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Government Response To The Coronavirus (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter James Daulton
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timschochet
Footballguy
Such a bizarre and pointless attack. If you disagree with something I wrote then feel free to offer a rebuttal. Save the nonsense for FFT.
supermike80
Footballguy
Sand
Footballguy
Sand
Footballguy
You mean when DJT banned China travel and Biden called him racist/xenophobic for it? Or when Operation Warp Speed, which has been a smashing success, was founded?
Let's face it, at least at that time, with those actions, he was in the right seat. Biden would have caused many, many more deaths by keeping borders open. And, just like now, he would likely have refused to test them.
Sand
Footballguy
As an ER doc, what do you see happening when we get shots in enough arms to have herd immunity? Given that a huge percentage of deaths are 80+ year olds, do you think that the virus, having pulled all those deaths forward, will result in a substantial drop in deaths for a few years? Or do you believe the average lifespan of a US person has been permanently decreased?
Interested in your take as you are much closer to this than I'll ever be.
Who isn't a product of what they listen to? A great deal of having a good thought is by listening to those you feel are the most reliable and by listening to a variety of sources - and you should absolutely listen to those channels/hosts that may challenge your opinion.
For instance, it's difficult to have a quality thought if you are reading Q posts all day.
supermike80
Footballguy
I agree. And my point was I don't believe said poster ever actually consumes other media. Only CNN. I say this because I see parroting of that certain media source so much it is darn near laughable.
Now that's fine. People tend to only go after what supports their positions, I get that. But there should be no pushback when it is brought up.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
supermike80
Footballguy
TOTALLY fine with that! I haven't said anything about that at all!!! Turnabout is completely fair play!
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supermike80
Footballguy
I have a fundamental problem with this and I'm not being difficult just to be difficult.IvanKaramazov said:
Why are some people dead and some alive? We were all given the same information. Whether it came from Trump, of your local newspaper, or whatever. If we are blaming these deaths on Trump because of the mask thing, why aren't more people dead? And why did those that decided to wear masks do so even with Trump actively going against that? How is it trumps fault people CHOSE to not wear masks when they were presented with the same information everyone else had?
I have a hard time blaming him for this and I have been steadfast on this. I don't blame any politician for the bumbling that took place.
The blaming Trump because people didn't wear masks thing to me doesn't stand up.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
How dumb is it that we have retailers that refuse to sell N95 masks right now as well as companies forbidding others to sell N95 masks(ebay, craigslist, nextdoor) and we have N95 masks sitting in warehouses with no orders?
Great policy all around.
ETA: meanwhile we have coaches on TV wearing screen doors on their faces.
Great policy all around.
ETA: meanwhile we have coaches on TV wearing screen doors on their faces.
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supermike80
Footballguy
Wut wut?
They are being directly accused of murdering millions of Americans. Staring with Donald Trump. Where I come from murderers get tried. And in this country, murder is subject to execution under federal sentencing guidelines. What isn't clear? Soon, CNN will publish the list of those it feels are culpable, and Tim will copy and paste it.
That pretty much explains my post I think
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The Commish
Footballguy
This isn't true. There are a great number of people that don't get the same information I get because of the sources they use vs the sources I use. A person who uses our mainstream media and social media platforms like Twitter and Facebook are going to get the information they WANT. I can assure you liberals and conservatives who go this route get completely different information. I watch it in this forum every single day and on social media every single day.
This is probably THE most misunderstood problem this country's citizens have with information sourcing. We can trace almost every single issue we have back to this fact.
supermike80
Footballguy
So wait.....Youre saying there are people out there who never heard that masks can be an effective measure to help slow the spread of the virus? Ever? I mean not once? Not on the news, in papers, even on their favorite websites?
Yeah, I absolutely will tell you that is garbage.
Well then maybe the onus needs to be on a little more personal responsibility. Personally, I sought out as much information as I could find on this thing from as many sources as possible. Then, I used my own critical thinking skills to parse that data and form my own conclusions. I'm still alive so I guess I did something right, but regardless the outcome of that course of action I would never blame Trump for it.
OTOH, old people in nursing homes in NY had no choice. Unless someone pulled them out of the nursing home like Dr. Rachel Levine did, in most cases those people had no choice but to pray. I see a significant difference between Trump and some of the governors.
supermike80
Footballguy
It's not true. It simply is not true. If someone hadn't heard about masks and the perceived effectiveness, then they got far bigger issues than Trump.
supermike80
Footballguy
There is absolutely NO Way that is true. Not in a million years. He will tell you he does though.
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dkp993
Footballguy
You and I have discussed this before so I know your position on it but there are people to listen to our elected officials. I know you don’t and don’t view them as leaders but a huge number (the majority?) of people do. Trump in particular was/is very influential with millions and millions of people.
supermike80
Footballguy
But I am not blaming that on Trump. he cannot be held responsible for the idiocy of Americans. No one should be.
Most people knew it even when Fauci said masks don't work. That's why they disappeared of the store shelves when they did. Fauci is more complicit with the mask thing than Trump. Trump just didn't want to wear one because they look stupid. Fauci actually convinced himself they weren't effective.
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-fish-
Footballguy
I think if anything the restrictions on travel weren't tight enough, but I don't find fault in what the administration did in the face of WHO experts warning against imposing travel bans. However, it did give a false sense of security and was probably meaningless since the horse was out of the barn at that point. If that wasn't the case, travel bans would have been effective had the international spread not already occurred.Sand said:
Warp Speed was a good idea and a really good program. It had nothing to do with the actual development of either the Moderna or Pfizer vaccines, but it certainly helped with manufacture and distribution.
I also think Trump and his administration downplaying the severity of the virus was significant and harmful. Taking no other meaningful steps other than a partial ban of travel from China was disastrous.
I'm not surprised that in the face of a pandemic of a severity that happens once a century that there were both good and bad aspects to our government's response. Looking at other countries, there were plenty that did better and some that did worse. A post-mortem is definitely appropriate.
dkp993
Footballguy
I disagree. We have a fundamental disagreement on the role of leaders in this country. I don’t think is a Idiotic for some people to trust and follow their elected leadership. It’s human nature.
-fish-
Footballguy
Ahh, the Alex Jones/Lin Wood/Sidney Powell defense. No reasonable person should have taken him seriously, so that's on them if they believed anything he said.
Approval of the vaccine. I remember when people said they weren't going to take it because of this.
Sand
Footballguy
Pretty much agree. On the bolded this is true, but I can see the administration really struggling with self-imposed implosion of the economy.
supermike80
Footballguy
Bucsfan5493
Footballguy
It’s crazy how people see a President downplaying/spreading lies and don’t see any problem with it. Instead, all the blame goes to the millions of probably well-intentioned Americans who actually thought their leaders were telling the truth. What morons, right? What idiot would ever expect the President of their country to actually tell the truth and put the best interest of the country over their own? Man, the bar in American politics is so depressingly low.
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supermike80
Footballguy
supermike80
Footballguy
Nope. Not gonna work. Nice though but nope. There was A TON Of information out there. If people chose to only believe what came out of Trump's mouth, thats 100% on them.
supermike80
Footballguy
Bucsfan5493
Footballguy
There was a ton of misinformation but he’s the President of the United States man... his words carry much more weight than the average person. Even if you and I know politicians are full of ####, many Americans don’t and that certainly shouldn’t be the expectation. Americans should have confidence that their leaders are telling the truth and have their best interest in mind.
sho nuff
Footballguy
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-fish-
Footballguy
OWS had a stated goal of facilitating the FDA evaluating multiple candidates for emergency use. The head of the FDA under Trump disputes that is what happened.
From Wikipedia, with a link to an archived fact sheet from DHHS:
"While coordination was expected with the FDA on technical matters, Commissioner Stephen Hahn noted that the FDA would "provide technical and development assistance to Operation Warp Speed, but the manufacturers decide if they're going to go forward or not" and clarified that the agency had "drawn a very bright line at FDA between us and Operation Warp Speed because we're the independent regulator"
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1169571/rate-nursing-home-resident-covid-deaths-by-state/Terminalxylem said:
The worst states are ones that sent covid positive patients to nursing homes. Guessing the New York number should be a lot higher now that we know they misrepresented information. This is statistical proof imo that state mandates killed people when they had the option to keep in hospitals or send to temporary facilities that were available but never used.
supermike80
Footballguy
Our governor was screaming from the rooftops the opposite of Trump. So people listened to him why? Cause he outranked her?
This is just the worst idea ever
The Commish
Footballguy
Well yeah...no idea why anyone blindly follows our media or uses social media for anything other than Hot Take on hollywood and/or sharing pics of the grand kids with the grandparents but a lot of people do
supermike80
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
supermike80
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
well, of course it would be....but i really have no idea how you got that out of your own words I quoted and/or my reply to those words...but this isn't the first time that's been the case. My only point was that not all people get the same information and no hearing a blurb about masks and how they might work is not the "same" as being beaten over the head with the fact that masks work just because they both were exposed to the fact that masks work. So if that's where you're going we'll just agree that "get the same information" doesn't mean the same thing to you as it does a great many of the rest of us and move on.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
I think for some weird reason some people think the mainstream media is lying to them and Democrats are lying to them and establishment Republicans are lying to them and scientists are lying too.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Thank you both again for adding a lot to the topic and bored with these comments. Really good work.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Could you guys please let sho just have the last word so this stupid slap-fight doesn't go on for another two pages?
sho nuff
Footballguy
Its not about a last word or slap fight from me IK. Im simply not going to give significant response to any of the same personal BS. If they wish to talk about the topic...I am fine with that. But this has been my way of attempting to shut down the same stuff that has gone on in every thread. It gets old as even you will agree. So instead of giving it any real thought, this is how I respond to such things. Eventually, such comments will stop happening. At least one would think.
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