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Government Response To The Coronavirus


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2 hours ago, dawgtrails said:

There is a study that says cloth masks do not help with the flu, like at all. And could actually make it worse. Again, this is cloth masks.

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

From this study I think it is telling us that cloth masks are not nearly as good as medical masks or N95 respirators, but they are better than no mask at all.

“Another limitation of this study is the lack of a no-mask control group and the high use of masks in the controls, which makes interpretation of the results more difficult.”

”Cloth masks are used in resource-poor settings because of the reduced cost of a reusable option. Various types of cloth masks (made of cotton, gauze and other fibres) have been tested in vitro in the past and show lower filtration capacity compared with disposable masks.7 The protection afforded by gauze masks increases with the fineness of the cloth and the number of layers,37 indicating potential to develop a more effective cloth mask, for example, with finer weave, more layers and a better fit.”

“Cloth masks are generally retained long term and reused multiple times, with a variety of cleaning methods and widely different intervals of cleaning.34 Further studies are required to determine if variations in frequency and type of cleaning affect the efficacy of cloth masks.”

 

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This is going to be a one off post because I don't want to get trolled or banned but if I were American, the context of Canada would be the biggest damning fact of how things have been handled in the

Australia has had months of little to no community spread and even then it was confined to one state. By and large Australians are running around doing the right thing, sport was and is still hap

I am confident we are going to hit >750K deaths.  I think it might be a million.  I don't post a ton but I'm an ER doc in a big city. This is by far the worse I've seen since the pandemic star

45 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

100% completely and totally false and I get FURIOUS when people say this.

This a pandemic. It has hammered every country on the planet--Hard.  No President would have stopped that.  Especially in a country that prides itself on freedom.  This is short sighted and ridiculous that people are still blaming Trump for any of this.

Cuomo killed old people..So did Whitmer.  The main medical person (Fauci) told young people they could go on cruises.

I remember watching a Chicago area news program where they said the virus had just been discovered there but to NOT CHANGE what to do.

We were told to not wear masks.  We we told washing our hands was the savior.  On and on.  No one knew anything and yet there are still people who blame Trump.  It is insane to me.  

no president would have stopped it, but we could have fared much better.

Consider Germany - a highly industrial, first world country with stable, center-left government (relative to US politics).  A country from which travel to/from other hot spots like Italy is unimpeded.  Germany has major urban cities and small rural regions, just like USA.

Germany had 30k cases per million, compared to 90k for US - i.e. 1/3 the level of spread.  in terms of deaths: 877 per 1M, vs 1636 for USA - i.e. half the deaths.

Don't tell me that 540k American deaths were inevitable.

 

 

Edited by moleculo
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51 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

100% completely and totally false and I get FURIOUS when people say this.

Trump lied. Americans died.

I imagine you are furious often judging by how clearly terrible the Trump administration handled the pandemic.

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39 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I know.

Lol.   I think when we have reached the point where we are doing this about 80% of the time, it's time to use the ignore button and stop bogging down threads.  

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4 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Lol.   I think when we have reached the point where we are doing this about 80% of the time, it's time to use the ignore button and stop bogging down threads.  

I know.

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1 hour ago, supermike80 said:

100% completely and totally false and I get FURIOUS when people say this.

This a pandemic. It has hammered every country on the planet--Hard.  No President would have stopped that.  Especially in a country that prides itself on freedom.  This is short sighted and ridiculous that people are still blaming Trump for any of this.

Cuomo killed old people..So did Whitmer.  The main medical person (Fauci) told young people they could go on cruises.

I remember watching a Chicago area news program where they said the virus had just been discovered there but to NOT CHANGE what to do.

We were told to not wear masks.  We we told washing our hands was the savior.  On and on.  No one knew anything and yet there are still people who blame Trump.  It is insane to me.  

:goodposting:

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“I wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down,” Trump said on March 19. “Because I don’t want to create a panic.”

-When asked why didn't take more preemptive measures based on his understanding of the virus before the disease spread in the U.S., Trump said: "You didn't really think it was going to be to the point where it was." But Trump acknowledged to Woodward in February how easily transmissible and deadly the disease was.

”Hey! Pandemic Response Team!!, You’re fired!!!”

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31 minutes ago, moleculo said:

no president would have stopped it, but we could have fared much better.

Consider Germany - a highly industrial, first world country with stable, center-left government (relative to US politics).  A country from which travel to/from other hot spots like Italy is unimpeded.  Germany has major urban cities and small rural regions, just like USA.

Germany had 30k cases per million, compared to 90k for US - i.e. 1/3 the level of spread.  in terms of deaths: 877 per 1M, vs 1636 for USA - i.e. half the deaths.

Don't tell me that 540k American deaths were inevitable.

 

 

I am sure the excuses will start flying like usual - they are a smaller country, they don't take pride in their freedoms as much as we do, on and on.   

It's embarassing and sad when we double and triple up other countries on stats like the bolded.  

Like I said before, we are pretty screwed if we get hit with something more deadly in the future.  

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2 hours ago, The General said:

What is your point with all this stuff?

You can live how you want. People are doing their best to be as safe as possible, why do you care? At the very least you aren’t getting spit on as much when you talk to random people. That’s a win in my book. 

There are going to be situations where things aren’t perfectly logical. These are best practices that are being applied to a million different situations and environments. If this virus were more deadly things would be very different. 

 

but you CAN'T live "how you wan" ---- mask mandates, travel bans, shutting down schools, work ............ many freedoms were smashed with covid and I want to key in on what you said here .... ". If this virus were more deadly things would be very different. "

I think this entire Govt response was an exercise to see just what they could and couldn't do

2 years ago had I come on here and said look, we are going to see a time where schools shut down, all sports, restaurants, workplaces and mask mandates, etc etc ya'll would have said I was a conspiracy theorist and no way we'd ever see that

and yet, we did ........... and many people, in a very lemming way, just went right along with what CNN said and accepted without questioning

 

I don't go that route, never have .....  I try to question everything because make no mistake, this US Govt is working in its best interest, not mine and yours

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7 minutes ago, dozer said:

“I wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down,” Trump said on March 19. “Because I don’t want to create a panic.”

people freaked out and shut down everything .... for 45,000 deaths

since reopening, some 450,000 deaths have happened

 

tell me how freaking out helped?

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2 hours ago, The Commish said:

Hit the reset button and read what I posted.  You're arguing against things I didn't say.  People do have options.  If they are "scared" (strange term, but you do you) of the flu they can stay home OR they can go out in public in "fear" OR they can wear a mask out in public OR.......

ok I'm confused

straight up do you believe in a mask mandate or not ? if you DO ... then you are enforcing something on me, right ?

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6 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

people freaked out and shut down everything .... for 45,000 deaths

since reopening, some 450,000 deaths have happened

 

tell me how freaking out helped?

45k<450k?

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7 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

ok I'm confused

straight up do you believe in a mask mandate or not ? if you DO ... then you are enforcing something on me, right ?

My belief from the beginning is that if we wear masks, stay away from each other and wash our hands while interacting with each other, we get out of this sooner rather than later.  And the more uniformed those rules are the better/easier enforcement can be leading to higher efficacy.  If you don't want to wear a mask don't be off put by someone not letting you in their establishment.....just like shoes and shirts.  No different.  It's your decision not to wear a mask, not mine :shrug: 

Edited by The Commish
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10 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

 

but you CAN'T live "how you wan" ---- mask mandates, travel bans, shutting down schools, work ............ many freedoms were smashed with covid and I want to key in on what you said here .... ". If this virus were more deadly things would be very different. "

I think this entire Govt response was an exercise to see just what they could and couldn't do

2 years ago had I come on here and said look, we are going to see a time where schools shut down, all sports, restaurants, workplaces and mask mandates, etc etc ya'll would have said I was a conspiracy theorist and no way we'd ever see that

and yet, we did ........... and many people, in a very lemming way, just went right along with what CNN said and accepted without questioning

 

I don't go that route, never have .....  I try to question everything because make no mistake, this US Govt is working in its best interest, not mine and yours

I disagree with almost everything you wrote in here :lol:

It’s all good. Different strokes and all.

Luckily things are heading in the right direction regardless. 

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15 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

 

but you CAN'T live "how you wan" ---- mask mandates, travel bans, shutting down schools, work ............ many freedoms were smashed with covid and I want to key in on what you said here .... ". If this virus were more deadly things would be very different. "

I think this entire Govt response was an exercise to see just what they could and couldn't do

2 years ago had I come on here and said look, we are going to see a time where schools shut down, all sports, restaurants, workplaces and mask mandates, etc etc ya'll would have said I was a conspiracy theorist and no way we'd ever see that

and yet, we did ........... and many people, in a very lemming way, just went right along with what CNN said and accepted without questioning

 

I don't go that route, never have .....  I try to question everything because make no mistake, this US Govt is working in its best interest, not mine and yours

can you expand on the bolded above?

Are you implying that there should have been no response whatsovever?  what would you have done?

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@Stealthycat to my comment about if this were more deadly comment.

If this were much more deadly it would have been a complete ####show, 100 times worse than what we had.

School closings, travel bans, etc wouldn’t be some contentious thing (honestly didn’t think these were too questioned as it is up until recently). Our concerns wouldn’t be getting stuff from Amazon instead we would have difficulties keeping utilities running and food supply. 

 

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31 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Oh he did a ton of things wrong.  The list is long.  

Thank you. Wasn’t specifically talking about you but there are so many (even outside of here that I see in RL) that can’t say the same and it’s extremely frustrating and disappointing. 

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6 hours ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

Just curious, anyone here double masking?

Just took my son to an eye specialist in a really big hospital.  I double masked and I had him in a double mask.  I don't want to take any chances in that place.

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5 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

Wendy's drive through ..... I use my hands to get money, but into a plastic tub ... then they use their hands to remove the money I just touched, then touch my change, but it into a plastic tub, hand to me, then I use my hands to get the change they just touched with their hand and .... we're doing it safely because we're using a plastic bin ?

of a grocery store .... stockers use their hands to put stuff on shelves, other people can touch it, but I touch it and put in my cart, then touch it and put on a conveyer belt ... then, the checker touches it, the bagger touches it and when I get home, I touch it again putting it away ........... but we're doing it safely because we have a plastic shield at the pay area?

For all intents and purposes ... touching surfaces and fomites in general don't spread COVID.

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It feels like we’re going to reach a point in not too long where red states are going to be having trouble getting people to get vaccines while people in blue states who desperately want vaccines can’t get them.

Can anyone think of a way that the federal government can start sending more vaccines to blue states without being accused of partisanship?

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2 hours ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

It feels like we’re going to reach a point in not too long where red states are going to be having trouble getting people to get vaccines while people in blue states who desperately want vaccines can’t get them.

Can anyone think of a way that the federal government can start sending more vaccines to blue states without being accused of partisanship?

The process is already in place. The federal pharmacy partnership requires you to give the doses receive within a week or risk your future allotments. I’m sure they are doing the same with the states because the states/counties have passed on that demand to us.

So if you see a shift like you suggest, they can just say that they wants states to be giving 80% of their doses within a week. If a red state is doing 60% and a blue state is doing 95%, they have clear justification to adjust the allotment. Since it’s weekly, it can be done quickly.

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13 hours ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

It feels like we’re going to reach a point in not too long where red states are going to be having trouble getting people to get vaccines while people in blue states who desperately want vaccines can’t get them.

Can anyone think of a way that the federal government can start sending more vaccines to blue states without being accused of partisanship?

No...not really, and that shouldn't be a concern.  In those areas where demand is high, continue to open up federal vaccination sites to get more and more vaccine out and frame it as "supply/demand".  Let them whine.  It's pretty clear the Army has their #### together, at least here.  People are seeking out the federal sites and pharmacies because they are fast and efficient and can service many more people.  This was one of the primary reasons that if money were to be cut from the stimulus bill, it be cut from state vaccination rollout programs.  Let the Army handle it.  They are doing an amazing job here in Florida and with a significantly larger footprint of people.  I think the state is just now moving eligibility down to 60 and up.  Federal sites are serving all teachers, police, fire departments and people 50 (I think...might be 60) and up.

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14 hours ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Can anyone think of a way that the federal government can start sending more vaccines to blue states without being accused of partisanship?

Would anybody even notice if something like this took place?  I don't follow covid-related news obsessively, but I do follow it, and I have no idea how vaccines are currently being apportioned among the various states.  

Then again, none of this is going to matter in another six weeks, give or take.

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On 3/12/2021 at 1:51 PM, Doug B said:

For all intents and purposes ... touching surfaces and fomites in general don't spread COVID.

And washing your hands would address all of these concerns.  

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15 hours ago, The Commish said:

No...not really, and that shouldn't be a concern.  In those areas where demand is high, continue to open up federal vaccination sites to get more and more vaccine out and frame it as "supply/demand".  Let them whine.  It's pretty clear the Army has their #### together, at least here.  People are seeking out the federal sites and pharmacies because they are fast and efficient and can service many more people.  This was one of the primary reasons that if money were to be cut from the stimulus bill, it be cut from state vaccination rollout programs.  Let the Army handle it.  They are doing an amazing job here in Florida and with a significantly larger footprint of people.  I think the state is just now moving eligibility down to 60 and up.  Federal sites are serving all teachers, police, fire departments and people 50 (I think...might be 60) and up.

Huh?  Florida has vaccinated a % of the population that is slightly below the national average.   

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6 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Huh?  Florida has vaccinated a % of the population that is slightly below the national average.   

Doesn't really have anything to do with what I posted :oldunsure:  Both can be true...and I'm willing to bet Florida's "% of the population" lag is because DeSantis refused to go below age 65 until this week....and now he's "expanded" to 60 and up.  My guess is that stat is going to go up pretty quickly now that the federal sites are here and have a larger scope of who they allow to get vaccinated at their sites.  

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1 hour ago, The Commish said:

Doesn't really have anything to do with what I posted :oldunsure:  Both can be true...and I'm willing to bet Florida's "% of the population" lag is because DeSantis refused to go below age 65 until this week....and now he's "expanded" to 60 and up.  My guess is that stat is going to go up pretty quickly now that the federal sites are here and have a larger scope of who they allow to get vaccinated at their sites.  

Ok.  What is your main point then?  Not being argumentative, just literally don’t understand.  Is your point that federal sites are efficient?

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8 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Ok.  What is your main point then?  Not being argumentative, just literally don’t understand.  Is your point that federal sites are efficient?

The question from FG was if there was a way for the federal government to shift more vaccines to blue states without being labeled "partisan".  I said no.  I then went on to talk about how efficient the Army was here in Central Florida with their sites compared to the state sites.  Meaning, there is a built in way to simply send increased numbers of vaccines to those areas, but not through the states themselves and justifying it by demand.  If they are giving out a significant amount more vaccine to a larger population than the states are, the justification writes itself and they don't have to say a word about it.

Edited by The Commish
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15 minutes ago, The Commish said:

The question from FG was if there was a way for the federal government to shift more vaccines to blue states without being labeled "partisan".  I said no.  I then went on to talk about how efficient the Army was here in Central Florida with their sites compared to the state sites.  Meaning, there is a built in way to simply send increased numbers of vaccines to those areas, but not through the states themselves and justifying it by demand.  If they are giving out a significant amount more vaccine to a larger population than the states are, the justification writes itself and they don't have to say a word about it.

Thx for re-explaining.  Sorry to be thick.

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On 3/12/2021 at 1:19 PM, The Commish said:

My belief from the beginning is that if we wear masks, stay away from each other and wash our hands while interacting with each other, we get out of this sooner rather than later.  And the more uniformed those rules are the better/easier enforcement can be leading to higher efficacy.  If you don't want to wear a mask don't be off put by someone not letting you in their establishment.....just like shoes and shirts.  No different.  It's your decision not to wear a mask, not mine :shrug: 

ok but as we know, the months when masks and shutdowns and restrictions were in place, the more people got the virus  - and I mean from April 2020 - end of the year 

now you can counter with saying people didn't adhere to the mandates or that it'd have been far worse .... but those are guesses and not facts

nationwide, after the shutdowns and mask mandates and social distancing efforts etc in the following months covid19 cases soared - that's the facts

 

are shoes and shirts state wide laws/rules or per business? there's a huge difference 

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On 3/12/2021 at 11:52 AM, KarmaPolice said:

I think it's ridiculous that you would the leader of the country shares no blame for the outcome.  

and on this I agree - however realize that every leader of every major country failed - and Biden is failing horribly right now, how many tens of thousands are dead since he got into office ?

the President takes all the blame and all the credit as well with few exceptions .......... but nobody stops a virus, I think everyone knows that by now, right ?

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On 3/12/2021 at 1:27 PM, The General said:

@Stealthycat to my comment about if this were more deadly comment.

If this were much more deadly it would have been a complete ####show, 100 times worse than what we had.

School closings, travel bans, etc wouldn’t be some contentious thing (honestly didn’t think these were too questioned as it is up until recently). Our concerns wouldn’t be getting stuff from Amazon instead we would have difficulties keeping utilities running and food supply. 

 

it doesn't matter HOW well prepared a nation is - a viral pandemic with a high mortality like you suggest devastates 

 

like I pointed out - school closings, travel bans, mask mandates, weeks of shutdowns - everything that was done and every week and month there were more and more attributed covid cases and deaths

all that was done and the numbers SOARED

we can guess it'd have been worse - but it might have been just as bad with no minimal difference at all too - and that's the dots people on the left refuse to consider connecting

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On 3/12/2021 at 3:51 PM, Doug B said:

For all intents and purposes ... touching surfaces and fomites in general don't spread COVID.

that's not what was told early on - in the weeks there in March 2020 and April 2020 stores were exceptional at spraying down every cart, every carrier, every counter .... and you saw that slip away come June-July and then disappear

so much was thought about covid - so many wrong guesses 

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10 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

it doesn't matter HOW well prepared a nation is - a viral pandemic with a high mortality like you suggest devastates 

 

like I pointed out - school closings, travel bans, mask mandates, weeks of shutdowns - everything that was done and every week and month there were more and more attributed covid cases and deaths

all that was done and the numbers SOARED

we can guess it'd have been worse - but it might have been just as bad with no minimal difference at all too - and that's the dots people on the left refuse to consider connecting

Just a guess, but a contagious disease would probably have MORE cases if people weren’t isolating themselves. 

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2 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

that's not what was told early on - in the weeks there in March 2020 and April 2020 stores were exceptional at spraying down every cart, every carrier, every counter .... and you saw that slip away come June-July and then disappear

so much was thought about covid - so many wrong guesses 

Funny/sad anecdote.  My university's student wellness center still closes down twice per day for two hours at a time for "deep cleaning."  It's been doing this ever since it reopened at the start of the fall semester, which is months after we learned that fomite transmission was probably not a real thing that happens with covid.  

It's easy to chuckle about safety theater, and hey I'm all for having clean equipment.  But the result of this practice is that it herds students and faculty into the gym during the relatively narrow windows when the facility is actually open for business, which increases population density in the building and contributes to the much more real threat of airborne transmission.  Either that, or it pushes to people to smaller local gyms with ####ty ventilation.  

Great example of a policy that seems merely pointless at first glance but actually turns out to be counterproductive when you give it 60 seconds worth of thought.  

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12 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:
On 3/12/2021 at 3:51 PM, Doug B said:

For all intents and purposes ... touching surfaces and fomites in general don't spread COVID.

that's not what was told early on - in the weeks there in March 2020 and April 2020 stores were exceptional at spraying down every cart, every carrier, every counter .... and you saw that slip away come June-July and then disappear

so much was thought about covid - so many wrong guesses 

It's OK and expected for information and guidance to change frequently in the early going -- which, in a sense, we're still in with COVID-19. Why did people think best-evidence guidance from, say, March 2020 needed to be the absolute correct final word on the matter, and any subsequent changes means that "they're all full of bull all the time, changing guidance like that!" That's what's supposed to happen in response to a novel health threat.

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I will add that the popular media were wrong to make so much hay out of the early "COVID lasts forever on surfaces!!1!!!JUAN!!" studies. Not that a few stray virions can't last on surfaces after 99.9999% of their 'siblings' have passed on ... but the popular media made it sound like being able to identify a few 'living' virions on a surface meant "this surface WILL KILL YOU ON CONTACT!!!" -- which was never true.

But, the scarey click-baitey stories get the eyeballs and the clicks.

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23 minutes ago, Doug B said:

It's OK and expected for information and guidance to change frequently in the early going -- which, in a sense, we're still in with COVID-19. Why did people think best-evidence guidance from, say, March 2020 needed to be the absolute correct final word on the matter, and any subsequent changes means that "they're all full of bull all the time, changing guidance like that!" That's what's supposed to happen in response to a novel health threat.

Lol @ the bold. 

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53 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

ok but as we know, the months when masks and shutdowns and restrictions were in place, the more people got the virus  - and I mean from April 2020 - end of the year 

now you can counter with saying people didn't adhere to the mandates or that it'd have been far worse .... but those are guesses and not facts

nationwide, after the shutdowns and mask mandates and social distancing efforts etc in the following months covid19 cases soared - that's the facts

 

are shoes and shirts state wide laws/rules or per business? there's a huge difference 

sorry....I have no idea what you're saying here and I really don't feel like going through the conversation to try and figure out why the change of subject.  Last you engaged me was when I was pointing out that masks have ALWAYS been an answer in help mitigating the flu.  You then replied with some random comment about being in fear and staying home and it really had nothing to do with what I posted.  Now you're talking about shutdowns and restrictions and all this other stuff that continues to have NOTHING to do with my comment...why are you replying to my posts if you are going to be talking about things unrelated?  It just causes confusion.  Is that the goal?

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1 hour ago, The General said:

Just a guess, but a contagious disease would probably have MORE cases if people weren’t isolating themselves. 

so you're saying since there was an explosion of cases in the United States - in every state - that nobody was isolating much? even with the city/state laws mandating cautions like masks and gatherings and closures etc?

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1 hour ago, IvanKaramazov said:

My university's student wellness center still closes down twice per day for two hours at a time for "deep cleaning."

and how many students have died of covid ?  its rare for young people to contract covid and especially rare for them to get really sick and very rare for anyone young people to die - its more likely they'll die from other things than covid

and yet .... they're still "deep cleaning" ?  to protect a population that really covid isn't a threat to ?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/

less than 17 years old =- 208 deaths

18-29  = 1764 

 

and those are attributed deaths - I'd expect most to already have severe issues and covid was additional and/or a guessing they had covid

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53 minutes ago, The Commish said:

sorry....I have no idea what you're saying here and I really don't feel like going through the conversation to try and figure out why the change of subject.  Last you engaged me was when I was pointing out that masks have ALWAYS been an answer in help mitigating the flu.  You then replied with some random comment about being in fear and staying home and it really had nothing to do with what I posted.  Now you're talking about shutdowns and restrictions and all this other stuff that continues to have NOTHING to do with my comment...why are you replying to my posts if you are going to be talking about things unrelated?  It just causes confusion.  Is that the goal?

it confuses me why you can't follow a discussion 

I'll try again - you said

Quote

My belief from the beginning is that if we wear masks, stay away from each other and wash our hands while interacting with each other, we get out of this sooner rather than later

wearing masks and staying away and washing hand etc was the huge push in March/Spril of last years .... followed by months after months of more and more covid cases and deaths

that's what happened - not FEWER - but vastly more and more

can you explain how that was a victory? how that was sooner than later?

 

Quote

And the more uniformed those rules are the better/easier enforcement can be leading to higher efficacy. 

continuing above - people for the most part followed the social rules set down by the Fed Govt and .......... the numbers exploded

can you explain how that was a victory? how that was sooner than later?

 

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If you don't want to wear a mask don't be off put by someone not letting you in their establishment.....just like shoes and shirts.  No different.  It's your decision not to wear a mask, not mine  

if wearing shoes/shirt is a state mandate or even city, then its a comparable example .............. but I think shirts/shoes is a business to business rule that is set, and because of that, its a completely different thing

every day we heard of people fighting, being arrested, thrown out of stores etc for not wearing masks ......... even deaths. Not so much a decision at that point or choice really is it ?

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13 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

so you're saying since there was an explosion of cases in the United States - in every state - that nobody was isolating much? even with the city/state laws mandating cautions like masks and gatherings and closures etc?

I’m saying that without isolation that explosion would have been much, much worse. 

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1 minute ago, Stealthycat said:

it confuses me why you can't follow a discussion 

I'll try again - you said

wearing masks and staying away and washing hand etc was the huge push in March/Spril of last years .... followed by months after months of more and more covid cases and deaths

that's what happened - not FEWER - but vastly more and more

can you explain how that was a victory? how that was sooner than later?

 

continuing above - people for the most part followed the social rules set down by the Fed Govt and .......... the numbers exploded

can you explain how that was a victory? how that was sooner than later?

 

if wearing shoes/shirt is a state mandate or even city, then its a comparable example .............. but I think shirts/shoes is a business to business rule that is set, and because of that, its a completely different thing

every day we heard of people fighting, being arrested, thrown out of stores etc for not wearing masks ......... even deaths. Not so much a decision at that point or choice really is it ?

I see the problem....this isn't where the conversation started....my bad for allowing it to go this far by engaging it.  None of this has anything to do with anything in the initial engagement....we can move on.

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