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Government Response To The Coronavirus


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1 hour ago, tonydead said:

Pointing out 4 anecdotal hypochondriacs doesnt discount his claim that millions of people went about their lives pretty normally.  

People on these boards: "we're never getting out of this pandemic because people are so selfish and refuse to follow the guidelines"

People also on these boards: "most people I know followed the guidelines"

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This is going to be a one off post because I don't want to get trolled or banned but if I were American, the context of Canada would be the biggest damning fact of how things have been handled in the

Australia has had months of little to no community spread and even then it was confined to one state. By and large Australians are running around doing the right thing, sport was and is still hap

I am confident we are going to hit >750K deaths.  I think it might be a million.  I don't post a ton but I'm an ER doc in a big city. This is by far the worse I've seen since the pandemic star

7 hours ago, jobarules said:

People on these boards: "we're never getting out of this pandemic because people are so selfish and refuse to follow the guidelines"

People also on these boards: "most people I know followed the guidelines"

Both of those statements can be true at the same time.  I don't understand the confusion. 

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FWIW....masks have ALWAYS been an option against the flu.  People just don't give a #### enough to wear them because I guess they're insecure about having cloth on their faces or some such...not really sure, but they didn't JUST become an option.  Maybe with the success we're seeing right before our eyes in combating the flu that will change, but I doubt it.  Insecurities seem to run deep in the plight of those required to wear things covering their bodies in public.  :mellow: 

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35 minutes ago, The Commish said:

FWIW....masks have ALWAYS been an option against the flu.  People just don't give a #### enough to wear them because I guess they're insecure about having cloth on their faces or some such...not really sure, but they didn't JUST become an option.  Maybe with the success we're seeing right before our eyes in combating the flu that will change, but I doubt it.  Insecurities seem to run deep in the plight of those required to wear things covering their bodies in public.  :mellow: 

Asians were doing it well ahead of this pandemic.   Interesting

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1 hour ago, supermike80 said:

Asians were doing it well ahead of this pandemic.   Interesting

And are/were generally mocked for it by people who think it's "weird", so I'm not holding my breath.  Point is, masks are a tool in a lot of places not the US, that keep people from getting sick.  There's no reason we should have this stigma around them.  I've never understood them, but I've also walked through airports and gotten on airplanes with a mask on in the height of flu season before, so maybe I'm just "weird".

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2 hours ago, The Z Machine said:

Both of those statements can be true at the same time.  I don't understand the confusion. 

Yeah, not sure why that is confusing.   Most people I know wouldn't have gone to a crowded party or a wedding in October, but there was a group of people doing both, and both caused problems in the area with an outbreak of COVID.  

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16 hours ago, Biff84 said:

My employer supplies us with KN-95 masks that are to be changed daily. It’s required because we often come into close contact with people during our job especially when giving shots. The full effectiveness can only be guaranteed for one day.

I treat cloth masks the same, one day worth of use no matter how many stops and then switch. I don’t know what the CDC recommendation is but common sense tells me that I don’t need a new mask at each stop if I’m handling it properly.

ahhh common sense vs what the Govt tells you.... that's a great idea!!   :) 

https://www.greenmatters.com/p/face-masks-gloves-litter-coronavirus

humans are globally using and disposing of an estimated 129 billion face masks and 65 billion plastic gloves every single month

 

 

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9 hours ago, The General said:

You can do whatever you want. You want to wear an old sock on your face have at it, you want to have one mask you wear for months, enjoy!

so it doesn't bother you when people do whatever they want - ie not wearing masks ?

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1 minute ago, Stealthycat said:

so it doesn't bother you when people do whatever they want - ie not wearing masks ?

Yes it bothers me. People are free to be ##### though it’s an American right. 

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2 hours ago, The Commish said:

FWIW....masks have ALWAYS been an option against the flu.  People just don't give a #### enough to wear them because I guess they're insecure about having cloth on their faces or some such...not really sure, but they didn't JUST become an option.  Maybe with the success we're seeing right before our eyes in combating the flu that will change, but I doubt it.  Insecurities seem to run deep in the plight of those required to wear things covering their bodies in public.  :mellow: 

If I'm scared to get the flu, I'll self quarantine and not go to places where i think I might contract something.

Its not society's burden to cater to my phobia's 

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2 minutes ago, The General said:

Yes it bothers me. People are free to be ##### though it’s an American right. 

so I can do what I want, except the Govt has mandates towards me ?

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4 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

If I'm scared to get the flu, I'll self quarantine and not go to places where i think I might contract something.

Its not society's burden to cater to my phobia's 

What do you think this comment has to do with the one you replied to?  :confused: 

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1 minute ago, Stealthycat said:

so I can do what I want, except the Govt has mandates towards me ?

If you want to walk around with no mask, nothing will happen to you. I see it from time to time. Haven’t seen anybody swooped up into black vans. 

I realize the little cloth rectangle over your mouth and nose is a terrible burden and the greatest sacrifice of our generation but I thank you for your service. 

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5 minutes ago, The General said:

If you want to walk around with no mask, nothing will happen to you. I see it from time to time. Haven’t seen anybody swooped up into black vans. 

I realize the little cloth rectangle over your mouth and nose is a terrible burden and the greatest sacrifice of our generation but I thank you for your service. 

Yep.   Walk into any random gas station in Indiana, for example, and about 1/3 of people aren’t wearing masks.  Similar ratio of places we stopped in TN, NC and SC.

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23 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

Of course not and I expect things to begin to return to normal by early summer as well but we are still averaging 50,000 new cases and 1,500 deaths per day in this country.  That is still higher than it was at any point last year before November.

To me it seems prudent to use precautions for another 4 weeks to give time to vaccinate the majority of Americans willing to take it

Yep.  We are still having another 9/11 every 2 days.  Why do we prevent terrorism and commemorate 9/11 when it is basically happening every other day now?

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2 hours ago, The Commish said:

FWIW....masks have ALWAYS been an option against the flu.  People just don't give a #### enough to wear them because I guess they're insecure about having cloth on their faces or some such...not really sure, but they didn't JUST become an option.  Maybe with the success we're seeing right before our eyes in combating the flu that will change, but I doubt it.  Insecurities seem to run deep in the plight of those required to wear things covering their bodies in public.  :mellow: 

They were an option we were told didnt work.

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2 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Yep.   Walk into any random gas station in Indiana, for example, and about 1/3 of people aren’t wearing masks.  Similar ratio of places we stopped in TN, NC and SC.

I don’t get it, but people can only be told what’s the best practice.

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Just now, Alex P Keaton said:

Man, how long do people cling to outdated info?   At some point we all just need to be more nimble as a species, no?

Just so we are clear, are you saying that cloth mask use is scientifically proven to reduce flu transmission? 

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27 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Yep.   Walk into any random gas station in Indiana, for example, and about 1/3 of people aren’t wearing masks.  Similar ratio of places we stopped in TN, NC and SC.

So weird.  I never see a single person in the Detroit, MI area not wearing a mask inside. Ever. and I mean not once. I see some poor mask wearing of course. But I never see them not wearing them.

Must be just the area I am in or something.

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40 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

They were an option we were told didnt work.

What?  Who told you they don't work?  Against the flu?  You guys need some new sources I guess :shrug: 

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31 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

So weird.  I never see a single person in the Detroit, MI area not wearing a mask inside. Ever. and I mean not once. I see some poor mask wearing of course. But I never see them not wearing them.

Must be just the area I am in or something.

We see it all the time at our store here in WI.  :shrug:    Had a bus come through last week and over 1/2 weren't bothering with a mask.  

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3 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

We see it all the time at our store here in WI.  :shrug:    Had a bus come through last week and over 1/2 weren't bothering with a mask.  

I see you guys say that all the time.   And I believe you.   Just crazy.

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1 hour ago, The Commish said:

What do you think this comment has to do with the one you replied to?  :confused: 

you have options

if a person is scared of catching the flu - then don't go anywhere you might be in contact with anyone who might have it

but its not society's burden to fail-safe themselves with masks and helmet and total hazmat suits to satisfy someone's fears of catching the flu right ?

that's what this has all turned into - placing the burden to keep people from catching a virus on everyone else - and while there is a little validity to this at the same time, we've totally lost the fact that people are responsible for THEMSELVES 

don't worry about what others are doing

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30 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I see you guys say that all the time.   And I believe you.   Just crazy.

Hey - we agree on something! 

IMO a bit of our situation is our state not being on the same page.  We are in Dane Co which had mask regulations, but the immediate surrounding areas didn't, so I would guess some of it is people not being used to have a mask on, and then coming here.  Plus we are a busy travel restaurant on the interstate so we get a lot of Mn and IL people who also might be used to different situations.  

I will be honest - I don't see it much when I go to stores for shopping like Target or the grocery stores, but I do see it a bit at our restaurant and at the gas stations.  Again, probably a bit of that is travelers vs. people used to the stores being that way.  

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1 hour ago, supermike80 said:

So weird.  I never see a single person in the Detroit, MI area not wearing a mask inside. Ever. and I mean not once. I see some poor mask wearing of course. But I never see them not wearing them.

Must be just the area I am in or something.

how do people eat wearing masks ?

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1 hour ago, supermike80 said:

So weird.  I never see a single person in the Detroit, MI area not wearing a mask inside. Ever. and I mean not once. I see some poor mask wearing of course. But I never see them not wearing them.

Must be just the area I am in or something.

I live in suburban Chicago.  Rarely if ever see people without a mask inside here.  Totally different world state-by-state, or even county-by-county.

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1 minute ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Hopefully they don’t eat indoors surrounded by strangers.

I think we all know that people get seated and then take their masks off

in a closed building with dozens of other people with a ventilation system recycling air, and germs and ........ airborne viruses

 

Wendy's drive through ..... I use my hands to get money, but into a plastic tub ... then they use their hands to remove the money I just touched, then touch my change, but it into a plastic tub, hand to me, then I use my hands to get the change they just touched with their hand and .... we're doing it safely because we're using a plastic bin ?

of a grocery store .... stockers use their hands to put stuff on shelves, other people can touch it, but I touch it and put in my cart, then touch it and put on a conveyer belt ... then, the checker touches it, the bagger touches it and when I get home, I touch it again putting it away ........... but we're doing it safely because we have a plastic shield at the pay area?

or, airlines have been 100% capacity for months, way way before restaurants ....... they all stand 6' apart getting onto the plane then site 6" from each other as they fly for hours - but they're flying safe ?

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17 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

I think we all know that people get seated and then take their masks off

in a closed building with dozens of other people with a ventilation system recycling air, and germs and ........ airborne viruses

 

Wendy's drive through ..... I use my hands to get money, but into a plastic tub ... then they use their hands to remove the money I just touched, then touch my change, but it into a plastic tub, hand to me, then I use my hands to get the change they just touched with their hand and .... we're doing it safely because we're using a plastic bin ?

of a grocery store .... stockers use their hands to put stuff on shelves, other people can touch it, but I touch it and put in my cart, then touch it and put on a conveyer belt ... then, the checker touches it, the bagger touches it and when I get home, I touch it again putting it away ........... but we're doing it safely because we have a plastic shield at the pay area?

or, airlines have been 100% capacity for months, way way before restaurants ....... they all stand 6' apart getting onto the plane then site 6" from each other as they fly for hours - but they're flying safe ?

What is your point with all this stuff?

You can live how you want. People are doing their best to be as safe as possible, why do you care? At the very least you aren’t getting spit on as much when you talk to random people. That’s a win in my book. 

There are going to be situations where things aren’t perfectly logical. These are best practices that are being applied to a million different situations and environments. If this virus were more deadly things would be very different. 

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19 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

you have options

if a person is scared of catching the flu - then don't go anywhere you might be in contact with anyone who might have it

but its not society's burden to fail-safe themselves with masks and helmet and total hazmat suits to satisfy someone's fears of catching the flu right ?

that's what this has all turned into - placing the burden to keep people from catching a virus on everyone else - and while there is a little validity to this at the same time, we've totally lost the fact that people are responsible for THEMSELVES 

don't worry about what others are doing

Hit the reset button and read what I posted.  You're arguing against things I didn't say.  People do have options.  If they are "scared" (strange term, but you do you) of the flu they can stay home OR they can go out in public in "fear" OR they can wear a mask out in public OR.......

Oh...and I scoff at masks being a "burden"....that's just stupid unless you also believe wearing clothes at all is a burden too...this whole line of thinking is nonsense IMO...especially when you're looking at only one edge of your double edged sword.  

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27 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

There is a study that says cloth masks do not help with the flu, like at all. And could actually make it worse. Again, this is cloth masks.

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

Thanks....this is a bit more specific than my generalized comment and a direct comparison between cloth masks and medical masks.  I'd be a fool to say that medical masks weren't better than cloth masks.  Don't disagree with that at all.  What I didn't see was what they used as "cloth masks"...there are different kinds, some of which come with "medical mask" filters that go inside.  I do acknowledge that our success in flu season this year is a combo of distance, hygiene and masks....what "importance" I'd assign to each aspect is up in the air.  

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I think overall what I learned in the last year is we are absolutely ####ed if we ever get something that is deadlier than COVID that spreads in the future (and I believe that is a when, not if - it's only a matter of time).  

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1 minute ago, KarmaPolice said:

I think overall what I learned in the last year is we are absolutely ####ed if we ever get something that is deadlier than COVID that spreads in the future (and I believe that is a when, not if - it's only a matter of time).  

I share your concern, but I also wonder how much better we would have fared under competent leadership. If the HRClinton administration had been in office, this would have been an entirely different ball game. 

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17 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Hit the reset button and read what I posted.  You're arguing against things I didn't say.  People do have options.  If they are "scared" (strange term, but you do you) of the flu they can stay home OR they can go out in public in "fear" OR they can wear a mask out in public OR.......

Oh...and I scoff at masks being a "burden"....that's just stupid unless you also believe wearing clothes at all is a burden too...this whole line of thinking is nonsense IMO...especially when you're looking at only one edge of your double edged sword.  

You know someone is losing the argument when they equate wearing a cloth mask for limited interactions in public with full hazmat gear.

We all draw the line in the sand somewhere; like you I have a hard time believing that during a global pandemic asking folks to wear a mask is burdensome. Our parents and grandparents were asked to storm beaches in Normandy and trek through jungles in Vietnam.  But ironically, in 2020 the wrap-themselves-in-the-flag America **** yeah crowd decided that wearing a mask was just too much.  

 

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6 minutes ago, tommyGunZ said:

I share your concern, but I also wonder how much better we would have fared under competent leadership. If the HRClinton administration had been in office, this would have been an entirely different ball game. 

Yes/No.   

I think currently we are pretty far down this Left/Right, don't want to give the other side an inch rabbit hole.   So I agree that we could have fared better with a better overall federal presence, I have little doubt that there still be the sentiment of "the left just wants to tell us what to do!" going around and red states and governors would have done similar as they did.  

 

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2 minutes ago, tommyGunZ said:

You know someone is losing the argument when they equate wearing a cloth mask for limited interactions in public with full hazmat gear.

We all draw the line in the sand somewhere; like you I have a hard time believing that during a global pandemic asking folks to wear a mask is burdensome. Our parents and grandparents were asked to storm beaches in Normandy and trek through jungles in Vietnam.  But ironically, in 2020 the wrap-themselves-in-the-flag America **** yeah crowd decided that wearing a mask was just too much.  

 

And ironically the person he is debating is bemoaning the fact that the government is trying to tell him what to do with his body.  

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6 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Yes/No.   

I think currently we are pretty far down this Left/Right, don't want to give the other side an inch rabbit hole.   So I agree that we could have fared better with a better overall federal presence, I have little doubt that there still be the sentiment of "the left just wants to tell us what to do!" going around and red states and governors would have done similar as they did.  

 

This is a great point.  Even with competent leadership relying on the expertise of infectious disease specialists, a significant percentage of folks would have refused to cooperate. 

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3 minutes ago, tommyGunZ said:

This is a great point.  Even with competent leadership relying on the expertise of infectious disease specialists, a significant percentage of folks would have refused to cooperate. 

One side seems to be dipping their toe into the anti-science waters more and more.  I believe that will just worsen as we get even more away from evil "MSM" and get people looking at fringe stuff for info as well.   Some of the issues at the start of this were churches too.   

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45 minutes ago, tommyGunZ said:

I share your concern, but I also wonder how much better we would have fared under competent leadership. If the HRClinton administration had been in office, this would have been an entirely different ball game. 

100% completely and totally false and I get FURIOUS when people say this.

This a pandemic. It has hammered every country on the planet--Hard.  No President would have stopped that.  Especially in a country that prides itself on freedom.  This is short sighted and ridiculous that people are still blaming Trump for any of this.

Cuomo killed old people..So did Whitmer.  The main medical person (Fauci) told young people they could go on cruises.

I remember watching a Chicago area news program where they said the virus had just been discovered there but to NOT CHANGE what to do.

We were told to not wear masks.  We we told washing our hands was the savior.  On and on.  No one knew anything and yet there are still people who blame Trump.  It is insane to me.  

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2 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

100% completely and totally false and I get FURIOUS when people say this.

This a pandemic. It has hammered every country on the planet--Hard.  No President would have stopped that.  Especially in a country that prides itself on freedom.  This is short sighted and ridiculous that people are still blaming Trump for any of this.

Cuomo killed old people..So did Whitmer.  The main medical person (Fauci) told young people they could go on cruises.

I remember watching a Chicago area news program where they said the virus had just been discovered there but to NOT CHANGE what to do.

We were told to not wear masks.  We we told washing our hands was the savior.  On and on.  No one knew anything and yet there are still people who blame Trump.  It is insane to me.  

There is a multitude of reasons we sucked at handling this, and yes - I believe our POTUS was one of said reasons.  

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I've been reading lately how rural communities, those that almost unanimously supported Trump, have no interest in getting the vaccine.   It would be really nice if Trump did a PSA that he and Melania both have gotten the vaccine and he thinks everyone else should to.  Just say that, nothing else. 

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