gianmarco
Footballguy
We had to book a specific appointment when receiving the first dose. Saturday morning for me.
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Government Response To The Coronavirus (9 Viewers)
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BladeRunner
Footballguy
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I booked my second dose for next week. The system we have in Arizona seems to work great for the people it works. Seems like they sent out invites to schedule your second dose 10 days before it was due. Hopefully they will get the kinks worked out of the system so that it works this well for everyone. I’m hoping to make a similar process for my patients once we get the vaccine.
the moops
Footballguy
YMCA has been doing incredible things during these times. They convinced me to keep up my monthly membership even though I haven't stepped foot in one since March
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I saw since the US Govt has basically said it’s up to the States to handle the vaccine rollout that some States are now saying it’s up to the counties to handle it. A county in Oklahoma is using a free survey monkey to organize it.
The Commish
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I support local government, individual rights, limited federal govt, etc. However, there are some things where a strong and central federal approach is 100% necessary. A war for example or a pandemic. There’s just no other way to properly address this.Just what we need...more passing the buck
The Commish
Footballguy
It's going swimmingly here....we have 550,000 people in my county and it's "first come first served" for 65+ at 1000 doses per day.
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parasaurolophus
Footballguy
How would the federal government take charge of vaccine rollout for example? National guard? Tell states that if they dont follow the prioritization plan they lose funding? Create a national registry?
In 2009 we had a terrible vaccine rollout. We obviously were not capable of a strong federal approach then, so how does this get accomplished?
I am seriously asking for any ideas you have on this, always value your input.
I think I saw where New Hampshire has called in national guard for this, so perhaps we are heading that direction.
I think in an ideal world, the federal government brings the stakeholders in - well in advance to discuss logistics with states and private providers. The key players develop protocols and best practices for everyone to follow. Then there is coordinated communication around vaccine distribution- with maybe a centralized committee whose job is to resolve issues in the supply chain.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Maybe national guard or wartime production, defense production act, mandatory National guidelines for prioritization instead of allowing States to do this on their own. I’m not an expert on this and am not the person to solve this problem. I don’t see how 50 different plans is the best route.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
That’s great to hear. Having State or National Guard to administer more would be a start. For example, Michigan has received 378k vaccines but only administered 99k. Texas has received a million doses but administered only 374k. Also what kind of systems are in place to make sure people get appointments and don’t miss them? What kind of systems are in place to make sure people show up for the follow up vaccination?
The Commish
Footballguy
It's just like the mandate orders. Our federal government provides a consistent list of expectations based on meetings and input from the states. They help remove issues standing in the states' way of getting things done. A state level vision is sufficient...punting to the local municipalities to "figure it out" isn't necessary. It's lazy. There are NOT many (any?) states that have such varying circumstances that would warrant that sort of action. This, of course, needed to start in March/April like it did in just about all the other countries and would include things like making sure storage was in place to keep the vaccine doses safe and staffing up to make sure we have people to deploy the vaccines.
The Commish
Footballguy
You totally missed the sarcasm of my post....it's a free for all in my county. There is no system for appointments. I have no idea how they are going to make sure people show up for their follow up. I'm not sure my state even believes the second dose is necessary. After the initial comments from my governor, he's kept his mouth shut since. Again, no semblance of a plan at a state level. You have to be lucky to be in a county that is organized to have any sort of idea what's going on.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I dont think anybody would argue with the bold. I was more asking how do you eliminate that.
I am not familiar with all the laws involved with this kind of stuff and I don't know how this works. I dont think it is as simple as demanding they follow guidance. I mean Florida isn't exactly going to just say whatever you guys want us to do. Same with CA. If they disagree with your plan, how do you make it happen? Maybe it is as simple as just mandating it, but from what I remember about national mask mandate chatter, I don't think that is the case, which is why I think Biden has now softened his stance there.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
I can't answer this until we discuss what qualifies them being "bad" at it and how that's measured/compared....are we going against a standard of perfection? From everything I've read, most everyone is going the same path, it's just a question of how far down the path everyone is. We seem to be multiple unresolved issues behind just about everyone else.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I think that if federal guidance existed, states would almost certainly follow it. Even if only because it takes the state decision makers off the hook.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
They lead. They fund the administrative cost. They provide resources and guidance. They use existing infrastructures. They make mistakes and scramble to fix them.
As for 2009 . Seems like a lot of ignored lessons (except for maybe not relying on egg based vaccines .)
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I think like 30 countries so far have shots in arms. Only Bahrain(4%), Israel(12%), and the UK(1.5%) have a higher % of population vaccinated as far as I know. US is at 1.4%
So if we start with the premise the US has done poorly, which I think we all agree, then how would we not say almost everybody else is doing poorly too?
Especially since lets not forget I am replying to your comment about how almost every other country was making plans and putting things like storage in place back in May or whatever month you said.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I posted that same link a couple weeks ago with a slightly more sarcastic tone about learning lessons.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
I'm not sure it's fair to use "% of population vaccinated" as a proxy for "vaccine distribution planning and performance", as not all countries have equal access to the vaccine. That is, US companies offered doses to the US government first, then additional doses to other countries as available. I don't know for sure, but I suspect the UK company did the same for UK.
"% of vaccines obtained that have been distributed" isn't a great barometer either. As an absurd example, a fictional country that was only able to obtain two doses and managed to administer them may or may not have had a reasonable plan, but we couldn't know from info provided.
Outside of reading the actual plans and making a subjective judgment, I'm not sure there's a good method to judge those plans, and even that doesn't help with judging performance on executing the plans.
The Commish
Footballguy
And this is why I asked my initial question. Personally, I come at this from a different perspective. Because if we go with the above, then we're assuming that everyone has the equal amount of doses sitting there....it's just "who gets it out the fastest" kind of thing, and that I'm not really interested in. We are leading the world in doses procured and sitting, waiting to be administered (and even THAT isn't a really good indicator of success/failure). I can give a laundry list of possible/probable excuses for why any particular % population is what it is, starting with access/availability to that country and then trickling down to understaffing and bottlenecks in the pipeline. Now, if all these other countries have a ton of doses sitting around waiting to be administered because they have no national distribution plan or they are waiting on infrastructure to be in place so the vaccines can be stored etc, then they are at the same spot and I don't really know the answer to your question. I can't fathom how this would be happening given all the time they've had to plan this.
But I don't really see how any of this hinges on my comment that we've had months and months to figure things out....as I said before, everyone seems to be on the same path, just different points on that path. That doesn't mean further up the path there aren't bottlenecks that happen and need to be addressed...all of which contribute to your "% of the population" lens. It's a tough question to answer without looking at each individual country.
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shader
Footballguy
What if we don't start with the premise that the US has done poorly, but just hasn't ironed out the inefficiencies. I realize this is the political forum, but every problem doesn't exist because Trump sucks.
shader
Footballguy
Is there any evidence that the National Guard has the ability to distribute this vaccine in a way that is quicker than it currently is being distributed?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I’m sure we will get it to be more efficient in the near future. And I agree it’s not all Trump’s fault. He is doing himself and the country no favors though. His messaging and PR on this issue is abysmal. Basically a step by step guide of how not to be the face of the response to a national emergency.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
If that’s your standard than our current process is the quickest way to administer the vaccine because it’s the only way we have any evidence for. National Guard is designed for large scale emergencies. I don’t see how having more people assist with logistics, data collection and administering would do anything but speed the process up.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I don't think the vaccine rollout being done poorly so far is due to Trump. He hasnt helped it, but I think mostly these things just get done poorly. Pretty much everywhere. Government isnt usually very efficient. Especially with controversial topics.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Lets just stick to the EU and UK then.
The EU passed on a 500 million extra dose offer from Pfizer. If you recall their was lots of criticism when the US also passed on such an offer.
As far as Moderna availability, we wont know that until the EU actually approves Moderna. They have ordered 80 million I believe.
I’ll agree that there wasn’t much the federal government could do to prevent this. But the partnership with Walgreens and CVS to immunize the nursing homes is a good example of a federal program that has seemed to be successful across many states. I’m not sure if that could be replicated with other parts of the rollouts but imagine if they had left the nursing home rollout to the states.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
This matches what I'm hearing from fairly intelligent colleagues overseas. I reached out to friends in UK, Singapore, Denmark, Norway and Germany. All of them -- even the friend in Germany -- said very similar things like "we don't really know how the rollout will work yet" or "we haven't even really started to think about the vaccination logistics yet." I chose friends in those countries because a couple of them are good proxies for the US in terms of being large enough to matter (UK, Germany); a couple are Scandinavian and typically well-functioning bureaucracies (Denmark, Norway); a couple are known as hyper-efficient and uber-organized (Singapore, Germany).
It's bizarre that we've known for 9 months that vaccines would be developed, yet nobody was able to come up with the basic logistical organization to manage this stuff. It really isn't rocket science.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Maybe the issues are related to the deep cold chain requirements? And the only recent apptoval of the vaccines?That's the only thing i can think of.
EU hasn't even approved Moderna yet, right?
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Nah. The vaccines have been created at a remarkable speed. I hope people can truly appreciate and celebrate that.
sho nuff
Footballguy
That wasn’t all that warp speed was about...including some that never took funds in development.
sho nuff
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Would it be a surprise to you that the more bodies you have to get the vaccine out, the faster they can get it out?
It's not like we have a bunch of workers sitting around....one of the main bottlenecks is the amount of people to give the vaccine...the more people you have to administer it, the less of a bottleneck it is.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Gotta pay them though... Have the feds offered to pay for temp workers to help administer the vaccines in mass vaccination campaigns?Would it be a surprise to you that the more bodies you have to get the vaccine out, the faster they can get it out?
It's not like we have a bunch of workers sitting around....one of the main bottlenecks is the amount of people to give the vaccine...the more people you have to administer it, the less of a bottleneck it is.
I assume that is one of he reasons that the national guard is activated. Doesn't the federal government foot the bill for their wages?
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
The storage requirements are kind of wild. No way was anybody making massive spends for that before knowing it was approved.
Deciding who gets it first is also very dependent on the efficacy by age range.
Lots of factors.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
We need look no further than testing. National guard sites processed a ton of tests. In WI the turn around from those sites was next day for the three people I know that went.Would it be a surprise to you that the more bodies you have to get the vaccine out, the faster they can get it out?
It's not like we have a bunch of workers sitting around....one of the main bottlenecks is the amount of people to give the vaccine...the more people you have to administer it, the less of a bottleneck it is.
The Commish
Footballguy
Sure....that's a small price to pay given we have unlimited funds at our disposal these days.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Sure. But that’s the type of details that I’ve seen time & again prevent organizations (private and public) from sketching out high level implementation plans and being able to answer basic questions on a range of topics.
Governments should have been able to answer this question months ago: “how will I be informed that I’m due to get a vaccine when the time comes?”
Nobody needs to know anything about storage requirements to answer that basic question.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Why arent numbers plummeting in CA?
I mean they closed outdoor dining, that should have licked covid in a flash.
I mean they closed outdoor dining, that should have licked covid in a flash.
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