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Government Response To The Coronavirus


James Daulton

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23 hours ago, Biff84 said:
23 hours ago, Apple Jack said:

Can't wait to see where this is going.

Cars and turkey hunting are always good guesses.

Sorry, you needed "opioid addiction" on your bingo card.   Thanks for playing wheel of irrelevant nonsense!

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Our corporation just lifted all facial covering requirements for employees or subcontractors that are fully vaccinated.  Still have to follow local laws, which sucks for me, but am glad to know we are smart enough to follow the science and not the administration's puppets.

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39 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

Just saw news that Biden supports patent waiver for vaccines. I think this is a bad idea and disappointed he bowed to pressure on this one. 

You think it is a bad idea to increase the global supply and access to the vaccine?

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40 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

Just saw news that Biden supports patent waiver for vaccines. I think this is a bad idea and disappointed he bowed to pressure on this one. 

Why do you think it's a bad idea?

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59 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

Just saw news that Biden supports patent waiver for vaccines. I think this is a bad idea and disappointed he bowed to pressure on this one. 

But what you're missing if that if the goose can lay golden eggs, just think about what we could get out if it if we killed it.

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20 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Yeah... let’s see what we can do to make PFE lose money after saving tens of thousands lives

How would they lose money?

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Just now, -fish- said:

How would they lose money?

On the initial investment. I don’t know the break even point so maybe they have already covered that. 
 

Did you see the 60 minutes story about the vaccine development that aired several months ago?  I’d like to see them get rewarded for their risk and doing the right thing.  
 

I could see maybe trading some extra patent protection on boner medicine or the like in exchange for curtailing it here

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2 hours ago, the moops said:

You think it is a bad idea to increase the global supply and access to the vaccine?

I don't think it is going to really move the needle much on supply this year.  For example, Pfizer is going to make 3 billion dosses this year so honestly I don't think you are going to get significant additional doses of their vaccine this year but you basically remove all private incentive for preparing vaccines for a pandemnic.  Also, Pfizer is charging the U.S. about 20 dollars a dose which I wouldn't call price gauging under any circumstances.  Ivan said it better then me - just go kill the goose that laid the golden egg.  

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12 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

On the initial investment. I don’t know the break even point so maybe they have already covered that. 
 

Did you see the 60 minutes story about the vaccine development that aired several months ago?  I’d like to see them get rewarded for their risk and doing the right thing.  
 

I could see maybe trading some extra patent protection on boner medicine or the like in exchange for curtailing it here

They have already made a profit on it and they will make a lot of profits on it.  I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with that.  The vaccine could have easily failed as well.  

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2 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

They have already made a profit on it and they will make a lot of profits on it.  I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with that.  The vaccine could have easily failed as well.  

If I don’t mutate into a super hero soon I’ll consider it a failure 

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20 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

On the initial investment. I don’t know the break even point so maybe they have already covered that. 
 

Did you see the 60 minutes story about the vaccine development that aired several months ago?  I’d like to see them get rewarded for their risk and doing the right thing.  
 

I could see maybe trading some extra patent protection on boner medicine or the like in exchange for curtailing it here

They have already made a ton of profit, with both manufacturing and distribution subsidized or paid for entirely by our government and foreign government.   They may be missing out on near-unlimited profits by profiteering on a pandemic, but they are by no means at risk of losing money.

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23 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

I don't think it is going to really move the needle much on supply this year.  For example, Pfizer is going to make 3 billion dosses this year so honestly I don't think you are going to get significant additional doses of their vaccine this year but you basically remove all private incentive for preparing vaccines for a pandemnic.  Also, Pfizer is charging the U.S. about 20 dollars a dose which I wouldn't call price gauging under any circumstances.  Ivan said it better then me - just go kill the goose that laid the golden egg.  

The US supporting the patient waiver is incredibly stupid, and the people responsible for this decision know better. This move is just for appearances sake.

In the short term -there will be zero increase in vaccine supply.

In the intermediate term - there is an equal chance that vaccine supply is slightly increased OR diminished as scare resources are use in a suboptimal fashion.

In the long term - potentially a significant negative effect, as IP rights are trampled. Hey, maybe China will lead vaccine development during the next pandemic, that should work out well for the US.

Hopefully this is all bullish!t.

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7 minutes ago, Whyatt said:

Hey, maybe China will lead vaccine development during the next pandemic, that should work out well for the US.

You think that drug companies won't still push to find a vaccine for the next pandemic because they only make 200 billion in profits as opposed to 1 trillion? Numbers are obviously made up, but Pfizer and Moderna are going to make a #### ton of money. if the next pandemic comes aroud and they sit it out because they will make less but still a lot of money, that is bad business and something I am skeptical that they would do

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3 minutes ago, the moops said:

You think that drug companies won't still push to find a vaccine for the next pandemic because they only make 200 billion in profits as opposed to 1 trillion? Numbers are obviously made up, but Pfizer and Moderna are going to make a #### ton of money. if the next pandemic comes aroud and they sit it out because they will make less but still a lot of money, that is bad business and something I am skeptical that they would do

Will there be any profits the next pandemic? Do you know for sure? How about for the upcoming booster vaccine for Covid next year.

Pandora’s box is about to be opened. Do you think the government could have responded as quickly as Industry? If we aren’t careful we are killing the golden goose- a great analogy.

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12 minutes ago, Whyatt said:

Will there be any profits the next pandemic? Do you know for sure? How about for the upcoming booster vaccine for Covid next year.

Pandora’s box is about to be opened. Do you think the government could have responded as quickly as Industry? If we aren’t careful we are killing the golden goose- a great analogy.

Why wouldn't there be profit to be made next pandemic? Someone has to develop it and they won't do it for nothing. I am confused with your line of thinking here

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53 minutes ago, -fish- said:

They have already made a ton of profit, with both manufacturing and distribution subsidized or paid for entirely by our government and foreign government.   They may be missing out on near-unlimited profits by profiteering on a pandemic, but they are by no means at risk of losing money.

Well this isn't true.  Pfizer did not take money from the U.S. govt. but signed a contract to deliver 100mm doses for like 1.5 billion if they got FDA approval.  So they didn't get any funding from our govt. unless they had a proven product. Their partner BioNtech did get about $450mm dollars to build out manufacturing capacity in Germany which would supply Germany in about September of last year write when it was about to enter phase III trials.  

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The mRNA platform for vaccines has been under development for the last decade, check the Moderna Wikipedia page for some background. 10+ years with no profits, but thankfully they kept at it, had investors, and developed their IP. If the resources hadn’t been invested the last 10 years, we would not have had the Moderna vaccine yet. Pfizer made similar investments.

What happens now if the IP is not protected? Do companies have incentive to be ready?

Thanks for the honest discussion.

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8 minutes ago, Whyatt said:

The mRNA platform for vaccines has been under development for the last decade, check the Moderna Wikipedia page for some background. 10+ years with no profits, but thankfully they kept at it, had investors, and developed their IP. If the resources hadn’t been invested the last 10 years, we would not have had the Moderna vaccine yet. Pfizer made similar investments.

What happens now if the IP is not protected? Do companies have incentive to be ready?

Thanks for the honest discussion.

The profit on this vaccine is not an issue, it’s what happens next. As soon as they open up the waiver precedence, that’s going to scare off a lot of companies from future vaccine development during a pandemic. I’d say a push for other measures such as collaborative agreements would be much better. Find other drug manufactures who may be to help increase capacity and give them incentive to help while keeping the control with the original companies.

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I'm sorry but we are ####ed as a people if our response to trying to increase supply of vaccines for the rest of the world is "well what about the profits for the next company that develops the next vaccine for the next pandemic"

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10 minutes ago, the moops said:

I'm sorry but we are ####ed as a people if our response to trying to increase supply of vaccines for the rest of the world is "well what about the profits for the next company that develops the next vaccine for the next pandemic"

I generally agree with this, but it would be great if there was another way to serve the world.  Not sure what it is though. 

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6 minutes ago, the moops said:

I'm sorry but we are ####ed as a people if our response to trying to increase supply of vaccines for the rest of the world is "well what about the profits for the next company that develops the next vaccine for the next pandemic"

It’s not the profit for the next vaccine, it’s removing the motivation to develop the next one. The main reason why we’ve done so well with the vaccine this time is because we had several companies highly motivated to make it to market. They’re already taking a risk that their development will fall flat and get nothing out of it. If you add in the possibility that the government might open up the patent if it works, you’re gonna struggle to find companies to develop the vaccines.

The system is broken but I don’t think this where you take a stand. I certainly think we need to doing more to get the vaccine out to the world but opening up the patent could prove to be a major detriment to future vaccine development.

I have great distain for drug companies and have thoughts of what should be done to combat the high drug prices including changes to patent laws but this isn’t the place to take a stand against them.

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1 hour ago, Redwes25 said:

Well this isn't true.  Pfizer did not take money from the U.S. govt. but signed a contract to deliver 100mm doses for like 1.5 billion if they got FDA approval.  So they didn't get any funding from our govt. unless they had a proven product. Their partner BioNtech did get about $450mm dollars to build out manufacturing capacity in Germany which would supply Germany in about September of last year write when it was about to enter phase III trials.  

Pfizer did not take money for development.  They not only got guaranteed contracts for sale, but they manufacturing was subsidized and they didn’t actually have to distribute.  They were paid nearly $2 billion without giving up any IP rights, which they normally would have in a government contract.

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Here’s another perspective.

Both the Russian and Chinese governments have developed vaccines quickly for Covid. Do a little research on the efficacy and safety concerns of these vaccines. Imagine if that is what we were stuck with.

The mRNA vaccines are absolutely fantastic and the ability to develop, manufacture and distribute them at the rate seen should rank among the top accomplishments of our time, no hyperbole.

Yes, the industry has its faults, but consider the alternatives.

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59 minutes ago, -fish- said:

They were paid nearly $2 billion without giving up any IP rights, which they normally would have in a government contract.

This is not normal, not sure what you mean.

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1 hour ago, Biff84 said:

The system is broken

Consider the broken system developed, manufactured and distributed enough highly efficacious vaccine for the entire United States in about 18 months. 

No one expected that. And in my opinion, no other system could have delivered that result.

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2 minutes ago, Whyatt said:

Consider the broken system developed, manufactured and distributed enough highly efficacious vaccine for the entire United States in about 18 months. 

No one expected that. And in my opinion, no other system could have delivered that result.

Yes and to maintain that system we need to avoid making moves that would jeopardize that success in future vaccine development. The same moves that would allow for better worldwide results can’t be done. Just because a system is highly successful, doesn’t mean it’s not broken.

Brand name medications are another example. When a new medication comes out it’s often priced excessively high to pay for R&D which keeps insurance coverage poor and out of pocket prices impossible. The government could step in and open up patents but that may reduce R&D motivation and investment. The greater good is blocked again. I’d call that a broken system despite its successes.

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2 hours ago, the moops said:

I'm sorry but we are ####ed as a people if our response to trying to increase supply of vaccines for the rest of the world is "well what about the profits for the next company that develops the next vaccine for the next pandemic"

You dont understand the world in which you live. 

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4 hours ago, -fish- said:

They have already made a ton of profit, with both manufacturing and distribution subsidized or paid for entirely by our government and foreign government.   They may be missing out on near-unlimited profits by profiteering on a pandemic, but they are by no means at risk of losing money.

Pretty sure BNB is invested in PFE, which seemed like a good idea. If shareholders arent rewarded the company isnt a success. Thsts how it works. HTH.  

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I have the solution.

The vaccine companies simply need to active the microchip in each dose to allow the monitoring of all of our actions. The vaccine companies can sell the acquired data in lieu of charging for the vaccine.

Everybody wins! 

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44 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Pretty sure BNB is invested in PFE, which seemed like a good idea. If shareholders arent rewarded the company isnt a success. Thsts how it works. HTH.  

I’m invested in PFE too.  It’s going to make a ton of money, and already got 2 bn guaranteed.  If they piss that away they’re a badly run company.   sorry, bud.  I’d say nice try, but it really wasn’t.

 

 

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8 hours ago, tonydead said:
10 hours ago, the moops said:

I'm sorry but we are ####ed as a people if our response to trying to increase supply of vaccines for the rest of the world is "well what about the profits for the next company that develops the next vaccine for the next pandemic"

You dont understand the world in which you live. 

I understand it. I just refuse to believe it is the best it can be.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, the moops said:

I'm sorry but we are ####ed as a people if our response to trying to increase supply of vaccines for the rest of the world is "well what about the profits for the next company that develops the next vaccine for the next pandemic"

How is giving away IP an answer to the supply problem?

Pfizer submitted the vaccine to India for approval months ago and they still have not approved it or ordered any. That's not a supply issue. At best that is a terrible politics issue. I mean, they are burning bodies in the streets and they haven't approved mRNA vaccines yet? A cynic might say there is some other reason they haven't approved the vaccines yet, but want the IP.

Giving away IP isn't going to solve the lipid nanoparticle shortage. Creating mRNA vaccines is a highly technical and specialized process, India isn't going to just get a recipe and magically start cranking out supply. This isn't like making a generic pill. They will have to first build out specialized infrastructure to make it, hire or train specialized workers and then compete globally for all the ingredients that are in short supply. Compete to buy up the vials and specialized needles. Those are the current bottlenecks constraining supply.

The larger concern is "what's next" IMO. 

China and Russia have been hacking these mRNA companies to steal IP and now Biden just wants to give it away? If COVID wasn't a bio weapon, I guarantee the devastation it caused got enemy states to ramp up bio weapon programs. Seems like protecting IP of these companies and creating partners with them would be better than going after them.

Regarding India, just spitballing here; how about they first approve the vaccine. Then seek help from other nations in building labs capable of producing mRNA vaccines and training staff. License the IP and bring aboard the innovators to help with the process. I mean, we're talking about a $20-$30 product that looks to be highly effective in preventing serious illness. I don't see any "Pharma bro" price gouging going on here. In fact, I believe Pfizer already indicated it would sell for cost to poorer nations. Having a hard time figuring out what giving away IP actually solves here other than making $ for Indian companies, which is completely &^%$ed if that is the reason.

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2 minutes ago, ericttspikes said:

How is giving away IP an answer to the supply problem?

Pfizer submitted the vaccine to India for approval months ago and they still have not approved it or ordered any. That's not a supply issue. A best that is a terrible politics issue. I mean, they are burning bodies in the streets and they haven't approved mRNA vaccines yet? A cynic might say there is some other reason they haven't approved the vaccines yet want the IP.

Giving away IP isn't going to solve the lipid nanoparticle shortage. Creating mRNA is a highly technical and specialized process, India isn't going to just get a recipe and magically start cranking out supply. This isn't like making a generic pill. They will have to first build out specialized infrastructure to make it, hire or train specialized workers and then compete globally for all the ingredients that are in short supply. Compete to buy up the vials and specialized needles. Those are the current bottlenecks constraining supply.

The larger concern is "what's next" IMO. 

China and Russia have been hacking these mRNA companies to steal IP and now Biden just want to give it away? If COVID wasn't a bio weapon, I guarantee the devastation it caused got enemy states to ramp up bio weapon programs. Seems like protecting IP of these companies and creating partners with them would be better than going after them.

Regarding India, just spitballing here; how about they first approve the vaccine. Then seek help from other nations in building labs capable of producing mRNA vaccines and training staff. License the IP and bring aboard the innovators to help with the process. I mean, we're talking about a $20-$30 product that looks to be highly effective in preventing serious illness. I don't see any "Pharma bro" price gouging going on here. In fact, I believe Pfizer already indicated it would sell for cost to poorer nations. Having a hard time figuring out what giving away IP actually solves here other than making $ for Indian companies, which is completely &^%$ed if that is the reason.

 

 

 

 

 

Seems highly likely that India simply wants companies from India to make money on this.   That's it.   Pure nationalism.   In a pandemic.   Really messed up.

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7 hours ago, -fish- said:

I’m invested in PFE too.  It’s going to make a ton of money, and already got 2 bn guaranteed.  If they piss that away they’re a badly run company.   sorry, bud.  I’d say nice try, but it really wasn’t.

 

 

:lmao:. Sorry. Carry on rooting for a company you are invested in to be compensated less. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Seems highly likely that India simply wants companies from India to make money on this.   That's it.   Pure nationalism.   In a pandemic.   Really messed up.

They couldn't find the time in over 2 months to approve the mRNA vaccines, yet rushed out their homegrown "Covaxin".

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I'm all for the US sending vaccine doses to India and other countries.  This would be a great way to buy (literally) lots of international good will.  No objection whatsoever to spending money on this endeavor.  

Punishing the companies that produced super-effective vaccines using new technology in record time seems like arguably the single worst policy decision we could possibly make.  Okay, "nuke the world" would be worse, but this is probably the worst policy call that a well-intentioned person might make while thinking that they're doing the right thing.

Probably there won't be another pandemic like this in our lifetimes and it won't really matter one way or the other.  But if there is another pandemic, we'll be glad that we preserved our pharmaceutical infrastructure.  Considering the cost of covid-19 between lives lost, businesses shuttered, quality of life reduced, etc. these vaccines are very nearly priceless and we should incentivize accordingly.  

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1 minute ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I'm all for the US sending vaccine doses to India and other countries.  This would be a great way to buy (literally) lots of international good will.  No objection whatsoever to spending money on this endeavor.  

Punishing the companies that produced super-effective vaccines using new technology in record time seems like arguably the single worst policy decision we could possibly make.  Okay, "nuke the world" would be worse, but this is probably the worst policy call that a well-intentioned person might make while thinking that they're doing the right thing.

Probably there won't be another pandemic like this in our lifetimes and it won't really matter one way or the other.  But if there is another pandemic, we'll be glad that we preserved our pharmaceutical infrastructure.  Considering the cost of covid-19 between lives lost, businesses shuttered, quality of life reduced, etc. these vaccines are very nearly priceless and we should incentivize accordingly.  

Amen.   But we already know that Democrats -- broad brush statement -- struggle with second-order effects.  This situation is one of many examples.

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23 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Punishing the companies that produced super-effective vaccines using new technology in record time seems like arguably the single worst policy decision we could possibly make. 

I am completely out of the loop here - how/why are companies being punished here?

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of course, pro-vaxxers will argue the source, or the numbers, etc etc ..... 

 

 

Every flu season, we give influenza shots to more than 160 million Americans. Every year, a relatively small number of people seem to die after getting those shots. To be precise, in 2019, that number was 203 people. The year before, it was 119. In 2017, a total of 85 people died from the flu shot

Every death is tragic, but big picture, we don’t consider those numbers disqualifying. We keep giving flu shots, and very few people complain about it. So the question is how do those numbers compare to the death rate from the coronavirus vaccines now being distributed across the country? That’s worth knowing. 

We checked today. Here’s the answer, which comes from the same set of government numbers that we just listed: Between late December of 2020, and last month, a total of 3,362 people apparently died after getting the COVID vaccines in the United States. Three thousand, three hundred and sixty-two — that’s an average of 30 people every day. So, what does that add up to? By the way, that reporting period ended on April 23. We don’t have numbers past that, we’re not quite up to date. But we can assume that another 360 people have died in the 12 days since. That is a total of 3,722 deaths. Almost four thousand people died after getting the COVID vaccines. The actual number is almost certainly much higher than that — perhaps vastly higher.  

 

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-how-many-americans-have-died-after-taking-the-covid-vaccine

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22 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

of course, pro-vaxxers will argue the source, or the numbers, etc etc ..... 

 

 

Every flu season, we give influenza shots to more than 160 million Americans. Every year, a relatively small number of people seem to die after getting those shots. To be precise, in 2019, that number was 203 people. The year before, it was 119. In 2017, a total of 85 people died from the flu shot

Every death is tragic, but big picture, we don’t consider those numbers disqualifying. We keep giving flu shots, and very few people complain about it. So the question is how do those numbers compare to the death rate from the coronavirus vaccines now being distributed across the country? That’s worth knowing. 

We checked today. Here’s the answer, which comes from the same set of government numbers that we just listed: Between late December of 2020, and last month, a total of 3,362 people apparently died after getting the COVID vaccines in the United States. Three thousand, three hundred and sixty-two — that’s an average of 30 people every day. So, what does that add up to? By the way, that reporting period ended on April 23. We don’t have numbers past that, we’re not quite up to date. But we can assume that another 360 people have died in the 12 days since. That is a total of 3,722 deaths. Almost four thousand people died after getting the COVID vaccines. The actual number is almost certainly much higher than that — perhaps vastly higher.  

 

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-how-many-americans-have-died-after-taking-the-covid-vaccine

Could always move to India. Not much vaccinations going on there.

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23 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

of course, pro-vaxxers will argue the source, or the numbers, etc etc ..... 

 

 

Every flu season, we give influenza shots to more than 160 million Americans. Every year, a relatively small number of people seem to die after getting those shots. To be precise, in 2019, that number was 203 people. The year before, it was 119. In 2017, a total of 85 people died from the flu shot

Every death is tragic, but big picture, we don’t consider those numbers disqualifying. We keep giving flu shots, and very few people complain about it. So the question is how do those numbers compare to the death rate from the coronavirus vaccines now being distributed across the country? That’s worth knowing. 

We checked today. Here’s the answer, which comes from the same set of government numbers that we just listed: Between late December of 2020, and last month, a total of 3,362 people apparently died after getting the COVID vaccines in the United States. Three thousand, three hundred and sixty-two — that’s an average of 30 people every day. So, what does that add up to? By the way, that reporting period ended on April 23. We don’t have numbers past that, we’re not quite up to date. But we can assume that another 360 people have died in the 12 days since. That is a total of 3,722 deaths. Almost four thousand people died after getting the COVID vaccines. The actual number is almost certainly much higher than that — perhaps vastly higher.  

 

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-how-many-americans-have-died-after-taking-the-covid-vaccine

Yeah I havent heard these #s anywhere. You would think this would be all over the news if true.

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30 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

of course, pro-vaxxers will argue the source, or the numbers, etc etc ..... 

 

 

Every flu season, we give influenza shots to more than 160 million Americans. Every year, a relatively small number of people seem to die after getting those shots. To be precise, in 2019, that number was 203 people. The year before, it was 119. In 2017, a total of 85 people died from the flu shot

Every death is tragic, but big picture, we don’t consider those numbers disqualifying. We keep giving flu shots, and very few people complain about it. So the question is how do those numbers compare to the death rate from the coronavirus vaccines now being distributed across the country? That’s worth knowing. 

We checked today. Here’s the answer, which comes from the same set of government numbers that we just listed: Between late December of 2020, and last month, a total of 3,362 people apparently died after getting the COVID vaccines in the United States. Three thousand, three hundred and sixty-two — that’s an average of 30 people every day. So, what does that add up to? By the way, that reporting period ended on April 23. We don’t have numbers past that, we’re not quite up to date. But we can assume that another 360 people have died in the 12 days since. That is a total of 3,722 deaths. Almost four thousand people died after getting the COVID vaccines. The actual number is almost certainly much higher than that — perhaps vastly higher.  

 

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-how-many-americans-have-died-after-taking-the-covid-vaccine

peddling garbage as usual - https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/05/05/tucker-carlson-says-vaccine-related-deaths-may-be-abnormally-high---but-vaccines-havent-been-linked-to-deaths/?sh=34ac0ef1bd35

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38 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

of course, pro-vaxxers will argue the source, or the numbers, etc etc ..... 

 

 

Every flu season, we give influenza shots to more than 160 million Americans. Every year, a relatively small number of people seem to die after getting those shots. To be precise, in 2019, that number was 203 people. The year before, it was 119. In 2017, a total of 85 people died from the flu shot

Every death is tragic, but big picture, we don’t consider those numbers disqualifying. We keep giving flu shots, and very few people complain about it. So the question is how do those numbers compare to the death rate from the coronavirus vaccines now being distributed across the country? That’s worth knowing. 

We checked today. Here’s the answer, which comes from the same set of government numbers that we just listed: Between late December of 2020, and last month, a total of 3,362 people apparently died after getting the COVID vaccines in the United States. Three thousand, three hundred and sixty-two — that’s an average of 30 people every day. So, what does that add up to? By the way, that reporting period ended on April 23. We don’t have numbers past that, we’re not quite up to date. But we can assume that another 360 people have died in the 12 days since. That is a total of 3,722 deaths. Almost four thousand people died after getting the COVID vaccines. The actual number is almost certainly much higher than that — perhaps vastly higher.  

 

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-how-many-americans-have-died-after-taking-the-covid-vaccine

This is just painful to witness on so many levels.  But I'm not taking the bait today!!  

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Just now, Alex P Keaton said:

The govt wants to take their intellectual property (e.g., vaccine formula) and give it away for free.

Haven't they been paid for their work?  I assume that someone has gotten paid, if the US has purchased 300M doses.

 

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Just now, Alex P Keaton said:

The govt wants to take their intellectual property (e.g., vaccine formula) and give it away for free.

Is part of the argument that we wouldn’t have the vaccines at all if drug companies had known that this might happen?  Because that’s really the only argument that would resonate with me and I haven’t really seen a compelling case for it.

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