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Government Response To The Coronavirus (10 Viewers)

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lockdowns don't reduce the spread of the virus?  now i've heard it all.  it's just one conspiracy theory after another with these people.  we have a poster in here who effectively has shown he denies science (in this and other threads) arguing with an actual doctor.  bananas.

 
The bolded is not true.  There is one study, from quite a long time ago, saying this.  The author of that study has significant conflicts of interest.  All other studies show that lockdowns do reduce spread.

This really is simple.  Mitigation strategies (e.g. masks, social distancing) that help reduce the spread of COVID also greatly reduce the spread of flu.  We predicted this long ago.

400K deaths is undercounting the impact of COVID.  We know this from the difference in expected deaths year over year.  You're just repeating information that has repeatedly been shown to be false, instead of looking at reliable sources of information.
The most recent one they are latching on too is basically saying "not locking down and doing the right thing yields the same result in locking down and doing the right thing".  The key to both is the "doing the right thing" part that they gloss over and ignore to make the headline read something the study doesn't even come close to saying.

 
It is a conspiracy and a stupid one at that. 
its a conspiracy alright - just not the one you think it is

we were all told shutdowns would matter - it didn't but it DID killed tens of thousands of small businesses, drove millions to poverty and high unemployment and added trillions to deficit

we were all told 6' and masks - and covid cases have exploded right ?

maybe the people telling us all this are just really uneducated/uninformed people but I don't believe that. I believe they knew what they were doing, and what they results would be

is that a conspiracy ?

a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful. the action of plotting or conspiring.

(of events or circumstances) seem to be working together to bring about a particular result, typically to someone's detriment.

I submit Democrats knew plunging the USA into a deep recession, killing jobs and businesses, rising unemployment and of course the deaths .... all that could be used for political gain. 

What else am I to believe, they simply didn't know the outcome of their actions ?   lol 

No, and in the coming months, they will undo all they did and claim they saved the world - the very world they created with their actions

and people will believe it

 
lockdowns don't reduce the spread of the virus?  now i've heard it all.  it's just one conspiracy theory after another with these people.  we have a poster in here who effectively has shown he denies science (in this and other threads) arguing with an actual doctor.  bananas.
serious question - you think the lockdowns stopped covid and masks and social distancing have ?

trust science

https://www.newsweek.com/covid-lockdowns-have-no-clear-benefit-vs-other-voluntary-measures-international-study-shows-1561656?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&fbclid=IwAR3WlAROpxOGzWJ_Z4zKX0NIE2-xR7fM_Ukl2pJhZ7br5vtDHumPz7M6cTc#Echobox=1610642799

 
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did you even read your own article?
no....he didn't....and if he did, he didn't understand what it was actually saying

The most recent one they are latching on too is basically saying "not locking down and doing the right thing yields the same result in locking down and doing the right thing".  The key to both is the "doing the right thing" part that they gloss over and ignore to make the headline read something the study doesn't even come close to saying.

 
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Yea, it is pretty legit to argue whether we are better off financially, emotionally, etc. but there really isn't an argument that locking down (in whatever fashion we did or did not) saved lives. 

 
Gotta love this continued argument:

”COVID is no big deal, it’s just another flu.”

Response: COVID is more contagious than the flu and has much more severe and long lasting symptoms.

”Where did the flu go? They must be diagnosing all flu cases as COVID!”

Response: Mitigation strategies like mask wearing, better hand hygiene and social distancing have significantly decreased the spread of the flu and other common viruses.

”I thought you said COVID was so bad because people aren’t wearing their masks and are gathering too often. Shouldn’t the flu be running wild too?”

Response: COVID spreads much more aggressively than the flu. Mitigation strategies that are good enough to slow the flu, aren’t enough to stop COVID.

This flu season is proving how much worse COVID is. 

 
Stealthycat said:
its a conspiracy alright - just not the one you think it is

we were all told shutdowns would matter - it didn't but it DID killed tens of thousands of small businesses, drove millions to poverty and high unemployment and added trillions to deficit

we were all told 6' and masks - and covid cases have exploded right ?

maybe the people telling us all this are just really uneducated/uninformed people but I don't believe that. I believe they knew what they were doing, and what they results would be

is that a conspiracy ?

a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful. the action of plotting or conspiring.

(of events or circumstances) seem to be working together to bring about a particular result, typically to someone's detriment.

I submit Democrats knew plunging the USA into a deep recession, killing jobs and businesses, rising unemployment and of course the deaths .... all that could be used for political gain. 

What else am I to believe, they simply didn't know the outcome of their actions ?   lol 

No, and in the coming months, they will undo all they did and claim they saved the world - the very world they created with their actions

and people will believe it
You really need to stop spreading lies and false information. Anyone with an ounce of sense would realize all that you are posting is debunked nonsense.

 
You really need to stop spreading lies and false information. Anyone with an ounce of sense would realize all that you are posting is debunked nonsense.
shutdown failed to stop covid, sent tens of thousands of businesses out of business, added millions to unemployment - that's 100% true and factual

we've worn masks more in the past year than the past 100 years ..... did that stop covid? No, that's not false information either

people can make the argument that we'd be worse off - and that's a guess, its not factual and the article I posted says

"The researchers used a mathematical model to compare countries that did and did not enact more restrictive lockdown orders, and determined that there was "no clear, significant beneficial effect of [more restrictive measures] on case growth in any country.""

yes, there are other articles that says otherwise - which is why its all guessing right now as what really has an impact and what doesn't

 
we've worn masks more in the past year than the past 100 years ..... did that stop covid? No, that's not false information either
There was nobody that said wearing masks would stop covid. The goal of mask wearing and distancing is to slow the spread. And we actually did that. Of course many of us wish that others would have taken the mask wearing and distancing more seriously so that the slow would have been more obvious. But it has been said from just about day one that we needed a vaccine to completely stop the spread

 
shutdown failed to stop covid, sent tens of thousands of businesses out of business, added millions to unemployment - that's 100% true and factual

we've worn masks more in the past year than the past 100 years ..... did that stop covid? No, that's not false information either

people can make the argument that we'd be worse off - and that's a guess, its not factual and the article I posted says

"The researchers used a mathematical model to compare countries that did and did not enact more restrictive lockdown orders, and determined that there was "no clear, significant beneficial effect of [more restrictive measures] on case growth in any country.""

yes, there are other articles that says otherwise - which is why its all guessing right now as what really has an impact and what doesn't
All of this you have posted has been debunked. Please stop. You are clinging to one article that was thoroughly lambasted by healthcare professionals and your and its conclusions are specious at best. Honestly, your posts are so disingenuous it makes me think they are being generated by some AI bot.

 
There was nobody that said wearing masks would stop covid. The goal of mask wearing and distancing is to slow the spread. And we actually did that. Of course many of us wish that others would have taken the mask wearing and distancing more seriously so that the slow would have been more obvious. But it has been said from just about day one that we needed a vaccine to completely stop the spread


https://www.aha.org/wearamask

"We are encouraging people across the country to continue to practice safe measures to stop the spread of COVID-19."
nothing has slowed - covid has spread like wildfire

what did rcam say?  "spreading lies and false information." ?

 
All of this you have posted has been debunked. Please stop. You are clinging to one article that was thoroughly lambasted by healthcare professionals and your and its conclusions are specious at best. Honestly, your posts are so disingenuous it makes me think they are being generated by some AI bot.
Please stop

my points are valid and true and saying they're not is spreading lies and false information - shutdowns and masks were inacted and covid has spread like wildfire - those are facts

I think posts like yours is just a refusal to admit failure - shutdowns killed tens of thousands of small businesses, put millions out of work and for what good? There are no real factual evidences that it made a difference - Biden and Democrats and our Govt leaders shut this economy/country down when covid was at what, 40,000 assumed deaths? Now its 400,000 and Biden/Dems/Govt are saying no more shutdowns, that won't make a difference

Knowing that, why are people STILL clinging to the initial shutdowns as having any impacts at all ? we can GUESS that they MIGHT have .... but there is no factual proofs

masks .... everyone wears them with few exceptions and covid continues  - masks, no masks ......... covid has spread like wildfire

can we guess masks have slowed the spread? sure - we can suggest a lot of things but that doesn't make them fact or real

 
I've not decided if I'll get the vaccine or not. Its my body, I should be able to decide what I want to do with it. I suspect the Govt will put in place bans on travel, grocery stores, etc and pretty much force people .... we'll see

 
I've not decided if I'll get the vaccine or not. Its my body, I should be able to decide what I want to do with it. I suspect the Govt will put in place bans on travel, grocery stores, etc and pretty much force people .... we'll see
I hope you are pro abortion

 
I've not decided if I'll get the vaccine or not. Its my body, I should be able to decide what I want to do with it. I suspect the Govt will put in place bans on travel, grocery stores, etc and pretty much force people .... we'll see
Well actions have consequences. This lesson has played out a few times in recent weeks if you haven't been paying attention.

 
I hope you are pro abortion
are you pro-life ?

my close relative's husband is immune compromised - he yesterday took one shot, she the other ..... (Moderans/Phizer) .... anyone she was saying in the future they're not going to be around anyone who's not had the shots. they're afraid of the 0-10% chance they're not immune 

I didn't argue with her - but what she was really saying is that if I don't bow to her/societies bullying and get vaccinated, I'll not be able to in person have a relationship with her anymore. Threatening that was a surprise to me.

Ironically people like me .... I don't care if you have covid, had covid, are vaccinated, not vaccinated etc ..... I'm not forcing anyone to do anything.

it'll be interesting to see how society reacts - its going to split a lot of families in pieces

 
Well actions have consequences. This lesson has played out a few times in recent weeks if you haven't been paying attention.
so you believe the Fed Govt should be able to put pressures on people to do things they want them to do - as far as even forcing them to put things in their body etc ?

fascinating view ... tell me more

 
I'm old enough to remember when the "if we do nothing at all there will be between 1-2 million deaths in this country" survey was used by a group here to essentially say "see, what we did kept it to only a couple hundred thousand".  Now the goalposts are moving again mischaracterizing an article that is saying "there's no real meaningful difference between people doing the right thing on their own and doing the right thing because they were locked down".  Such an ugly and gross mischaracterization given we just passed the 400K mark in deaths with no end in sight.  Meanwhile, there are countries almost back to "normal" who did what they should (distance, wear a mask and stay away from each other) in both "lockdowns" and "did it because it was the right thing to do" situations.

The unwillingness to see that this is spreading because we aren't doing the right thing on our own is pretty disgusting.  It's not a time to try and make others believe our actions don't matter....they do.  We wouldn't need lockdowns if we did the right thing on our own has to be the most  "duh" statement ever.  What's missed here is that in doing the right thing, thousands of businesses were STILL going to go out of business as our confidence in being out and about is predicated on spread.   We get more confident to go out as the numbers go down.  The numbers go down because we stay away from each other and wear masks.  Probably the least complicated thing to understand ever, yet here we are completely mischaracterizing and shoving around goalposts :doh:  

 
Fair to assume that you do not work in healthcare? Your indignant and self-righteous lack of compassion for others makes this glaringly obvious. But I’d expect you to be in the front of the line when you need help. Best of luck. 
I wear my mask when around people who wish it - I wear a mask in public. I don't go around people who are afraid

How does that make me any of the names you called me? 

 
Meanwhile, there are countries almost back to "normal" who did what they should (distance, wear a mask and stay away from each other) in both "lockdowns" and "did it because it was the right thing to do" situations.
those are not the only metrics involved with how a population gets through covid

you know that of course 

USA has distanced, shut down and stayed away from each other since March 2020

our numbers have increased every month

 
those are not the only metrics involved with how a population gets through covid

you know that of course 

USA has distanced, shut down and stayed away from each other since March 2020

our numbers have increased every month
I don't even know what the first sentence is supposed to mean but neither of the bold are true and you know that....fish somewhere else please.  not interested

 
those are not the only metrics involved with how a population gets through covid

you know that of course 

USA has distanced, shut down and stayed away from each other since March 2020

our numbers have increased every month
But, we haven't, right?

People aren't wearing masks strictly.  People are still going to beaches and standing/sitting on top of each other.  We've had some state shut downs, but they haven't been permanent shut downs for the past year.

To state that we've done it effectively is just false.

 
are you pro-life ?

my close relative's husband is immune compromised - he yesterday took one shot, she the other ..... (Moderans/Phizer) .... anyone she was saying in the future they're not going to be around anyone who's not had the shots. they're afraid of the 0-10% chance they're not immune 

I didn't argue with her - but what she was really saying is that if I don't bow to her/societies bullying and get vaccinated, I'll not be able to in person have a relationship with her anymore. Threatening that was a surprise to me.

Ironically people like me .... I don't care if you have covid, had covid, are vaccinated, not vaccinated etc ..... I'm not forcing anyone to do anything.

it'll be interesting to see how society reacts - its going to split a lot of families in pieces
I'm not pro life but am also not sure if I get a vaccine 

You can't be pro life and say I won't wear a mask or won't get a vaccine because it's my body my choice

And I'm in favor of the death penalty....

 
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But, we haven't, right?

People aren't wearing masks strictly.  People are still going to beaches and standing/sitting on top of each other.  We've had some state shut downs, but they haven't been permanent shut downs for the past year.

To state that we've done it effectively is just false.
yes this country shut down  - weeks and longer in come places

wearing masks are at all time highs

social distancing exists, most "gatherings" have stopped be it carnivals to rodeo's to high school sports to concerts etc

and covid is raging on and on almost as if the things we are all being told to do to help isn't making any differences at all

the shutdowns clearly failed - what did king Biden say recently ? no shutdowns, schools open etc  - they know it doesn't work 

 
so you believe the Fed Govt should be able to put pressures on people to do things they want them to do - as far as even forcing them to put things in their body etc ?

fascinating view ... tell me more
That's not at all what I said. I said, actions have consequences. You have every right to not get the vaccine, thousands of people do it every year. Your body, your choice is I believe how you put it, correct? I have no problems with that but understand, because of that action, there will be consequences. There will be places that require you to have proof of vaccination before you can enter their facility. There will be group s of people that will distance themselves or chose to not associate with you because you don't have the vaccine. Whether it's the Federal Government or Walmart, it will happen.

If you're fine with not going to a place you may need to because of your choice, I've got no problem with it. Live your life Shooter  :thumbup:

 
To take the position that you have on wearing masks and protecting lives, I believe those adjectives to be appropriate. You can object and disagree, but they are nonetheless true. 
 

And oh my gosh, thank you so much for condescending to wear a mask around the rest of us. You are a true patriot. 
my position on protecting lives ?

I question why the shutdown happened when nobody really thought it'd stop or slow covid (and it didn't)

I question wearing masks to stop or slow covid (and it hasn't)

I question a rushed vaccine and the bullying from people to make others take it.

none of the above is about my views on protecting lives - if you want them, ask about abortion, tobacco, auto fatalities, drug fatalities and the big one - obesity and we can discuss all that if you'd like

covid-19 hasn't even killed as many as cigarette smoking does - its only 20% of what obesity kills every year .... its half of the deaths abortions cause

can I use the same names you do to address people who have different views on those ? 

 
That's not at all what I said. I said, actions have consequences. You have every right to not get the vaccine, thousands of people do it every year. Your body, your choice is I believe how you put it, correct? I have no problems with that but understand, because of that action, there will be consequences. There will be places that require you to have proof of vaccination before you can enter their facility. There will be group s of people that will distance themselves or chose to not associate with you because you don't have the vaccine. Whether it's the Federal Government or Walmart, it will happen.

If you're fine with not going to a place you may need to because of your choice, I've got no problem with it. Live your life Shooter  :thumbup:
fantastic

so if the Fed Govt were to tell you you had to so ___ or ____

you're ok with all that right ?  don't question it - just accept it as actions/consequences ?  that's how you think it should all roll ?

I'm serious too - I want to know if you draw any lines or if you would on what the Fed Govt tells you to do 

 
those are not the only metrics involved with how a population gets through covid

you know that of course 

USA has distanced, shut down and stayed away from each other since March 2020

our numbers have increased every month
Not really.   Almost every person I know in Wisconsin has behaved the same in 2020 as they did in 2019.  So no, we haven't distanced, shut down and stayed away from each other.   It must be some type of magic that has led to Australia, Singapore and South Korea experiencing  way way way fewer cases and deaths than us.   Pure magic.

 
fantastic

so if the Fed Govt were to tell you you had to so ___ or ____

you're ok with all that right ?  don't question it - just accept it as actions/consequences ?  that's how you think it should all roll ?

I'm serious too - I want to know if you draw any lines or if you would on what the Fed Govt tells you to do 
I'm well aware you are serious, i think we all are.

Do i accept everything the Federal government mandates across the board? No. Do I do research and try to understand what is driving the mandate and the science/data behind it? Yes. In this case, I'm good with the vaccine, will get it when offered to me and happily move on with my life.

If you chose not to get the vaccine, I don't have a problem with it. Will you be restricted because of that choice? I don't know but I assume so at some point. Do i support that? Depends I guess. Do I want an unvaccinated person hanging out with Nanna at the old folks home? No. Should you be excluded from going to Walmart? Definitely not. Is there a #### ton of nuance in between those two examples? Absolutely. It won't be an all or nothing proposition, if it is then I would be against that.

 
Not really.   Almost every person I know in Wisconsin has behaved the same in 2020 as they did in 2019.  So no, we haven't distanced, shut down and stayed away from each other.   It must be some type of magic that has led to Australia, Singapore and South Korea experiencing  way way way fewer cases and deaths than us.   Pure magic.
Oh come on! We all know that Stealthycat’s anecdotal evidence is representative of the entire country. Stop spreading lies!!!

 
Not really.   Almost every person I know in Wisconsin has behaved the same in 2020 as they did in 2019.  So no, we haven't distanced, shut down and stayed away from each other.   It must be some type of magic that has led to Australia, Singapore and South Korea experiencing  way way way fewer cases and deaths than us.   Pure magic.
then your WI has massively higher numbers of covid-19 infections and deaths than other states right ?   I mean a very noticeable difference ?

or  .......... are ya'll doing about like everyone else is ?

 
Why do you guys continue to entertain and respond to him?  It's the same thing over and over and over. Despite being on many ignore lists, others that continue to quote and respond when there's no genuine attempt in discourse only continues to muck up the thread.

Just ignore and move on.
I love your response - you do not agree with me, don't want to see my point of views, so not only are you going to ignore, but you demand everyone else to as well so you can live in an echo chamber. I have never understood going to a message board where everyone is a lemming ..... I want to see others opinions and views, challenge my own etc. 

I guess each there own 

 
Do i accept everything the Federal government mandates across the board? No. Do I do research and try to understand what is driving the mandate and the science/data behind it? Yes. In this case, I'm good with the vaccine, will get it when offered to me and happily move on with my life.

If you chose not to get the vaccine, I don't have a problem with it. Will you be restricted because of that choice? I don't know but I assume so at some point. Do i support that? Depends I guess. Do I want an unvaccinated person hanging out with Nanna at the old folks home? No. Should you be excluded from going to Walmart? Definitely not. Is there a #### ton of nuance in between those two examples? Absolutely. It won't be an all or nothing proposition, if it is then I would be against that.
but we don't know WHAT the future propositions will be

if I told you in 2012 years ago that in 2020 the Govt would shut down almost all businesses, kill the economy, shut down restaurants, mandate masks, allow pharmaceuticals to develop mRNA vaccines rush rush with no consequences if they get it wrong plus all the other stuff we've seen and you'd probably have called me crazy !

but ... for the sake of argument ....

2,500,000 people die of obesity every year, the cost is enormous. What if the Fed Govt wanted to set it so that if you reach above a BMI you'd be restricted on things - the goal is to make you healthier and safer, their goals are YOUR health. Heavily restrict smoking too. Maybe alcohol. No bans - no "making" you do anything .... but if you don't comply, you lose your health care, your privilege's to buy things or travel etc

far fetched? maybe ... maybe not .... we will see just how far this is going to go with Biden and Democrats at the helm

 
but we don't know WHAT the future propositions will be

if I told you in 2012 years ago that in 2020 the Govt would shut down almost all businesses, kill the economy, shut down restaurants, mandate masks, allow pharmaceuticals to develop mRNA vaccines rush rush with no consequences if they get it wrong plus all the other stuff we've seen and you'd probably have called me crazy !

but ... for the sake of argument ....

2,500,000 people die of obesity every year, the cost is enormous. What if the Fed Govt wanted to set it so that if you reach above a BMI you'd be restricted on things - the goal is to make you healthier and safer, their goals are YOUR health. Heavily restrict smoking too. Maybe alcohol. No bans - no "making" you do anything .... but if you don't comply, you lose your health care, your privilege's to buy things or travel etc

far fetched? maybe ... maybe not .... we will see just how far this is going to go with Biden and Democrats at the helm
So you’re saying that the govt is not taking steps to reduce the number of deaths from smoking and obesity?

 
I believe that a lot of people but into conspiracy theories because it is really hard to accept a situation really sucks. It's hard to accept that we have been dealing with a horrible situation for almost a year. We've tried different things that were supposed to help, but here we are, still enduring COVID. So conspiracy theories start to sneak their way in... "It's really not that bad... The government is just trying to control us.", "China released this as a way to control population", "The dems did it to get Trump out of office." and on and on. And people start to think.. "YEAH! This was supposed to be better now! We tried all these things! It must be true!"

Because it is easier to believe that things are being manipulated around us than to accept that we are stuck in a horrible situation where people are STILL dying. Where people have lost their jobs and businesses. And it HAS to be someone's fault. Because otherwise, we are just stuck in a situation that sucks. We do it all the time when a loved one dies unexpectedly and we look for blame. How did this happen? Did the doctor screw up? Was he (loved one who died) exposed to something where he worked? etc.

Sometimes life situations suck and there isn't someone to blame. 

 
Not really.   Almost every person I know in Wisconsin has behaved the same in 2020 as they did in 2019.  So no, we haven't distanced, shut down and stayed away from each other.   It must be some type of magic that has led to Australia, Singapore and South Korea experiencing  way way way fewer cases and deaths than us.   Pure magic.
I take it you live outside of Dane Co?

It's better now, but it was bonkers for a bit in the summer/fall.  We would have places with rules in place around here, then go 5miles up the road to a different county and it was like nothing was going on.  

 
zoonation said:
lockdowns don't reduce the spread of the virus?  now i've heard it all.  it's just one conspiracy theory after another with these people.  we have a poster in here who effectively has shown he denies science (in this and other threads) arguing with an actual doctor.  bananas.
:lmao:   I am almost glad I got to read enough to catch all that.   The cherry on top was somebody like him with his views about a certain other top actually posting that he should be able to do what he wants with his body.  

 
I take it you live outside of Dane Co?

It's better now, but it was bonkers for a bit in the summer/fall.  We would have places with rules in place around here, then go 5miles up the road to a different county and it was like nothing was going on.  
I live in Illinois (sadly), but most of my family lives near Green Bay.  Including my cousins, who love to share 2-3x weekly photos of their dinners out at bars.

 
A federal coordination of vaccine distribution was long overdue. There should have been federal oversight of all efforts from the very beginning of COVID, and it’s so frustrating that so many unnecessary lives have been lost. But I suppose better late than never. 

 
timschochet said:
Biden’s appointee in charge of COVID warns that the number of dead Americans from this disease will exceed 500,000 by the end of February. 
This isn’t really surprising but it is a staggering number.  

 
Why do you guys continue to entertain and respond to him?  It's the same thing over and over and over. Despite being on many ignore lists, others that continue to quote and respond when there's no genuine attempt in discourse only continues to muck up the thread.

Just ignore and move on.
And this has been repeated by many of us over and over - makes the threads unreadable which is obviously his goal.  He doesn’t even pretend not to be a troll but folks keep replying.

 
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