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Government Response To The Coronavirus (7 Viewers)

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Why wouldn’t the leaders already be using this strategy?  Is it possible they already thought through it and it wouldn’t work?
obviously, my answer here is a guess since i don't sit in on meetings with the decision-makers at the State or County: 

implementing the suggestions i outlined above would require granular evaluation of a complex situation and with the C-19 numbers we are seeing in CA  time is of the essence. issuing blanket directives saves time, but at the expense of business owners and their employees (and again, i'm speaking specifically to the restaurant/service industry). the restaurants and businesses who are compliant with the Outdoor Only directives have in many cases spent hundreds, if not thousands of dollars to improve and upgrade their facilities to adhere to the safety protocols so they can  accommodate and serve guests who choose to visit their establishment. and this goes beyond just materials and labor for construction, it also includes getting permits issued by various agencies, training staff on best practices, marketing and outbound messaging to guests (remember: everything in CA is "by appointment" or "by reservation" for those following the rules) to keep them up-to-date with regard to new guidelines being issued on a seemingly daily basis, and deal with the uncertainty and chaos this causes. 

and to use a specific to prove a generality: back in late-May before The Re-Opening orders were issued for CA, i sat in on a webinar hosted by the Wine Institute who was providing info on what we might expect to see in terms of guidelines for a re-opening. in a nutshell, they noted that restaurants were going to be green-lit for "dine in" service during Phase I (remember the simpler times, where we had Phases?) while wineries, breweries, and distilleries were not. wineries, my industry, were going to be allowed to open only if the following criteria was met: 

1) provide outdoor service only (no indoor tastings)

2) provide alcohol in conjunction with a meal

3) sell alcohol at the end of the experience [and of course social distancing in place, masks, cleaning, the usual]

now, that sounds reasonable considering we were still learning about C-19 and how it was being spread. but here's the rub: there was no definition of what constituted a "meal" and the ABC and local agencies provided vague language at best. as the webinar progressed and the hosts started taking questions, they revealed the Dept. of Health pushed for the "wine with a meal" provision and left it intentionally vague because they didn't want people coming to Wine Country yet for wine tasting. They believed people would be so energized to get out of the house they would travel from all over (i.e. "hot spots") which could raise the infection rates, which had been fairly low in our County since the beginning. They didn't believe people will travel to Wine Country for restaurants, so they could begin dine-in service immediately. I saw the logic in this, and of course it was not presented to the public like this in any way, shape, or form. the message was simply "flatten the curve". eventually we were allowed to re-open on June 10, and the "wine-with-a-meal" provision was scrapped within 48 hours of the re-open order being issued. go figure. 

i point this out to show how early on, there was some thoughtfulness applied to how shutdown/re-open directives were applied...even if i disagreed with how the application was presented and which businesses were disproportionately negatively affected. now, we don't see any surgical application of directives, it's simply the State saying,  "We're doing this and you must comply"  without any nuance or consideration for how different areas of the State are handling the spread of C-19. surely, there are some business owners who either DGAF or don't have the assets to properly adhere to the Outdoor Only Order, and those are the folks who are mucking it up for those who care about the health and safety of their teams, guests, and community at large. 

tl;dr - stopping C-19 spread is a priority and it's easier to just shut everything in the service/hospitality sector down rather than take a deep-dive into what measures could be implemented to save small businesses. 

 
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No.

It's about some people have compassion about single mom's scrambling after they've lost their jobs and see that as a problem. 

And other people see that as more "bad luck and timing is a #####”.  And that's super discouraging to me and a lot of people. 
I’m going to take some liberty with this post. I hope it’s received well.

Ive heard some in this country speak of “pull yourself up by your bootstraps”. Are these the same type of people you are referring to?  The same people who don’t have compassion for people who are born into poverty?  Or this compassion you speak of only refer to people who had something but then taken away?  

 
Telling their workers "too bad, sometimes businesses fail" is a pretty callous way to look at things.
Who is saying this?  I have pointed out that people losing their jobs and businesses is not unique to COVID.

Also, what do you tell people born into poverty?  Where is that compassion?  Where is that outrage?  When COVID is gone and business are back open, what do we tell the people who still don’t have the basics in life?  I’m sorry, but this sounds to me like some selective compassion.  No offense intended.

It sounds like I need to check out of this discussion.

🕊️

 
Who is saying this?  I have pointed out that people losing their jobs and businesses is not unique to COVID.

Also, what do you tell people born into poverty?  Where is that compassion?  Where is that outrage?  When COVID is gone and business are back open, what do we tell the people who still don’t have the basics in life?  I’m sorry, but this sounds to me like some selective compassion.  No offense intended.

It sounds like I need to check out of this discussion.

🕊️
I think you need to acknowledge the difference between vastly divergent situations.  A restaurant owner who is facing bankruptcy and the loss of dozens of jobs is in an entirely different situation than someone born into poverty.  This is a false equivalency that ignores that the problems and solutions are entirely different.  
 

Moving the goalposts to try to justify this argument doesn’t help you sound more reasonable.

 
I think you need to acknowledge the difference between vastly divergent situations.  A restaurant owner who is facing bankruptcy and the loss of dozens of jobs is in an entirely different situation than someone born into poverty.  This is a false equivalency that ignores that the problems and solutions are entirely different.  
 

Moving the goalposts to try to justify this argument doesn’t help you sound more reasonable.
Let me ask you this:  would you rather be born into poverty or be facing bankruptcy and the loss of dozens of jobs?

Once all of us answer that one honestly, it will help with our perspective. 

 
Let me ask you this:  would you rather be born into poverty or be facing bankruptcy and the loss of dozens of jobs?

Once all of us answer that one honestly, it will help with our perspective. 
Basing questions on false equivalencies is a waste of time.  Your position as to business owners losing their businesses and employees losing their jobs due to mismanaged policies during a pandemic is repugnant.  
 

 
I think you need to acknowledge the difference between vastly divergent situations.  A restaurant owner who is facing bankruptcy and the loss of dozens of jobs is in an entirely different situation than someone born into poverty.  This is a false equivalency that ignores that the problems and solutions are entirely different.  
 

Moving the goalposts to try to justify this argument doesn’t help you sound more reasonable.
I’m going to answer this twice as I don’t think I want you to think my first response was disingenuous. 

I do not believe they are a false equivalency. I’m simply backing into people spouting off “compassion”.  I don’t believe I have moved the goalposts. I believe I have drawn a parallel from certain people who think CV restrictions imposed by the govt are destroying peoples lives and livelihoods to socioeconomic barriers imposed by the govt which are destroying peoples lives and livelihoods. I don’t see any difference and I would love an explanation.

In one situation you have people who had something and it was taken away by the govt and in another situation you have people who never had a chance because the govt never gave it to them. 

I’ll leave it at this parallel is easy for me to see and feel

🕊️

 
Basing questions on false equivalencies is a waste of time.  Your position as to business owners losing their businesses and employees losing their jobs due to mismanaged policies during a pandemic is repugnant.  
 
Mismanged policies?  Those same policies that are used to protect my wife from COVID everyday?  Those policies?

 
Mismanged policies?  Those same policies that are used to protect my wife from COVID everyday?  Those policies?
If your wife doesn’t want to eat outside at a restaurant, she’s free to stay home or get takeout.  
 

Tomorrow I’m taking 20 propane tanks to get filled for my friend’s business so he can keep outdoor dining going and keep paying his employees.  Sorry you can’t understand how this is effecting small businesses and their employees.   But I’m going to to what I can to keep them from having to shutter their businesses.

 
I’m going to answer this twice as I don’t think I want you to think my first response was disingenuous. 

I do not believe they are a false equivalency. I’m simply backing into people spouting off “compassion”.  I don’t believe I have moved the goalposts. I believe I have drawn a parallel from certain people who think CV restrictions imposed by the govt are destroying peoples lives and livelihoods to socioeconomic barriers imposed by the govt which are destroying peoples lives and livelihoods. I don’t see any difference and I would love an explanation.

In one situation you have people who had something and it was taken away by the govt and in another situation you have people who never had a chance because the govt never gave it to them. 

I’ll leave it at this parallel is easy for me to see and feel

🕊️
You want an explanation of how someone who has a job and works 40 hours a week and is suddenly faced with not being able to work is different than someone who was born into poverty, or even homeless due to typical factors like addiction, PTSD, etc.?   
 

You can’t help a server who’s lost their job pay their mortgage by providing social services, addiction counseling and housing vouchers.  They have mortgages to pay and their lenders are going to foreclose.  Is it good to destroy people’s credit and create more poverty and homelessness?   
 

honestly, if you think these situations are the same we have nothing to discuss.

 
You want an explanation of how someone who has a job and works 40 hours a week and is suddenly faced with not being able to work is different than someone who was born into poverty, or even homeless due to typical factors like addiction, PTSD, etc.?   
 

You can’t help a server who’s lost their job pay their mortgage by providing social services, addiction counseling and housing vouchers.  They have mortgages to pay and their lenders are going to foreclose.  Is it good to destroy people’s credit and create more poverty and homelessness?   
 

honestly, if you think these situations are the same we have nothing to discuss.
Thank you for the reply. I think I fully understand your position.

It is horrible when anyone loses their job or business for any reason. I think everyone has compassion for that.

From your posts it sounds like you feel restaurants should not be shutdown. And therefore they are a victim in this situation. That these COVID policies are unnecessary and unjust and therefore not OK.  I can guarantee that is not the case.   For this instance, I would encourage you instead of projecting your unhappiness and anger to instead make change. Run for a local office, run for the local Board of Health (or the like), be part of the solution. I can assure you that no one wants to shut down your friends business or anyone else’s business for that matter. You can also encourage others to run and be a supporter of them.  Everyone plays a different role in change.  Being in leadership situations where incredibly rough decisions have to made is hard.

I would also encourage you to think about others when you see families struggling due to the loss of income. Not having income happens to many people for many reasons.  That is why safety net and social programs are so necessary. I would encourage you and others to support the politicians who will fight for those rights now and also when things get better for businesses. Because, you never know when situations like these arise. This is what makes the social programs so important.

IMHO you feel your friends situation is special or unjust due to COVID.  I must apologize for saying this, but it is not unjust.  I have tremendous compassion for your friend and all those effected. That compassion includes the people who we are trying to save with these restrictions, including my wife.  But I also have compassion for more than just COVID loss.

This situation sucks, plain and simple.  This is why I make the choices I do I my life to try and always support local businesses but to also work towards having protection and support when things don’t go well. 

Best wishes tomorrow. If you pass along your friends business I would be happy to purchase a gift certificate tomorrow.  What you are doing for your friend is incredible.  When your friend gets things turned around, I would encourage you to then look to others who are also still in need. I’m guessing that if more people spend a lot of time working with the tremendous amount of existing people in need, when issues arise which hit close to home things will make more sense. 

🕊️

 
Any updates on the Azar-Pfizer contradiction regarding millions of vaccine doses sitting on shelves pending federal delivery instructions?

 
Not much that I can see. 

I don't think telling her after she lost her job "Bad luck and timing is a #####". was cool back then. Not a big fan of it today. :shrug:  

Obviously, others disagree. 
You are awfully sensitive on this one @Joe Bryant. The comment was definitely not directed at single moms. But since you brought it up, I will respond. I have a huge soft spot for single moms. My wife was a single mom when I met her. Her life was hard, still is. She is the toughest person I know.

At my work, I hired a single mom just over a year ago. And her being a single mom was one of the main reasons I hired her. She was a new graduate at the time. I wanted to help her. I trained her for over a year. I had to do my job and her job much of the time. She flaked out many times, called out sick, had many personal issues, school issues for her kid, etc. I was always sympathetic and understood all of it. I wanted to help her because her life is much harder than mine. 
 

You know how I get rewarded for that? She takes all of that knowledge and experience that I provided to her and quits to take another job.

Spare me the indignant and sanctimonious “callous and flippant attitude” remark. You of all people should know that business is business. And yes, as I just found out, bad luck and timing are a #####. 

 
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Let me ask you this:  would you rather be born into poverty or be facing bankruptcy and the loss of dozens of jobs?

Once all of us answer that one honestly, it will help with our perspective. 
Joe's not asking you to choose one over the other.  You're dismissing one because you can come up with an example in your mind that's worse.  You could be better here too

 
Thank you for the reply. I think I fully understand your position.

It is horrible when anyone loses their job or business for any reason. I think everyone has compassion for that.

From your posts it sounds like you feel restaurants should not be shutdown. And therefore they are a victim in this situation. That these COVID policies are unnecessary and unjust and therefore not OK.  I can guarantee that is not the case.   For this instance, I would encourage you instead of projecting your unhappiness and anger to instead make change. Run for a local office, run for the local Board of Health (or the like), be part of the solution. I can assure you that no one wants to shut down your friends business or anyone else’s business for that matter. You can also encourage others to run and be a supporter of them.  Everyone plays a different role in change.  Being in leadership situations where incredibly rough decisions have to made is hard.

I would also encourage you to think about others when you see families struggling due to the loss of income. Not having income happens to many people for many reasons.  That is why safety net and social programs are so necessary. I would encourage you and others to support the politicians who will fight for those rights now and also when things get better for businesses. Because, you never know when situations like these arise. This is what makes the social programs so important.

IMHO you feel your friends situation is special or unjust due to COVID.  I must apologize for saying this, but it is not unjust.  I have tremendous compassion for your friend and all those effected. That compassion includes the people who we are trying to save with these restrictions, including my wife.  But I also have compassion for more than just COVID loss.

This situation sucks, plain and simple.  This is why I make the choices I do I my life to try and always support local businesses but to also work towards having protection and support when things don’t go well. 

Best wishes tomorrow. If you pass along your friends business I would be happy to purchase a gift certificate tomorrow.  What you are doing for your friend is incredible.  When your friend gets things turned around, I would encourage you to then look to others who are also still in need. I’m guessing that if more people spend a lot of time working with the tremendous amount of existing people in need, when issues arise which hit close to home things will make more sense. 

🕊️
unfortunately we can’t do anything at the local level. We can’t even distance our county from an unrelated city’s board of health, due to our governor.  We are a small, isolated town with few cases and a natural barrier from large cities, but are being shut down due to isolated outbreaks primarily centered in a few elder care facilities in cities miles away and separated by bodies of water.   Because of their numbers, our kids can’t go to school and our businesses are suffering.  Small businesses that have been here for 30-50 years are closing forever.  We have no issues with ICU beds or hospitalization.  
 

there is no scientific basis for shutting down outdoor dining or other gatherings where distancing, masks and disinfection are maintained.  Our state has essentially no plan for vaccinations beyond first responders.  I’m sorry you fear for your wife because she may be exposed to someone who has engaged in a low risk activity like dining outdoors.  She could chose to stay home.  My friends and neighbors can’t choose to not pay their bills while we wait months for a vaccine that’s sitting in warehouses with no shipping orders.  My daughter hasn’t seen the inside of a school since March.  She’s depressed and recovering from an eating disorder.  Losing school, social events, college preparation,  and her ability to perform live music has caused her severe setbacks in her recovery.  I fear for her mental health.   Her best friend tried to commit suicide last week.   But at least your wife is safe from people eating outside.

 
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You are awfully sensitive on this one @Joe Bryant. The comment was definitely not directed at single moms. But since you brought it up, I will respond. I have a huge soft spot for single moms. My wife was a single mom when I met her. Her life was hard, still is. She is the toughest person I know.

At my work, I hired a single mom just over a year ago. And her being a single mom was one of the main reasons I hired her. She was a new graduate at the time. I wanted to help her. I trained her for over a year. I had to do my job and her job much of the time. She flaked out many times, called out sick, had many personal issues, school issues for her kid, etc. I was always sympathetic and understood all of it. I wanted to help her because her life is much harder than mine. 
 

You know how I get rewarded for that? She takes all of that knowledge and experience that I provided to her and quits to take another job.

Spare me the indignant and sanctimonious “callous and flippant attitude” remark. You of all people should know that business is business. And yes, as I just found out, bad luck and timing are a #####. 
Thanks. We'll agree I'm definitely sensitive to the single mom plight.

We'll just have to disagree and move on for the rest.

 
I’m going to take some liberty with this post. I hope it’s received well.

Ive heard some in this country speak of “pull yourself up by your bootstraps”. Are these the same type of people you are referring to?  The same people who don’t have compassion for people who are born into poverty?  Or this compassion you speak of only refer to people who had something but then taken away?  
Not sure what you're trying to get at but I'll try to answer. 

I don't know who you're referring to as the pull yourself up by the bootstraps people. When I said, some people see it as "bad luck and timing is a #####” that was a quote from a post here.

I don't know how that poster feels about people born into poverty. 

The compassion I wrote about was talking about a single mom who lost her job. I don't know why having compassion for her would preclude someone for having compassion in other areas. 

And this is a long ways off the topic. Sorry if I had a hand in derailing. 

 
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Not sure what you're trying to get at but I'll try to answer. 

I don't know who you're referring to as the pull yourself up by the bootstraps people. When I said, some people see it as "bad luck and timing is a #####” that was a quote from a post here.

I don't know how that poster feels about people born into poverty. 

The compassion I wrote about was talking about a single mom who lost her job. I don't know why having compassion for her would preclude someone for having compassion in other areas. 

And this is a long ways off the topic. Sorry if I had a hand in derailing. 
Joe, I’m sorry if I’ve been harsh to other posters.  This has hit me hard the last couple weeks.  I’ve known 3 people who have died from COVID, but the other side has now come down too.  My kid is in danger, my friends are going bankrupt and I’m trying to help get a teenager who just tried to kill herself into a rehab facility, and it’s not happening due to restrictions that don’t recognize reality.  It’s frustrating on all sides.  Don’t mean to be a jerk to anyone, but I’m a little pissed at the “let them fail” mentality.  
 

 
unfortunately we can’t do anything at the local level. We can’t even distance our county from an unrelated city’s board of health, due to our governor.  We are a small, isolated town with few cases and a natural barrier from large cities, but are being shut down due to isolated outbreaks primarily centered in a few elder care facilities in cities miles away and separated by bodies of water.   Because of their numbers, our kids can’t go to school and our businesses are suffering.  Small businesses that have been here for 30-50 years are closing forever.  We have no issues with ICU beds or hospitalization.  
 

there is no scientific basis for shutting down outdoor dining or other gatherings where distancing, masks and disinfection are maintained.  Our state has essentially no plan for vaccinations beyond first responders.  I’m sorry you fear for your wife because she may be exposed to someone who has engaged in a low risk activity like dining outdoors.  She could chose to stay home.  My friends and neighbors can’t choose to not pay their bills while we wait months for a vaccine that’s sitting in warehouses with no shipping orders.  My daughter hasn’t seen the inside of a school since March.  She’s depressed and recovering from an eating disorder.  Losing school, social events, college preparation,  and her ability to perform live music has caused her severe setbacks in her recovery.  I fear for her mental health.   Her best friend tried to commit suicide last week.   But at least your wife is safe from people eating outside.
I can’t sit on my phone and wave a wand and solve any problems for you obviously. I also don’t want you to think I or anyone else is not compassionate to horrible situations like the one you describe.

My two youngest (12 and 14) are doing very well in their remote schooling. My ADHD 17yo junior is struggling mightily.  This setting will never work for him and it’s incredibly painful to watch him each and every day fail. The worst part is he wants to do well, but his executive function becomes too much to overcome even with the medication.

Your situation reminds me of my wife’s family in central New York. They are very unhappy with the representation of the state. Folks up there hate Cuomo with a passion. There is not a lot to be done. However, to be frank and not to reel off topic, this is how we got Trump. Obama left too many people behind. We as a country can’t allow these crazy pendulum swings. While it’s no solace now, maybe there are some other local candidates which bridge moderately what you are looking for. There are a ton of people like you and I who simply want everyone to have an opportunity to be happy.  In addition, maybe there could be a movement to incorporate your town into its own body?  Sorry to be trying to solve your problems but I am eternal optimist who wants everyone to be happy.  That’s my role.  My final piece of advice is if you don’t agree with your politicians, write them.  Make a video.  Don’t let them skate.  Never reward bad behavior.  That is your right, don’t allow anyone or anything to silence your American freedoms.

Best of luck today with your friend. I hope he is able to weather this sucky situation. 

 
Joe, I’m sorry if I’ve been harsh to other posters.  This has hit me hard the last couple weeks.  I’ve known 3 people who have died from COVID, but the other side has now come down too.  My kid is in danger, my friends are going bankrupt and I’m trying to help get a teenager who just tried to kill herself into a rehab facility, and it’s not happening due to restrictions that don’t recognize reality.  It’s frustrating on all sides.  Don’t mean to be a jerk to anyone, but I’m a little pissed at the “let them fail” mentality.  
 
Totally understood. I don't at all like the "let them fail" mentality either. It's a super trying time for tons of folks from all different angles. I know people tire of me talking about grace and empathy but I think we need it now more than ever. Best to you there. 

 
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I’m going to take some liberty with this post. I hope it’s received well.

Ive heard some in this country speak of “pull yourself up by your bootstraps”. Are these the same type of people you are referring to?  The same people who don’t have compassion for people who are born into poverty?  Or this compassion you speak of only refer to people who had something but then taken away?  
Not sure what you're trying to get at but I'll try to answer. 

I don't know who you're referring to as the pull yourself up by the bootstraps people. When I said, some people see it as "bad luck and timing is a #####” that was a quote from a post here.

I don't know how that poster feels about people born into poverty. 

The compassion I wrote about was talking about a single mom who lost her job. I don't know why having compassion for her would preclude someone for having compassion in other areas. 

And this is a long ways off the topic. Sorry if I had a hand in derailing
Joe - with all due respect, we both know what I am trying to get at.

Im asking you if your compassion for single mothers extends to single mothers of color living in inner cities who need support.

 
Joe - with all due respect, we both know what I am trying to get at.

Im asking you if your compassion for single mothers extends to single mothers of color living in inner cities who need support.
Or single mothers who need control over their bodies, family planning, health care, and birth control. 

 
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Joe - with all due respect, we both know what I am trying to get at.

Im asking you if your compassion for single mothers extends to single mothers of color living in inner cities who need support.
Edited to not get banned.

 
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Joe - with all due respect, we both know what I am trying to get at.

Im asking you if your compassion for single mothers extends to single mothers of color living in inner cities who need support.
I don't know what you're trying to get at when you don't say it. I do best when you just ask what you really mean.

For your question here, I can't speak for everyone else. But of course my compassion for single mothers extends to single mothers of color living in inner cities who need support.

Honestly, seems like a super odd thing to ask. Have I said anything to make you think I'd deny compassion to those moms? And not sure why you'd feel the need to specify. When I said "single mothers", I meant single mothers. Of all colors regardless of where they live. I'd hope that goes without having to say it. 

 
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Joe, I’m sorry if I’ve been harsh to other posters.  This has hit me hard the last couple weeks.  I’ve known 3 people who have died from COVID, but the other side has now come down too.  My kid is in danger, my friends are going bankrupt and I’m trying to help get a teenager who just tried to kill herself into a rehab facility, and it’s not happening due to restrictions that don’t recognize reality.  It’s frustrating on all sides.  Don’t mean to be a jerk to anyone, but I’m a little pissed at the “let them fail” mentality.  
 
Sorry to hear about all of this -- best of luck, GB.

 
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Joe Bryant said:
I'm sure this will be a comfort to the single mom former server who's scrambling to take care of her kids.

As I've said repeatedly here, health comes first. And it may be that people losing their jobs is unavoidable. But the callous and flip attitude here towards real people losing their livelihood is discouraging. 

I'll bow out of this one. 
Joe - this was your original quote.

You've now stated that you always have compassion for single mothers regardless of situation.

Since you have the same compassion for all single mothers, is it fair to say that a single mother in the inner city deserves the same attention as a single mother server effected by COVID?  I’m going to assume the answer is yes. 

If the answer is yes, why would we not as a country continue to provide “stimulus” to all single mothers who don’t have a job or are below the poverty line?  Meaning, if all single mothers deserve the same compassion, why would we stop helping all of them when COVID is over?

If we stop stimulus checks when COVID is over, aren’t you withdrawing “compassion” from all single mothers?

 
Joe - this was your original quote.

You've now stated that you always have compassion for single mothers regardless of situation.

Since you have the same compassion for all single mothers, is it fair to say that a single mother in the inner city deserves the same attention as a single mother server effected by COVID?  I’m going to assume the answer is yes. 

If the answer is yes, why would we not as a country continue to provide “stimulus” to all single mothers who don’t have a job or are below the poverty line?  Meaning, if all single mothers deserve the same compassion, why would we stop helping all of them when COVID is over?

If we stop stimulus checks when COVID is over, aren’t you withdrawing “compassion” from all single mothers?
Amazing you keep beating this drum.  

 
If we stop stimulus checks when COVID is over, aren’t you withdrawing “compassion” from all single mothers?
Sorry but I've no idea where you're going with any of that.

I'd hope it would have been clear I have compassion for folks. I don't know specifics about checks or stopping checks or any of that and frankly, it seems pretty odd to keep trying to make something out of hypotheticals like that. 

And again, I apologize for getting the thread off track. 

 
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Sorry but I've no idea where you're going with any of that.

I'd hope it would have been clear I have compassion for folks. I don't know specifics about checks or stopping checks or any of that and frankly, it seems pretty odd to keep trying to make something out of hypotheticals like that. 

And again, I apologize for getting the thread off track. 
Joe - got it.  You have compassion for all single mothers. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem you are able to qualify what “compassion” means.  Is your compassion just a feeling?  Is it an action?  Is it a type of behavior?

If your “compassion” is just a feeling, not something you act on, message received loud and clear.

Normally in a situation like this I would challenge someone to do more, to be more, to ask themselves if simply having this “feeling”’ is enough, if they are the best version of themselves. But as rover has mentioned, I’m done beating the drum. The sound coming from that drum is falling in deaf ears.  I’m out.

🕊️

 
JAA- name a charity that helps single mothers in poverty.  I’ll donate $1000 today.
How about today you focus on your friend?  Maybe buy some gift certificates? Maybe hand them out as Xmas gifts?

When COVID is over and we are all back to normal maybe we can chat about single mothers in need?

Clearly you are a great guy rover, you don’t need any vindication. I enjoy the debate. 

🕊️

 
I think understand what JAA is trying to say but I’m not positive but I am positive he isn’t doing a good job of explaining it and I don’t think I totally agree.

 
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1. You don't think any restaurants are open?  Well, you're wrong.

2. Also wrong about My Place.  Because you know where it is in Huntington Beach means what exactly?  That it wasn't open?  What are you talking about?

3. You claim Tito's actually a nice guy?  Where are you getting that?  A nice guy would care a lot more about others than that man.  Have you even read or seen what he really believes?  There is no defending it.  I don't believe for a minute, deep down, you think he's "a pretty nice guy".  Either that, or you don't actually know much about him.  He's borderline dangerous and you think that's "alright"? 

This.  And more.  Nice guy.
1. I drive HB every day and so far as I know no restaurants are open for dining. Haven’t been to My Place; it’s in a secluded area (not retail) so I’m not sure. It would, however, surprise me if it were open. 
2. Tito’s comments are extreme and foolish. What I meant when I wrote that he’s a nice guy is that a lot of his neighbors attest to the fact that he is always friendly, always generous, willing to help out in personal situations. I don’t know him personally. I try not to judge someone’s personality based on their political views no matter how extreme unless they’re a clear racist, fascist, etc. Tito seems kind of dumb actually but probably good at heart. I don’t know. 

 
How about today you focus on your friend?  Maybe buy some gift certificates? Maybe hand them out as Xmas gifts?

When COVID is over and we are all back to normal maybe we can chat about single mothers in need?

Clearly you are a great guy rover, you don’t need any vindication. I enjoy the debate. 

🕊️
See, these are two different things that have two different approaches.  I helped my friend by filling 20 propane tanks. That did nothing for single women in poverty.  By donating to a charity, I could help them.  Two problems. Two different approaches.  

I’ll find a charity on my own.  What’s your name?  I’ll donate on your behalf.

 
See, these are two different things that have two different approaches.  I helped my friend by filling 20 propane tanks. That did nothing for single women in poverty.  By donating to a charity, I could help them.  Two problems. Two different approaches.  

I’ll find a charity on my own.  What’s your name?  I’ll donate on your behalf.
Best wishes and happy holidays to you and yours.

🕊️

 
The last several pages here are garbage, and I'm not a fan of the "I'll donate" one-upmanship from anyone, but I've worked with Mary's Place for years so thank you for that donation.
It’s not one-upmanship.  He had a point about compassion for one group and not another. I disagree with his entire position as to restaurants, but not about that.  I believe his heart is in the right place.  I wholeheartedly disagree with his argument and even find some of it offensive, but with the city running homeless people out of the park today, in the cold and especially near Christmas, I felt the need not to be a hypocrite.

 
JAA definitely likes to play devils triangle, i mean advocate, and even though considering my personal situation I hate most of what he is saying and think he is dead wrong, he comes from a position where he thinks the government is actually doing the correct things and that therefore it is the virus calling the shots. 

I can at least see the flow through there. 

Like I said, i hate it, but I can see it. 

 
Nate Silver not hiding contempt for the rollout plan of the vaccine.

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1340361755403366400?s=20
It’s all a predictable mess. We (retail pharmacy) are part of giving shots to group 1B in Arizona which includes essential workers, over 65 and those with pre-existing conditions. I keep waiting for more information about how we are going to break those groups down and triage them. Those are some huge categories especially in my area. I’m waiting on instructions so that I can make my plan and I’m sure that’s true for all the layers above me as well.

 
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Best wishes and happy holidays to you and yours.

🕊️
Thanks.  Hope you and your wife stay safe.  Donated $1000 to Mary’s Place in Seattle on behalf of JAA.  Merry Christmas
That was incredibly generous of you.

Im not in a position to make that type of contribution to your friends business, but if you share the name of the establishment I would love to contribute. 

Best wishes to you and your family.

 
It’s not one-upmanship.  He had a point about compassion for one group and not another. I disagree with his entire position as to restaurants, but not about that.  I believe his heart is in the right place.  I wholeheartedly disagree with his argument and even find some of it offensive, but with the city running homeless people out of the park today, in the cold and especially near Christmas, I felt the need not to be a hypocrite.
Edit - Just saw Krista’s post was not quoted - my comment was directed toward her.

My intention was not to make anyone feel like a hypocrite. 

My intention, clearly poorly done, was to generate conversation around folks in need due to COVID and not due to COVID.  And that people who want the govt to make things better, should consider how they channel their passion.

Also, I take offense to the gamesmanship concept of this being a one-upping. I understand from folks not part of the conversation that it may look that way, however rover and I are two real people trying to process their situations in a real way on this matter.  The vulnerability of our posts should have made that clear.  This is not a contest, especially for me. 

 
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JAA definitely likes to play devils triangle, i mean advocate, and even though considering my personal situation I hate most of what he is saying and think he is dead wrong, he comes from a position where he thinks the government is actually doing the correct things and that therefore it is the virus calling the shots. 

I can at least see the flow through there. 

Like I said, i hate it, but I can see it. 
So I did a cursory google of Devils Triangle :bag:

Regarding whether or not the govt is doing the right thing, I would encourage you to actually get into a position where you have to deal with these real life situations.  And I’m not talking about the federal level.

The dynamics of politics is about being in service to the people through supporting your boards (elected and appointed) and staff (hired) and building consensus.  There is never an opportunity for a single person to step in and be the single voice of direction where everyone else just falls in line.  Regardless of what you see on TV or read in books, that’s simply not how it works. In addition, in the public sector these decisions take time. Geez, sometimes they take forever.

Look - if this conversation here is about venting and chest thumping, have at it and I’ll check myself at the door. If this conversation is about how do the little people like you and I make change, like real actual change, I’m all for it.

At some level we all have to put our trust in something.  Before you throw your trust out the window on your BOH, local leaders (including first responders) consider having some conversations with them.  I believe you could learn a lot.

You may even start with your police and fire chiefs.  Ask them their thoughts on the COVID situation and how it impacts how they do their job, you might be surprised.  If they believe the current protocols are garbage, ask them what you can do to help fix it.  Then, hold your BOH accountable.  Go to their meetings, watch the old ones, read the minutes, read the public comment.  Organize.  You will find your motivated advocates there.  If you want to truly find the highly motivated ones, now go through your school committee meetings. Those parents know how to squeak!

Or - do nothing.  Come to FBGs and tell folks how you have it all figured out and only if people would listen to you.  

 
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The last page or so is not exactly what I was expecting to find here. 

I thought maybe things like what’s going on in Florida. DeSantis said the State is likely getting much less than the 450,000 vaccines expected due to a production error by Pfizer. Pfizer immediately contradicted him saying they have sent all the vaccines ordered and that Florida simply hasn’t actually ordered the amount DeSantis has been claiming.
https://twitter.com/michaelzemanek1/status/1340183050781540353?s=21

Also the young and healthy Marco Rubio was able to get the vaccine while hundreds of thousands of front line health care workers won’t be getting the vaccine as expected due to the failure to order the advertised amount. Pfizer was pretty clear that the US Govt is a asleep at the wheel here.

“We have millions more doses sitting in our warehouse but, as of now, we have not received any shipment instructions for additional doses.”

 
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