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Government Response To The Coronavirus


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4 hours ago, rockaction said:

I've read maybe two articles and it's immediately clear. Cuomo hid deaths from the public and underreported their number. His own AG turned him in. This is a huge story. It should be the lead almost everywhere. Forget him. The calls for impeachment don't even sound politically motivated, as he claims. This sounds like a man nobody can trust. This should be his last gasp of air in public office.

Disgusting.

Yep. Was a fan, but he needs to go.

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This is going to be a one off post because I don't want to get trolled or banned but if I were American, the context of Canada would be the biggest damning fact of how things have been handled in the

Australia has had months of little to no community spread and even then it was confined to one state. By and large Australians are running around doing the right thing, sport was and is still hap

I am confident we are going to hit >750K deaths.  I think it might be a million.  I don't post a ton but I'm an ER doc in a big city. This is by far the worse I've seen since the pandemic star

50 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

I really doubt we see any movement towards only 1 dose for Moderna or Pfizer. More likely we will see the one dose Johnson and Johnson being used for the lower risk patients and save the other vaccines for high risk.

Given that we have purchased 600 million Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, I don't think J&J is a big part of the plan

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36 minutes ago, Apple Jack said:
1 hour ago, dawgtrails said:

Seems odd to complain that schools need to open, then when we finally get around to vaccinating the teachers and staff, you then complain that they are changing course because they are pushing for opening.

One might suggest it disingenuous

Ignorance is bliss for you guys huh?

 

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31 minutes ago, Drunken Cowboy said:

Given that we have purchased 600 million Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, I don't think J&J is a big part of the plan

I don't really see how the amount of Pfizer and Moderna purchased is at all relevant to whether or not we rely on the J&J vaccine.   If we can get 50-100m doses of J&J by say, June, that would be huge.    I would gladly sign up for a J&J shot in April or May.

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6 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

Moderna is 92% effective after two weeks of one dose (smaller data set than main study). 

The lower number counts the two weeks immediately following vaccination. 

I have posted this several times and of course it is always met with people telling me I don't know what I am talking about. But if you really want to read about it look at page 28 of the Moderna FDA briefing docs for the relevant info.

If you count the first two weeks after first vaccination for your data sets, it isnt really fair to compare the one dose efficacy to the 2 dose efficacy. The 95% number is based on 6 weeks after first dose. So it is a subset that has already eliminated the infections that are being counted against the single dose group. 

 

 

Thanks for continuing to post this.   It is very frustrating to see these stats continue to be misrepresented by the media (and to some extent the scientific/medical community).   

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1 hour ago, dawgtrails said:

Seems odd to complain that schools need to open, then when we finally get around to vaccinating the teachers and staff, you then complain that they are changing course because they are pushing for opening.

Vaccinating teachers doesnt have anything to do with it. It's not a requirement in the guidelines.   

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3 minutes ago, tonydead said:

It is not part of the guidelines. You should read them. Schools are allowed to open without teachers being vaccinated.  

All teachers who want the vaccine will have it. Nearly all will have it. They are allowing the relative handful who don’t get it to teach because the overwhelming majority of teachers have gotten the vaccine, making conditions exponentially safer than they were before the vaccine. But then you knew this because you’re not an idiot. Just disingenuous.

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Just now, Apple Jack said:

All teachers who want the vaccine will have it. Nearly all will have it. They are allowing the relative handful who don’t get it to teach because the overwhelming majority of teachers have gotten the vaccine, making conditions exponentially safer than they were before the vaccine. But then you knew this because you’re not an idiot. Just disingenuous.

Zero of what you described is in the guidelines. Perhaps that's your local experience or something?  Teachers under 50 arent even eligible where I'm at yet, yet according to the CDC, can and should return to the classroom. 

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Just now, tonydead said:

Zero of what you described is in the guidelines. Perhaps that's your local experience or something?  Teachers under 50 arent even eligible where I'm at yet, yet according to the CDC, can and should return to the classroom. 

Every teacher I know is vaccinated.

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1 minute ago, Apple Jack said:

Every teacher I know is vaccinated.

Like I said. You're going off some local anecdotal information and not what is actually in the guidelines. You should read them with the understanding that many areas do not have their teachers vaccinated yet, nor is it a requirement of the guidelines. 

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Here’s reality.  Urban kids are missing out on education because of the pandemic.  Result is increasing income inequality..,  

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Just now, tonydead said:

Like I said. You're going off some local anecdotal information and not what is actually in the guidelines. You should read them with the understanding that many areas do not have their teachers vaccinated yet, nor is it a requirement of the guidelines. 

Right, because they have been doing virtual classrooms. Once a plan is made to return to in person learning, everybody who wants the vaccine will have access.

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Just now, stlrams said:

Here’s reality.  Urban kids are missing out on education because of the pandemic.  Result is increasing income inequality..,  

Yes, the pandemic response is responsible for income inequality. Nailed it.

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Just now, Apple Jack said:

Right, because they have been doing virtual classrooms. Once a plan is made to return to in person learning, everybody who wants the vaccine will have access.

The CDC guidelines are the plan.  We dont have access yet. 

You dont have to keep guessing, just read it. 

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1 minute ago, Apple Jack said:

Yes, the pandemic response is responsible for income inequality. Nailed it.

Whew. Not solely responsible for, contributing to.  If you've listened to Biden, he agrees. It's one reason they are opening up now, imo, without waiting for the vaccine. 

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1 minute ago, tonydead said:

The CDC guidelines are the plan.  We dont have access yet. 

You dont have to keep guessing, just read it. 

They are guidelines, not law. And it assumes that teachers are essential workers and will have access if they want it before returning to the classroom.  I don’t know of anywhere that teachers doing in person learning are not being offered the vaccine. If that is happening, it should be rectified. But I’m not aware of it.

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1 minute ago, Apple Jack said:

They are guidelines, not law. And it assumes that teachers are essential workers and will have access if they want it before returning to the classroom.  I don’t know of anywhere that teachers doing in person learning are not being offered the vaccine. If that is happening, it should be rectified. But I’m not aware of it.

Link please. 

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1 minute ago, tonydead said:

Link please. 

Is there anywhere in person teachers are not considered essential workers? The point is that the environment is not remotely like it was pre-vaccine and you are acting like it was. Almost like your being disingenuous. Almost.

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1 minute ago, Apple Jack said:

Is there anywhere in person teachers are not considered essential workers? The point is that the environment is not remotely like it was pre-vaccine and you are acting like it was. Almost like your being disingenuous. Almost.

Weird someone so uninformed would accuse people of being disingenuous and not provide any links for their guesses. Let me help you out. 

Quote

 

Evidence suggests that many K-12 schools that have strictly implemented mitigation strategies have been able to safely open for in-person instruction and remain open.1 This document provides an operational strategy to support K-12 schools in opening for in-person instruction and remaining open through an integrated package of mitigation components. These essential elements include:

1. Consistent implementation of layered mitigation strategies to reduce transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in schools

2. Indicators of community transmission to reflect level of community risk

3. Phased mitigation and learning modes based on levels of community transmission

The following public health efforts provide additional layers of COVID-19 prevention in schools:

Testing to identify individuals with SARS-CoV-2 infection to limit transmission and outbreaks

Vaccination for teachers and school staff, and in communities, as soon as supply allows

 

Link

Not required, provides additional measures, when available. 

:popcorn:

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1 hour ago, Alex P Keaton said:

I don't really see how the amount of Pfizer and Moderna purchased is at all relevant to whether or not we rely on the J&J vaccine.   If we can get 50-100m doses of J&J by say, June, that would be huge.    I would gladly sign up for a J&J shot in April or May.

By May the problem should be finding people willing to get vaccinated 

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14 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Would you care to show your math?

There are 230 million adults in the US. Polls have said half to 2/3 of Americans are willing to get vaccinated. That will require somewhere between 230-300 million doses. 

We will have 200 million doses of Pfizer and nearly that of Moderna by May.

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11 hours ago, dawgtrails said:

Seems odd to complain that schools need to open, then when we finally get around to vaccinating the teachers and staff, you then complain that they are changing course because they are pushing for opening.

Who is this directed at?  It seems to me that everybody thinks that schools should be open next fall except for some specific teachers unions.  Maybe this is just me, but there seems to be a very strong bipartisan consensus on this one, and of course that's how it should be.  I understand not having in-person school right now -- my local schools have been open all year, but I don't have any issue with communities that went with remote learning instead.  But this fall, after vaccines are widely available?  Come on.

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4 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Who is this directed at?  It seems to me that everybody thinks that schools should be open next fall except for some specific teachers unions.  Maybe this is just me, but there seems to be a very strong bipartisan consensus on this one, and of course that's how it should be.  I understand not having in-person school right now -- my local schools have been open all year, but I don't have any issue with communities that went with remote learning instead.  But this fall, after vaccines are widely available?  Come on.

I dont.

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14 hours ago, Drunken Cowboy said:

There are 230 million adults in the US. Polls have said half to 2/3 of Americans are willing to get vaccinated. That will require somewhere between 230-300 million doses. 

We will have 200 million doses of Pfizer and nearly that of Moderna by May.

Thx.  There are 250m people over age 19.  270m over age 14.   Let’s call it 260m people eligible to be vaccinated.  Polls are now saying 70% willing to get vaccinated.  That is 190m people, or 380m doses.

And just because we “have the doses” doesn’t mean they are all distributed immediately, etc.  We will need the J&J doses in March/April/May.

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1 hour ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Thx.  There are 250m people over age 19.  270m over age 14.   Let’s call it 260m people eligible to be vaccinated.  Polls are now saying 70% willing to get vaccinated.  That is 190m people, or 380m doses.

And just because we “have the doses” doesn’t mean they are all distributed immediately, etc.  We will need the J&J doses in March/April/May.

I have not seen anything saying 70%. That would be great if true. Even so, that is about the number of expected doses from the RNA vaccines. Delivery will be a challenge, but the infrastructure for this is being put in place.

 

J&J is scheduled to deliver 100 million does by the end of June. If it was here now, I can see it being a big part of the strategy, but as is I expect it only to be part of the strategy for places where it is difficult to deliver the others.

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37 minutes ago, Drunken Cowboy said:

I have not seen anything saying 70%. That would be great if true. Even so, that is about the number of expected doses from the RNA vaccines. Delivery will be a challenge, but the infrastructure for this is being put in place.

 

J&J is scheduled to deliver 100 million does by the end of June. If it was here now, I can see it being a big part of the strategy, but as is I expect it only to be part of the strategy for places where it is difficult to deliver the others.

This says 67%.  The previous article I read (days ago, can’t find link) said 70%, with a spilt of 90% Dems, 50% of Repub’s.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/healthcare/538198-over-30-percent-of-americans-say-they-wont-get-covid-19-vaccine-poll%3famp

J&J will have doses ready in March.  Last I read was 10m in March, 20-ish million in April, ramping up to a cumulative 100m by end of June.  Obviously all of those numbers could change.

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7 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

This says 67%.  The previous article I read (days ago, can’t find link) said 70%, with a spilt of 90% Dems, 50% of Repub’s.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/healthcare/538198-over-30-percent-of-americans-say-they-wont-get-covid-19-vaccine-poll%3famp

J&J will have doses ready in March.  Last I read was 10m in March, 20-ish million in April, ramping up to a cumulative 100m by end of June.  Obviously all of those numbers could change.

I have seen these results, that was why I chose the top end to be 2/3. However, it is important to note that this includes a  big chunk of people who said they probably will get vaccinated. These people are unlikely to sign up as soon as they are eligible. If they are excluded, we are under 50%. 

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23 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Moderna goes in any regular freezer. It shouldnt be lumped in with pfizer. 

For the most part there’s very little storage issues with Moderna. The one issue could be put to the test right now with the storms delaying shipments. The good thing with Moderna is that even if it goes below freezing temperatures, it’s good for 30 days at fridge temperature and could easily be used by then.

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10 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

For the most part there’s very little storage issues with Moderna. The one issue could be put to the test right now with the storms delaying shipments. The good thing with Moderna is that even if it goes below freezing temperatures, it’s good for 30 days at fridge temperature and could easily be used by then.

It's a bigger issue for low and middle income countries, but the biggest issue is the high income countries have bought up all the stock. 

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37 minutes ago, Drunken Cowboy said:

I have seen these results, that was why I chose the top end to be 2/3. However, it is important to note that this includes a  big chunk of people who said they probably will get vaccinated. These people are unlikely to sign up as soon as they are eligible. If they are excluded, we are under 50%. 

The biggest potential barrier is access especially in minority communities. The move to get vaccine into more of the community pharmacies will help a lot with that.

Another factor will be how the case numbers trend in the next few months and how effective the vaccines prove to be against the new variants. If case numbers and other stats continue downward, I could see some complacency once we get opened up to the general public.

But in general, I’d expect vaccinations to be at the higher end of the estimates. Both vaccines are producing minimal side effects and are seemingly effective.

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2 hours ago, Biff84 said:

The biggest potential barrier is access especially in minority communities. The move to get vaccine into more of the community pharmacies will help a lot with that.

Another factor will be how the case numbers trend in the next few months and how effective the vaccines prove to be against the new variants. If case numbers and other stats continue downward, I could see some complacency once we get opened up to the general public.

But in general, I’d expect vaccinations to be at the higher end of the estimates. Both vaccines are producing minimal side effects and are seemingly effective.

I think we can get to above the estimates as well, but it is going to take work to do so.

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MSM says it's ok to have the debate whether lockdowns were effective now.  NBC Nightly compares Florida's superior results to California. 

Reports high school students speak out about missing school. Anxiety and depression results are real now. Pandemic stress. 

You cant make this stuff up. 

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3 minutes ago, tonydead said:

MSM says it's ok to have the debate whether lockdowns were effective now.  NBC Nightly compares Florida's superior results to California. 

FL has 1358 deaths per 1 million. CA has 1202 deaths per 1 million.

I wouldn't all that superior. Now, if you take into account the difference in shut downs and in person schooling, then maybe it is an argument. But it certainly isn't as simple as you made it out to be

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5 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

FL has 1358 deaths per 1 million. CA has 1202 deaths per 1 million.

I wouldn't all that superior. Now, if you take into account the difference in shut downs and in person schooling, then maybe it is an argument. But it certainly isn't as simple as you made it out to be

It's a lot closer than that according to Lester Holt. 13 something to 13 something. They compared other data too. It wasn't me, it was MSM, you havent got the memo yet I see.  

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2 minutes ago, tonydead said:

It's a lot closer than that according to Lester Holt. 13 something to 13 something. They compared other data too. It wasn't me, it was MSM, you havent got the memo yet I see.  

I don't watch television all that much. But I can tell your only hope is to dunk on liberal states so I am unsure there is a productive conversation in here anyway

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1 minute ago, dawgtrails said:

I don't watch television all that much. But I can tell your only hope is to dunk on liberal states so I am unsure there is a productive conversation in here anyway

I call out hypocrisy when I see it. There is a whole thread here of liberals screaming for lockdowns because they were fed it by MSM. Suddenly they change course. You should step back and try to see the whole picture here.  

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Just now, dawgtrails said:

Do you think that some of the reason why people have changed their minds on lockdowns is because 1) we have learned a lot more about this virus, and 2) a vaccine is rolling out throughout the country?

No. 99.99% of the data was pre vaccine.  Some of us have been saying lock downs werent effective, it's not rocket science. 

But let's look at schools. Who has been saying for months that kids should be back in school?  (Hint, rhymes with Bump) Zero chance they let that happen until almost exactly after Bump leaves office. 

Like I said, you cant make this up.  

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17 minutes ago, tonydead said:

I call out hypocrisy when I see it. There is a whole thread here of liberals screaming for lockdowns because they were fed it by MSM. Suddenly they change course. You should step back and try to see the whole picture here.  

This is the becoming the standard reply of this forums Squad.  
 

try to claim the intellectual high ground and then launch an insult on your way out the door

all that was missing was the crying laughing smilie

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34 minutes ago, tonydead said:

It's a lot closer than that according to Lester Holt. 13 something to 13 something. They compared other data too. It wasn't me, it was MSM, you havent got the memo yet I see.  

Perhaps they used age adjusted? 

Edited by parasaurolophus
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11 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
 

The data is right here.  1358 to 1202.

Apologies for my memory.  They quoted number of cases per 100,000: 8,621 California vs. 8,370 Florida.

Number of hospitalizations a month ago per 100,000: 56 California vs. 35 Florida

Number of hospitalizations now: 24 California vs. 22 Florida.

You might say why is the number of deaths out of whack?  Florida has 35% more seniors (over age 65).  Lets just correct those numbers based on that:  California 1,628 vs. Florida 1,358

It's clear to me that Florida has similar or even better numbers, despite California having had the most restrictive lockdowns in the country.  Surprising, was to hear MSM pose the exact idea.  These were their numbers not mine. 

I guess the memo is out now, it's ok to question the lockdowns and getting kids back to school.  I wonder what took so long since there were a bunch of us trying to say this the whole time?

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57 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Biden revises goal upward for back to school numbers. Over 50% back 5 days a week. I think we currently sit around 42% so this is at least now an actual increase. 

To me, all this "goals keep changing!" stuff is small potatoes ... but it looks to me that Jen Psaki (when she said "... one day a week") got caught flat-footed by a question and attempted to wing an answer instead of telling the reporter she's check and get back to them. This kind of stuff doesn't bug me, though -- people screw up, and not every last "i" will ever be dotted in any conceivable plan addressing any conceivable thing.

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