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1 minute ago, The Commish said:

I highly doubt it given what a political football it is.  My four year old's preschool had two cases of it passed between students but they ONLY know that because the two families are friends and are pretty isolationist.  They basically "confessed" it on the facebook page in the interest of full disclosure.  

Schools are not obligated to share any information related to positive tests except to those directly impacted. Some do anyway, but my understanding is many stopped rather quickly because the community created more hassle than it was worth when those communications were sent out. Basically, enough people effectively weaponized the schools transparency. 

Concerning contact tracing, this is going to sound more cold than intended because I don't think it's their fault - but our experience with reporting agencies has been they don't care about that information. The manner in which they're operating is to put out the fire then move onto the next one. They're not devoting resources to cohesively assembling the data - and I don't blame them. Of course the information is documented, but not in any manner in which it could be easily analyzed. Because like you said their objective is to figure out where a case likely stemmed from, not where it actually came from. So they identify those that were in contact with the subject during the incubation period, give quarantine orders, then stamp the case closed and move onto the next one. 

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This is going to be a one off post because I don't want to get trolled or banned but if I were American, the context of Canada would be the biggest damning fact of how things have been handled in the

Australia has had months of little to no community spread and even then it was confined to one state. By and large Australians are running around doing the right thing, sport was and is still hap

I am confident we are going to hit >750K deaths.  I think it might be a million.  I don't post a ton but I'm an ER doc in a big city. This is by far the worse I've seen since the pandemic star

5 hours ago, RnR said:

Our districts have been offering in-person learning 5 days per week since early August. It's not perfect (what is during these times?) but it creates a refreshing sense of normalcy in learning and routine for the children.

Put the protocols in place, give people the option to continue virtually if they deem it necessary, and move forward with life.

One reason of many that we've intentionally kept our kids out of school this year is that the in-school experience this year, while available, is very far from normal. It's overstructured to avoid COVID infection. Masked, plastic barriers everywhere, weird garbage protocols, lunches in the classrooms, little or no outdoor time, etc. Since a little over half the kids are virtual students ... even the in-class students are essentially being taught virtually -- they have the same laptops and the same online assignments, they're just doing them in school instead of at their homes. No sense of normalcy down here even for the kids attending schools in person.

And ... even with all those protocols for in-person schools, there is still a slow trickle of COVID infections that never dips back down to zero in the schools. The trouble with even a handful of cases in a school is that a few dozen people still have to quarantine -- it's not like five kids being absent with flu, it's five kids being absent with COVID plus five teachers quarantining plus 25 more students quarantining on top of that. One lone COVID infection is massively disruptive all on its own, at least the way schools down here are responding to them.

EDIT: Oh yeah -- and we're also dealing with the same dance The Commish describes on the previous page: "School is open ... now we're shut down for two weeks ... now we're open again ... whoops, now we're not".

Edited by Doug B
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4 hours ago, The Commish said:

Last semester, my kids' schools had two incidents combined...the whole semester.  That's part of the reason we sent them back.  Now it's almost an every week occurrence with SOME portion of each school.

Exactly this experience with my kids' schools. Occasional cases and outages before Xmas break ... daily new-case announcements and lots of teacher outages since then. Going by the number and frequency of emails from administration in recent weeks, both schools have to have something like 5-10 active cases at any one time.

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2 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

Can anybody show a single data set where places with full time in person schooling have higher spread because of that? 

I dont mean a data point like see look some kids tested positive!

We have months of places with in person schooling. Does this data exist? 

What you're asking is essentially impossible to determine without intense and near-perfect contact tracing. High-level, top-of-the-mountain data can't conclusively prove that any one factor or another increased spread in a given area.

IMHO, the fact that my kids' schools continue to get impacted (outages, quarantines, closures) over and over again by COVID cases/exposures is all the data I need. Anecdotal-schmanecdotal.

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Cuomo threatens assemblyman.     I think it is time he steps down.

 

(CNN)New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo has been pleading with lawmakers for support and even threatening political retribution against Democrats who have criticized him in an aggressive effort to contain political fallout from revelations that his administration had concealed the full extent of nursing home-related deaths during the Covid pandemic.

New York State Governor Andrew Cuomo, Assemblyman Ron Kim

Describing an alleged exchange with the governor that has not been previously reported, Democratic Assemblyman Ron Kim told CNN that he received a call on his cell phone from the governor last week as he was bathing his children at home.

"Gov. Cuomo called me directly on Thursday to threaten my career if I did not cover up for Melissa [DeRosa] and what she said. He tried to pressure me to issue a statement, and it was a very traumatizing experience," Kim said. Cuomo proceeded to tell the assemblyman that "we're in this business together and we don't cross certain lines and he said I hadn't seen his wrath and that he can destroy me," according to Kim.

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3 hours ago, Summer Wheat said:

Cuomo threatens assemblyman.     I think it is time he steps down.

 

(CNN)New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo has been pleading with lawmakers for support and even threatening political retribution against Democrats who have criticized him in an aggressive effort to contain political fallout from revelations that his administration had concealed the full extent of nursing home-related deaths during the Covid pandemic.

New York State Governor Andrew Cuomo, Assemblyman Ron Kim

Describing an alleged exchange with the governor that has not been previously reported, Democratic Assemblyman Ron Kim told CNN that he received a call on his cell phone from the governor last week as he was bathing his children at home.

"Gov. Cuomo called me directly on Thursday to threaten my career if I did not cover up for Melissa [DeRosa] and what she said. He tried to pressure me to issue a statement, and it was a very traumatizing experience," Kim said. Cuomo proceeded to tell the assemblyman that "we're in this business together and we don't cross certain lines and he said I hadn't seen his wrath and that he can destroy me," according to Kim.

Rumors swirling that Jay Inslee may have sent covid positives back into nursing homes too. 

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9 hours ago, Doug B said:

What you're asking is essentially impossible to determine without intense and near-perfect contact tracing. High-level, top-of-the-mountain data can't conclusively prove that any one factor or another increased spread in a given area.

IMHO, the fact that my kids' schools continue to get impacted (outages, quarantines, closures) over and over again by COVID cases/exposures is all the data I need. Anecdotal-schmanecdotal.

Can you even find inconclusive data? 

 

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8 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

Can you even find inconclusive data? 

 

There are some publications that show that community case rates don't have a strong correlation (sometimes none within statistical significance) on transmission within schools.  Obviously if there is zero community spread, there would be zero in-school spread, but aside from that the data are not conclusive.

Here's some links I dug up:

CDC page on Schools and COVID (has more links to referenced studies): https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/science-and-research/transmission_k_12_schools.html - "Increases in case incidence among school-aged children and school reopenings do not appear to pre-date increases in community transmission... For schools to provide in-person learning, associations between levels of community transmission and risk of transmission in school should be considered. If community transmission is high, students and staff are more likely to come to school while infectious, and COVID-19 can spread more easily in schools." (this point is obvious, but not really backed up by data that I can see) "Some outbreaks have occurred in schools, leading to closures. Significant secondary transmission of SARS-CoV-2 infection can and does occur in school settings when mitigation strategies are not implemented or are not followed... In Michigan and Washington, delivery of in-person instruction was not associated with increased spread of COVID-19 in schools when community transmission was low, but cases in schools did increase at moderate-to-high levels of community transmission."

So it's a very very mixed bag overall.  As I said before as inconclusive as it is now, it was mostly unknown in August.  A lot of the studies linked were published in Q3 and Q4 2020.  These studies have changed my mind about in-person school.  In August, I was very much against it, but I think that the downside to keeping the kids out of school outweighs the risk of additional spread (generally).  The biggest challenge I see is that to keep school-spread low, very strict NPI protocols must be established.  That degrades the learning environment considerably.  If distance learning is 50% as effective as regular school then the, "kids look at a Zoom video of their teacher on laptops while the teacher is in the room," proposal is going to be like 60% as effective as regular school.  But at least the kids will have a modicum of socialization, and many more will not have food scarcity problems.

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2 hours ago, The Z Machine said:

The biggest challenge I see is that to keep school-spread low, very strict NPI protocols must be established.  That degrades the learning environment considerably.  If distance learning is 50% as effective as regular school then the, "kids look at a Zoom video of their teacher on laptops while the teacher is in the room," proposal is going to be like 60% as effective as regular school.  But at least the kids will have a modicum of socialization, and many more will not have food scarcity problems.

The part in blue is a big deal to me, and is why I discount the "new CDC guidance". So, the CDC says "schools can open!"? Big whoop -- there's a ton of fine print that goes with that "guidance" -- most of all, that schools still have to overdo NPIs (Dr. Wallensky admitted this on CNN earlier this week). If schools can't open completely WITHOUT masks, distancing, plastic barriers, etc. ... that doesn't count to me as being open. Open like it's 2019, or it doesn't count.

...

The part in red is one of the reasons my son will continue to be a virtual student even though he struggles mightily with online instruction: his school does not offer socialization for in-school students. If my son attended his school in person, he'd have to sit in his desk for ninety-minute stretches before being alowed a one-minute standing-up break in which the kids are to stay within one foot of their desks. There is no going to lunch and sitting with friends in the cafeteria -- they eat lunch at their classroom desks, the same ones they're essentially bolted to for seven hours per day. There is no real congregation for the in-school students, at least at my son's school. This was all laid out for us by the school's staff in August during some parent-orientation Zoom calls.

ISTM that when people call for "opening schools!", they're imagining an immediate return to pre-COVID school conditions all over the nation. That you just "open up", drop NPIs, and everything else falls into place, and no one catches sick (or if they do, they get over it easily and don't spread it to anyone else).

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I disagree with the CDC then and I disagree with them now. I think the studies are pretty flawed because I don't see any controls where they just ignore the situation when someone in the school tests positive. Basically, all I have seen is:

1) Low community spread = low school spread (commonsense since most communities can't follow guidelines)

2) High community spread = higher school spread (again commonsense)

3) Not much correlation to open schools vs. remote learning causing more spread.

#3 is the one everyone is hanging their hat on it seems. But, where I am, if someone tests positive at school, everyone who came in contact with that person is quarantined and has to go back to remote learning - which isn't the same thing as opening up schools. If you are going to quarantine/cancel class every time someone tests positive you are effectively *not* seeing what happens if you open up schools. My kid's school's PE teacher tested positive a week after "reopening" and 100+ students/faculty were told to stay home. If students/faculty are routinely in and out of quarantine it isn't really a true representation of reopening.

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51 minutes ago, Sand said:

Well, now we know what California teachers think of the kids and parents.  No wonder they are content staying shut down and collecting salary.  They might actually otherwise have to interact with kids and allow parents to go back to work.  Or in their words - "babysit so the parent can smoke MJ" (paraphrasing).

Jesus. thats bad. That woman's response to public criticism "B-word if you are gonna call me out I am gonna f-word you up"

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10 minutes ago, rcam said:

I disagree with the CDC then and I disagree with them now. I think the studies are pretty flawed because I don't see any controls where they just ignore the situation when someone in the school tests positive. Basically, all I have seen is:

1) Low community spread = low school spread (commonsense since most communities can't follow guidelines)

2) High community spread = higher school spread (again commonsense)

3) Not much correlation to open schools vs. remote learning causing more spread.

#3 is the one everyone is hanging their hat on it seems. But, where I am, if someone tests positive at school, everyone who came in contact with that person is quarantined and has to go back to remote learning - which isn't the same thing as opening up schools. If you are going to quarantine/cancel class every time someone tests positive you are effectively *not* seeing what happens if you open up schools. My kid's school's PE teacher tested positive a week after "reopening" and 100+ students/faculty were told to stay home. If students/faculty are routinely in and out of quarantine it isn't really a true representation of reopening.

At some point in time absence of data becomes data.

The default position shouldn't be prove that it is a-ok for everybody to be back in school. It should be schools are a necessary public function and if you cant even provide bad data that shows schools being open is bad for the health of the community, the sthu and get back to work.

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7 hours ago, Sand said:

Well, now we know what California teachers think of the kids and parents.  No wonder they are content staying shut down and collecting salary.  They might actually otherwise have to interact with kids and allow parents to go back to work.  Or in their words - "babysit so the parent can smoke MJ" (paraphrasing).

:shrug:

I want my kids to get back to school so I can get high and watch movies on my day off again.  

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7 hours ago, Sand said:

Well, now we know what California teachers think of the kids and parents.  No wonder they are content staying shut down and collecting salary.  They might actually otherwise have to interact with kids and allow parents to go back to work.  Or in their words - "babysit so the parent can smoke MJ" (paraphrasing).

That's a school board. Those aren't teachers. Teachers and boards are frustrated because the opening/closing of schools has been such a cluster out here. My brother is a school teacher in San Diego, and the stuff they've had to put up with at the local, county, and then state level is incredible. There's a tug-of-war between the states and the counties, and the teachers are caught up in it, as are the school boards.

But again, your link is to a school board, which is not comprised of teachers and totally different from them. School boards are elected officials, a position often used as a jumping off point for political careers in other areas.

Edited by rockaction
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12 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

:shrug:

I want my kids to get back to school so I can get high and watch movies on my day off again.  

There are some advantages to living in those states.  My kid is back at school 5 days a week (thank goodness!).  That just happened after a long time with a hybrid schedule.

But, for the second part, I'd be arrested.  And, even if it was legal here, I'd be randomly tested and fired from my job.  Double whammy.  Of course, my wife won't even let me buy pot stocks much less partake.  So triple whammy.  :sadbanana:

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7 hours ago, Sand said:

There are some advantages to living in those states.  My kid is back at school 5 days a week (thank goodness!).  That just happened after a long time with a hybrid schedule.

But, for the second part, I'd be arrested.  And, even if it was legal here, I'd be randomly tested and fired from my job.  Double whammy.  Of course, my wife won't even let me buy pot stocks much less partake.  So triple whammy:sadbanana:

At what point do you stop pressing your luck? (I hope you see what I did there)

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Just now, rockaction said:

Argh. Paywall.

Bummer. WSJ (the old private browsing trick may work on them not sure).

Essentially they have vaccinated enough of their population to feel comfortable to open many public spaces. They are requiring a passport at many public spots proving vaccination (of course this would never fly here).

They are also providing people incentives to get vaccinated. Free drinks in one area :lol:. Mobile vans vaccinating people. We should also be copying this. 

They will be providing extensive data showing how effective the vaccine performs versus percentage of population vaccinated, how well their process works, allow others to learn from this, etc.

 

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7 minutes ago, The General said:

Bummer. WSJ (the old private browsing trick may work on them not sure).

Essentially they have vaccinated enough of their population to feel comfortable to open many public spaces. They are requiring a passport at many public spots proving vaccination (of course this would never fly here).

They are also providing people incentives to get vaccinated. Free drinks in one area :lol:. Mobile vans vaccinating people. We should also be copying this. 

They will be providing extensive data showing how effective the vaccine performs versus percentage of population vaccinated, how well their process works, allow others to learn from this, etc.

 

Maybe we need to make the next stimulus payment paid out upon vaccination 

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12 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

How are the Palestinian doing?

That was touched on in the article as well: 

“While Israel raced ahead, it also faced pressure to supply vaccines to the Palestinians for humanitarian reasons. Israeli officials have acknowledged that failing to reach immunity in the West Bank and Gaza could hamper Israel’s efforts.

So far it has donated 5,000 vaccines to the Palestinian Authority and delivered 2,000, and officials have said they would look into supplying more once Israel’s population is fully vaccinated. Last week, it allowed 1,000 doses of the Sputnik vaccine from Russia to be sent to Gaza, part of 10,000 doses Russia provided for the Palestinians. The Palestinian Authority also has agreements under the World Health Organization’s Covax program to receive vaccines for 60% of its population.”

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Look, I get it.  Governments need to take care of their people first.  That's their job.  But the Palestinian situation is partially due to the Israelis.  They should be doing more to get vaccines to the health care workers and elderly in Palestine.

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1 minute ago, The Z Machine said:

Dang! 2,000 doses... amazing.  That could vaccinate a small village.  Too bad there are nearly 5 million people living there. 

Yeah. That seems like that could be better. Separate issue that I don't really care to discuss in this thread or know much about frankly..

Incentivizing, a vaccination passport, and collecting data is what they are doing right.

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3 minutes ago, The General said:

Yeah. That seems like that could be better. Separate issue that I don't really care to discuss in this thread or know much about frankly..

Incentivizing, a vaccination passport, and collecting data is what they are doing right.

Agreed.  I have no issue with that.  It will be an interesting experiment and Isreal is leading the way.  I have some Israeli colleagues that I may ask how things are going.  I don't talk Palestine with them.  Nothing good would come of such a discussion. 

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Our World in Data has great visualizations of the COVID-19 pandemic by country, including maps of the vaccination rates.  Some places with low vaccination rates that might be off-limits for while, even for travelers with vaccinations, including most of Africa and Machu Pichu in Peru. I read that neighboring Chile has been successful because they negotiated early and often with makers of 5 different vaccines. Their success in delivering the vaccine (just behind the USA) has also been attributed to a "robust primary healthcare system" which is modeled after the UK.  Among larger countries, Israel has the highest rate thus far. Isn't the issue with places like Gaza that a more virulent virus could emerge if the virus rages?

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On 2/18/2021 at 11:23 PM, parasaurolophus said:
On 2/18/2021 at 2:05 PM, Doug B said:

What you're asking is essentially impossible to determine without intense and near-perfect contact tracing. High-level, top-of-the-mountain data can't conclusively prove that any one factor or another increased spread in a given area.

IMHO, the fact that my kids' schools continue to get impacted (outages, quarantines, closures) over and over again by COVID cases/exposures is all the data I need. Anecdotal-schmanecdotal.

Can you even find inconclusive data? 

It turns out that they've taken a stab at this in Georgia:

Quote

 

CDC study: Teachers key to COVID-19 infections in 1 district (ABC News, 2/22/2021)

A new study finds that teachers may be more important drivers of COVID-19 transmission in schools than students

The paper released Monday by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention studies nine COVID-19 transmission clusters in elementary schools in the Atlanta suburb of Marietta in December and January, That included one cluster where 16 teachers, students and relatives of students at home were infected.

In only one of the nine clusters was a student clearly the first documented case, while a teacher was the first documented case in four clusters. In another four, the first case was unclear. Of the nine clusters, eight involved probable teacher-to-student transmission. Two clusters saw teachers infect each other during in-person meetings or lunches, with a teacher then infecting other students.

“Educators played an important role in the spread," CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky told reporters in an online briefing Monday. "COVID-19 spread often occurred during in-person meetings or lunches and then subsequently spread to classrooms.

The findings line up with studies from the United Kingdom that found teacher-to-teacher was the most common type of school transmission there, and a German study that found in-school transmission rates were three times higher when the first documented case was a teacher. In some American districts, schools have had to go all-virtual because so many teachers have been exposed to the virus.

 

 

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2 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

Gotta love the Biden admin throwing their CDC director under the bus after getting blowback from teachers unions. 

Details? Been looking through Google news, hadn't found this yet.

EDIT: You talking about this? (ABC News, 2/21/2021)

Quote

 

Vaccinating the nation's students and getting them safely back into a classroom has also come to be a challenge for the Biden administration. The president originally promised to reopen all schools within his first 100 days, but then shifted that goal to just kindergarten through 8th graders.

Two-thirds of the country is still categorized under the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's "red zone," which means those school districts are encouraged to continue hybrid/virtual learning unless every mitigation effort is followed.

But Psaki said the president remains unwavering in his commitment to meet his mark and see them return to class.

"That's our goal. That's our objective. That's our plan," she said.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, ekbeats said:

Dr. Fauci says we may be wearing masks in 2022??  Wtf? My age group (45-55) will commence vaccinations in only 30 days.  Some respected virologists are predicting herd immunity by April.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/02/21/covid-fauci-masks-2022/

Wait - your age group (also mine) is starting vaccinations in 30 days???  Where did you hear that?  That is big news to me.

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59 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Wait - your age group (also mine) is starting vaccinations in 30 days???  Where did you hear that?  That is big news to me.

Probably state-dependent ... but 55 and older are now eligible in Louisiana with a slew of common conditions. Basically, if you’re 55 plus and not a triathlete or distance runner, you qualify.

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2 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

No. She said that vaccination wasnt a requirement to return to school. Teachers no likey. The admin then said she was only speaking in a personal capacity and didnt speak for cdc. 

 

I was told all teachers were vaccinated already!!!1!!1

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WTF is taking so long?  Essential workers not even started with the vaccine in my state yet.  They still tracking down grandma?  

This administration is a joke. Of course we will be wearing masks in 2022 and beyond. Bank on it. 

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20 minutes ago, tonydead said:

WTF is taking so long?  Essential workers not even started with the vaccine in my state yet.  They still tracking down grandma?  

This administration is a joke. Of course we will be wearing masks in 2022 and beyond. Bank on it. 

I have to agree that Washington has been a disaster.  We opened into a new phase six or more weeks ago, and I fought like hell to get appointments for my mom and stepfather, who will get their second doses this week.  I still am reading horror stories of how many people currently eligible (65+) can't find any openings.  We've just been stuck in this phase and not moved and don't seem like we will any time soon, and we have sooooo many more phases before we get to "regular" people (not elderly and no comorbidities).  I don't see any hope for a vaccine for myself on the horizon for many months.  I'd be OK with the waiting, but the chaos surrounding our system has been inexcusable.

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12 minutes ago, krista4 said:

I have to agree that Washington has been a disaster.  We opened into a new phase six or more weeks ago, and I fought like hell to get appointments for my mom and stepfather, who will get their second doses this week.  I still am reading horror stories of how many people currently eligible (65+) can't find any openings.  We've just been stuck in this phase and not moved and don't seem like we will any time soon, and we have sooooo many more phases before we get to "regular" people (not elderly and no comorbidities).  I don't see any hope for a vaccine for myself on the horizon for many months.  I'd be OK with the waiting, but the chaos surrounding our system has been inexcusable.

1.  I'm not sure why others are attributing this to Fauci

2.  What you described is the situation in Democrat-heavy states because 90% of Dems want a vaccine (compared to only 50% of Republicans); yet we are giving all states a relatively similarly vaccine assortment as a % of total population

3.  At some point the feds have to step in and start allocating vaccines differently.   Any "chaos" is because we are leaving the logistics up to each individual state.

4.  "Horror stories" is a bit of an extreme description.  My parents are over 65 (barely shy of 75) and it took a lot of time to find an appointment (they won't receive a first shot for 2-3 weeks yet).  But there was no "horror" involved.  It was just annoying for them and overly complicated.  My FIL is pretty much incompetent and still managed to get an appointment a few weeks ago.   Despite the absurdity of the system, your mom and stepfather both have two doses already.  (which I truly am happy to hear!)  

I'm not writing any of this to minimize the disappointment of our current situation.  But I'm also not sure what people expected.  We've only distributed about 75-80m doses so far....enough to vaccinate < 40m people.   It seems more like we've got poor expectation-management and unclear logistics.  Again, because the feds haven't taken charge and created a single, coordinated distribution plan.   Biden inherited a train wreck.  His administration needs to step up and stop using that as an excuse going forward.

You will likely get your first dose in late April/early May.   It's just math at this point.  Deep breaths.  Maybe move to a red state - you could probably get a vaccine in a week or two. ;)

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25 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

1.  I'm not sure why others are attributing this to Fauci

2.  What you described is the situation in Democrat-heavy states because 90% of Dems want a vaccine (compared to only 50% of Republicans); yet we are giving all states a relatively similarly vaccine assortment as a % of total population

3.  At some point the feds have to step in and start allocating vaccines differently.   Any "chaos" is because we are leaving the logistics up to each individual state.

4.  "Horror stories" is a bit of an extreme description.  My parents are over 65 (barely shy of 75) and it took a lot of time to find an appointment (they won't receive a first shot for 2-3 weeks yet).  But there was no "horror" involved.  It was just annoying for them and overly complicated.  My FIL is pretty much incompetent and still managed to get an appointment a few weeks ago.   Despite the absurdity of the system, your mom and stepfather both have two doses already.  (which I truly am happy to hear!)  

I'm not writing any of this to minimize the disappointment of our current situation.  But I'm also not sure what people expected.  We've only distributed about 75-80m doses so far....enough to vaccinate < 40m people.   It seems more like we've got poor expectation-management and unclear logistics.  Again, because the feds haven't taken charge and created a single, coordinated distribution plan.   Biden inherited a train wreck.  His administration needs to step up and stop using that as an excuse going forward.

You will likely get your first dose in late April/early May.   It's just math at this point.  Deep breaths.  Maybe move to a red state - you could probably get a vaccine in a week or two. ;)

What are you talking about, my friend?

1.  I said nothing about Fauci and have no idea what you're talking about.

2-3.  Could definitely be true.  In fact, the chaos is likely leaving it to individual states, which is why I'm speaking to my individual experience in my state.

4.  How the hell would you possibly know about what's going on in Washington?  You can put "horror stories" in quotes as much as you wish, which doesn't change the experience of the people here.  I signed up for a Facebook group this weekend that just tracks people looking for vaccines and people who are scouring the possibilities to find what's available.  Since I was "good at" finding vaccines I thought maybe I could help others.  "Horror stories" are exactly what I've been reading.  People in their 80s who are internet savvy and still unable to find a vaccine more than six weeks later.  What your parents experienced in WI(?) is completely inapplicable and irrelevant to my post about Washington.  Good for them that they were incompetent yet successful.  That's not the experience here.  And by the way, you are contradicting your own crap above and below since you already indicated it's state-specific.

Seriously, WTF?  I invite you to join this FB group and try to find vaccines for people, since it's so easy.  Let me know if you want the link.

Edited by krista4
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21 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

You will likely get your first dose in late April/early May.   It's just math at this point.  Deep breaths.  Maybe move to a red state - you could probably get a vaccine in a week or two. ;)

Oh, and I'll be happy to bet you on this point.  If I lose, I win.  And no one needs deep breaths, since I made it very clear that I wasn't worried about my own vaccine.  

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51 minutes ago, krista4 said:

I have to agree that Washington has been a disaster.  We opened into a new phase six or more weeks ago, and I fought like hell to get appointments for my mom and stepfather, who will get their second doses this week.  I still am reading horror stories of how many people currently eligible (65+) can't find any openings.  We've just been stuck in this phase and not moved and don't seem like we will any time soon, and we have sooooo many more phases before we get to "regular" people (not elderly and no comorbidities).  I don't see any hope for a vaccine for myself on the horizon for many months.  I'd be OK with the waiting, but the chaos surrounding our system has been inexcusable.

The problem is still vaccine supply. The current schedule for new doses will have enough for everyone who wants one pretty soon.

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