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Government Response To The Coronavirus


James Daulton

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10 hours ago, Thunderlips said:

Politically speaking, the worst part about the slowdown in the vaccines is that since they're taking place in a number of red states/areas....when COVID hits those place again hard, while not hitting areas in which the vaccine has been abosorbed into, there's going to be a whole new line of conspiracy theories for the Trump Republican to glom on to.  

Sounds a lot like the previous front running of disaster that never occurred.  Florida should be obliterated by now considering the apocalypse predictions that came over the past year with "beaches" and "no masks" and "the superbowl" and... 

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Well, one in every 612 people in the state has died of COVID.  Probably higher looking at excess deaths.  So kind of a big deal as it is. 

Thankfully most people (not just Florida) don't listen to elected officials for medical advice or it would be worse in a lot of states.

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1 hour ago, djmich said:

Sounds a lot like the previous front running of disaster that never occurred.  Florida should be obliterated by now considering the apocalypse predictions that came over the past year with "beaches" and "no masks" and "the superbowl" and... 

Spring Break spike going to hit any day now!

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12 hours ago, tonydead said:

50K packed in for the draft tonight. All vaccinated. :thumbup:

 

I kept meaning to comment during the draft that NFL did a really good job making the case for vaccination last night.  The whole first round was basically "Look at all these vaccinated people having fun and living their lives!" which is exactly the message we should all be shouting from the rooftops.  Instead Biden is wearing a mask on Zoom calls.

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19 hours ago, Sinn Fein said:

Travel ban from incoming non-US citizens traveling from India - incoming.

I'd be fine with a travel ban on anyone who isn't vaccinated flying in from another country until the world is at herd immunity.   Get vaccinated or be willing to withstand a mandatory 14-day quarantine in an official quarantine facility.   That's what we should have done back in January 2020.

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54 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

I'd be fine with a travel ban on anyone who isn't vaccinated flying in from another country until the world is at herd immunity.   Get vaccinated or be willing to withstand a mandatory 14-day quarantine in an official quarantine facility.   That's what we should have done back in January 2020.

That's what the nations that have fared best in this thing have done.  Of course, they are island nations that can control their migration flows more easily than the USA.

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20 hours ago, Sinn Fein said:

Travel ban from incoming non-US citizens traveling from India - incoming.

I hope they have a strict protocol for any citizen returning because they are just as likely as non-residents to have COVID.

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2 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

I'd be fine with a travel ban on anyone who isn't vaccinated flying in from another country until the world is at herd immunity.   Get vaccinated or be willing to withstand a mandatory 14-day quarantine in an official quarantine facility.   That's what we should have done back in January 2020.

Agreed.  I don't think we could have done this (realistically) in 2020, but it makes sense now.

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4 minutes ago, djmich said:

Fauci

Glad at least someone is benefitting from COVID.  A bit unseemly to me, but maybe because I'm not a fan.

He didn’t ask for this but why not take it? IMO the guy is a true American hero many times over. I’ve never understood the resentment and dislike from the right. 

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Just now, timschochet said:

He didn’t ask for this but why not take it? IMO the guy is a true American hero many times over. I’ve never understood the resentment and dislike from the right. 

Well to start he's a liar.

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5 minutes ago, djmich said:

Well to start he's a liar.

I don’t think so. We’ve gone over this so there’s no point in rehashing it but I don’t believe you’re right. I also don’t see any motivation for whatsoever given his lifetime of service. 

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2 hours ago, parasaurolophus said:

Strict protocol like what? Locking up american citizens? 

 

I don’t know but letting anyone in citizen or not flying from a country getting crushed by COVID presents a huge risk. Citizenship doesn’t make you less likely to have COVID. I’d hope that there is testing before and after arrival and some sort of quarantine. The last thing we need is a new variant messing up what we have done with vaccines:

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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

I don’t think so. We’ve gone over this so there’s no point in rehashing it but I don’t believe you’re right. I also don’t see any motivation for whatsoever given his lifetime of service. 

Sounds like its a political issue for you so you're intrenched in an opinion in order to be against "the right" and rather than seeking information you sweep any potential concerns under the rug with a blanket "what motivations could he have" argument.  Enjoy

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21 minutes ago, djmich said:

Sounds like its a political issue for you so you're intrenched in an opinion in order to be against "the right" and rather than seeking information you sweep any potential concerns under the rug with a blanket "what motivations could he have" argument.  Enjoy

I see this as the opposite. The only reason that those on the right distrust or dislike Fauci, IMO, is because they view this in a political lens. 

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

I see this as the opposite. The only reason that those on the right distrust or dislike Fauci, IMO, is because they view this in a political lens. 

I think many view him as the ultimate authority figure - the guy telling them what they should and shouldn’t do. That’s why any little thing he doesn’t do right gets scrutinized to the max. In a world where people are rebelling against what they are being told they should do, he’s the ultimate target for that anger.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, djmich said:

Fauci

Glad at least someone is benefitting from COVID.  A bit unseemly to me, but maybe because I'm not a fan.

Miles below the belt here. It’s fine and proper for him to be on magazine covers. That tweet is reaching very hard and inventing a criticism out of pretty much nothing.

And then I scroll down and see a bunch of hard-right Twitter accounts. “Sure, Jan.” Dismissed with prejudice.

Edited by Doug B
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20 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Why couldn’t we have done it in 2020 (minus the vaccine part)?

The US isn't the type of country that can just close its borders, and the cost of doing so is too high.  Whatever it would have cost to put up a wall around the country -- which would be astronomical in terms of trade and supply chain implications -- would have been better spent on contact tracing.

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21 hours ago, timschochet said:

He didn’t ask for this but why not take it? IMO the guy is a true American hero many times over. I’ve never understood the resentment and dislike from the right. 

You have some really bizarre takes on public servants.  This one is reminiscent of Hillary Clinton being the greatest American leader since Eisenhower.  

I mean, I can see somebody praising Fauci for making the best choices he could given that he was in a bad situation and dealt a bad hand, but he made the pandemic worse by lying about masking and then later downplaying the effectiveness of vaccines.  He's forgotten more about infections diseases than I'll ever know, but he made rookie mistakes in public messaging that cost lives.

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1 hour ago, IvanKaramazov said:

The US isn't the type of country that can just close its borders, and the cost of doing so is too high.  Whatever it would have cost to put up a wall around the country -- which would be astronomical in terms of trade and supply chain implications -- would have been better spent on contact tracing.

Fair.  It’s embarrassing that we couldn’t figure out contact tracing when some other countries figured it out decently.

I still don’t see why we couldn’t have shut down non-essential air travel, but maybe that’s just me.

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On 5/1/2021 at 6:33 AM, Alex P Keaton said:

I'd be fine with a travel ban on anyone who isn't vaccinated flying in from another country until the world is at herd immunity

So never then? It’s looking less and less likely we will even achieve that here.  To many people refusing to get the vaccine.  :wall:

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1 hour ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I mean, I can see somebody praising Fauci for making the best choices he could given that he was in a bad situation and dealt a bad hand, but he made the pandemic worse by lying about masking and then later downplaying the effectiveness of vaccines.  He's forgotten more about infections diseases than I'll ever know, but he made rookie mistakes in public messaging that cost lives.

From what I can tell after the fact, there was no good way available here.

Sure, in retrospect, we can say "Honesty is always the best policy ... no exceptions!" Problem was, Americans as a collective are selfish AF. If Fauci and the Surgeon General go on the air in March 2020 telling people they gotta get masks pronto -- I mean, we can only assume -- but I feel safe in assuming that Americans who had means to pay for, hook, or crook masks would've horded them like Scrooge McDuck horded gold coins. By the beginning of March 2020, a lot of the America public were already over-buying and interrupting the medical mask supply chain as it was. Fauci giving the green light to anyone on the fence could've easily been disastrous for medical providers given the information that was then known.

The real answer, in retrospect, would've been for the U.S. manufacturing to sell out hard for mask production starting the day in January 2020 when Wuhan went into lockdown. The U.S. had a good 6-8 week headstart on the rest of the world. And, yeah, at the time it wasn't considered an inevitability that the U.S. was going to be touched by COVID -- after all, we had seen the SARS movie before. But still: worst case, we stockpile all those quick-made masks our own use or else sell them off to other countries. A glut of masks can be managed a lot easier than a dangerous deficit of masks.

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47 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

So never then? It’s looking less and less likely we will even achieve that here.  To many people refusing to get the vaccine.  :wall:

No big deal.  Those people just won't be allowed to travel internationally.  The rest of us are good to go.

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3 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

No big deal.  Those people just won't be allowed to travel internationally.  The rest of us are good to go.

Until the lack of herd immunity allows enough time a space for COVID to mutate into something we aren’t vaccinated for.  People are awesome.   

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3 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Until the lack of herd immunity allows enough time a space for COVID to mutate into something we aren’t vaccinated for.  People are awesome.   

Sure, but that's a potential problem regardless of any restrictions we place on international travel.  There's nothing we can do to force people to get vaccinated.

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2 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Sure, but that's a potential problem regardless of any restrictions we place on international travel.  There's nothing we can do to force people to get vaccinated.

Agreed.  Was just taking the opportunity to vent.  

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Also, at this point my concern about a new super-variant evolving out there is pretty low.  Our ability to vaccinate against coronaviruses is way more advanced than I thought a year ago.  If a dangerous variant that evades our current vaccines emerges, we'll just vaccinate against that one.  Not a big deal.

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2 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Also, at this point my concern about a new super-variant evolving out there is pretty low.  Our ability to vaccinate against coronaviruses is way more advanced than I thought a year ago.  If a dangerous variant that evades our current vaccines emerges, we'll just vaccinate against that one.  Not a big deal.

Maybe, but that mindset is extremely dangerous imo (though not as dangerous as those refusing to think outside their own personal biases and think of others/collective) and basically rolling the dice.  Mother Nature is a fickle angry thing at times with a huge bag of tricks. I for one don’t believe we’ve got her 100% mastered yet.  

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1 hour ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Fair.  It’s embarrassing that we couldn’t figure out contact tracing when some other countries figured it out decently.

I still don’t see why we couldn’t have shut down non-essential air travel, but maybe that’s just me.

Sometimes I wonder if I live in the same country as you guys. 

It isnt that we couldnt "figure it out" its that it doesnt work in the US. South Korea "figured it out" because they can basically track anybody they want, get all credit card purchases from a business, have full access to security footage, can easily get all cell phone data, require you to get tested and require you to separate from your family just because you came in contact with a sick person. 

We think it is racist and terrible to require ID to vote. 

Yeah. Sure, if only we would have figured it out. 

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Sometimes I wonder if I live in the same country as you guys. 

It isnt that we couldnt "figure it out" its that it doesnt work in the US. South Korea "figured it out" because they can basically track anybody they want, get all credit card purchases from a business, have full access to security footage, can easily get all cell phone data, require you to get tested and require you to separate from your family just because you came in contact with a sick person. 

We think it is racist and terrible to require ID to vote. 

Yeah. Sure, if only we would have figured it out. 

I’d be fine with all of that in a pandemic.

Basically, we just don’t have the fortitude to accept tough decisions.  We are a country of weak people.

Edited by Alex P Keaton
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8 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

I’d be fine with all of that in a pandemic.

Basically, we just don’t have the fortitude to accept tough decisions.  We are a country of weak people.

I don’t agree. I think we’re tough enough. But we need tough leaders to tell us the way things are. 

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6 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I don’t agree. I think we’re tough enough. But we need tough leaders to tell us the way things are. 

You mean like Fauci telling us masks work from the beginning.

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29 minutes ago, djmich said:

You mean like Fauci telling us masks work from the beginning.

As @Doug B correctly points out, there were risks to that approach. Obviously honesty is not best in all situations- as the ultimate example, you don’t tell the public  if you suspect there is a nuclear bomb somewhere in Manhattan. 
 

But in general, it’s better for leaders to tell folks the tough news. We can take it. For example, I would like Biden to say “we have to spend this money, it will be good for the country, and we have to raise your taxes to do it- not just taxes on the wealthy, but on everyone.” 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, timschochet said:

I don’t agree. I think we’re tough enough. But we need tough leaders to tell us the way things are. 

That last leader that did that your side threw a 4 year temper tantrum and tried to impeach him/remove him from office.  Liberal posters in here LITERALLY started a thread that questioned if they were in a dictatorship.  :shrug:

Heck we can't even call a man a "man" anymore or a woman a "woman" or the left loses it.

You guys can't handle tough or anyone saying the way things are.  The left loses their sh#t every time someone does.  Doesn't even have to be a leader.

Edited by BladeRunner
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2 hours ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

There are plenty of things we can do that would influence more people to be vaccinated.

I was responding to a poster who was talking about vaccination rates outside the US.  Our ability to even influence global vaccination rates is pretty limited, and I think we all need to understand that worldwide vaccination is going to be a heavier lift than domestic vaccination, and it's going to take a while.  

In the meantime, requiring vaccination for international travel seems like a prudent restriction that can easily be incorporated into our current passport system.  We already require particular vaccines for travel to particular regions, so this wouldn't be anything new.  And most importantly, it allows people to travel freely while we work on vaccines.  Putting everything on hold while we sit around and wait for global herd immunity is a bad idea that none of us should be willing to tolerate.

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1 hour ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I was responding to a poster who was talking about vaccination rates outside the US.  Our ability to even influence global vaccination rates is pretty limited, and I think we all need to understand that worldwide vaccination is going to be a heavier lift than domestic vaccination, and it's going to take a while.  

In the meantime, requiring vaccination for international travel seems like a prudent restriction that can easily be incorporated into our current passport system.  We already require particular vaccines for travel to particular regions, so this wouldn't be anything new.  And most importantly, it allows people to travel freely while we work on vaccines.  Putting everything on hold while we sit around and wait for global herd immunity is a bad idea that none of us should be willing to tolerate.

I am in favor of nearly anything that adds a vaccination requirement. 

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6 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Also, at this point my concern about a new super-variant evolving out there is pretty low.  Our ability to vaccinate against coronaviruses is way more advanced than I thought a year ago.  If a dangerous variant that evades our current vaccines emerges, we'll just vaccinate against that one.  Not a big deal.

I agree, the vaccine technology is amazing and likely can pivot just like you say. But you underestimate the effort it will take with any booster and the lack of compliance. There are high risk people out there that rightly living their lives. Any variant that evades the vaccines will tear through the country before we’re able to get enough people the booster. With every booster we have to give, the compliance will get another factor more difficult. More people will give up on the vaccine being effective or view it as a never ending cycle of vaccination.

The best case scenario is never needing a booster shot and I think we’re currently on track for that. Anything we can do to prevent a resistant variant from getting prominent, we need to do.

 

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6 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

I’d be fine with all of that in a pandemic.

Basically, we just don’t have the fortitude to accept tough decisions.  We are a country of weak people.

Just so you know, being willing to work from home doesnt make you tough. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, John123 said:

So if we're "following the science", why is a powerful teacher's union collaborating with the CDC and white house on guidance for reopening schools?

https://nypost.com/2021/05/01/teachers-union-collaborated-with-cdc-on-school-reopening-emails/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site buttons&utm_campaign=site buttons

Well some of the teachers probably teach science. 

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