Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Government Response To The Coronavirus


Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, Dickies said:

I admit I would have ripped him for profiteering off the virus, but we would be in a much better place had he done this.  His followers would have all gotten right in line with their red masks.

Yep, he could have made it a patriotic statement, he could have owned it and make it work to his advantage - the whole thing. He even started out that way, saying this was a war, and he's a war time President. I thought we had a chance then, he'd make this his 9/11 (I mean he's pals with Rudy for goodness sake! He made his name on now he handled that crisis and is still living off it). We might get governmental overreach, but the path to coping as successfully as possible was pretty clear, and he could sell it pretty easily.

But somehow he went the other way. I firmly believe most of what he does beyond a very surface level of cognition is dictated by whoever he currently trusts to advise him. Someone somewhere who has his ear is really leading him in the wrong direction on this, the question I have is why - what do they have to gain by it? I'm afraid the answer lies in Russia, but we'll never be sure.

Edited by Gr00vus
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 25.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

This is going to be a one off post because I don't want to get trolled or banned but if I were American, the context of Canada would be the biggest damning fact of how things have been handled in the

Australia has had months of little to no community spread and even then it was confined to one state. By and large Australians are running around doing the right thing, sport was and is still hap

I am confident we are going to hit >750K deaths.  I think it might be a million.  I don't post a ton but I'm an ER doc in a big city. This is by far the worse I've seen since the pandemic star

1 hour ago, Gr00vus said:

Yep, he could have made it a patriotic statement, he could have owned it and make it work to his advantage - the whole thing. He even started out that way, saying this was a war, and he's a war time President. I thought we had a chance then, he'd make this his 9/11 (I mean he's pals with Rudy for goodness sake! He made his name on now he handled that crisis and is still living off it). We might get governmental overreach, but the path to coping as successfully as possible was pretty clear, and he could sell it pretty easily.

But somehow he went the other way. I firmly believe most of what he does beyond a very surface level of cognition is dictated by whoever he currently trusts to advise him. Someone somewhere who has his ear is really leading him in the wrong direction on this, the question I have is why - what do they have to gain by it? I'm afraid the answer lies in Russia, but we'll never be sure.

The sadly ironic part was that his poll numbers had turned as well at the time and he could have continued that movement.  
 

I don’t know if it was so much greed as just incompetence.  We’re basically to third and forth stringers in the West Wing and it’s not like the first stringers were that great.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Sammy3469 said:

The sadly ironic part was that his poll numbers had turned as well at the time and he could have continued that movement.  
 

I don’t know if it was so much greed as just incompetence.  We’re basically to third and forth stringers in the West Wing and it’s not like the first stringers were that great.  

I'm not sure I agree. He got good recommendations on how to handle this relatively early on from sources within the executive branch. He chose, deliberately, not to follow those recommendations or not make them stick once issued. That's not on the people way down the food chain, that's on him and his inner circle. All they had to do was go along with the recommendations, somehow he got pushed into doing almost the opposite - tough for me to pin that on incompetence, there had to be reasons to push him that way.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Biff84 said:

Claiming Biden wouldn’t have done any better is the most shortsighted things anyone can say. Not only has he said what he would have done differently but he’s also stated what he would have done going forward to control it. Sure some of that is MMQBing but he’s made said what his plans in real time. As others have mentioned, he was part of an administration that dealt with pandemics and created a pandemic response plan that was ignored.

It’s not like it would be all on him either. All he would have to do is let the health experts lead the way and the response would have been many times better.

You also bring up the reopening plans the administration made and you’re right the states didn’t follow them. But do you think Trump helped or hurt the efforts of states to follow those guidelines. I believe that it was the next day that he tweeted support for protestors to liberate their states. What did he do to punish the states who didn’t follow the guidelines? Did he threaten to cut funding? No he did that when he tried to force states to reopen churches and schools against the guidelines. He was the biggest opponent to the guidelines, so please don’t claim that’s in the win column for him.

It’s perfectly fine to appreciate the things the administration has done especially if it’s helped you and your business out. But dismissing that Biden wouldn’t have done any better is nothing more than poorly formed opinion.

I seem to remember the Dems claiming racism when Trump announced the China travel ban.

It's an easy call to say what you would have done after it has happened, but  I have no pretense of objective rational in these forums at all.  Here let me help you:   It is Trump's fault, it's all Trump's fault.  Hope that helps.

Carry on like you carry on.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, shadrap said:

I seem to remember the Dems claiming racism when Trump announced the China travel ban.

It's an easy call to say what you would have done after it has happened, but  I have no pretense of objective rational in these forums at all.  Here let me help you:   It is Trump's fault, it's all Trump's fault.  Hope that helps.

Carry on like you carry on.

We didn't need to wait until "after it has happened" we had a 2-3 month lead time, with ample, well documented, obvious examples of various approaches to handling this from around the world. It wasn't a mystery to be solved, people basically knew what worked and what didn't . Trump, for whatever reasons, did not incorporate that information, did not apply the lessons learned, into what he put into play, as evidenced by the actions of the Administration. That's an objective, rational conclusion to be drawn from what happened.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Gr00vus said:

We didn't need to wait until "after it has happened" we had a 2-3 month lead time, with ample, well documented, obvious examples of various approaches to handling this from around the world. It wasn't a mystery to be solved, people basically knew what worked and what didn't . Trump, for whatever reasons, did not incorporate that information, did not apply the lessons learned, into what he put into play, as evidenced by the actions of the Administration. That's an objective, rational conclusion to be drawn from what happened.

I don't believe you are right.  I don't have the time or energy right now but if you take a look when the CDC or whatever world organization actually figured out that this was a pandemic we acted.

could be wrong.

adios

Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, shadrap said:

I don't believe you are right.  I don't have the time or energy right now but if you take a look when the CDC or whatever world organization actually figured out that this was a pandemic we acted.

could be wrong.

adios

You're wrong. :shrug:

We had seen how China dealt with it and the result, we had seen how South Korea had dealt with it and the result. The models were out there, their effectiveness was in evidence.  When it was obvious we had a global pandemic, we were 2-3 months behind them. We included some lessons learned in eventual recommendations, we implemented none of it at the Federal level. That's what happened, it's not really debatable. Look into it further if you don't remember the timeline. Doing so doesn't leave room for interpretation about the effectiveness of the Federal response to this crisis. It's been about as bad as it could have been, in the face of multiple examples of how to and how not to deal with the virus. 

Edited by Gr00vus
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
  • Love 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, shadrap said:

I seem to remember the Dems claiming racism when Trump announced the China travel ban.

It's an easy call to say what you would have done after it has happened, but  I have no pretense of objective rational in these forums at all.  Here let me help you:   It is Trump's fault, it's all Trump's fault.  Hope that helps.

Carry on like you carry on.

So Biden would've denied that the virus was real, or that it would disappear, or would go away when it got warm. or claim it was a liberal hoax, or tell you to ingest disinfectant? 

Doing away with the pandemic response agency certainly didn't help.  Gutting the CDC and FDA didn't help.  Undermining Fauci and putting out mere "guidelines" didn't help.  Putting Jared in charge didn't help.  Royally screwing up, and even hindering, the development of tests didn't help.  The China ban did absolutely nothing to stop the virus, which can be established because of the extent to which the virus has spread in the US.  Now, it's us who can't travel anywhere because we've screwed this up so badly.  

And before you play the "Thank you Captain Hindsight" card, consider that we had models to follow.  China slowed their spread.  South Korea too.  It was a known fact that national quarantines worked.  Masks worked.  Testing and contact tracing worked.  Even in May, we knew that national quarantines in Europe were working, but what did we do?  Nothing - It was too late, and we had all of these pockets of infection in places that didn't lock down.  So now we are stuck fending for ourselves and letting this awful virus run its course, just praying for a magic vaccine.  It was so simple, and all it required was effective leadership that let the scientists drive the bus.  What we got was a clown car.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think the US was 2-3 months behind Italy or any western country.  More like 4 weeks at the most, but I think only 3 weeks.

South Korea, Japan, and Singapore showed the way, but there's no way to implement these strategies in the US - too much central governmental action and restriction of privacy / rights. However, lots could have been done to enable coordination between federal and state actors and private industry.

Yet, the actions put in place as cases were ramping and thereafter really tell the story here on the failure.  This is where the US diverges from its western peers. And that's 100% on Trump IMO.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

I don't think the US was 2-3 months behind Italy or any western country.  More like 4 weeks at the most, but I think only 3 weeks.

South Korea, Japan, and Singapore showed the way, but there's no way to implement these strategies in the US - too much central governmental action and restriction of privacy / rights. However, lots could have been done to enable coordination between federal and state actors and private industry.

Yet, the actions put in place as cases were ramping and thereafter really tell the story here on the failure.  This is where the US diverges from its western peers. And that's 100% on Trump IMO.

You're right about Italy. Their spike peaked in March, the first U.S. spike culminated in April.

The telling thing, in that graph, is that Italy had just the one ramp up. They seemed to have learned and implemented something we've failed to do, even though we had a couple of weeks lead time on them.

Edited by Gr00vus
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, shadrap said:

I don't believe you are right.  I don't have the time or energy right now but if you take a look when the CDC or whatever world organization actually figured out that this was a pandemic we acted.

could be wrong.

adios

Maybe you can also defend this?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-pandemic-team-cut-video_n_5e70db03c5b63c3b6485325d

Quote

 

Trump explicitly denied any responsibility for mishandling the COVID-19 crisis at a news conference on Friday, where he told PBS reporter Yamiche Alcindor he didn’t “know anything about” his former national security adviser’s elimination of the White House global health security team.

Instead, he called Alcindor’s question “nasty” and moved on. 

“I just think it’s a nasty question,” Trump said. “When you say ‘me,’ I didn’t do it ... You say we did that, I don’t know anything about it.” 

He did do it. And there’s video of him discussing his justification last month. (Watch it above.)

“I’m a business person,” the president said in a Feb. 26 White House press briefing. “I don’t like having thousands of people around when you don’t need them.” 

“Some of the people we’ve cut they haven’t been used for many, many years, and if we ever need them we can get them very quickly and rather than spending the money.”

 

So here he admits to cutting the pandemic response team because he is running the government like a business which is fundamental flaw in the trump support logic.  

Edited by urbanhack
  • Thinking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

This is interesting. Swedish epidemiologist does second about face on mask (no pun intended).  On June 25ish, he said they were reconsidering masks. No he’s saying that there’s no need because their cases are decreasing rapidly right now. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/amp/

 

ETA apologies if old news 

Edited by -jb-
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Gr00vus said:

He could have just listened to his advisors/CDC, been like, o.k. let's do more like what South Korea is doing, less like what Italy is doing. Don't tell anyone where he got the ideas, just market the hell out of it to his base, limit the damage, claim victory, take all the credit. Someone had done the homework for him already, he just needed to slap his name on it. Some how he couldn't pull it off.

I'm sorry to go on and on, but the scope of failure it's been in this case on his part is a maddening collection of needless errors. If he'd done the above, we're looking like the rest of the world in terms of effects and recovery, the guy's a hero (just let him tell you so) and he's probably well on his way to a 2nd term. Of course there'd also be the side benefit of a lot less death and injury for the U.S. So frustrating.

Are Trump's followers the only demographic spreading the virus?

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, joffer said:

“I’m pretty sure I’m right but I’m not interested in checking to confirm it” is good shtick

One of my favorites.  Along with I cant link from my phone.  

  • Laughing 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Gr00vus said:

I'm not sure I agree. He got good recommendations on how to handle this relatively early on from sources within the executive branch. He chose, deliberately, not to follow those recommendations or not make them stick once issued. That's not on the people way down the food chain, that's on him and his inner circle. All they had to do was go along with the recommendations, somehow he got pushed into doing almost the opposite - tough for me to pin that on incompetence, there had to be reasons to push him that way.

I'm not talking about down the foodchain, but rather the Meadows, Pompeo, Barr, Wolf, Azar, Devos, etc and then advisers like Lighthozer's of the world.  There's a big chunk of just outright incompetence in that his closest advisers.    

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, The Gator said:

There is a certain irony, that there has been more activity in this thread, than actual government response to the coronavirus.

Lol.  Every time I read the thread title I think "what government response?"

And for the literalists on the board, that's hyperbole.  I know there has been a government response (stimulus, ventilator production, testing, re-opening guidelines...not to mention our cornering the market on hydroxychloroquine), I just don't think it has been as substantive, proactive, coordinated, and consistent as it should have been.

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

What percentage of college voters are D vs R?

Anyway, I am not sure what your point was anyway.  

Probably small sample alert, but talking to the kids at the store going to college soon, there was not one of them that were not going somewhere that had some pretty strict rules as a whole.  From online only to masks on at all times in the dorms and nobody besides your roommate can be in your dorm room etc..  NOW I am sure that there will be kids breaking those rules, but the point is that at least the college tried to lay down rules and set guidelines.  You know, leadership.   

Maybe there are colleges elsewhere - (the kids here are going to NY, Minn, WI, IA, and Indiana) that don't have guidelines, and I would be interested to see where those are.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

I'm sure all these college anti-maskers are highly conservative trump guys, amirite? 

There are a lot of college aged anti-maskers?  

I am never going to say "all" to any statement like that.  I am sure there are people who don't want to wear a mask from all walks of life.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Grahamburn said:

Are Trump's followers the only demographic spreading the virus?

No. That has nothing to do with the post you're replying to, which was about the failure of this Administration in handling this crisis.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

No. That has nothing to do with the post you're replying to, which was about the failure of this Administration in handling this crisis.

I think I lumped that one in with the MAGA red mask plan that got 10 likes. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Grahamburn said:

I think I lumped that one in with the MAGA red mask plan that got 10 likes. 

That was an example of how Trump could have lead more effectively. I've mentioned lots of other ways that were non-partisan. As a leader, you use what techniques and leverage you can to accomplish what is needed for those you lead. Trump seems incapable of that in this crisis.

As the point of this thread is government response to the virus, maybe you could start another thread about the individual's response to the virus?

  • Like 1
  • Thinking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

That was an example of how Trump could have lead more effectively. I've mentioned lots of other ways that were non-partisan. As a leader, you use what techniques and leverage you can to accomplish what is needed for those you lead. Trump seems incapable of that in this crisis.

As the point of this thread is government response to the virus, maybe you could start another thread about the individual's response to the virus?

No problem.  I'm ready to move on anyway.  My intent was just to show how the stimulus bills positively impacted me, my business, and my employees.

You'll get no argument from me on how poor the leadership of this administration has been.   

Link to post
Share on other sites

Trump pushes the claim that children are "almost immune" to make his case: "My view is the school's should open. This thing's going away. It will go away like things go away." So this morning he's said "this thing's going away" and "it will go by." This is where we're at.

Again, this is the strategy...which is nothing.  What a president.

  • Like 4
  • Laughing 1
  • Sad 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Grahamburn said:

No problem.  I'm ready to move on anyway.  My intent was just to show how the stimulus bills positively impacted me, my business, and my employees.

You'll get no argument from me on how poor the leadership of this administration has been.   

I'm actually encouraging you to start that thread, as your point is valid - as a people, as individuals, we've failed in handling this crisis too. Talking about that, figuring out if/how we could improve in that area is worthwhile. Maybe even more worthwhile than throwing darts at this administration, as ultimately we elect these people, their failure is our failure from a certain perspective.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

Trump pushes the claim that children are "almost immune" to make his case: "My view is the school's should open. This thing's going away. It will go away like things go away." So this morning he's said "this thing's going away" and "it will go by." This is where we're at.

Again, this is the strategy...which is nothing.  What a president.

It is what it is.

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

Trump pushes the claim that children are "almost immune" to make his case: "My view is the school's should open. This thing's going away. It will go away like things go away." So this morning he's said "this thing's going away" and "it will go by." This is where we're at.

Again, this is the strategy...which is nothing.  What a president.

Eventually he'll be mostly right. It's just a question of how many needless deaths result from and how many peoples' long term health is needlessly compromised by the virus before "it goes by".

Edited by Gr00vus
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

Trump pushes the claim that children are "almost immune" to make his case: "My view is the school's should open. This thing's going away. It will go away like things go away." So this morning he's said "this thing's going away" and "it will go by." This is where we're at.

Again, this is the strategy...which is nothing.  What a president.

"It will go away" <> strategy. Except to this administration.

He's done with it folks. He's admitted as much on the call with the Senator in the restaurant that was put on speakerphone, not to mention his actions (or lack thereof).

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Grahamburn said:

And that falls at the feet of the President alone? 

We're also the land of the free, and we act like it.  We are a selfish culture by nature.  We, as a nation, are as much to blame as anyone.  If we have failed here because we blindly followed a clearly incompetent President then who is truly to blame?  The shepherd or his sheep?

Why do you think shepherds exist? Maybe because the sheep can't be trusted to do the right thing on their own?

  • Like 2
  • Thinking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Grahamburn said:

I didn't vote for the guy.  Over half the country did though.  They can't all be dumb. 

Lots of smart people voted for Trump because they believed some combination of "he'll surround himself with competent conservatives", "he'll start acting presidential once he wins" and/or "who cares about Family Values or the dignity of the office or the reputation of the party or the stability of the country, I want my conservative judges!"

Only the latter reason remains. It's nihilism in political form.

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Lots of smart people voted for Trump because they believed some combination of "he'll surround himself with competent conservatives", "he'll start acting presidential once he wins" and/or "who cares about Family Values or the dignity of the office or the reputation of the party or the stability of the country, I want my conservative judges!"

Only the latter reason remains. It's nihilism in political form.

"we believez in NOTHING lebowski"

Edited by CentralPA
  • Like 1
  • Love 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Grahamburn said:

I didn't vote for the guy.  Over half the country did though.  They can't all be dumb. 

What?

 

He got about 63m votes in a country who's pop is 328m.  

In fact Romney got more individual votes in his loss to Obama in 2012.   And Hillary got more in 2016.  

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Grahamburn said:

I didn't vote for the guy.  Over half the country did though.  They can't all be dumb. 

new math?

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, shadrap said:

I seem to remember the Dems claiming racism when Trump announced the China travel ban.

It's an easy call to say what you would have done after it has happened, but  I have no pretense of objective rational in these forums at all.  Here let me help you:   It is Trump's fault, it's all Trump's fault.  Hope that helps.

Carry on like you carry on.

Probably the best thing he did but even that was half-assed. It still allowed US citizens and permanent residents to return to the tune of 26,000 people in just February with only limited efforts to quarantine them when they arrived back.

  • Like 1
  • Thinking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...