPE would've helped save lives.

Instead, the federal government and Republican leadership did nothing.  They denied the science.  They claimed it was a hoax.  They denied any responsibility. They pushed hydoxychlorine and drinking bleach.  They foisted their responsibility on state and local governments, which resulted in a patchwork quilt of mixed messages and inconsistent policies, but allowed them to take credit for the successes and deny responsibility for the failures.  So the virus spreads and our President can only say "It is what it is" when 155,000 Americans are dead.

Even now, they refuse to wear masks.  They see social distancing as a joke.  They demand that schools re-open but lack any plan.  They STILL claim the virus is a hoax and liberal conspiracy, and cling to their Facebook memes to save them in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence.  This has never been a political issue, but the President and Republican leadership all over the Country has made it political, all to our great and continuing detriment.    

    

Yep

[Lutherman2112 2,129]

"I got mine."

[Grahamburn 2,061]

37 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Exactly...to claim he handled this well  economically is also pretty odd.

How so? Not him, necessarily, but the administration. Working together with Congress. 

[killface 2,429]

2 hours ago, Mookie said:

Blame the American people - love it.

A national lockdown in March would've worked - We'd be in the same position as Europe.  Most people were on board back then.  It was a national crisis.

Consistent and clear messaging would have helped.  We would all see the benefit of masks, social distancing, hygiene. 

Taking charge of the supply chain for ventilators and PPE would've helped save lives.

Instead, the federal government and Republican leadership did nothing.  They denied the science.  They claimed it was a hoax.  They denied any responsibility. They pushed hydoxychlorine and drinking bleach.  They foisted their responsibility on state and local governments, which resulted in a patchwork quilt of mixed messages and inconsistent policies, but allowed them to take credit for the successes and deny responsibility for the failures.  So the virus spreads and our President can only say "It is what it is" when 155,000 Americans are dead.

Even now, they refuse to wear masks.  They see social distancing as a joke.  They demand that schools re-open but lack any plan.  They STILL claim the virus is a hoax and liberal conspiracy, and cling to their Facebook memes to save them in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence.  This has never been a political issue, but the President and Republican leadership all over the Country has made it political, all to our great and continuing detriment.    

    

Spot on

[Rich Conway 3,915]

33 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

How so? Not him, necessarily, but the administration. Working together with Congress. 

Well, we can start with the fact that the House passed a bill three months ago and the GOP Senate has yet to pass one, much less begin negotiations with the House.  We could add that the GOP Senate and the administration have been fighting over what should be included in the Senate bill.  We could consider that the failed health aspects of the administration's response exacerbated the economic toll.  We could consider that the administration expressly refused to allow Congressional oversight of its handling of the money allocated in the previous bill, and we continue to learn in dribs and drabs how poorly it has been handled.  There's lots more...

[BigJim® 1,060]

26 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

How so? Not him, necessarily, but the administration. Working together with Congress. 

As of today, I don't think we know the economic fallout. It could be the right play was to take our proverbial medicine, really shut down for a period of time, and then where we stand now might have been legit recovery with a manageable plan to address spurts of covid. Going the path we took may have been penny wise and pound foolish... that's TBD, but suspect it to be true. Speaking for myself, I have no plans to go out shopping, restaurants, bars, travel, etc. Something dramatic would have to happen for that mindset to change in 2021. Not worth it... I get by just fine staying in. I expect that many businesses will continue to struggle now that covid can't be controlled in a way to foster consumer re-engagement.  

[Gr00vus 11,923]

1 hour ago, Grahamburn said:

How so? Not him, necessarily, but the administration. Working together with Congress. 

Just as an example, last week, we had reports that the Trump administration is struggling to plan for handling vaccine production and administration. At this point, since the Administration failed to push, fund, support test and trace, mask wearing, social distancing, our hopes for a return to normalcy depend on the development and distribution of a vaccine. In other words, our economic well being is heavily tied to a successful roll out of the vaccine. And this administration doesn't seem to be doing what's needed to be successful. And this very much is something that is the responsibility of a limited set of people and organizations. Facilitating a roll out of the vaccine on the scale needed is not something each of us bears direct responsibility for. And Trump seems to be failing at this as he has with everything else related to handling this crisis.

For just another example, looking back, the lack of oversight and coordination at the Federal Executive level in regard to resources like tests, masks, ventilators, etc. is astounding and resulted in mass inefficiency as states competed against states for resources, driving the costs up on everybody (and ultimately on ourselves as taxpayers). Again, this illustrates massive failure this Administration has been in regard to handling this crisis.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Gr00vus

[sho nuff 16,923]

1 hour ago, Grahamburn said:

How so? Not him, necessarily, but the administration. Working together with Congress. 

The stimulus stuff was good...our economy though?  How was it handled well?  GDP,  jobs...what part was handled well and how?

[sho nuff 16,923]

51 minutes ago, Rich Conway said:

Well, we can start with the fact that the House passed a bill three months ago and the GOP Senate has yet to pass one, much less begin negotiations with the House.  We could add that the GOP Senate and the administration have been fighting over what should be included in the Senate bill.  We could consider that the failed health aspects of the administration's response exacerbated the economic toll.  We could consider that the administration expressly refused to allow Congressional oversight of its handling of the money allocated in the previous bill, and we continue to learn in dribs and drabs how poorly it has been handled.  There's lots more...

And that too...

[sho nuff 16,923]

48 minutes ago, BigJim® said:

As of today, I don't think we know the economic fallout. It could be the right play was to take our proverbial medicine, really shut down for a period of time, and then where we stand now might have been legit recovery with a manageable plan to address spurts of covid. Going the path we took may have been penny wise and pound foolish... that's TBD, but suspect it to be true. Speaking for myself, I have no plans to go out shopping, restaurants, bars, travel, etc. Something dramatic would have to happen for that mindset to change in 2021. Not worth it... I get by just fine staying in. I expect that many businesses will continue to struggle now that covid can't be controlled in a way to foster consumer re-engagement.  

This as well.

[urbanhack 12,396]

https://www.medtechdive.com/news/house-panel-finds-trump-admin-bungled-philips-ventilator-deal-overpaid-by/582758/

[gianmarco 28,486]

It is what it is.

[Gr00vus 11,923]

I mean, look, if Trump had just done the Trump thing, printed up a slew of bright red MAGA masks, worn one of those himself, and sold them, this thing would have gone significantly differently for the better. That's right in his wheelhouse, it's a friggin Apprentice episode for goodness sake, and he couldn't even do that. That's how big a failure he's been at this.

[Gr00vus 11,923]

He could have just listened to his advisors/CDC, been like, o.k. let's do more like what South Korea is doing, less like what Italy is doing. Don't tell anyone where he got the ideas, just market the hell out of it to his base, limit the damage, claim victory, take all the credit. Someone had done the homework for him already, he just needed to slap his name on it. Some how he couldn't pull it off.

I'm sorry to go on and on, but the scope of failure it's been in this case on his part is a maddening collection of needless errors. If he'd done the above, we're looking like the rest of the world in terms of effects and recovery, the guy's a hero (just let him tell you so) and he's probably well on his way to a 2nd term. Of course there'd also be the side benefit of a lot less death and injury for the U.S. So frustrating.

[Dickies 9,332]

27 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

I mean, look, if Trump had just done the Trump thing, printed up a slew of bright red MAGA masks, worn one of those himself, and sold them, this thing would have gone significantly differently for the better. That's right in his wheelhouse, it's a friggin Apprentice episode for goodness sake, and he couldn't even do that. That's how big a failure he's been at this.

I admit I would have ripped him for profiteering off the virus, but we would be in a much better place had he done this.  His followers would have all gotten right in line with their red masks.