Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Government Response To The Coronavirus


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 29.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

This is going to be a one off post because I don't want to get trolled or banned but if I were American, the context of Canada would be the biggest damning fact of how things have been handled in the

Australia has had months of little to no community spread and even then it was confined to one state. By and large Australians are running around doing the right thing, sport was and is still hap

I am confident we are going to hit >750K deaths.  I think it might be a million.  I don't post a ton but I'm an ER doc in a big city. This is by far the worse I've seen since the pandemic star

13 minutes ago, -fish- said:

Hey stalker...first, how about you stop following me from topic to topic making useless posts?   
You posted this nonsense: " Unvaccinated people pose no threat to vaccinated people. "  It's categorically false.   

Please put me on ignore since you don't actually read my posts anyway.

The post I replied to was you quoting me. You want me to put you on ignore so you can quote me and go unnoticed? :lol:

- actually kind of smart on your part if your goal is to spread disinformation and put words in people mouths.

17 hours ago, -fish- said:

can you post proof that they haven't?  

the studies show a decreased viral load.  that should decrease transmission.  i have yet to see any study or any reputable source say it eliminates any possibility of transmission,  or makes tonydead's ridiculous claim that vaccinated people infected with the virus dont carry the virus.  that's beyond nonsense.

Still waiting for a link to this bogus claim.  Joe's rules.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rockaction said:

Here's something to consider.

Jesse Walker

@notjessewalker

"What's striking to me isn't that the tentative consensus of the moment changed. It's that so many people felt the need to express the tentative consensus of the moment in a tone of smug certainty."

This is in response to the media, who in the early days of the pandemic, referred to "sceintific consensus" and "experts" to guide the way. Just thought about this thread, medical studies, and figured this belonged here for guys like @Terminalxylemto read.

Not sure why you feel a need to be insulting. I assure you I have the critical thinking skills to understand the difference between scientific evidence and "expert" opinion.

  • Laughing 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, John123 said:

Inside is different than "inside in a public place." 

Ok. Can we please allow smoking inside public places again. Or just airplanes at least

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, tonydead said:

I don't know when it went from flattening the curve to saving every life at all costs.  But it did and it's really unfortunate.  Not only have the curves flattened - everything is way down - and the vaccine is available to everyone that wants it.  We should open up fully without restrictions now.  Full Stop.

I almost never agree with Tony on anything.  Here I agree 100%, largely due to the bolded.  Its time for the collective we to stop adjusting for the woefully ignorant or unwilling at this point. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

Not sure why you feel a need to be insulting. I assure you I have the critical thinking skills to understand the difference between scientific evidence and "expert" opinion.

I don't think I was insulting at all. Your position about the coronavirus has largely been based on expert recommendations that are focused on the available science and scientific studies. I figured you were the one constantly leading the charge about what is "appropriate" behavior given the scientific evidence and what isn't.

"Public health measures," by their very nature, are about what individuals are allowed to legally do because of enacted public health policy. That these measures are often informed by "experts" and "scientific consensus" that proves to be wrong many times is something to debate. I figure since your default position in this thread is to follow those guidelines, you might be tagged.

That is all.

Edited by rockaction
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

"Unvaccinated people pose no threat to vaccinated people."

I'll stand by that statement.  Otherwise why the hell did I get the vaccine!!!!11!

Oh yes, no vaccine is 100% effective.  Well the break through percentage is currently 0.008%.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, tonydead said:

The post I replied to was you quoting me. You want me to put you on ignore so you can quote me and go unnoticed? :lol:

- actually kind of smart on your part if your goal is to spread disinformation and put words in people mouths.

Still waiting for a link to this bogus claim.  Joe's rules.  

posted it yesterday.   you didn't read it.   sorry, bud.  another swing, another miss.

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, rockaction said:

That these measures are often informed by "experts" and "scientific consensus" that proves to be wrong many times is something to debate.

One person's "proven wrong many times" is another's "re-evaluates based on new information".

How else are people supposed to make decisions if not based on the best available information at the time? No one knew every single angle of COVID back in March 2020, but there was still meaningful advice given from authority based on what was understood at the time about other coronaviruses, general spread of viruses, etc. That guidance wasn't given in bad faith and wasn't given smugly from original sources IMHO (now, people carrying the message downstream -- especially laypersons -- could be quite self-righteous and strident about it, yeah).

Why is it a problem that scientific consensus can change based on new information, replication of promising studies, and so forth? Why do people think that "science" gets one lone crack at solving a problem, and that's it? "Get all the advice and guidance correct up front, first time, or we can never trust you forevermore!"

Were scientists working on the pandemic just supposed to sit on their hands and suggest "We're still learning and collecting information -- meanwhile, people should just do whatever they want." That would've gone on for years.

Much respect for your many thoughtful takes from the right side of the aisle, but I think you're missing the mark widely here.

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I don't think I was insulting at all. Your position about the coronavirus has largely been based on expert recommendations that are focused on the available science and scientific studies. I figured you were the one constantly leading the charge about what is "appropriate" behavior given the scientific evidence and what isn't.

"Public health measures," by their very nature, are about what individuals are allowed to legally do because of enacted public health policy. That these measures are often informed by "experts" and "scientific consensus" that proves to be wrong many times is something to debate. I figure since your default position in this thread is to follow those guidelines, you might be tagged.

That is all.

You should reread my posts then. While I'm certainly an advocate for evidenced-based decision making, I've repeatedly editorialized suspicion with the quality of the science involved in public health and infection control. I'm not a mindless, appeal to authority medbot, oblivious to the politics and biases cooked into expert guidelines.

On the other hand, I'm not a fan of people who rely upon anecdote and "common sense" drivel to dismiss recommendations provided by those far more informed on these topics. No one is above scrutiny, but there's been plenty of arrogance displayed by people in these threads after forming an opinion based on little more than a few tweets.

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, tonydead said:

"Unvaccinated people pose no threat to vaccinated people."

I'll stand by that statement.  Otherwise why the hell did I get the vaccine!!!!11!

Well ... there's threats and then there's threats.

I agree with you that now that I'm vaccinated, maskless folks at the store or in the office aren't really putting me in any especial danger.

Thing is ... the "I" part of the equation is not all that must be considered. There's still a flank left undefended.

Now, I'm not big on the idea that some SARS-CoV-2 variant is going to sprout up and take us all out in short order. However: it's in the realm of the possible that a variant can turn into COVID 2 and have to be fought hard all over again. And that's not an "I" issue, that's an "us" issue. Society-wide. There's a point where we have to stop making COVID decisions at the individual level and start making them to benefit all of society.

A large-ish pool of unvaccinated people give the COVID virus a lot of safe harbor. More chances to multiply, more chances to mutate. Yeah, on the roulette wheel of viral interactions with humanity, "mutate into a far worse variant" is probably just the 00 wedge or something. Maybe less than that. But still enough of a risk, IMHO, to countenance and take seriously.

So, that's one way unvaccinated people can threaten vaccinated people: they can collectively incubate a heinous variant and make us have to start all over again the mitigation measures. Tearing down all the progress made since the vaccination rollout. Sure, they can roll out new vaccines and all ... but come on. How many times do we have to go through this? Do the needful for a short time longer, and let's get this kay-rap past us.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/11/2021 at 11:36 AM, -fish- said:

so can he spread it? 

If he has sufficient viral burden, he can spread it. In theory, being vaccinated should minimize this possibility, but the threshold for test positivity is low, likely far lower than the amount required for effective transmission. Among other things, the presence of symptoms would increase the likelihood he can spread it.
 

This assumes he has a competent immune system, and didn’t acquire a vaccine resistant mutant.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dkp993 said:

I almost never agree with Tony on anything.  Here I agree 100%, largely due to the bolded.  Its time for the collective we to stop adjusting for the woefully ignorant or unwilling at this point. 

Except for the reality that vaccine hesitancy will keep us from herd immunity and make it more likely for variants to mutate and spread. :shrug:

Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, -fish- said:

posted it yesterday.   you didn't read it.   sorry, bud.  another swing, another miss.

It's demonstrably false.  Not only does it not exist, you can't link to it either. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Desert_Power said:

Except for the reality that vaccine hesitancy will keep us from herd immunity and make it more likely for variants to mutate and spread. :shrug:

That's not a given for several reasons:

1 - You don't know if enough are going to get vaccinated to reach heard immunity.

2 - Heard immunity can happen by healthy people actually contracting the virus developing antibodies naturally.

3 - The vaccine has been very robust against all variants to date.

4 - The masks and restrictions won't stop that anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here in Ohio the governor announced today that health mandates are ending June 2. To give incentive to get vaccinated they are giving away 5 - 4 year scholorships to any of our state colleges to kids 12 - 17 who have had at least one shot by the drawing. For adults who have had at least one shot they will do a drawing once a week for 5 weeks giving away 1 million dollars to each winner. 

https://fox8.com/news/covid-19-vaccine-drawings-ohio-offering-free-4-year-college-tuition-for-kids-1-million-to-adults/

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Desert_Power said:

Except for the reality that vaccine hesitancy will keep us from herd immunity and make it more likely for variants to mutate and spread. :shrug:

Totally agree, posted something very similar a week or so ago.  Its a conundrum for sure.  But us continuing to wear masks because they are "vaccine hesitant" is not the answer (though admittedly I don't have good one either as I'm not a forced vaccine guy).  We should not have to adjust our lives ad nauseum and in perpetuity because someone is "hesitant".  As some point that hesitancy becomes woeful ignorance or pure defiance.  

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Well ... there's threats and then there's threats.

I agree with you that now that I'm vaccinated, maskless folks at the store or in the office aren't really putting me in any especial danger.

Thing is ... the "I" part of the equation is not all that must be considered. There's still a flank left undefended.

Now, I'm not big on the idea that some SARS-CoV-2 variant is going to sprout up and take us all out in short order. However: it's in the realm of the possible that a variant can turn into COVID 2 and have to be fought hard all over again. And that's not an "I" issue, that's an "us" issue. Society-wide. There's a point where we have to stop making COVID decisions at the individual level and start making them to benefit all of society.

A large-ish pool of unvaccinated people give the COVID virus a lot of safe harbor. More chances to multiply, more chances to mutate. Yeah, on the roulette wheel of viral interactions with humanity, "mutate into a far worse variant" is probably just the 00 wedge or something. Maybe less than that. But still enough of a risk, IMHO, to countenance and take seriously.

So, that's one way unvaccinated people can threaten vaccinated people: they can collectively incubate a heinous variant and make us have to start all over again the mitigation measures. Tearing down all the progress made since the vaccination rollout. Sure, they can roll out new vaccines and all ... but come on. How many times do we have to go through this? Do the needful for a short time longer, and let's get this kay-rap past us.

See three posts above.  People putting a lot of weight on VARRIENTS.

We can go back and debate whether we should have kept all the restrictions in place once we knew that this virus only harmed the most vulnerable if you want because we'd probably already be at heard immunity if we hadn't.  The truth is the VARRIENT scenario is about just as likely as another virus finding it's way out of the lab in Wuhan.  Let's not go around acting like scared children held up in our houses for the rest of our lives.  

Edited by tonydead
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Totally agree, posted something very similar a week or so ago.  Its a conundrum for sure.  But us continuing to wear masks because they are "vaccine hesitant" is not the answer (though admittedly I don't have good one either as I'm not a forced vaccine guy).  We should not have to adjust our lives ad nauseum and in perpetuity because someone is "hesitant".  As some point that hesitancy becomes woeful ignorance or pure defiance.  

I like the lottery idea above.  Financial incentives should have always been part of this.  People respond to money.  Get your shot get a $100 best buy gift card

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, killface said:

I like the lottery idea above.  Financial incentives should have always been part of this.  People respond to money.  Get your shot get a $100 best buy gift card

Maybe, just hate that that is the world we live in.  But as my grandpa use to say "common sense is anything but common"

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, dkp993 said:

Maybe, just hate that that is the world we live in.  But as my grandpa use to say "common sense is anything but common"

Not anymore.  I'm not even sure money would make that much of a dent for the 30% of the country that thinks the vaccine implants 5G in your head while making you a gay Biden voter

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, killface said:

I like the lottery idea above.  Financial incentives should have always been part of this.  People respond to money.  Get your shot get a $100 best buy gift card

Right.  We gave away a lot of money to people without requiring them to do anything.

A side - scoping out vaccine locations near bars and restaurants to take full advantage of the free Uber ride offer. :thumbup:

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Doug B said:

One person's "proven wrong many times" is another's "re-evaluates based on new information".

How else are people supposed to make decisions if not based on the best available information at the time? No one knew every single angle of COVID back in March 2020, but there was still meaningful advice given from authority based on what was understood at the time about other coronaviruses, general spread of viruses, etc. That guidance wasn't given in bad faith and wasn't given smugly from original sources IMHO (now, people carrying the message downstream -- especially laypersons -- could be quite self-righteous and strident about it, yeah).

Why is it a problem that scientific consensus can change based on new information, replication of promising studies, and so forth? Why do people think that "science" gets one lone crack at solving a problem, and that's it? "Get all the advice and guidance correct up front, first time, or we can never trust you forevermore!"

Were scientists working on the pandemic just supposed to sit on their hands and suggest "We're still learning and collecting information -- meanwhile, people should just do whatever they want." That would've gone on for years.

Much respect for your many thoughtful takes from the right side of the aisle, but I think you're missing the mark widely here.

It's the smugness to which I was referring. You've taken one part out of context and completely missed the point.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Terminalxylem said:

 drivel

 

The point was about smugness. You certainly have refuted that with your reply, haven't you?

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, top dog said:

Here in Ohio the governor announced today that health mandates are ending June 2. To give incentive to get vaccinated they are giving away 5 - 4 year scholorships to any of our state colleges to kids 12 - 17 who have had at least one shot by the drawing. For adults who have had at least one shot they will do a drawing once a week for 5 weeks giving away 1 million dollars to each winner. 

https://fox8.com/news/covid-19-vaccine-drawings-ohio-offering-free-4-year-college-tuition-for-kids-1-million-to-adults/

First off - great idea by Ohio governor there.  Second, I have a 15 year old - can I actually sign him up for the Pfizer vaccine as of now?  I heard they were going to allow it, but hadn't heard I could actually sign him up.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Sand said:

First off - great idea by Ohio governor there.  Second, I have a 15 year old - can I actually sign him up for the Pfizer vaccine as of now?  I heard they were going to allow it, but hadn't heard I could actually sign him up.

State by state basis it appears. It's been authorized. CDC was to finalize today. My 15 year old has an appointment Saturday

Edited by belljr
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, rockaction said:

The point was about smugness. You certainly have refuted that with your reply, haven't you?

I don’t really want to get in the middle of this disagreement (so why am I? Heh), but isn’t he a doctor? Maybe what you’re seeing as smugness is actually expertise? 

  • Thinking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Terminalxylem said:

You should reread my posts then. While I'm certainly an advocate for evidenced-based decision making, I've repeatedly editorialized suspicion with the quality of the science involved in public health and infection control. I'm not a mindless, appeal to authority medbot, oblivious to the politics and biases cooked into expert guidelines.

On the other hand, I'm not a fan of people who rely upon anecdote and "common sense" drivel to dismiss recommendations provided by those far more informed on these topics. No one is above scrutiny, but there's been plenty of arrogance displayed by people in these threads after forming an opinion based on little more than a few tweets.

This post is rich in so many ways.  Physician heal thyself.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, The Football Freak said:

I don’t really want to get in the middle of this disagreement (so why am I? Heh), but isn’t he a doctor? Maybe what you’re seeing as smugness is actually expertise? 

It can be both.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's hard to find a good doctor.  People just assuming they all know more than they do amazes me. I mean just take a look at Fauci and how people have propped up that guy. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sand said:

First off - great idea by Ohio governor there.  Second, I have a 15 year old - can I actually sign him up for the Pfizer vaccine as of now?  I heard they were going to allow it, but hadn't heard I could actually sign him up.

I think he said Thursday (tomorrow) they are eligible here. Based on when all the other prioriry groups came online, you will have to wait until the day of to sign up.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, rockaction said:

The point was about smugness. You certainly have refuted that with your reply, haven't you?

As usual, you fail to acknowledge your insulting tone, then compound it by partaking in the exact behavior you condemn. 

And there is nothing smug about refusing to accept “common sense” as a scientific standard. 

  • Laughing 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, tonydead said:

It's hard to find a good doctor.  People just assuming they all know more than they do amazes me. I mean just take a look at Fauci and how people have propped up that guy. 

Most people wouldnt even care about fauci if the guy wasnt propped up. He isnt very good at handling a pandemic, but nobody from any of the three letter abbreviations has handled it wellnt

But fauci became some kind of folk hero. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Sand said:

First off - great idea by Ohio governor there.  Second, I have a 15 year old - can I actually sign him up for the Pfizer vaccine as of now?  I heard they were going to allow it, but hadn't heard I could actually sign him up.

I’m in Illinois, not Ohio.  My kids (both 12 years old) are signed up for this Saturday. 
 

The Ohio governor’s idea is genius.  Would love to see more states do this.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, top dog said:

Here in Ohio the governor announced today that health mandates are ending June 2. To give incentive to get vaccinated they are giving away 5 - 4 year scholorships to any of our state colleges to kids 12 - 17 who have had at least one shot by the drawing. For adults who have had at least one shot they will do a drawing once a week for 5 weeks giving away 1 million dollars to each winner. 

https://fox8.com/news/covid-19-vaccine-drawings-ohio-offering-free-4-year-college-tuition-for-kids-1-million-to-adults/

Excellent idea.  

At this point, I would also be happy with just handing out $20 bills to everybody who shows up to get vaccinated.  (I know bioethicists hate that sort of thing -- I think their objections are deeply mistaken.  And no, having an MD does not make you an expert in ethics.)

Edited by IvanKaramazov
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, ekbeats said:

This post is rich in so many ways.  Physician heal thyself.

He's right on the money. Good luck with, and thanks for, the bleach and light guys.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, John123 said:

Is someone telling you that you can't?

its banned here in Arkansas unless its a bar like scenario where everyone inside is 21 and over

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, top dog said:

Here in Ohio the governor announced today that health mandates are ending June 2. To give incentive to get vaccinated they are giving away 5 - 4 year scholorships to any of our state colleges to kids 12 - 17 who have had at least one shot by the drawing. For adults who have had at least one shot they will do a drawing once a week for 5 weeks giving away 1 million dollars to each winner. 

https://fox8.com/news/covid-19-vaccine-drawings-ohio-offering-free-4-year-college-tuition-for-kids-1-million-to-adults/

Will be very curious to see the trend in vax in Ohio after thisogram pr. Has to make a measurable difference. Great idea.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We covered this pretty close in the Florida Politics thread, but this woman, while completely off the reservation, wasn't wrong.  We had months and months of local reports from providers asking why the numbers they were giving the state weren't making it into the dashboard correctly.  It was happening every single week from June through Jan/Feb 2021.  It was a regular segment on our local news channel.  That said, the reports have dropped off since late Feb/March.  They haven't had one since then so maybe they are finally reporting to us the data given them by the providers.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, The Commish said:

We covered this pretty close in the Florida Politics thread, but this woman, while completely off the reservation, wasn't wrong.  We had months and months of local reports from providers asking why the numbers they were giving the state weren't making it into the dashboard correctly.  It was happening every single week from June through Jan/Feb 2021.  It was a regular segment on our local news channel.  That said, the reports have dropped off since late Feb/March.  They haven't had one since then so maybe they are finally reporting to us the data given them by the providers.  

According to the article, she was absolutely wrong. And I've not seen a single reputable source siding with her. If you have some, I'd love to see them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Battersbox said:

According to the article, she was absolutely wrong. And I've not seen a single reputable source siding with her. If you have some, I'd love to see them.

I thought this person had been completely discredited a year or so ago.  I had no idea that she was still getting media attention all this time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...