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Government Response To The Coronavirus


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3 hours ago, The Commish said:

Apparently, people think once they get the vaccine they are immune instantly?  Like, they don't understand that the body still has to have time to build antibodies and the like?  Really?  We're never going to get out of this :lol: 

Who's going to tell him?

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This is going to be a one off post because I don't want to get trolled or banned but if I were American, the context of Canada would be the biggest damning fact of how things have been handled in the

Australia has had months of little to no community spread and even then it was confined to one state. By and large Australians are running around doing the right thing, sport was and is still hap

I am confident we are going to hit >750K deaths.  I think it might be a million.  I don't post a ton but I'm an ER doc in a big city. This is by far the worse I've seen since the pandemic star

2 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

Is this because some people are freaking out about the nurse that got it after getting the vaccine a few days earlier?

Just like when some random clinic has to waste 1,000 vaccines, people that get the virus after getting the vaccine will get lots of press, which is unfortunate.

Even if people get both sets of vaccines and it's 95% effective, it's still only.....95% effective..

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1 hour ago, Biff84 said:

Not exactly new, there are probably millions of people who don’t get a flu shot because one time they ‘got the flu from the flu shot’ even though it was likely impossible.

Yeah....I guess I just underestimate the ignorance of "the people"...which I thought was virtually impossible, but apparently my bar is STILL too high.

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Just now, The Commish said:

Yeah....I guess I just underestimate the ignorance of "the people"...which I thought was virtually impossible, but apparently my bar is STILL too high.

I mean, there are people who think vaccines cause autism. Immunity is incorrect, but hardly the craziest misperception out there. Try to be more kind, not everyone is as smart as you.

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4 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

I mean, there are people who think vaccines cause autism. Immunity is incorrect, but hardly the craziest misperception out there. Try to be more kind, not everyone is as smart as you.

Most of this world is smarter than me.  I am self aware enough to understand that.  And yeah, even I know the basics of these things that impact my life directly.  Why?  Not because I am "smart" but because I take the time to seek the answers.  None of these people know my true opinions on their positions.  That's being PLENTY "kind" to them in my opinion.  As a matter of fact, I struggle to see how I could be any more kind under those circumstances.  At some point I'm going to call you dumb for continually burning your hand on a hot stove after being told time and time again that you will get burned if you touch a hot stove.  I'm a flawed person who doesn't have eternal grace/patience.  I have no problem admitting that :shrug: 

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1 hour ago, Biff84 said:

Not exactly new, there are probably millions of people who don’t get a flu shot because one time they ‘got the flu from the flu shot’ even though it was likely impossible.

I was thinking about this the other day.  At least I didn't have to hear friends/family/people claim this in the Fall.   I always approached it the same way I do when somebody brings up politics, and this was WAY before Trump, smile politely and change the subject.

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Just now, The Commish said:

Most of this world is smarter than me.  I am self aware enough to understand that.  And yeah, even I know the basics of these things that impact my life directly.  Why?  Not because I am "smart" but because I take the time to seek the answers.  None of these people know my true opinions on their positions.  That's being PLENTY "kind" to them in my opinion.  As a matter of fact, I struggle to see how I could be any more kind under those circumstances.  At some point I'm going to call you dumb for continually burning your hand on a hot stove after being told time and time again that you will get burned if you touch a hot stove.  I'm a flawed person who doesn't have eternal grace/patience.  I have no problem admitting that :shrug: 

NOT ME!!

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16 minutes ago, 2Squirrels1Nut said:

I was thinking about this the other day.  At least I didn't have to hear friends/family/people claim this in the Fall.   I always approached it the same way I do when somebody brings up politics, and this was WAY before Trump, smile politely and change the subject.

For most subjects I do the same but since it’s a big part of my job I do try to inform them of why they may have gotten sick (takes 2 weeks to be effective, may have been exposed before the shot or side effects of shot may be confused with the flu). My goal isn’t to convince them but to give them all the information so they can make their own decision. Every year I get a number of people who say they didn’t get the flu shot for 10 years because they thought it would give them the flu until someone explained it to them. Most will never change their mind.

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Thousands packed the streets to celebrate New Year's Eve in Wuhan, where the coronavirus first emerged, as other cities worldwide were deserted

>> Since May, it has been free from the virus following a strictly-enforced 76-day lockdown of its 11 million citizens.

Liberated from the threat of COVID-19 and life has returned to near-normal for Wuhan residents, and images from the city showed they could celebrate the New Year by cramming onto the streets to greet the New Year.

This week saw the deadliest day in the United States since the coronavirus pandemic began, with a record-breaking number of hospitalizations foreshadowing potentially darker days still to come.

States across the US reported more than 3,900 deaths on Wednesday and over 125,000 hospitalizations, according to data from The Covid Tracking Project. <<

And the Chinese are still wearing masks.

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I am confident we are going to hit >750K deaths.  I think it might be a million.  I don't post a ton but I'm an ER doc in a big city.

This is by far the worse I've seen since the pandemic started.   50% of all the patients I see have covid.  Even the people who come in with trauma - fell out of bed, etc, or unrelated stuff like abdominal pain or UTI's wind up either having a fever or hypoxia and we work that up too and it's covid.  There has been a  cardiac arrest in the waiting room my last three shifts.  There are no rooms, no staff, all the staff who is working is completely stressed and therefore at risk to make mistakes and it's totally chaos so these marginal patients that show up with decent vital signs get brought by EMS and straight out to the waiting room, and are stuck there even after being worked up and admitted.  Ive personally admitted at least 6-7 people every night who I can almost guarantee will be be 80-90% likely to die. To be honest, there is a percentage who should probably be made hospice on the spot and just made comfortable instead of being treated aggressively for a week, eventually put on a vent and die at week 3.   But that could be a whole other thread. Meanwhile, the non-covid patients are getting way ####tier care as a result.

I don't think it's possible for the government or the american people to have handled this any worse.   So so so stupid. I might just move to new zealand.  I'm ashamed to be an american. We suck.   Meanwhile my idiot menagerie of midwestern cousins (who all went to college shockingly) just post on facebook about how they refuse to wear a mask and want everything opened up immediately.   I DEMAAAANDDD  MYYYYYY FREEEEEEDOMMMMMMSSSSSSS

 

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19 hours ago, SoBeDad said:

Thousands packed the streets to celebrate New Year's Eve in Wuhan, where the coronavirus first emerged, as other cities worldwide were deserted

>> Since May, it has been free from the virus following a strictly-enforced 76-day lockdown of its 11 million citizens.

Liberated from the threat of COVID-19 and life has returned to near-normal for Wuhan residents, and images from the city showed they could celebrate the New Year by cramming onto the streets to greet the New Year.

This week saw the deadliest day in the United States since the coronavirus pandemic began, with a record-breaking number of hospitalizations foreshadowing potentially darker days still to come.

States across the US reported more than 3,900 deaths on Wednesday and over 125,000 hospitalizations, according to data from The Covid Tracking Project. <<

And the Chinese are still wearing masks.

This is what an ACTUAL lockdown affords you :shrug: 

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3 hours ago, growlers said:

I am confident we are going to hit >750K deaths.  I think it might be a million.  I don't post a ton but I'm an ER doc in a big city.

This is by far the worse I've seen since the pandemic started.   50% of all the patients I see have covid.  Even the people who come in with trauma - fell out of bed, etc, or unrelated stuff like abdominal pain or UTI's wind up either having a fever or hypoxia and we work that up too and it's covid.  There has been a  cardiac arrest in the waiting room my last three shifts.  There are no rooms, no staff, all the staff who is working is completely stressed and therefore at risk to make mistakes and it's totally chaos so these marginal patients that show up with decent vital signs get brought by EMS and straight out to the waiting room, and are stuck there even after being worked up and admitted.  Ive personally admitted at least 6-7 people every night who I can almost guarantee will be be 80-90% likely to die. To be honest, there is a percentage who should probably be made hospice on the spot and just made comfortable instead of being treated aggressively for a week, eventually put on a vent and die at week 3.   But that could be a whole other thread. Meanwhile, the non-covid patients are getting way ####tier care as a result.

I don't think it's possible for the government or the american people to have handled this any worse.   So so so stupid. I might just move to new zealand.  I'm ashamed to be an american. We suck.   Meanwhile my idiot menagerie of midwestern cousins (who all went to college shockingly) just post on facebook about how they refuse to wear a mask and want everything opened up immediately.   I DEMAAAANDDD  MYYYYYY FREEEEEEDOMMMMMMSSSSSSS

 

I know this means little, but thank you from the bottom of my heart for what you are doing. Risking your health and your sanity working tireless hours day in and day out in an effort to save lives. I know it feels like a losing battle, but you are a hero. And that’s not a cliche. You are a ####### hero.

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4 hours ago, growlers said:

I am confident we are going to hit >750K deaths.  I think it might be a million.  I don't post a ton but I'm an ER doc in a big city.

This is by far the worse I've seen since the pandemic started.   50% of all the patients I see have covid.  Even the people who come in with trauma - fell out of bed, etc, or unrelated stuff like abdominal pain or UTI's wind up either having a fever or hypoxia and we work that up too and it's covid.  There has been a  cardiac arrest in the waiting room my last three shifts.  There are no rooms, no staff, all the staff who is working is completely stressed and therefore at risk to make mistakes and it's totally chaos so these marginal patients that show up with decent vital signs get brought by EMS and straight out to the waiting room, and are stuck there even after being worked up and admitted.  Ive personally admitted at least 6-7 people every night who I can almost guarantee will be be 80-90% likely to die. To be honest, there is a percentage who should probably be made hospice on the spot and just made comfortable instead of being treated aggressively for a week, eventually put on a vent and die at week 3.   But that could be a whole other thread. Meanwhile, the non-covid patients are getting way ####tier care as a result.

I don't think it's possible for the government or the american people to have handled this any worse.   So so so stupid. I might just move to new zealand.  I'm ashamed to be an american. We suck.   Meanwhile my idiot menagerie of midwestern cousins (who all went to college shockingly) just post on facebook about how they refuse to wear a mask and want everything opened up immediately.   I DEMAAAANDDD  MYYYYYY FREEEEEEDOMMMMMMSSSSSSS

 

I will second Bigbottom. Thanks for continuing to show up for us. I can't even imagine how hard a shift in the ER is these days. 

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1 hour ago, bigbottom said:

I know this means little, but thank you from the bottom of my heart for what you are doing. Risking your health and your sanity working tireless hours day in and day out in an effort to save lives. I know it feels like a losing battle, but you are a hero. And that’s not a cliche. You are a ####### hero.

This. 

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3 hours ago, bigbottom said:

I know this means little, but thank you from the bottom of my heart for what you are doing. Risking your health and your sanity working tireless hours day in and day out in an effort to save lives. I know it feels like a losing battle, but you are a hero. And that’s not a cliche. You are a ####### hero.

 

2 hours ago, Drunken Cowboy said:

I will second Bigbottom. Thanks for continuing to show up for us. I can't even imagine how hard a shift in the ER is these days. 

Thirds!!!!!

:goodposting:

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Does anyone live in a state where the vaccine is being distributed efficiently?  Washington State is a disaster.  We got something like 20% of the doses expected, and have only managed to use 5% of those for vaccinating health care providers.  

This weekend, the powers that be announced that we’ll be getting an app (yet to be developed) where you enter your profession, age, risk factors, etc. and it assigns you to a priority group.  Once that priority group is eligible for vaccination, you can show up wherever the vaccinations are available (we don’t know where that will be yet, but they’re hoping for large chain drug stores, grocery stores and Costco).  There will be no proof needed as to whether your priority assignment makes you eligible, and they won’t ask.  Their argument is that even though it’s a flawed system, it gets shots in arms, even if it’s low risk people.  

If that’s what’s going to happen, why have the app at all?   Just make it first-come, first-served after there has been sufficient opportunity for health care workers, first responders and nursing homes to have gotten the vaccine.

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7 minutes ago, the rover said:

Does anyone live in a state where the vaccine is being distributed efficiently?  

We already know the answer to this: no. 

But in a few months I predict things will look smoother. 

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

We already know the answer to this: no. 

But in a few months I predict things will look smoother. 

I don’t know that out of 50 states that none has put together an efficient distribution system.  Are you basing this on facts, or is this just your  opinion?  

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Just now, the rover said:

I don’t know that out of 50 states that none has put together an efficient distribution system.  Are you basing this on facts, or is this just your  opinion?  

History. In our entire history there hasn’t been a single big government program on this level that has started out even close to efficient. But eventually they figure it out. 

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4 minutes ago, timschochet said:

We already know the answer to this: no. 

But in a few months I predict things will look smoother. 

My 80-year-old mom got her vaccine at a county vaccination location and the whole process took 30 minutes (including the 15 minutes she had to wait after the shot to make sure she didn’t have a reaction).  That said, she benefitted from knowing about the location just minutes after they authorized extending to seniors. Now that the word is out, lines will no doubt be hours long for a while. 

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8 minutes ago, timschochet said:

History. In our entire history there hasn’t been a single big government program on this level that has started out even close to efficient. But eventually they figure it out. 

So, no factual basis, which is what I’ve always expected from you.  
 

My state is clearly on the incompetent side of the bell curve, but I’m willing to wager that there are states with better, more prepared health departments that are already doing a much better job.  I’d like to identify them and see what they did right.  I’m sure that not every state has botched its distribution, and you saying it makes me more convinced I’m right.  Your sweeping generalities being wrong are the historical benchmark here.

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5 minutes ago, the rover said:

So, no factual basis, which is what I’ve always expected from you.  
 

My state is clearly on the incompetent side of the bell curve, but I’m willing to wager that there are states with better, more prepared health departments that are already doing a much better job.  I’d like to identify them and see what they did right.  I’m sure that not every state has botched its distribution, and you saying it makes me more convinced I’m right.  Your sweeping generalities being wrong are the historical benchmark here.

Wow. 
was making a general statement but more on the side of long term optimism. I certainly hope you are correct that some some states are doing this smoothly already- I admit that I have no idea, as all I’ve read about so far are widespread problems. 

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40 minutes ago, the rover said:

Does anyone live in a state where the vaccine is being distributed efficiently?  Washington State is a disaster.  We got something like 20% of the doses expected, and have only managed to use 5% of those for vaccinating health care providers.  

This weekend, the powers that be announced that we’ll be getting an app (yet to be developed) where you enter your profession, age, risk factors, etc. and it assigns you to a priority group.  Once that priority group is eligible for vaccination, you can show up wherever the vaccinations are available (we don’t know where that will be yet, but they’re hoping for large chain drug stores, grocery stores and Costco).  There will be no proof needed as to whether your priority assignment makes you eligible, and they won’t ask.  Their argument is that even though it’s a flawed system, it gets shots in arms, even if it’s low risk people.  

If that’s what’s going to happen, why have the app at all?   Just make it first-come, first-served after there has been sufficient opportunity for health care workers, first responders and nursing homes to have gotten the vaccine.

What is your definition of efficient?

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11 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

What is your definition of efficient?

Let’s start with better than 5% delivery with no plan for distribution outside of large providers.

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53 minutes ago, the rover said:

Let’s start with better than 5% delivery with no plan for distribution outside of large providers.

As with much of the pandemic policy, the interface between state and federal governments is likely a big part of the problem.

 Here is a link to individual state plans.

This link gives data on percentages of vaccine distributed thus far.

Looks like less populated areas are doing a better job, on average, though they have much less vaccine to distribute.

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14 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

As with much of the pandemic policy, the interface between state and federal governments is likely a big part of the problem.

 Here is a link to individual state plans.

This link gives data on percentages of vaccine distributed thus far.

Looks like less populated areas are doing a better job, on average, though they have much less vaccine to distribute.

For my state that link takes me to a 65 page plan published in October.  As of this weekend, that plan was scrapped for the app and “honor system” once we can get vaccines into some sort of retail supply line.

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3 hours ago, bigbottom said:

My 80-year-old mom got her vaccine at a county vaccination location and the whole process took 30 minutes (including the 15 minutes she had to wait after the shot to make sure she didn’t have a reaction).  That said, she benefitted from knowing about the location just minutes after they authorized extending to seniors. Now that the word is out, lines will no doubt be hours long for a while. 

Arizona has a nice drive thru process that I was very impressed with. But it’s just not being rolled out well. For health care providers they had a pre-registration form you filled out and then they sent you an invite when it was time to schedule your shot. The problem was that they did a poor job getting the word out about the process and then the invites got sent to the junk mail or not at all.

The process itself seems like a good idea if they could get it to work right. They initially said there were going to be 5 POD sites doing these initially phases but only 2 are operating now. But it seems like the plan is not to use the pre-screening process or the PODs for the upcoming phases.

I think it will end up with states giving up and just making it a free-for-all.

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8 hours ago, the rover said:

Let’s start with better than 5% delivery with no plan for distribution outside of large providers.

A functional federal govt should have figured this out.  No compelling reason why individual states should have their own plans for distribution of vaccines in a pandemic.

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3 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

A functional federal govt should have figured this out.  No compelling reason why individual states should have their own plans for distribution of vaccines in a pandemic.

Kind of tough when leadership has checked out.  Heck, I live an hour from the Pfizer plant in Michigan and don't know anyone who got the vaxx.

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2 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

A functional federal govt should have figured this out.  No compelling reason why individual states should have their own plans for distribution of vaccines in a pandemic.

My admittedly loose understanding is that a huge amount of the problem is funding.  If you want health care workers to administer vaccines 24/7 -- we do want that, right? -- you have to pay them.  I seriously doubt that many municipalities have money sitting around to pay for a huge ramp-up of labor expenses.  This might be one of those few problems that the federal government might have solved simply by throwing money at it.  

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15 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

My admittedly loose understanding is that a huge amount of the problem is funding.  If you want health care workers to administer vaccines 24/7 -- we do want that, right? -- you have to pay them.  I seriously doubt that many municipalities have money sitting around to pay for a huge ramp-up of labor expenses.  This might be one of those few problems that the federal government might have solved simply by throwing money at it.  

Could also support local municipalities with the help of the doctors/nurses in the national guard as well.  It would probably pull some of those people from the covid units in their day to day jobs, but this seems to be the long game trying to shift from reactionary to proactive.

My county has 1000 shots per day....1000.  :mellow: 

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As slow as the rollout is now has anyone seen any details on how they plan to start administering the second doses while continuing to do the first ones once we hit those 28 or 21 day windows? We need to not only do magnitudes better but handle two shots (first and second) daily.

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On 1/2/2021 at 5:52 AM, growlers said:

I am confident we are going to hit >750K deaths.  I think it might be a million.  I don't post a ton but I'm an ER doc in a big city.

This is by far the worse I've seen since the pandemic started.   50% of all the patients I see have covid.  Even the people who come in with trauma - fell out of bed, etc, or unrelated stuff like abdominal pain or UTI's wind up either having a fever or hypoxia and we work that up too and it's covid.  There has been a  cardiac arrest in the waiting room my last three shifts.  There are no rooms, no staff, all the staff who is working is completely stressed and therefore at risk to make mistakes and it's totally chaos so these marginal patients that show up with decent vital signs get brought by EMS and straight out to the waiting room, and are stuck there even after being worked up and admitted.  Ive personally admitted at least 6-7 people every night who I can almost guarantee will be be 80-90% likely to die. To be honest, there is a percentage who should probably be made hospice on the spot and just made comfortable instead of being treated aggressively for a week, eventually put on a vent and die at week 3.   But that could be a whole other thread. Meanwhile, the non-covid patients are getting way ####tier care as a result.

I don't think it's possible for the government or the american people to have handled this any worse.   So so so stupid. I might just move to new zealand.  I'm ashamed to be an american. We suck.   Meanwhile my idiot menagerie of midwestern cousins (who all went to college shockingly) just post on facebook about how they refuse to wear a mask and want everything opened up immediately.   I DEMAAAANDDD  MYYYYYY FREEEEEEDOMMMMMMSSSSSSS

 

I’m late - but thank you for sharing and for the amazing work you do. 

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13 hours ago, timschochet said:

History. In our entire history there hasn’t been a single big government program on this level that has started out even close to efficient. But eventually they figure it out. 

Social Security is great

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@the rover - I think MA vaccine rollout had been good, at least my observation. 

I’ve see a number of healthcare friends already get the vaccine. My wife is scheduled for the 6th. I don’t know any non-essential who has received the vaccine. 

Wife does know of some nursing home residents who have received the vaccine.  Also it sounds like prisons in MA were included in the first wave. 

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4 minutes ago, timschochet said:
7 minutes ago, JAA said:

Social Security is great

It is. And it started out a mess

I’ve never read that. Can you share?

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Just now, JAA said:

I’ve never read that. Can you share?

Not from articles. I read it in The Glory and the Dream by William Manchester- the first half of that book which covers 1932-1972, is about the Great Depression. 

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7 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Not from articles. I read it in The Glory and the Dream by William Manchester- the first half of that book which covers 1932-1972, is about the Great Depression. 

Good book?

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1 hour ago, OrganizedChaos said:

As slow as the rollout is now has anyone seen any details on how they plan to start administering the second doses while continuing to do the first ones once we hit those 28 or 21 day windows? We need to not only do magnitudes better but handle two shots (first and second) daily.

We don't have a plan for administering the first doses, how could we have one thinking about the second?  I suspect in a month's time when all the second doses come due it's going to be an epic meltdown.  IMO, they will have to give priority to those getting their second dose over those just starting to get them.  The irony of that whole prospect is the "picking and choosing" aspect of healthcare.  Remember when that was used as an excuse to avoid Obamacare?  DEATH PANELS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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7 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

My admittedly loose understanding is that a huge amount of the problem is funding.  If you want health care workers to administer vaccines 24/7 -- we do want that, right? -- you have to pay them.  I seriously doubt that many municipalities have money sitting around to pay for a huge ramp-up of labor expenses.  This might be one of those few problems that the federal government might have solved simply by throwing money at it.  

Funding is certainly a part of it but I think the biggest reason is just a lack of planning. Between the election, COVID spikes and straight up incompetence, there just isn’t a plan. And if there was a plan, it failed. I’ve helped about two dozen health care workers get theirs because the email invite wasn’t received. Turns out they were all eligible to schedule their appointment a couple weeks ago and just had to login and schedule it. You’d think there would be someone monitoring the invites and noticing that likely thousands aren’t scheduling their appointment.

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6 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

Funding is certainly a part of it but I think the biggest reason is just a lack of planning. Between the election, COVID spikes and straight up incompetence, there just isn’t a plan. And if there was a plan, it failed. I’ve helped about two dozen health care workers get theirs because the email invite wasn’t received. Turns out they were all eligible to schedule their appointment a couple weeks ago and just had to login and schedule it. You’d think there would be someone monitoring the invites and noticing that likely thousands aren’t scheduling their appointment.

Prioritization and a desire for anti vaxxer punishment are going to lead to more deaths. 

Just jab arms. An email? Wtf

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17 hours ago, OrganizedChaos said:

As slow as the rollout is now has anyone seen any details on how they plan to start administering the second doses while continuing to do the first ones once we hit those 28 or 21 day windows? We need to not only do magnitudes better but handle two shots (first and second) daily.

My hospital gave us a date range to show up and receive the second dose, first-come, first served. My wife and I are due at the end of the week.

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