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Government Response To The Coronavirus


James Daulton

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1 hour ago, tonydead said:

I hope a lot of people wake up to this BS and remember it next time.  

Props to all the outlets that provided the data, not disinformation from clowns like Fuaci, that let us figure it out for ourselves.  Weeks ahead of this moron getting his talking points.  

I don’t want you figuring out public health crises for yourselves. I want you to follow the CDC’s guidance. 

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56 minutes ago, ekbeats said:

He handled this crisis terribly from start to finish.  The guy prepared for this pandemic his whole life, and when it came he completely screwed the pooch by telling people not to wear masks.  How many people did that kill?  It was obvious to anyone with a brain that this was highly contagious just based on China’s reaction and all the people dying in Italy.  He blew it.  Bigtime.

The reason he discouraged masks in the first place was because he and other public health experts reasonably feared a run on N-95 masks. But very shortly thereafter, when cheaper common masks became available, Fauci publicly advocated for their use. If Trump hadn’t disagreed with his advice, if a lot more regular folks had done as he asked we could have saved many more lives. 
 

I can’t think of a single major error that Fauci made during this crisis, except perhaps that he should have resigned when Trump attempted to play politics and started spouting dangerous ignorance. 

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55 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Read the last 3 pages where we outlined all the reasons why vaccinated people didnt have to wear masks. Not coincidence we figured it out a bit quicker than the CDC.

Fauci is an actor playing a role. He flopped a 180 mask recommendation live on TV in a matter of days. If you cant see that now you're brainwashed and blind. 

Scott Gottlieb has been way ahead of them in outlining what is likely to occur next and what phase we are in pretty much the whole way.  

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If Joe and the moderators want to wonder why this forum is going to crap, just look at the last 48 hours of this thread for your answer.  The anti-science and anti-expert posters have destroyed it. 

Experts - meaning doctors actually caring for these patients in the hospital - who also read the literature on a daily basis - are denigrated when they post - and are also told that experts like Fauci are clowns for some sort of perceived political points.   All it is one big gotcha thread for whatever error they perceive or whatever talking point Tucker Carlson said on Fox last night.

I don't get the anti-expert angle.  I had a plumber out today to fix something.  I don't know #### about plumbing.  I don't stand there and argue with him and argue about plumbing "facts" I read on twitter.   Yet in this forum, and in real life, there are constantly anti-science MAGA-hats telling me I have no idea what I am talking about.   Even at work. It's bizarre.

 

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13 minutes ago, timschochet said:

The reason he discouraged masks in the first place was because he and other public health experts reasonably feared a run on N-95 masks. But very shortly thereafter, when cheaper common masks became available, Fauci publicly advocated for their use. If Trump hadn’t disagreed with his advice, if a lot more regular folks had done as he asked we could have saved many more lives. 
 

I can’t think of a single major error that Fauci made during this crisis, except perhaps that he should have resigned when Trump attempted to play politics and started spouting dangerous ignorance. 

I've been making this point for over a year and these posters don't care.     Quit wasting your time.

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21 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I don’t want you figuring out public health crises for yourselves. I want you to follow the CDC’s guidance. 

Moderna executive maybe. CDC no way. I work with government agencies all day long. Spend most of my time helping them understand and do their job. There isn’t a government agency alive that is the leader of their field of expertise. 
 

Private Sector Expert > Tonydead > CDC/Fauci 

If the evidence of the past 5 pages in this thread aren’t evidence enough you are blind. 

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17 minutes ago, timschochet said:

The reason he discouraged masks in the first place was because he and other public health experts reasonably feared a run on N-95 masks. But very shortly thereafter, when cheaper common masks became available, Fauci publicly advocated for their use.

So he lied.  And that’s what makes him an effective leader?  Do I have that right?

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5 minutes ago, growlers said:

If Joe and the moderators want to wonder why this forum is going to crap, just look at the last 48 hours of this thread for your answer.  The anti-science and anti-expert posters have destroyed it. 

Experts - meaning doctors actually caring for these patients in the hospital - who also read the literature on a daily basis - are denigrated when they post - and are also told that experts like Fauci are clowns for some sort of perceived political points.   All it is one big gotcha thread for whatever error they perceive or whatever talking point Tucker Carlson said on Fox last night.

I don't get the anti-expert angle.  I had a plumber out today to fix something.  I don't know #### about plumbing.  I don't stand there and argue with him and argue about plumbing "facts" I read on twitter.   Yet in this forum, and in real life, there are constantly anti-science MAGA-hats telling me I have no idea what I am talking about.   Even at work. It's bizarre.

 

Sorry we figured out vaccinated people don’t need to wear masks before the CDC announced it. That is fact. On the very pages you referenced. 
 

And I bet a lot of us can do our own plumbing.  I can and do. Plumbing isn’t rocket science. 

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16 minutes ago, growlers said:

If Joe and the moderators want to wonder why this forum is going to crap, just look at the last 48 hours of this thread for your answer.  The anti-science and anti-expert posters have destroyed it. 

Experts - meaning doctors actually caring for these patients in the hospital - who also read the literature on a daily basis - are denigrated when they post - and are also told that experts like Fauci are clowns for some sort of perceived political points.   All it is one big gotcha thread for whatever error they perceive or whatever talking point Tucker Carlson said on Fox last night.

I don't get the anti-expert angle.  I had a plumber out today to fix something.  I don't know #### about plumbing.  I don't stand there and argue with him and argue about plumbing "facts" I read on twitter.   Yet in this forum, and in real life, there are constantly anti-science MAGA-hats telling me I have no idea what I am talking about.   Even at work. It's bizarre.

 

Read a CDC forum instead of this one?   Seems like you only want their propaganda

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, sho nuff said:

Thats not quite what you quoted said though.

That’s exactly what the quote said.  Fauci said “that people wear a mask”, NOT “that unvaccinated people wear a mask” or “that they wear a mask”.

Edited by ekbeats
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5 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Read a CDC forum instead of this one?   Seems like you only want their propaganda

it's amazing how the CDC was internationally renowned until Trump told 40% of you to not like them.

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18 minutes ago, growlers said:

If Joe and the moderators want to wonder why this forum is going to crap, just look at the last 48 hours of this thread for your answer.  The anti-science and anti-expert posters have destroyed it. 

Experts - meaning doctors actually caring for these patients in the hospital - who also read the literature on a daily basis - are denigrated when they post - and are also told that experts like Fauci are clowns for some sort of perceived political points.   All it is one big gotcha thread for whatever error they perceive or whatever talking point Tucker Carlson said on Fox last night.

I don't get the anti-expert angle.  I had a plumber out today to fix something.  I don't know #### about plumbing.  I don't stand there and argue with him and argue about plumbing "facts" I read on twitter.   Yet in this forum, and in real life, there are constantly anti-science MAGA-hats telling me I have no idea what I am talking about.   Even at work. It's bizarre.

 

Why don’t you report it to Joe so you don’t have to deal with alternatives opinions from “non-experts” - you know, the people who correctly researched, interpreted and cited the data and studies and were proven to be correct today.  Your esteemed MD made the ludicrous statement that masks don’t restrict oxygenation during track races, and then cited a study that clearly showed that oxygenation is in fact restricted during high intensity exercise, but still wouldn’t admit he was wrong.  He doubled down with some arrogant posts denigrating other posters and was rightfully called out for it.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this thread.  Posters challenged conventional wisdom from supposed experts, cited their work, and in the end were proven to be correct. It actually represents everything that is good about discussion forums.

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28 minutes ago, growlers said:

If Joe and the moderators want to wonder why this forum is going to crap, just look at the last 48 hours of this thread for your answer.  The anti-science and anti-expert posters have destroyed it. 

Experts - meaning doctors actually caring for these patients in the hospital - who also read the literature on a daily basis - are denigrated when they post - and are also told that experts like Fauci are clowns for some sort of perceived political points.   All it is one big gotcha thread for whatever error they perceive or whatever talking point Tucker Carlson said on Fox last night.

I don't get the anti-expert angle.  I had a plumber out today to fix something.  I don't know #### about plumbing.  I don't stand there and argue with him and argue about plumbing "facts" I read on twitter.   Yet in this forum, and in real life, there are constantly anti-science MAGA-hats telling me I have no idea what I am talking about.   Even at work. It's bizarre.

 

Please. Fauci has been wrong on so many things and you just eat it up like a pig and slop

 

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24 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Private Sector Expert > Tonydead > CDC/Fauci 

Modesty like this almost has me convinced your FBG’s Gordon Gekko.  Are you going to next regale us with stories of your hyper alpha studliness.  

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, growlers said:

enjoy your MAGA-hat circle jerk.

I'll just be at work intubating the remaining science and vaccine deniers who are 99% trump zombies.

 

40 minutes ago, growlers said:

If Joe and the moderators want to wonder why this forum is going to crap, just look at the last 48 hours of this thread for your answer.  The anti-science and anti-expert posters have destroyed it. 

 

Edited by ekbeats
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26 minutes ago, growlers said:

i don't doubt if there were a rocket science thread you would post 

tonydead > rocket scientist

enjoy your MAGA-hat circle jerk.

I'll just be at work intubating the remaining science and vaccine deniers who are 99% trump zombies.

This is an expert I'm supposed to trust 

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2 hours ago, tonydead said:

Fauci on NBC news.  

Fully on board with CDC decision. 

Says he would NOT be afraid to be around an unvaccinated person without a mask, even if they are infected.   

This is a 180 degree reversal from just 7 days ago, the last time he talked to Lester Holt he said the EXACT OPPOSITE. 

What a freaking clown.  

But he also says kids too young to be vaccinated still have to wear masks:

https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1392968392408248324

So you're supposed to see a family of four where the parents aren't wearing masks but the kids are.  And if the kids play with their friends they have to wear masks.  This is all pretty ridiculous.

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5 minutes ago, John123 said:

But he also says kids too young to be vaccinated still have to wear masks:

https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1392968392408248324

So you're supposed to see a family of four where the parents aren't wearing masks but the kids are.  And if the kids play with their friends they have to wear masks.  This is all pretty ridiculous.

Give it a week and I'm sure he'll change his mind

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3 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

While this is great news, since there is no way to prove it, I think that basically just puts an end to masks for most people.  I think the group purposely not vaccinating and who were against masks to begin with is fairly close to being an overlapping circle.  

Yeah. We're not going to come close to herd immunity either.

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42 minutes ago, growlers said:

i don't doubt if there were a rocket science thread you would post 

tonydead > rocket scientist

enjoy your MAGA-hat circle jerk.

I'll just be at work intubating the remaining science and vaccine deniers who are 99% trump zombies.

Actually. 

tonydead = rocket scientist

For my senior project I designed the body of an AMSAT satellite. It was an interesting problem because it used to be an aluminum base with 4 other satellites mounted on top of it inside the rocket. They wanted to get one more satellite in there.  It had a real problem with natural frequencies, as you can imagine, when leaving the atmosphere. Despite finite element modeling in its infantsy back then I solved the problem, primarily by telling them they had to use titanium, instead of the normal materials of the day.  

It made it into space, which was my job. The fact that it got lost in space wasn't my fault, other engineers were responsible for that. 

But I digress Dr.  What is your opinion on wearing masks?  Do you agree with the CDC and when did you come to that determination?  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, dkp993 said:

Modesty like this almost has me convinced your FBG’s Gordon Gekko.  Are you going to next regale us with stories of your hyper alpha studliness.  

I'm married to a hot wife that digs me.  I mean the exact opposite of some wives I hear about in other threads. Does that count?  

Edited by tonydead
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Desert_Power said:

Yeah. We're not going to come close to herd immunity either.

Yes we will. You think we need 70 percent or so vaccinated to reach herd immunity, because that's what we've been told.  That's not true.  Unvaccinated people will continue to spread the virus to each other, some will get sick, some will die, but those that dont die will develop antibodies naturally.   

In fact, had we not shut down and put in all these restrictions in place when we realized the virus primarily affects only the old and vulnerable.  We could have let the healthy go about life normally, contracting the virus and developing antibodies, and we would be at herd immunity already.  Probably a long time ago.  

ETA: That's why @KarmaPolice 's post about anti vaxxers not wearing masks is a good thing, if it's true. The faster they spread the vaccine to each other the sooner we get to heard immunity. Yes some people will die -- protect the old and vulnerable anti vaxxers. 

Edited by tonydead
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2 hours ago, timschochet said:

I don’t want you figuring out public health crises for yourselves. I want you to follow the CDC’s guidance. 

To be fair:

A.  If you are vaccinated, you need to wear a mask because you might can still spread the virus

B.  If you are vaccinated and exposed, you do not need to quarantine.

Those two statements don't seem to be able to mutually exist.  If I can spread the virus after vaccination, I should quarantine when exposed.  

 

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45 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Actually. 

tonydead = rocket scientist

For my senior project I designed the body of an AMSAT satellite. It was an interesting problem because it used to be an aluminum base with 4 other satellites mounted on top of it inside the rocket. They wanted to get one more satellite in there.  It had a real problem with natural frequencies, as you can imagine, when leaving the atmosphere. Despite finite element modeling in its infantsy back then I solved the problem, primarily by telling them they had to use titanium, instead of the normal materials of the day.  

It made it into space, which was my job. The fact that it got lost in space wasn't my fault, other engineers were responsible for that. 

But I digress Dr.  What is your opinion on wearing masks?  Do you agree with the CDC and when did you come to that determination?  

I know nothing about rocket science and if there was  a thread discussing the subject I wouldn't post my uninformed opinions about it as some sort of arrogant master-of-all-subjects. I also wouldn't denigrate and post that international experts in the field and other posters that were in the rocket science field were idiots.   And i certainly wouldn't inform my opinion solely or primarily based on what my favored politicians thought about rocket science. 

As to your question: my opinion on masks has evolved, you know, LIKE SCIENCE DOES.   I have read and absorbed evidence put out by experts and formed an opinion, like science does.  It has slowly become clear that vaccinated people are very unlikely to spread the virus. That scientific opinion took time and evidence to evolve.  At this point, now that the scientific community has this evidence, the only reason to for vaccinated people to wear masks is so that unvaccinated people might be forced to wear masks to both protect themselves and to encourage them to get vaccinated.  I personally don't feel that it is reasonable at this point to mandate masks for these reasons -  my "unmasking date" is based on two weeks after the date that anyone who wanted to get vaccinated could get vaccinated.  I think that it is reasonable for a public health expert to look at the situation and determine that we need  to protect the anti-vaccers and perhaps the people that haven't had the opportunity to get vaccinated so we need to keep masking for a bit longer. I don't agree with that personally, partly because I'm incredibly annoyed by the anti-vaccination crowd, but I'm willing to keep wearing masks if the public health experts determine that we need to do it.   But that is partly because I don't see wearing a mask walking into a restaurant as some sort of leftwing constitutional affront to my USA#1 liberties - and I see it as just a minor annoyance,  and I trust the experts to make these decision with far more information than I have.  Just like I would trust the contractor to determine how much rebar i need in my skyscraper instead of some guy on twitter.    But whatever- you do you.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, growlers said:

I know nothing about rocket science and if there was  a thread discussing the subject I wouldn't post my uninformed opinions about it as some sort of arrogant master-of-all-subjects. I also wouldn't denigrate and post that international experts in the field and other posters that were in the rocket science field were idiots.   And i certainly wouldn't inform my opinion solely or primarily based on what my favored politicians thought about rocket science. 

As to your question: my opinion on masks has evolved, you know, LIKE SCIENCE DOES.   I have read and absorbed evidence put out by experts and formed an opinion, like science does.  It has slowly become clear that vaccinated people are very unlikely to spread the virus. That scientific opinion took time and evidence to evolve.  At this point, now that the scientific community has this evidence, the only reason to for vaccinated people to wear masks is so that unvaccinated people might be forced to wear masks to both protect themselves and to encourage them to get vaccinated.  I personally don't feel that it is reasonable at this point to mandate masks for these reasons -  my "unmasking date" is based on two weeks after the date that anyone who wanted to get vaccinated could get vaccinated.  I think that it is reasonable for a public health expert to look at the situation and determine that we need  to protect the anti-vaccers and perhaps the people that haven't had the opportunity to get vaccinated so we need to keep masking for a bit longer. I don't agree with that personally, partly because I'm incredibly annoyed by the anti-vaccination crowd, but I'm willing to keep wearing masks if the public health experts determine that we need to do it.   But that is partly because I don't see wearing a mask walking into a restaurant as some sort of leftwing constitutional affront to my USA#1 liberties - and I see it as just a minor annoyance,  and I trust the experts to make these decision with far more information than I have.  Just like I would trust the contractor to determine how much rebar i need in my skyscraper instead of some guy on twitter.    But whatever- you do you.

 

 

Ok.  I asked because based on your vulgar posts I figured you considered yourself some sort of expert. Now I understand you just follow along like normal folk. Had you been following the science, and data (not that I expect you to, but because of your extraordinary vulgarity), you would have realized that vaccinated people did not have to wear masks some time ago. Like some of us did. 

 

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24 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Yes we will. You think we need 70 percent or so vaccinated to reach heard immunity, because that's what we've been told.  That's not true.  Unvaccinated people will continue to spread the virus to each other, some will get sick, some will die, but those that dont die will develop antibodies naturally.   

In fact, had we not shut down and put in all these restrictions in place when we realized the virus primarily affects only the old and vulnerable.  We could have let the healthy go about life normally, contracting the virus and developing antibodies, and we would be at heard immunity already.  Probably a long time ago.  

ETA: That's why @KarmaPolice 's post about anti vaxxers not wearing masks is a good thing, if it's true. The faster they spread the vaccine to each other the sooner we get to heard immunity. Yes some people will die -- protect the old and vulnerable anti vaxxers. 

this is a good example of what I am irritated about in this thread  (and life).    I personally had 3 of my patients in their 30s with minimal preexisting conditions die.  I've admitted many many patients in their 30s/40s/50s who had extended hospital stays with resulting massive physical and financial hardships as a result only of covid.   It killed three of my healthcare coworkers that I knew well and I personally cared for several dozen more.    HERD immunity, you don't even know how to spell the word but you think you are an "expert"   

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, growlers said:

enjoy your MAGA-hat circle jerk.

I'll just be at work intubating the remaining science and vaccine deniers who are 99% trump zombies.

And we really should revisit this post. A page or 2 back I mentioned how hard it is to find a good doctor. Imagine coming into this guy's ER where he thinks 99 out of 100 customers are pieces of crap, "zombies".  Got to wonder about that hippocratic oath at this point. 

Edited by tonydead
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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, growlers said:

this is a good example of what I am irritated about in this thread  (and life).    I personally had 3 of my patients in their 30s with minimal preexisting conditions die.  I've admitted many many patients in their 30s/40s/50s who had extended hospital stays with resulting massive physical and financial hardships as a result only of covid.   It killed three of my healthcare coworkers that I knew well and I personally cared for several dozen more.    HERD immunity, you don't even know how to spell the word but you think you are an "expert"   

So sorry to hear about that. And that you are questioning your profession. Prayers and thoughts. 

Anecdotal accounts are sad indeed, but, we know the mortality rates, infection rates - with and without the vaccine.  And which demographics it effects. I mean you arent even arguing with me anymore. The CDC agreed with me today. 

Edited by tonydead
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3 minutes ago, tonydead said:

And we really should revisit this post. A page or 2 back I mentioned how hard it is to find a good doctor. Imagine coming into this guy's ER where he thinks 99 out of 100 customers are pieces of crap, "zombies".  Got to wonder about that hypicratic oath at this point. 

didn't say anything close to that - i said that 99% of the covid science deniers and antivaccination crowd are trump supporters.   

I'll actually walk that back - it's probably only 90%.     

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, growlers said:

didn't say anything close to that - i said that 99% of the covid science deniers and antivaccination crowd are trump supporters.   

I'll actually walk that back - it's probably only 90%.     

Supporters?  Are you sure that's the word you used?  

Not to mention the x- rated part. 

Edited by tonydead
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4 minutes ago, tonydead said:

So sorry to hear about that. And that you are questioning your profession. Prayers and thoughts. 

Anecdotal accounts are sad indeed, but, we know the mortality rates, infection rates - with and without the vaccine.  And which demographics it effects. I mean you arent even arguing with me anymore. The CDC agreed with me today. 

anecdotal = someone who has taken care of a couple thousand covid patients.    And it's been the focus of my career for over a year.

I am gonna bow out of this.  I regret jumping back into this cesspool.

I look forward to posting nonsense uninformed opinions in your rocket science thread.

 

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3 hours ago, timschochet said:

The reason he discouraged masks in the first place was because he and other public health experts reasonably feared a run on N-95 masks. But very shortly thereafter, when cheaper common masks became available, Fauci publicly advocated for their use. If Trump hadn’t disagreed with his advice, if a lot more regular folks had done as he asked we could have saved many more lives. 
 

I can’t think of a single major error that Fauci made during this crisis, except perhaps that he should have resigned when Trump attempted to play politics and started spouting dangerous ignorance. 

They feared a run that had already happened?

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Just now, growlers said:

anecdotal = someone who has taken care of a couple thousand covid patients.    And it's been the focus of my career for over a year.

I am gonna bow out of this.  I regret jumping back into this cesspool.

I look forward to posting nonsense uninformed opinions in your rocket science thread.

 

Again the CDC agreed with me today.  How is that uninformed?  God bless, thanks for all your hard work! 

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31 minutes ago, growlers said:

my opinion on masks has evolved, you know, LIKE SCIENCE DOES.   I have read and absorbed evidence put out by experts and formed an opinion, like science does.  It has slowly become clear that vaccinated people are very unlikely to spread the virus. That scientific opinion took time and evidence to evolve.  At this point, now that the scientific community has this evidence

It isnt like masks just appeared in 2020 and it isnt like doctors themselves weren't wearing them from the beginning of this thing.

"The science changed" is just the talking point used to avoid looking bad. 

You know how I know the science didnt change? Most of the citations in the CDCs original guidance change were from before 2020. 

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8 hours ago, tonydead said:

Sorry we figured out vaccinated people don’t need to wear masks before the CDC announced it. That is fact. On the very pages you referenced. 
 

And I bet a lot of us can do our own plumbing.  I can and do. Plumbing isn’t rocket science. 

Well the thing is.  You can watch a plumber doing his work and be able to say...Hey...that doesn't look quite right.   It appears we are supposed to take the advice of the CDC without questioning anything, ever.  Just follow along like brainless fools, and do what we are told. Even if something SEEMS wonky, it appears from the posters here were not even allowed to question it.  Just shut up and do what you're told.

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- 6 foot social distancing? Wrong.
- Surface spreading?  Wrong.
- Outdoor masks?  Wrong.
- Occupancy rules?  Wrong.
- Locking down schools?  Wrong.
- Texas will get a major outbreak after they drop mandates?  Wrong.

Anything else I missed?

Fine being wrong, fine changing your mind - but the amount of damage these top level policies and recommendations cause is wild.

 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, growlers said:

If Joe and the moderators want to wonder why this forum is going to crap, just look at the last 48 hours of this thread for your answer.  The anti-science and anti-expert posters have destroyed it. 

Experts - meaning doctors actually caring for these patients in the hospital - who also read the literature on a daily basis - are denigrated when they post - and are also told that experts like Fauci are clowns for some sort of perceived political points.   All it is one big gotcha thread for whatever error they perceive or whatever talking point Tucker Carlson said on Fox last night.

I don't get the anti-expert angle.  I had a plumber out today to fix something.  I don't know #### about plumbing.  I don't stand there and argue with him and argue about plumbing "facts" I read on twitter.   Yet in this forum, and in real life, there are constantly anti-science MAGA-hats telling me I have no idea what I am talking about.   Even at work. It's bizarre.

 

FWIW, I’m a physician and think the CDC has done a poor job at this at times.

The reality is, there’s room to question the plumber.  If your toilet won’t flush and he comes in with a sledgehammer and starts smashing it, you’re going to say “this solution doesn’t make sense.  You’re smart enough to question that.

The whole “It’s ok if you’re exposed but vaccinated, no need to quarantine BUT wear a mask because you can maybe spread it” leaves room to question them.  And now they’ve reversed course.  
 

It’s not anti-science to question science,  I would argue questioning science is far more scientific than blindly accepting it. In the medical community, you have to prove it again and again and defend it.  Not sure why the CDC can switch positions over and over but we should just shut up and trust them. 
 

It’s not a MAGA circle jerK as some have so eloquently put it.  I’m not sure why questioning the CDC leads to such condescending comments.

Edited by jm192
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I was about to say that the magnanimous thing to do is to just be happy that the CDC came around to reality -- no need to spike the football.  But now I look at the last couple of pages and see some people like who have been consistently wrong for months and months flexing over it (???) and now I'm confused.

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8 hours ago, ekbeats said:

Why don’t you report it to Joe so you don’t have to deal with alternatives opinions from “non-experts” - you know, the people who correctly researched, interpreted and cited the data and studies and were proven to be correct today.  Your esteemed MD made the ludicrous statement that masks don’t restrict oxygenation during track races, and then cited a study that clearly showed that oxygenation is in fact restricted during high intensity exercise, but still wouldn’t admit he was wrong.  He doubled down with some arrogant posts denigrating other posters and was rightfully called out for it.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this thread.  Posters challenged conventional wisdom from supposed experts, cited their work, and in the end were proven to be correct. It actually represents everything that is good about discussion forums.

Huh? You really need to give it a rest. I linked an article to help give some credibility to your argument, but there still isn’t evidence that masks meaningfully impair gas exchange. To be clear, ventilation and pulmonary function are not synonymous with oxygenation. From the same study:

Quote

To our knowledge, there are no studies that examine O2 saturation or the partial pressure of oxygen in response to exercise with a mask. At these high exercise intensities, we would expect that, while oxygen and carbon dioxide concentrations in the blood may remain relatively stable, there would be discomfort related to the temperature of the skin created by the mask and the breathing resistance caused by the mask. 

So, no data that suggests masks restrict oxygen, but they are uncomfortable when exercising.

Also, who did I unfairly denigrate? I’m not the one calling out posters by name, accusing them of smugness, nor am I littering people’s posts with laughing emojis.

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9 hours ago, growlers said:

it's amazing how the CDC was internationally renowned until Trump told 40% of you to not like them.

Have you considered the possibility that maybe something similar has happened with you?  That maybe you've overlooked some valid criticisms of the CDC because you're too invested in the Resistance to consider them?

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9 hours ago, Shula-holic said:

Scott Gottlieb has been way ahead of them in outlining what is likely to occur next and what phase we are in pretty much the whole way.  

Agreed...he's been really good and the guy I've listened to state side the most.  There's been some interesting follows internationally as well, but for here, he's been my go to.  Funny thing is, he was a "clown" around here in the PSF for a stretch when he was saying things people didn't like.  I mean, obviously they knew better, so I sorta get it.  

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9 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I was about to say that the magnanimous thing to do is to just be happy that the CDC came around to reality -- no need to spike the football.  But now I look at the last couple of pages and see some people like who have been consistently wrong for months and months flexing over it (???) and now I'm confused.

Who is flexing over the CDC guidance? What were they wrong about?

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2 minutes ago, Terminalxylem said:

Who is flexing over the CDC guidance? What were they wrong about?

The CDC seems to have changed their stance about needing to wear a mask despite being vaccinated. Some have said for months now this does not make sense.

there are multiple posters on the last two pages telling people that they we’re still wrongly in inappropriately questioning the CDC’s previous stance on needing to wear a mask despite being vaccinated.

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2 minutes ago, jm192 said:

The CDC seems to have changed their stance about needing to wear a mask despite being vaccinated. Some have said for months now this does not make sense.

there are multiple posters on the last two pages telling people that they we’re still wrongly in inappropriately questioning the CDC’s previous stance on needing to wear a mask despite being vaccinated.

Some werent very nice about it either. 

How dare poster at FBG question and make fun of the CDC! 

Meanwhile Anderson Cooper and a bunch of other "experts" on CNN last night questioning the CDC, claiming it's too soon and crying "what about the children?"  

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9 hours ago, growlers said:

i don't doubt if there were a rocket science thread you would post 

tonydead > rocket scientist

enjoy your MAGA-hat circle jerk.

I'll just be at work intubating the remaining science and vaccine deniers who are 99% trump zombies.

I'm a hospitalist that has worked on the COVID unit in our hospital for this past year.  At one point we had a COVID census in the 50's.  I've intubated more COVID patients than I can count.  I've told families their loved one wasn't going to make it.  I've fought the fight.

I'm of the belief we have to let people make their own poor health decisions and deal with the consequences of those decisions.  People are allowed to drink to their heart's content.  Cirrhosis?  We'll take care of you.  Smoke until you get lung cancer and COPD?  We'll take care of you.  Want to refuse a vaccine and get COVID?  That's your choice too.  At some point, we've got to let the people that have done what they're asked to do move forward and take care of the ones who don't take care of themselves when they get sick.

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25 minutes ago, jm192 said:

The CDC seems to have changed their stance about needing to wear a mask despite being vaccinated. Some have said for months now this does not make sense.

there are multiple posters on the last two pages telling people that they we’re still wrongly in inappropriately questioning the CDC’s previous stance on needing to wear a mask despite being vaccinated.

I think the thing to remember is that the CDC shouldn't change course based on logic or "what makes sense". They change their positions based on the facts on the ground, statistical models, and confidence levels.  They will recommend the most conservative approach until they have high confidence that the detrimental effects of that change are low.  Yes, that means they are often advocating for restrictions that the populace doesn't want. 

This these shifts in recommendations have happened many times throughout the course of a worldwide pandemic of a novel virus.  Those changes really shouldn't surprise many.  Is Fauci al knowing? No. But I trust his opinion on infectious disease and epidemiology more than I trust Ron DeSantis.  Furthermore, Fauci doesn't set public policy, he gives recommendations. Elected or appointed government officials set the policy at the state, county, or municipal level. 

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