Bogeys
Footballguy
Also, last I heard vaccinated people can possibly still spread the disease even if they don't have any symptoms themselves. This was still an unknown and being studied.
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Government Response To The Coronavirus (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter James Daulton
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urbanhack
Fight The Power!
Redwes25
Footballguy
Actually not true, they are asking people to wear masks since trials on vaccine only tested on ability to get sick from the virus. They did not test if the vaccine prevented you from catching the virus and spreading it to others.
I have mostly posted in the main Covid thread but as I have mentioned in that thread I have a very good friend who is a pediatric infectious disease Doctor and she said the current thinking is that with the approved vaccines is that you can still catch the virus and spread it to others. Given how few people have received the vaccine at this stage all people should wear masks to slow spread to folks that have not received the vaccine and could still get very ill from catching it from someone who has been vaccinated.
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Bogeys
Footballguy
I used 2 sentences to post this, yours sounds better.
I just got my second shot of the Pfizer Tuesday, no side affects from it at all.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
Early data coming out of Israel from the 2 dose BioNTech vaccine is suggesting it is effective in curbing transmission.
https://www.the-sun.com/news/2166848/first-signs-pfizer-vaccine-does-stop-spreading-covid/
Willy
Footballguy
Good to hear. It always struck me as one of those abundance of caution statements, just because we didn't know if it curbs the spread as well. If this is proven to be the case it's something that needs to be highlighted as another important reason to get the vaccine
The Commish
Footballguy
It's probably the most "water is wet" statement one could make. Isn't it rather obvious that there was no real plan in place? We were told there'd be 21 million shots in arms by the end of the year.jobarules said:
The Commish
Footballguy
I like how 21 million promised in a month is somehow a "higher" bar than 100 million in 100 days....some of you guys 
The Z Machine
Footballguy
So what is driving the difference in spread by region if it isn't mask compliance? Social distancing compliance? Bar/restaurant shutdowns? Frequency / duration / number of guests at dinner parties? Better ventilation in certain areas?parasaurolophus said:
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Bogeys
Footballguy
Just going to say that. Here Pulaski county (Little Rock), Washington county (Springdale/Fayetteville) and Benton county (Rogers/Bentonville) are almost always in the top of the daily case counts here in Arkansas and are the most densely populated so makes sense.
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
I believe that was the initial thought but there was a story in the NYT last week that that stated what I wrote. That the the threat of getting the vaccine then spreading it was extremely remote.Redwes25 said:
I'm not an expert, just relaying what I read.
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
According to the CDC's own test, asymptomatic people do need to wear face masks to protect against respiratory viruses.
After we get past the pandemic, the CDC and FDA should both be burned to the ground and we should salt the earth where they once stood so nothing can grow there again. Time to start over from scratch.
After we get past the pandemic, the CDC and FDA should both be burned to the ground and we should salt the earth where they once stood so nothing can grow there again. Time to start over from scratch.
Redwes25
Footballguy
Ok, but CDC is still recommending that people wear masks to stop spread even if you have been vaccinated and not to keep up mask compliance.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html
The Commish
Footballguy
I don't have the guts to click on the "Biden Response to the Virus" thread....I can only imagine what's going on in there based on the names I see as the "last poster" on the front page refreshes
Tom Skerritt
Footballguy
It’s not as though there is a playbook already written by other countries that have successfully controlled viral spread and infection or anything.2Squirrels1Nut said:
The Z Machine
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
What is your proposal for 1) an approval body for drugs (maybe separate from food?) and 2) a national department of public health?
Rich Conway
Footballguy
This is a good point. Lumping these together makes about as much sense as Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. Admittedly, I don't know how lumped in either of these groups are under the covers. Maybe the reporting structure immediately branches to "head of food safety" and "drug safety" and the two never really meet.
zoonation
Footballguy
Yes. There are a few wingnuts here, unfortunately more so in my province than others, that are anti-mask. But it is truly a fringe subset. And masks have been mandatory here indoors since the summer. And everyone wears one.parasaurolophus said:
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waiver wire
Footballguy
here in BC mask were not mandatory to mid nov
we have a small subset of anti maskers out here as well
i thought the bc government was doing good except for 2 decisions in September : calling the election and not making mask mandatory sooner
we have been consistently weak on contract tracing and testing throughout this as well
our vaccine rollout has been pretty bad
really disappointed by the lack of planning , they waited on how and who after the the vaccines got approved . this should have been figured out while we were waiting for approvals
The Commish
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Sounds like they are trying to procure more doses of the vaccine to have for summer....Another 200 million doses is another 100 million people. Gottlieb said that based on his observations, approx 150M will "want" to be vaccinated. So where does that leave us? Seems like by summer, all those who want to have it will be able to get it? Or am I missing something?
Willy
Footballguy
I was under the impression that we'll likely have enough for everyone, not just the 150M who are likely to want it by that point. Maybe that assumes J&J and AstraZeneca are approved. Sadly 150M leaves us short of herd immunity, really need more buy in
The Commish
Footballguy
Well, his comments were pretty specific....he fully expects this to be a mandated vaccine like others we have today, so even though people don't "want" to take it, this country and others as well as companies and schools will require it to be employees, students, visitors etc. In other words, they may not "want" it but they'll have to get it to do things they want to do or to work or to go to school.
Doug B
Footballguy
Don't forget that kids under 18 are still not approved for the vaccines. 150M is probably something like 70-75% of American adults (have to go check to be sure**).
And if/when the J&J vaccine gets approved -- that's a one-dose-and-you're-done vaccine.
** EDIT: 150M is probably more like 65-70% of American adults going by the 2010 census figures and extrapolating to a current US population estimate of 331M.
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Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
COVID anal swabs for Beijing residents more accurate, says Chinese expert
https://www.newsweek.com/covid-anal-swabs-beijing-residents-more-accurate-says-chinese-expert-1564381?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1611674970
Do they have drive thru for that?
COVID anal swabs for Beijing residents more accurate, says Chinese expert
https://www.newsweek.com/covid-anal-swabs-beijing-residents-more-accurate-says-chinese-expert-1564381?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1611674970
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Biden admin pushing for a few changes to get more jabs going: Docs can vaccinate across state lines and retired docs and nurses can vaccinate
https://twitter.com/jenkatesdc/status/1354461917641912324?s=20
Amending the PREP Act.
https://twitter.com/jenkatesdc/status/1354461917641912324?s=20
Amending the PREP Act.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
150 million vaccinated + those with natural immunity who aren’t vaccinated will probably be pretty close to the herd immunity threshold by late spring/early summer IMO.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Crazy that this didn't happen six months ago. Again, this is the kind of thing you get with basic competence in government.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Yup. I see the 7-day moving average of new cases in the U.S. (per Covid worldometers) has dropped about 35% over these past two weeks. The heightened attention and focus on the virus - and benefits of the vaccinations? - would seem to be contributing factors. Amazing what happens when we fight this virus instead of trying to ignore it.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
I thought Biden needed at least a week before taking any blame for anything. We handing out credit though? Wouldn't this go hand in hand with the WHO changing what they designate as Covid and what they don't?
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Hence the "seem to be." Maybe it is a WHO designation ...dunno. Just pleased to see, and hopeful of, the trend.
The Commish
Footballguy
Posted up thread about the WHO "change"...it's not what it was framed to be here. Not even close.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
tri-man 47
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Yes, it's a good sign of the thinking from the feds in charge of this now.
But there's a long way to go on competent governance. I got into it last night with my wife about why the state of MD didn't create a central clearinghouse for MD residents to register to receive a vaccine. As it stands, each individual must a) determine if they meet the current vaccination tier criteria, b) identify entities that are giving a vaccine, c) register at each of those entities one by one. There's a ton of leg-work that each individual must do to get a vax if their employer (or residence facility) doesn't give it to them. Plus, it is a huge equity issue in that those that have access and skills necessary to navigate multiple systems.
We knew vaccines were coming 6+ months ago. We knew the approximate earliest timing and most likely time frame they would be rolled out. We knew the production ramp for those vaccines. We knew the likely order of tiers for vaccination. Maybe we didn't know the exact allocation for each state, but it wasn't that hard to extrapolate out from demographic data.
So, why didn't the state of MD put forth the effort to centralize this vaccination effort? There should have been a big push to get everyone in Tier 1 registered prior to a vaccine being available. But that didn't happen.
My wife said that state and local public health officials were overwhelmed with dealing with the actual epidemic and didn't have anyone to focus on these areas. I say it was a dereliction of duty not to reassign people from other areas in the state bureaucracy or hire outside people or get people seconded from private industry to assist. This was a PANDEMIC that is killing thousands and crushing businesses. We should have done a lot better.
Makes me really angry.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
The state of New York actually had a vaccine rollout program in place. Had received big grants for it even.
They scrapped it.
That chapter probably got left out of the book.
They scrapped it.
That chapter probably got left out of the book.
dawgtrails
Footballguy
Here in MN there is a ####### lottery for those aged 65 and over. A vaccine lottery. gosh darnit
The Z Machine
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
dgreen
Footballguy
Yeah, seems like a dumb approach.
All that's needed is a decent contact strategy. I assume just about everyone who is in the most need of the vaccine has been to a doctor in the last few years. So, put money in the COVID relief bill to go to doctors offices to proactively reach out to their patients to schedule an appointment. I assume that's a better solution than consolidating names and phone numbers from all the doctors office and handling the contact centrally.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
County officials who have for years been planning for a mass vaccination said they are seeing that training and preparation — much of it funded by millions of dollars in federal grants — pushed aside as the administration of Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo has retained control of the state's coronavirus vaccination program, including having hospitals rather than local health departments administer the doses.
Interviews with multiple county officials over the past week confirm that many are unclear why the governor's administration has not activated the county-by-county system, a plan that included recent practice sessions in which members of the public received regular flu vaccines at drive-thru sites.
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Yeah, to be clear, I'm not advocating for a lottery system. We can do better than that. But a lottery would be preferable to some overly-complicated tier-based system that slows down vaccine distribution, and it does have the virtue of being undeniably fair in the sense that nobody can easily do any line-cutting. (I'm not personally worried about line-cutting because every shot in every arm benefits me even if the shot isn't going in my arm, but I get that most people don't see it that way).
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Shots in arms, shots in arms. Should have been the only focus. This dumb equity tangent is going to lead to more deaths, even in the groups that they are pretending to care about.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I don't totally disagree with the sentiment, but I don't think the epidemic modeling would bear out your conclusion if taken to the extreme.
Assume equal infection prevalence across all groups.
Vaccines are rolled out in equal amounts each day such that it takes 6 months to distribute all doses to all people.
Group A is 75% of the population and gets 100% of the vaccine
Group B is 25% of the population and gets 0% of the vaccine
Which group has more adverse health outcomes after 6 months? Even this simple model is relatively complex, but the results should be pretty obvious.
Also, by baking in inequity and actively showing that the health authorities don't care about equity, those groups that have historically been marginalized by government and society are likely to see lower vaccination compliance in addition to lower access. That would make these groups even more susceptible to outbreaks within a community. I think some level of equity discussion is necessary due to human behavior and variable access across groups. It should not be the be-all-end-all metric however.
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