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On 2/26/2021 at 10:30 AM, John123 said:

I keep seeing this posted here, but other than the "he said it wasn't a big deal early on", I haven't seen a lot of specifics.  But do you really think ANYONE could have done EVERYTHING perfectly?  Biden was calling Trump a xenophobe when Trump restricted international travel early on.  Pretty much all the Dems were downplaying this thing while Trump had already formed a task force and was working on a vaccine. And no one on this forum gave him credit for beating his timeline for a vaccine.  The only thing they mention re: the timeline is that he didn't meet an optimistic goal for how many people would be vaccinated by the end of the year. 

It's crazy how every little negative thing is amplified by the lefties here, and the positives not even discussed.  And all the critics act like he should have just nailed this thing perfectly and if Biden had been President we'd be so much better off right now. 

LIBERATE MICHIGAN!!!!!

 

Come on.  Even the most ardent Trump supporter can't deny that his political motivations often supersceded what was right.

Trump had every chance to mitigate political rhetoric for safety...and he chose not to.  In doing that, he emboldened supporters to embrace 'FREEEEEDOOOOOMMMMMM!" over health.  In the end, it cost him the election.  

If he had taken a tact of " this might cost me re-election......but I don't care.  We're going to beat this thing".  He'd have won with 300+ EVs.  

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This is going to be a one off post because I don't want to get trolled or banned but if I were American, the context of Canada would be the biggest damning fact of how things have been handled in the

Australia has had months of little to no community spread and even then it was confined to one state. By and large Australians are running around doing the right thing, sport was and is still hap

I am confident we are going to hit >750K deaths.  I think it might be a million.  I don't post a ton but I'm an ER doc in a big city. This is by far the worse I've seen since the pandemic star

7 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

LIBERATE MICHIGAN!!!!!

 

Come on.  Even the most ardent Trump supporter can't deny that his political motivations often supersceded what was right.

Trump had every chance to mitigate political rhetoric for safety...and he chose not to.  In doing that, he emboldened supporters to embrace 'FREEEEEDOOOOOMMMMMM!" over health.  In the end, it cost him the election.  

If he had taken a tact of " this might cost me re-election......but I don't care.  We're going to beat this thing".  He'd have won with 300+ EVs.  

So, again, no specifics. 

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18 hours ago, Thunderlips said:

LIBERATE MICHIGAN!!!!!

 

Come on.  Even the most ardent Trump supporter can't deny that his political motivations often supersceded what was right.

Trump had every chance to mitigate political rhetoric for safety...and he chose not to.  In doing that, he emboldened supporters to embrace 'FREEEEEDOOOOOMMMMMM!" over health.  In the end, it cost him the election.  

If he had taken a tact of " this might cost me re-election......but I don't care.  We're going to beat this thing".  He'd have won with 300+ EVs.  

In what world does a politician not let his political motivations supersede whats "right"

If there is one thing that annoys me about the left is that they somehow think their party always does the right thing and that politics are secondary.   Right. 

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56 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

In what world does a politician not let his political motivations supersede what's "right"

This is a gigantic disconnect. Cynicism when evaluating the actions of politicians is frequently warranted, but not 100% of the time. Probably not even 90% of the time. But all too frequently, yes.

I disagree that all politicians' actions are all political calculations all the time. From both sides of the aisle ... some will do the right thing some of the time. Maybe not often enough, but enough to drop the summary auto-cynicism IMHO. Sometimes, doing the right thing even dovetails neatly into overt political motives.

I know, I know ... what's "the right thing" and "who's to say?"

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1 minute ago, Doug B said:

This is a gigantic disconnect. Cynicism when evaluating the actions of politicians is frequently warranted, but not 100% of the time. Probably not even 90% of the time. But all too frequently, yes.

I disagree that all politicians' actions are all political calculations all the time. From both sides of the aisle ... some will do the right thing some of the time. Maybe not often enough, but enough to drop the summary auto-cynicism IMHO. Sometimes, doing the right thing even dovetails neatly into overt political motives.

I know, I know ... what's "the right thing" and "who's to say?"

My point was more..this is a BOF SIDEZ argument.  Everyone does it.  Its is disingenuous to say or even think that somehow only republicans pooh pooh whats right in favor of politics.  

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On 2/28/2021 at 8:25 AM, parasaurolophus said:

I still don't see why you would need contact tracing. Determining if each individual transmission happened at school isn't all that important for determining rates in an area.

I think I can finally put my finger on my disconnect with your take about kids being in school.

You seem to feel like rate of spread in a community should matter in an individual family's decision-making about their own kids. But I don't care about the community spread rate when evaluating whether or not my children should attend school in person. What I care about is whether or not they could (a) catch COVID themselves* and (b) be an unwitting link in the chain of transmission to the vulnerable adults in their lives.

Given that, our kids will not be in schools for the duration even though in-person schools have been available locally since August. Parents are given the choice here whether their children go virtually or in-person, and parents retain that choice until at least the end of the school year. And like Ivan pointed out ... yep, the trade-offs are recognized -- we feel they're worth it.

If other parents send their kids to in-person school, as about half of local families have chosen to do? That's fine for them -- they apparently weighed the trade-offs in their lives differently. At the same time, we'd be quite worried if mandatory in-person school attendance went into force again tomorrow -- regardless of the prevailing community transmission rates**.

can't speak or decide for others, obviously ... but for us, even a 1-in-100,000 risk of serious illness in our kids is well worth the downsides of attending school virtually.

** until they drop down to background-radiation levels.

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8 minutes ago, Doug B said:

I think I can finally put my finger on my disconnect with your take about kids being in school.

You seem to feel like rate of spread in a community should matter in an individual family's decision-making about their own kids. But I don't care about the community spread rate when evaluating whether or not my children should attend school in person. What I care about is whether or not they could (a) catch COVID themselves* and (b) be an unwitting link in the chain of transmission to the vulnerable adults in their lives.

Given that, our kids will not be in schools for the duration even though in-person schools have been available locally since August. Parents are given the choice here whether their children go virtually or in-person, and parents retain that choice until at least the end of the school year. And like Ivan pointed out ... yep, the trade-offs are recognized -- we feel they're worth it.

If other parents send their kids to in-person school, as about half of local families have chosen to do? That's fine for them -- they apparently weighed the trade-offs in their lives differently. At the same time, we'd be quite worried if mandatory in-person school attendance went into force again tomorrow -- regardless of the prevailing community transmission rates**.

can't speak or decide for others, obviously ... but for us, even a 1-in-100,000 risk of serious illness in our kids is well worth the downsides of attending school virtually.

** until they drop down to background-radiation levels.

I have zero issues with parents making this choice. My issue is with communities that dont offer a choice to be in person. It isnt exactly hard to put a camera in the back of the classroom and have the class being filmed. 

Eta: technically should say zero issues right now. Once rates have subsided enough there will be a point I would shift to say that this choice is just illogical paranoia. 

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4 hours ago, supermike80 said:

My point was more..this is a BOF SIDEZ argument.  Everyone does it.  Its is disingenuous to say or even think that somehow only republicans pooh pooh whats right in favor of politics.  

Sure but it seems like were talking about a very specific and significant thing. Trump botched the ever loving crap out of the COVID response and no matter what political games Democrats or other Republicans play, that’s just a fact and it’s his a huge part of legacy. Also there wasn’t really anything inherently political about COVID. Trump played a huge role in making it political.

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2 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Sure but it seems like were talking about a very specific and significant thing. Trump botched the ever loving crap out of the COVID response and no matter what political games Democrats or other Republicans play, that’s just a fact and it’s his a huge part of legacy. Also there wasn’t really anything inherently political about COVID. Trump played a huge role in making it political.

Yeah well as I have said a few times.  

I will not blame a politician for his or her bungling of the Covid response.  Not blaming Trump, not blaming Cuomo.  What any of that has to do with the earlier conversation I don't honestly know.  But Ok.  I

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Was watching Bloomberg last night.  They did an interview with an Israeli official about them issuing "green" passports, which mean you've been vaccinated.    They intend to loosen travel restrictions only for people with green passports, including international travel, and they intend for it to be reciprocal, meaning they will accept travelers from countries that are instituting a similar system.   They are currently working with several European countries on processes.   

We're going to get to the point where vaccination will be necessary to travel internationally, and we may get to the point where either a negative test or vaccination is necessary to travel domestically.    

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3 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Yeah well as I have said a few times.  

I will not blame a politician for his or her bungling of the Covid response.  Not blaming Trump, not blaming Cuomo.  What any of that has to do with the earlier conversation I don't honestly know.  But Ok.  I

Trump's biggest failure was taking no significant action for 70 days after learning the severity of the virus.  I don't really criticize the response itself once he took action, since it seems like the recommendations were inconsistent and fluid.   

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1 minute ago, the rover said:

Trump's biggest failure was taking no significant action for 70 days after learning the severity of the virus.  I don't really criticize the response itself once he took action, since it seems like the recommendations were inconsistent and fluid.   

Well thats great.  I think we have beaten this to death now.  However if you feel like rehashing it, cool.  I don;t agree with anything you said....because at the time no one knew anything..ESPEICALLY in the first 70 days, but yeah...hindsight etc etc.  All hogwash.

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I mean we are still botching COVID. It shouldn’t be that difficult to use Medicare to contact people over the age of 65 and schedule vaccines. Many of these people have limited tech skills and are struggling. Especially in poor neighborhoods. I don’t understand why someone would just give a giant pass to any political leader. We saw other countries that handled it better and are still handling it better. 

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1 hour ago, supermike80 said:

Well thats great.  I think we have beaten this to death now.  However if you feel like rehashing it, cool.  I don;t agree with anything you said....because at the time no one knew anything..ESPEICALLY in the first 70 days, but yeah...hindsight etc etc.  All hogwash.

This take seems rational and fact-based.  Let's look at actual facts instead:

The Trump administration received its first formal notification of the outbreak of the coronavirus in China on Jan. 3.

WHO made a public announcement regarding the coronavirus on Jan. 9.

The first case in the US was reported on Jan. 21

Wuhan went under quarantine on Jan. 23

WHO issued global health emergency on Jan. 31.

CDC first distributed a test kit on February 6.   The CDC has now admitted that it had warnings that the test was flawed and gave inaccurate results.  The CDC also points to a lack of guidance for the delay in developing a test.

CDC announces COVID-19 headed toward pandemic status on February 25 (2 of 3 factors met--3rd factor is worldwide spread, which was inevitable).

The Trump administration continued to rely on the knowingly inaccurate test results through the end of February.

Quote

 

A review of federal purchasing contracts by The Associated Press shows federal agencies largely waited until mid-March to begin placing bulk orders of N95 respirator masks, mechanical ventilators and other equipment needed by front-line health care workers.

By that time, hospitals in several states were treating thousands of infected patients without adequate equipment and were pleading for shipments from the Strategic National Stockpile. That federal cache of supplies was created more than 20 years ago to help bridge gaps in the medical and pharmaceutical supply chains during a national emergency.

 

Trump administration declares national emergency on March 13.   70 days from being briefed by multiple intelligence services on the virus.

70 days in which the administration's only real affirmative action was to join other countries on Feb. 2 in restricting air travel from China--but the restriction was only to avoid a 2 week quarantine.   Air travel from China was not shut down.   Those allowed to arrive were not subject to quarantine.

Compare to this:

On January 6, Moderna CEO Stéphane Bancel emailed Barney Graham, a vaccine researcher at the National Institutes of Health. Bancel was troubled by the mysterious virus outbreak in Wuhan. He then talked with Graham about developing a vaccine.

On January 11, researchers from China published the genetic sequence of the coronavirus. Two days later, Moderna's team and NIH scientists had finalized the targeted genetic sequence they would use in the vaccine.

By February 24, Moderna had shipped its first vaccine batches to NIH scientists in Bethesda, Maryland. Researchers administered the first dose on March 16 in Seattle, Washington. That launched the first clinical trial of any coronavirus vaccine.

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2 minutes ago, the rover said:

Trump administration declares public health emergency on March 13.   70 days from being briefed by multiple intelligence services on the virus.

70 days in which the administration's only real affirmative action was to join other countries on Feb. 2 in restricting air travel from China--but the restriction was only to avoid a 2 week quarantine.   Air travel from China was not shut down.   Those allowed to arrive were not subject to quarantine.

 

This is blatantly false and easily debunked.  Even the left leaning Wikipedia can be used a source for doing so:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Coronavirus_Task_Force

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2 minutes ago, the rover said:

Nothing on that page "debunks" any of the factual information I stated.   Because, you know, facts.

I did edit the post to correct that a national emergency was declared on March 13, not a public health emergency.

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

I mean we are still botching COVID. It shouldn’t be that difficult to use Medicare to contact people over the age of 65 and schedule vaccines. Many of these people have limited tech skills and are struggling. Especially in poor neighborhoods. I don’t understand why someone would just give a giant pass to any political leader. We saw other countries that handled it better and are still handling it better. 

I don't think anybody outside of Israel is handling vaccine distribution very well.

I think only England and Israel are doing better than us. 

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3 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

I don't think anybody outside of Israel is handling vaccine distribution very well.

I think only England and Israel are doing better than us. 

Chaotic across the board it seems which is disappointing given we had all year to know this was coming and prep for a better rollout to target the at risk people, have some kind of more clear order and messaging for people. 

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5 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Chaotic across the board it seems which is disappointing given we had all year to know this was coming and prep for a better rollout to target the at risk people, have some kind of more clear order and messaging for people. 

CVS has been supplied vaccine in our state to target rural and minority areas for distribution.  What's often happening is people from the larger cities are finding appointments at these rural pharmacies often 2+ hours away when appointments aren't used by the local population.  I had a friend drive 2 hours and 45 minutes each way today to get round one.  The guy is in his 30's and they rolled him right in and out of there no problem, because they had nobody else to fill the appointment.  You can schedule them online at CVS' website.  While we may as a whole have a decent vaccination rate as a country, I think we are going to have some areas where we really struggle getting the population to buy in to the need to get vaccinated.  Right now where I live, we are supply constrained.  But I think there are going to be demand issues, especially in rural and minority areas.

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24 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

I don't think anybody outside of Israel is handling vaccine distribution very well.

I think only England and Israel are doing better than us. 

I can't claim any sort of expertise on supply chains, but I imagine it has to be really hard to distribute a vaccine -- or anything really -- that has to be kept at super-cold temperatures.  There are probably lots of case studies waiting to be written on this topic.  Off the top of my head, Israel is a tiny little country about the size of New Jersey.  Granted, Israel is constantly rocked by war and ethnic strife, but New Jersey has the Jets so even that's sort of a wash. Israel is probably playing the vaccination game on easy mode compared to a country like the US.  It's can't possibly be easy to transport vaccines across this country to and from places that need specialized equipment just to store the vaccine.

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20 minutes ago, Shula-holic said:

CVS has been supplied vaccine in our state to target rural and minority areas for distribution.  What's often happening is people from the larger cities are finding appointments at these rural pharmacies often 2+ hours away when appointments aren't used by the local population.  I had a friend drive 2 hours and 45 minutes each way today to get round one.  The guy is in his 30's and they rolled him right in and out of there no problem, because they had nobody else to fill the appointment.  You can schedule them online at CVS' website.  While we may as a whole have a decent vaccination rate as a country, I think we are going to have some areas where we really struggle getting the population to buy in to the need to get vaccinated.  Right now where I live, we are supply constrained.  But I think there are going to be demand issues, especially in rural and minority areas.

Yep the marketing of it and messaging of it needs to be way freaking better. Why aren’t there commercials on TV? 

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1 hour ago, the rover said:

I did edit the post to correct that a national emergency was declared on March 13, not a public health emergency.

On March 9th Dr. Fauci said if you're healthy you should be fine going on a cruise.  

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43 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Yep the marketing of it and messaging of it needs to be way freaking better. Why aren’t there commercials on TV? 

I suspect they are being cautious about driving demand before supply. This makes sense to a point, but we might be past that point already. 

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2 minutes ago, Drunken Cowboy said:

I suspect they are being cautious about driving demand before supply. This makes sense to a point, but we might be past that point already. 

I get that but convincing people it’s safe and that they should want it is really important. Even if right now people can only getting on a waitlist, at least you’ve got the first big step: their contact info and an agreement. Also simple data could probably help target which areas are most in need of convincing. 

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1 hour ago, supermike80 said:

On March 9th Dr. Fauci said if you're healthy you should be fine going on a cruise.  

The human head weighs eight pounds.

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1 hour ago, supermike80 said:

On March 9th Dr. Fauci said if you're healthy you should be fine going on a cruise.  

The day before he said there is no reason to be walking around with a mask on.  A full month later the CDC decides maaaaybe it's a good idea to start wearing masks, in April. Totally Trumps fault for not ordering masks in February. 

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2 minutes ago, tonydead said:

The day before he said there is no reason to be walking around with a mask on.  A full month later the CDC decides maaaaybe it's a good idea to start wearing masks, in April. Totally Trumps fault for not ordering masks in February. 

I agree that the Trump administration should not be faulted for these types of issues, but whether the public was supposed to wear masks is completely irrelevant.   The government still isn't providing private individuals with masks.   They clearly knew that health care workers needed them, though.   

I am more concerned with the delay in any substantive response, emergency funding, purchase of PPE's for health care workers, securing ventilators, an actual meaningful shutdown of international travel, the lack of a coherent federal response, etc.   Those all get laid at the feet of the Trump administration.  They wasted a full 2 months after being made aware of the severity of the virus.   That's all on them.   

The first 70 days was critical to the ultimate path this was going to take, including the way states would handle lockdowns.   

What the CDC of WHO was advising the public to do is a completely different issue.

"I take no responsibility" isn't an acceptable answer.

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48 minutes ago, the rover said:

I agree that the Trump administration should not be faulted for these types of issues, but whether the public was supposed to wear masks is completely irrelevant.   The government still isn't providing private individuals with masks.   They clearly knew that health care workers needed them, though.   

I am more concerned with the delay in any substantive response, emergency funding, purchase of PPE's for health care workers, securing ventilators, an actual meaningful shutdown of international travel, the lack of a coherent federal response, etc.   Those all get laid at the feet of the Trump administration.  They wasted a full 2 months after being made aware of the severity of the virus.   That's all on them.   

The first 70 days was critical to the ultimate path this was going to take, including the way states would handle lockdowns.   

What the CDC of WHO was advising the public to do is a completely different issue.

"I take no responsibility" isn't an acceptable answer.

You don’t see anything wrong with that logic huh?  

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Just now, tonydead said:

You don’t see anything wrong with that logic huh?  

That CDC instructions to the public are different and completely unrelated to government actions that release emergency funds, equip front line health care workers and create national measures to lessen the impact of a pandemic?  Yeah I’m perfectly fine with that, because I don’t rely on false equivalencies and conflating separate issues to consider factual information.

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1 hour ago, the rover said:

That CDC instructions to the public are different and completely unrelated to government actions that release emergency funds, equip front line health care workers and create national measures to lessen the impact of a pandemic?  Yeah I’m perfectly fine with that, because I don’t rely on false equivalencies and conflating separate issues to consider factual information.

The average, normal human head weighs eleven pounds.  

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2 hours ago, John123 said:

So what do people think of the Los Angeles Unified School District's plan?

https://twitter.com/BridgetPhetasy/status/1366507394541387779

It’s great. Opening schools with regular testing and self-reporting symptoms seems like a reasonable way to return kids to the classroom. The cartoon is cheesy and heavy-handed, but the process is fine.  What’s your objection?  Free testing?  Self-reporting symptoms?  Opening schools?

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Detroit Free Press reporting that half of Michigan Republicans do not plan on getting the vaccine. SMH. 

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11 hours ago, tonydead said:

The day before he said there is no reason to be walking around with a mask on.  A full month later the CDC decides maaaaybe it's a good idea to start wearing masks, in April. Totally Trumps fault for not ordering masks in February. 

Right...NO ONE seems to remember this.  Why I can't blame anyone for how they reacted.  This was all new.

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14 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I can't claim any sort of expertise on supply chains, but I imagine it has to be really hard to distribute a vaccine -- or anything really -- that has to be kept at super-cold temperatures.  There are probably lots of case studies waiting to be written on this topic.  Off the top of my head, Israel is a tiny little country about the size of New Jersey.  Granted, Israel is constantly rocked by war and ethnic strife, but New Jersey has the Jets so even that's sort of a wash. Israel is probably playing the vaccination game on easy mode compared to a country like the US.  It's can't possibly be easy to transport vaccines across this country to and from places that need specialized equipment just to store the vaccine.

My issues are less with physical distribution and more with the general chaos and lack of clarity in getting people who need it informed and scheduled. Particularly older people and poor older people.

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

My issues are less with physical distribution and more with the general chaos and lack of clarity in getting people who need it informed and scheduled. Particularly older people and poor older people.

Do we have a lot of vaccine sitting at places that isnt being administered? 

My in laws were supposed to get dose 2 today in IL. They arent because they are out of vaccine where they were scheduled. 

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21 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Right...NO ONE seems to remember this.  Why I can't blame anyone for how they reacted.  This was all new.

It depends. Was Fauci saying no masks because he didn’t they would help or because he didn’t want to hurt the supply for hospitals? If it is the latter than perhaps some could ask did the government consider mass ordering masks before the outbreak really hit here as we know the President and other members of Congress were briefed about how easily it could be transmitted in the air before they told the public about it. 
 

Also several very important members of our government refuses to weak masks publicly or even mocked them. That certainly didn’t help getting the general public on board with mask wearing. We even just found out Trump and Melania got the vaccine in secret. Why? That would have been a huge positive PR move for the vaccine to have the two of them receive it. As I noted above, half of all Michigan Republicans said they don’t want the vaccine. More public support for it from Trump could massively reduce that number. 

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Just now, parasaurolophus said:

Do we have a lot of vaccine sitting at places that isnt being administered? 

My in laws were supposed to get dose 2 today in IL. They arent because they are out of vaccine where they were scheduled. 

It sounds like it depends where you are at. There were anecdotes posted here of rural locations having extra doses because their population doesn’t want them. But your story is another example of what I am saying, it’s chaotic. If they had an appointment for a second dose, that dose should be available. The supply chain isn’t being managed correctly for that to happen. A family friend of mine who is 70 and has heart problems has been canceled three times for his vaccine appointment and he’s at the point of just giving up on it. 

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2 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

According to This it seems like we have a supply issue. 

Yeah for sure. We had the government in December/January saying there were millions and millions more ready to ship which they later admitted wasn’t true. The communication, planning, logistics, marketing has all been pretty meh.

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51 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

It depends. Was Fauci saying no masks because he didn’t they would help or because he didn’t want to hurt the supply for hospitals? If it is the latter than perhaps some could ask did the government consider mass ordering masks before the outbreak really hit here as we know the President and other members of Congress were briefed about how easily it could be transmitted in the air before they told the public about it. 
 

Also several very important members of our government refuses to weak masks publicly or even mocked them. That certainly didn’t help getting the general public on board with mask wearing. We even just found out Trump and Melania got the vaccine in secret. Why? That would have been a huge positive PR move for the vaccine to have the two of them receive it. As I noted above, half of all Michigan Republicans said they don’t want the vaccine. More public support for it from Trump could massively reduce that number. 

I don't know why he said it then and it doesn't matter in the slightest.  Point being there were multiple inputs, multiple opinions, no one had it right.  Later sure, you can make some arguments as we know a lot more than we did then.  But back then, no one really knew.   

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5 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I don't know why he said it then and it doesn't matter in the slightest.  Point being there were multiple inputs, multiple opinions, no one had it right.  Later sure, you can make some arguments as we know a lot more than we did then.  But back then, no one really knew.   

It does matter. Telling people not to use something because it won’t help is one thing.  Telling people not to use something because we are worried we will run out since we aren’t prepared for what’s coming is another. 
 

But that’s just one tiny little point of a million points they we have botched our COVID response. If we want to be better next time, we need to look at this stuff and not just say “oh well crazy times, what can you do”. 

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9 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

It does matter. Telling people not to use something because it won’t help is one thing.  Telling people not to use something because we are worried we will run out since we aren’t prepared for what’s coming is another. 
 

But that’s just one tiny little point of a million points they we have botched our COVID response. If we want to be better next time, we need to look at this stuff and not just say “oh well crazy times, what can you do”. 

It doesn't matter...Because no one knew.  

I agree we should NOW look and learn, you're completely and totally and utterly missing the point.  I am allowing the botched response by our politicians when this started because no one knew crap.  And everyone was fumbling.

I started this to make the point that I am not blaming Cuomo for his nursing home debacle just as I am not blaming Trump for his early missteps.  

Sure we learned things and can do better next time.  We hope.

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14 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

It does matter. Telling people not to use something because it won’t help is one thing.  Telling people not to use something because we are worried we will run out since we aren’t prepared for what’s coming is another. 
 

But that’s just one tiny little point of a million points they we have botched our COVID response. If we want to be better next time, we need to look at this stuff and not just say “oh well crazy times, what can you do”. 

Lol. And it took Fauci until August to come up with that excuse. 

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