Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Government Response To The Coronavirus


James Daulton

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Plenty of blame to go around, but Trump didn't take covid seriously, didn't respond to the pandemic adequately, and made a bad situation much worse by politicizing nearly everything about it.  Obviously he's not to blame for every covid death, and the administration deserves credit for OWS, but Trump does deserve a ton of blame for creating way more deaths than what we should have had. 

I think is an accurate summary. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, supermike80 said:

You don't draw conclusions Tim, come on.  CNN does them for you.  I mean the entire board knows this.  Quit it.

Such a bizarre and pointless attack. If you disagree with something I wrote then feel free to offer a rebuttal. Save the nonsense for FFT. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/26/2021 at 7:19 PM, -fish- said:

I tried to verify this, but all I found was a Washington Examiner story citing a New York Post opinion piece that claimed a scientist made "millions" selling lab monkeys and rats to wet markets.   Couldn't find any verified facts, but this story got repeated a lot over the course of a year.    Sounds apocryphal. 

I'm sure they're on Tim's list. We're good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I think is an accurate summary. 

You mean when DJT banned China travel and Biden called him racist/xenophobic for it?  Or when Operation Warp Speed, which has been a smashing success, was founded?

Let's face it, at least at that time, with those actions, he was in the right seat.  Biden would have caused many, many more deaths by keeping borders open.  And, just like now, he would likely have refused to test them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/2/2021 at 4:52 AM, growlers said:

I am confident we are going to hit >750K deaths.  I think it might be a million.  I don't post a ton but I'm an ER doc in a big city.

This is by far the worse I've seen since the pandemic started.

As an ER doc, what do you see happening when we get shots in enough arms to have herd immunity?  Given that a huge percentage of deaths are 80+ year olds, do you think that the virus, having pulled all those deaths forward, will result in a substantial drop in deaths for a few years?  Or do you believe the average lifespan of a US person has been permanently decreased?

Interested in your take as you are much closer to this than I'll ever be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, supermike80 said:

It's not bizarre, at all.   However you are right.   I

Who isn't a product of what they listen to?  A great deal of having a good thought is by listening to those you feel are the most reliable and by listening to a variety of sources - and you should absolutely listen to those channels/hosts that may challenge your opinion.

 

For instance, it's difficult to have a quality thought if you are reading Q posts all day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Who isn't a product of what they listen to?  A great deal of having a good thought is by listening to those you feel are the most reliable and by listening to a variety of sources - and you should absolutely listen to those channels/hosts that may challenge your opinion.

 

For instance, it's difficult to have a quality thought if you are reading Q posts all day.

I agree.  And my point was I don't believe said poster ever actually consumes other media.  Only CNN. I say this because I see parroting of that certain media source so much it is darn near laughable.  

Now that's fine.  People tend to only go after what supports their positions, I get that.  But there should be no pushback when it is brought up.      

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

I think there should be pushback when people act like jerks, though.

TOTALLY fine with that!  I haven't said anything about that at all!!!     Turnabout is completely fair play!

Edited by supermike80
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Plenty of blame to go around, but Trump didn't take covid seriously, didn't respond to the pandemic adequately, and made a bad situation much worse by politicizing nearly everything about it.  Obviously he's not to blame for every covid death, and the administration deserves credit for OWS, but Trump does deserve a ton of blame for creating way more deaths than what we should have had. 

Great post.  Spot on. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Plenty of blame to go around, but Trump didn't take covid seriously, didn't respond to the pandemic adequately, and made a bad situation much worse by politicizing nearly everything about it.  Obviously he's not to blame for every covid death, and the administration deserves credit for OWS, but Trump does deserve a ton of blame for creating way more deaths than what we should have had. 

I have a fundamental problem with this and I'm not being difficult just to be difficult.

Why are some people dead and some alive?   We were all given the same information.  Whether it came from Trump, of your local newspaper, or whatever.   If we are blaming these deaths on Trump because of the mask thing, why aren't more people dead?  And why did those that decided to wear masks do so even with Trump actively going against that?   How is it trumps fault people CHOSE to not wear masks when they were presented with the same information everyone else had?

I have a hard time blaming him for this and I have been steadfast on this.  I don't blame any politician for the bumbling that took place.  

The blaming Trump because people didn't wear masks thing to me doesn't stand up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How dumb is it that we have retailers that refuse to sell N95 masks right now as well as companies forbidding others to sell N95 masks(ebay, craigslist, nextdoor) and we have N95 masks sitting in warehouses with no orders?

Great policy all around. 

ETA: meanwhile we have coaches on TV wearing screen doors on their faces. 

 

 

Edited by parasaurolophus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, supermike80 said:

Can't we get them for war crimes or something?  I mean JUST the specific ones.  Don't worry.  I'm sure CNN wlll be publishing the target list soon, and it will get copied and pasted here.  

WUT?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, moleculo said:

WUT?

Wut wut?

They are being directly accused of murdering millions of Americans.  Staring with Donald Trump.  Where I come from murderers get tried.  And in this country, murder is subject to execution under federal sentencing guidelines.   What isn't clear?   Soon, CNN will publish the list of those it feels are culpable, and Tim will copy and paste it.   

That pretty much explains my post I think

Edited by supermike80
Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I have a fundamental problem with this and I'm not being difficult just to be difficult.

Why are some people dead and some alive?   We were all given the same information.  Whether it came from Trump, of your local newspaper, or whatever.   If we are blaming these deaths on Trump because of the mask thing, why aren't more people dead?  And why did those that decided to wear masks do so even with Trump actively going against that?   How is it trumps fault people CHOSE to not wear masks when they were presented with the same information everyone else had?

I have a hard time blaming him for this and I have been steadfast on this.  I don't blame any politician for the bumbling that took place.  

The blaming Trump because people didn't wear masks thing to me doesn't stand up.

This isn't true.  There are a great number of people that don't get the same information I get because of the sources they use vs the sources I use.  A person who uses our mainstream media and social media platforms like Twitter and Facebook are going to get the information they WANT.  I can assure you liberals and conservatives who go this route get completely different information.  I watch it in this forum every single day and on social media every single day.  

This is probably THE most misunderstood problem this country's citizens have with information sourcing.  We can trace almost every single issue we have back to this fact.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, The Commish said:

This isn't true.  There are a great number of people that don't get the same information I get because of the sources they use vs the sources I use.  A person who uses our mainstream media and social media platforms like Twitter and Facebook are going to get the information they WANT.  I can assure you liberals and conservatives who go this route get completely different information.  I watch it in this forum every single day and on social media every single day.  

This is probably THE most misunderstood problem this country's citizens have with information sourcing.  We can trace almost every single issue we have back to this fact.  

So wait.....Youre saying there are people out there who never heard that masks can be an effective measure to help slow the spread of the virus?  Ever?  I mean not once?  Not on the news, in papers, even on their favorite websites?

Yeah, I absolutely will tell you that is garbage.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, The Commish said:

This isn't true.  There are a great number of people that don't get the same information I get because of the sources they use vs the sources I use.  A person who uses our mainstream media and social media platforms like Twitter and Facebook are going to get the information they WANT.  I can assure you liberals and conservatives who go this route get completely different information.  I watch it in this forum every single day and on social media every single day.  

This is probably THE most misunderstood problem this country's citizens have with information sourcing.  We can trace almost every single issue we have back to this fact.  

Well then maybe the onus needs to be on a little more personal responsibility.  Personally, I sought out as much information as I could find on this thing from as many sources as possible.  Then, I used my own critical thinking skills to parse that data and form my own conclusions.  I'm still alive so I guess I did something right, but regardless the outcome of that course of action I would never blame Trump for it. 

OTOH, old people in nursing homes in NY had no choice.  Unless someone pulled them out of the nursing home like Dr. Rachel Levine did, in most cases those people had no choice but to pray.  I see a significant difference between Trump and some of the governors. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, John123 said:

Well then maybe the onus needs to be on a little more personal responsibility.  Personally, I sought out as much information as I could find on this thing from as many sources as possible.  Then, I used my own critical thinking skills to parse that data and form my own conclusions.  I'm still alive so I guess I did something right, but regardless the outcome of that course of action I would never blame Trump for it. 

OTOH, old people in nursing homes in NY had no choice.  Unless someone pulled them out of the nursing home like Dr. Rachel Levine did, in most cases those people had no choice but to pray.  I see a significant difference between Trump and some of the governors. 

It's not true.  It simply is not true.   If someone hadn't heard about masks and the perceived effectiveness, then they got far bigger issues than Trump.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, supermike80 said:

I agree.  And my point was I don't believe said poster ever actually consumes other media.  Only CNN. I say this because I see parroting of that certain media source so much it is darn near laughable.  

Now that's fine.  People tend to only go after what supports their positions, I get that.  But there should be no pushback when it is brought up.      

I would bet Tim is better at taking in various sources than most on this board (could be wrong)

And that almost all the pro trump crowd only goes to the resources that tell them what they want to hear.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, The Dude said:

I would bet Tim is better at taking in various sources than most on this board (could be wrong)

And that almost all the pro trump crowd only goes to the resources that tell them what they want to hear.

There is absolutely NO Way that is true.   Not in a million years.    He will tell you he does though.

Edited by supermike80
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, supermike80 said:

I have a fundamental problem with this and I'm not being difficult just to be difficult.

Why are some people dead and some alive?   We were all given the same information.  Whether it came from Trump, of your local newspaper, or whatever.   If we are blaming these deaths on Trump because of the mask thing, why aren't more people dead?  And why did those that decided to wear masks do so even with Trump actively going against that?   How is it trumps fault people CHOSE to not wear masks when they were presented with the same information everyone else had?

I have a hard time blaming him for this and I have been steadfast on this.  I don't blame any politician for the bumbling that took place.  

The blaming Trump because people didn't wear masks thing to me doesn't stand up.

You and I have discussed this before so I know your position on it but there are people to listen to our elected officials.  I know you don’t and don’t view them as leaders but a huge number (the majority?) of people do.  Trump in particular was/is very influential with millions and millions of people.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, dkp993 said:

You and I have discussed this before so I know your position on it but there are people to listen to our elected officials.  I know you don’t and don’t view them as leaders but a huge number (the majority?) of people do.  Trump in particular was/is very influential with millions and millions of people.  

But I am not blaming that on Trump.  he cannot be held responsible for the idiocy of Americans.  No one should be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

So wait.....Youre saying there are people out there who never heard that masks can be an effective measure to help slow the spread of the virus?  Ever?  I mean not once?  Not on the news, in papers, even on their favorite websites?

Yeah, I absolutely will tell you that is garbage.  

Most people knew it even when Fauci said masks don't work.  That's why they disappeared of the store shelves when they did.  Fauci is more complicit with the mask thing than Trump. Trump just didn't want to wear one because they look stupid.  Fauci actually convinced himself they weren't effective.  

Edited by tonydead
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Sand said:

You mean when DJT banned China travel and Biden called him racist/xenophobic for it?  Or when Operation Warp Speed, which has been a smashing success, was founded?

Let's face it, at least at that time, with those actions, he was in the right seat.  Biden would have caused many, many more deaths by keeping borders open.  And, just like now, he would likely have refused to test them.

I think if anything the restrictions on travel weren't tight enough, but I don't find fault in what the administration did in the face of WHO experts warning against imposing travel bans.   However, it did give a false sense of security and was probably meaningless since the horse was out of the barn at that point.   If that wasn't the case, travel bans would have been effective had the international spread not already occurred.  

Warp Speed was a good idea and a really good program.   It had nothing to do with the actual development of either the Moderna or Pfizer vaccines, but it certainly helped with manufacture and distribution.   

I also think Trump and his administration downplaying the severity of the virus was significant and harmful.   Taking no other meaningful steps other than a partial ban of travel from China was disastrous.   

I'm not surprised that in the face of a pandemic of a severity that happens once a century that there were both good and bad aspects to our government's response.   Looking at other countries, there were plenty that did better and some that did worse.   A post-mortem is definitely appropriate.   

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

But I am not blaming that on Trump.  he cannot be held responsible for the idiocy of Americans.  No one should be.

I disagree. We have a fundamental disagreement on the role of leaders in this country. I don’t think is a Idiotic for some people to trust and follow their elected leadership. It’s human nature.  

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

But I am not blaming that on Trump.  he cannot be held responsible for the idiocy of Americans.  No one should be.

Ahh, the Alex Jones/Lin Wood/Sidney Powell defense.   No reasonable person should have taken him seriously, so that's on them if they believed anything he said.   

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, -fish- said:

Warp Speed was a good idea and a really good program.   It had nothing to do with the actual development of either the Moderna or Pfizer vaccines, but it certainly helped with manufacture and distribution.   

Approval of the vaccine. I remember when people said they weren't going to take it because of this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, -fish- said:

I think if anything the restrictions on travel weren't tight enough, but I don't find fault in what the administration did in the face of WHO experts warning against imposing travel bans.   However, it did give a false sense of security and was probably meaningless since the horse was out of the barn at that point.   If that wasn't the case, travel bans would have been effective had the international spread not already occurred.  

Warp Speed was a good idea and a really good program.   It had nothing to do with the actual development of either the Moderna or Pfizer vaccines, but it certainly helped with manufacture and distribution.   

I also think Trump and his administration downplaying the severity of the virus was significant and harmful.   Taking no other meaningful steps other than a partial ban of travel from China was disastrous.   

I'm not surprised that in the face of a pandemic of a severity that happens once a century that there were both good and bad aspects to our government's response.   Looking at other countries, there were plenty that did better and some that did worse.   A post-mortem is definitely appropriate.   

Pretty much agree.  On the bolded this is true, but I can see the administration really struggling with self-imposed implosion of the economy.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, -fish- said:

Ahh, the Alex Jones/Lin Wood/Sidney Powell defense.   No reasonable person should have taken him seriously, so that's on them if they believed anything he said.   

Well No.   That's not what I meant.   You must have come in late

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It’s crazy how people see a President downplaying/spreading lies and don’t see any problem with it. Instead, all the blame goes to the millions of probably well-intentioned Americans who actually thought their leaders were telling the truth. What morons, right? What idiot would ever expect the President of their country to actually tell the truth and put the best interest of the country over their own? Man, the bar in American politics is so depressingly low.

Edited by Bucsfan5493
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

I disagree. We have a fundamental disagreement on the role of leaders in this country. I don’t think is a Idiotic for some people to trust and follow their elected leadership. It’s human nature.  

Fair enough.  One thing is true, Merica! You can believe what you want!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Bucsfan5493 said:

It’s crazy how people see a President downplaying/spreading lies and don’t see any problem with it. Instead, all the blame goes to the millions of probably well-intentioned Americans who actually thought their leaders were telling the truth. What morons, right? What idiot would ever expect the President of their country to tell the truth and put the best interest of the country over their own?

Nope.  Not gonna work.   Nice though but nope.  There was A TON Of information out there.  If people chose to only believe what came out of Trump's mouth, thats 100% on them.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, supermike80 said:

Yes it is.

Ok...I disagree as it is not often used as a real source of information.  It seems it is brought up far more from those making snarky comments about others getting things from there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Ok...I disagree as it is not often used as a real source of information.  It seems it is brought up far more from those making snarky comments about others getting things from there.

That would matter if you had any credibility left here, but you don't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Nope.  Not gonna work.   Nice though but nope.  There was A TON Of information out there.  If people chose to only believe what came out of Trump's mouth, thats 100% on them.   

There was a ton of misinformation but he’s the President of the United States man... his words carry much more weight than the average person. Even if you and I know politicians are full of ####, many Americans don’t and that certainly shouldn’t be the expectation. Americans should have confidence that their leaders are telling the truth and have their best interest in mind.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

That would matter if you had any credibility left here, but you don't.

Thank you for such a highly valuable comment that really added to the discussion.  

Edited by sho nuff
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Approval of the vaccine. I remember when people said they weren't going to take it because of this.

OWS had a stated goal of  facilitating the FDA evaluating multiple candidates for emergency use.  The head of the FDA under Trump disputes that is what happened. 

From Wikipedia, with a link to an archived fact sheet from DHHS:

"While coordination was expected with the FDA on technical matters, Commissioner Stephen Hahn noted that the FDA would "provide technical and development assistance to Operation Warp Speed, but the manufacturers decide if they're going to go forward or not" and clarified that the agency had "drawn a very bright line at FDA between us and Operation Warp Speed because we're the independent regulator" 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Terminalxylem said:

Hmmm...I’d like to know how hospitals deemed covid patients stable. With all the uncertainty around the period of contagion and high mortality for old folks, I doubt they were sending them out willy-nilly...unless they ran out of beds, at which point emergency protocols exist which effectively prioritize space for patients more likely to survive.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1169571/rate-nursing-home-resident-covid-deaths-by-state/

The worst states are ones that sent covid positive patients to nursing homes.  Guessing the New York number should be a lot higher now that we know they misrepresented information.  This is statistical proof imo that state mandates killed people when they had the option to keep in hospitals or send to temporary facilities that were available but never used.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Bucsfan5493 said:

There was a ton of misinformation but he’s the President of the United States man... his words carry much more weight than the average person. Even if you and I know politicians are full of ####, many Americans don’t and that certainly shouldn’t be the expectation. Americans should have confidence that their leaders are telling the truth and have their best interest in mind.

Our governor was screaming from the rooftops the opposite of Trump.  So people listened to him why? Cause he outranked her?

This is just the worst idea ever

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, John123 said:

Well then maybe the onus needs to be on a little more personal responsibility.  Personally, I sought out as much information as I could find on this thing from as many sources as possible.  Then, I used my own critical thinking skills to parse that data and form my own conclusions.  I'm still alive so I guess I did something right, but regardless the outcome of that course of action I would never blame Trump for it. 

OTOH, old people in nursing homes in NY had no choice.  Unless someone pulled them out of the nursing home like Dr. Rachel Levine did, in most cases those people had no choice but to pray.  I see a significant difference between Trump and some of the governors. 

Well yeah...no idea why anyone blindly follows our media or uses social media for anything other than Hot Take on hollywood and/or sharing pics of the grand kids with the grandparents but a lot of people do :shrug: 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, supermike80 said:

So wait.....Youre saying there are people out there who never heard that masks can be an effective measure to help slow the spread of the virus?  Ever?  I mean not once?  Not on the news, in papers, even on their favorite websites?

Yeah, I absolutely will tell you that is garbage.  

I didn't say any of that :shrug: 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

Good. Cause as I said that would be garbage

well, of course it would be....but i really have no idea how you got that out of your own words I quoted and/or my reply to those words...but this isn't the first time that's been the case.  My only point was that not all people get the same information and no hearing a blurb about masks and how they might work is not the "same" as being beaten over the head with the fact that masks work just because they both were exposed to the fact that masks work.  So if that's where you're going we'll just agree that "get the same information" doesn't mean the same thing to you as it does a great many of the rest of us and move on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

This is what you spend more than half your time doing and you post that.  

 

3 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Unbelievable.  It's like your life's mission or something.

Thank you both again for adding a lot to the topic and bored with these comments.  Really good work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, IvanKaramazov said:

Could you guys please let sho just have the last word so this stupid slap-fight doesn't go on for another two pages?

Its not about a last word or slap fight from me IK.  Im simply not going to give significant response to any of the same personal BS.  If they wish to talk about the topic...I am fine with that.  But this has been my way of attempting to shut down the same stuff that has gone on in every thread.  It gets old as even you will agree.  So instead of giving it any real thought, this is how I respond to such things.  Eventually, such comments will stop happening.  At least one would think.

  • Laughing 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   1 member

×
  • Create New...