Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Government Response To The Coronavirus


Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, The Z Machine said:

FWIW, I see no reason to NOT inconvenience those that choose not to get a vaccine that is available to them until everyone has an opportunity to get vaccinated.

Don't like the mask, get the jab.

never mind.

Edited by BladeRunner
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 29.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Australia has had months of little to no community spread and even then it was confined to one state. By and large Australians are running around doing the right thing, sport was and is still hap

This is going to be a one off post because I don't want to get trolled or banned but if I were American, the context of Canada would be the biggest damning fact of how things have been handled in the

I am confident we are going to hit >750K deaths.  I think it might be a million.  I don't post a ton but I'm an ER doc in a big city. This is by far the worse I've seen since the pandemic star

1 hour ago, The Z Machine said:

FWIW, I see no reason to NOT inconvenience those that choose not to get a vaccine that is available to them until everyone has an opportunity to get vaccinated.

Don't like the mask, get the jab.

Should also be reflected in their insurance premiums.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Alex P Keaton said:

Why do you label his position that way?

Because the totalitarian left has a history of "inconveniencing" people when they don't do what they're told.   Whenever I see posts like that it reminds me of them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Because the totalitarian left has a history of "inconveniencing" people when they don't do what they're told.   Whenever I see posts like that it reminds me of them.

Thanks for the reply.  I can see how it feels totalitarian or just government control-oriented.

An analogy which might reinforce your gut reaction.....I look at this like smoking.   If someone is in a bar and they want to smoke, IMO it's fair to make them leave the bar to smoke.  Why?  Because the smoker is the one who is consuming a cancerous product that has spillover impact on others (secondhand smoke).   As opposed to saying "if you don't like smoke, you should leave the bar if others choose to smoke."   I personally think that is fair.   Does it mean I want to mandate that nobody else should smoke?  Nope.  Personal freedom is important to me.  But so is the idea of the actions of one person not harming others.

Similarly, if someone chooses not to get vaccinated, in some situations their action could cause harm to other people.  Thus, the inconvenience should fall on unvaccinated people.   Does it mean that I want to mandate vaccination?  Nope.  Personal freedom is important to me.

(We could use drunk driving as an analogy instead.  But I think you get my point.)

Reasonable people could disagree on this.  Just my view.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Thanks for the reply.  I can see how it feels totalitarian or just government control-oriented.

An analogy which might reinforce your gut reaction.....I look at this like smoking.   If someone is in a bar and they want to smoke, IMO it's fair to make them leave the bar to smoke.  Why?  Because the smoker is the one who is consuming a cancerous product that has spillover impact on others (secondhand smoke).   As opposed to saying "if you don't like smoke, you should leave the bar if others choose to smoke."   I personally think that is fair.   Does it mean I want to mandate that nobody else should smoke?  Nope.  Personal freedom is important to me.  But so is the idea of the actions of one person not harming others.

Similarly, if someone chooses not to get vaccinated, in some situations their action could cause harm to other people.  Thus, the inconvenience should fall on unvaccinated people.   Does it mean that I want to mandate vaccination?  Nope.  Personal freedom is important to me.

(We could use drunk driving as an analogy instead.  But I think you get my point.)

Reasonable people could disagree on this.  Just my view.

Thank you for the great response.  :thumbup:

I probably went over board.  I edited my post.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Thank you for the great response.  :thumbup:

I probably went over board.  I edited my post.

I didn’t really think it was over board personally.   But then again, stuff rarely offends me.  :)

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Navin Johnson said:

Should also be reflected in their insurance premiums.

Now there’s an idea! Or maybe the coverage of any COVID related treatment. You chose not to get the vaccine that could have prevented this hospitalization, we’re gonna leave you with a bigger bill.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Biff84 said:

Now there’s an idea! Or maybe the coverage of any COVID related treatment. You chose not to get the vaccine that could have prevented this hospitalization, we’re gonna leave you with a bigger bill.

This will happen eventually.  Once funding goes away people are going to be left with the bills.

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, The Commish said:
19 hours ago, Doug B said:

To this day, I will never understand why Donald Trump was so resistant to being seen wearing a mask.

Ego (not able to admit he's wrong AND fear of supporters not liking him anymore).  He seemed to have a hard time reading the room in just about every single situation including the ones involving his loyalists

Makeup. I think its because of makeup.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

Had Trump been re-elected, I think the numbers dropping would have been pretty much identical, and had covid hit during an Obama year, numbers pretty much the same as well but that's my opinion

I agree with this. Trump has no say in state policies and plenty of blue states got stomped by covid. 

Biden has had zero influence over the trajectory. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Biff84 said:

Now there’s an idea! Or maybe the coverage of any COVID related treatment. You chose not to get the vaccine that could have prevented this hospitalization, we’re gonna leave you with a bigger bill.

You eat fast food and have a heart attack double your bill.  Eat sugar and get diabetes triple your bill.   Sounds like a great idea!

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Thanks for the reply.  I can see how it feels totalitarian or just government control-oriented.

An analogy which might reinforce your gut reaction.....I look at this like smoking.   If someone is in a bar and they want to smoke, IMO it's fair to make them leave the bar to smoke.  Why?  Because the smoker is the one who is consuming a cancerous product that has spillover impact on others (secondhand smoke).   As opposed to saying "if you don't like smoke, you should leave the bar if others choose to smoke."   I personally think that is fair.   Does it mean I want to mandate that nobody else should smoke?  Nope.  Personal freedom is important to me.  But so is the idea of the actions of one person not harming others.

Similarly, if someone chooses not to get vaccinated, in some situations their action could cause harm to other people.  Thus, the inconvenience should fall on unvaccinated people.   Does it mean that I want to mandate vaccination?  Nope.  Personal freedom is important to me.

(We could use drunk driving as an analogy instead.  But I think you get my point.)

Reasonable people could disagree on this.  Just my view.

A great analogy.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

You eat fast food and have a heart attack double your bill.  Eat sugar and get diabetes triple your bill.   Sounds like a great idea!

The bill is the bill.  Your insurer, however, should be compensated appropriately for taking on more risk.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Navin Johnson said:

The bill is the bill.  Your insurer, however, should be compensated appropriately for taking on more risk.

Point is your attempt to "force" people to get vaccinated financially is short-sighted.  There's all kinds of health "risks" that we can add premiums on.  Hell, there's all kinds of other decisions people make that cost the public more money.  Let's penalize everything, ok?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Point is your attempt to "force" people to get vaccinated financially is short-sighted.  There's all kinds of health "risks" that we can add premiums on.  Hell, there's all kinds of other decisions people make that cost the public more money.  Let's penalize everything, ok?

And....?  Not sure how it is short sighted.

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, BladeRunner said:

Because the totalitarian left has a history of "inconveniencing" people when they don't do what they're told.   Whenever I see posts like that it reminds me of them.

You don't think that the government should provide a carrot or a stick to get more people vaccinated?

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

You don't think that the government should provide a carrot or a stick to get more people vaccinated?

It's not even the government.  You think insurance companies are going to shell out monies for treatments that could have been mitigated, if not completely avoided?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

It's been a year +.  I am fully vaccinated.  I still felt "weird" walking into a Kwik Trip today without a mask.  

Totally normal -- I don't think it's possible to take sensible precautions against covid-19 for a year and change and not become at least somewhat conditioned to mask wearing, distancing, etc.  I would probably slightly freak out if somebody tried to shake my hand today, but that was completely ordinary behavior 18 months ago.

The weirdness will fade pretty quickly.   

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Navin Johnson said:

It's not even the government.  You think insurance companies are going to shell out monies for treatments that could have been mitigated, if not completely avoided?

Business decisions are business decisions.  I have no real problem with people deciding to live poorly.  I have no real problem with insurance companies charging people more if they are choosing to live poorly either.  If healthcare isn't a right in this country, then insurance surely isn't.  I do agree that there needs to be some regulation around what insurance can do in situations where people have conditions/situations that weren't of their choosing, but I'm generally down with "if you're gonna choose to live an unhealthy life, we're gonna charge you".  It applies here, to cigarettes, tobacco, alcohol abuse, choosing not to take vaccines, whatever.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Business decisions are business decisions.  I have no real problem with people deciding to live poorly.  I have no real problem with insurance companies charging people more if they are choosing to live poorly either.  If healthcare isn't a right in this country, then insurance surely isn't.  I do agree that there needs to be some regulation around what insurance can do in situations where people have conditions/situations that weren't of their choosing, but I'm generally down with "if you're gonna choose to live an unhealthy life, we're gonna charge you".  It applies here, to cigarettes, tobacco, alcohol abuse, choosing not to take vaccines, whatever.  

Agree with most of this, however, insurance companies should not be forced to take on risk for which they are not appropriately compensated.  That being said, I am a UHC guy which makes it easier to hit risk takers thru 'sin tax' instead of relying on them to honestly fill out questionnaires.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Navin Johnson said:

Agree with most of this, however, insurance companies should not be forced to take on risk for which they are not appropriately compensated.  That being said, I am a UHC guy which makes it easier to hit risk takers thru 'sin tax' instead of relying on them to honestly fill out questionnaires.

This is kind of hard for me to answer as I don't really believe that healthcare should be "for profit" as we see where that leads us.  With that said, I also understand that isn't the world we live in.  I think insurance should have basic levels of coverage that no one should have withheld.  If that means premiums go up a bit, then so be it.  The other option is to have a ton of "supplemental" coverage that include those risky behaviors above and beyond what foundational insurance covers.  Keep all that in the realm of insurance.  Not sure the answer is allowing it to bleed out into the product side of things (if that makes sense).  

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Thanks for the reply.  I can see how it feels totalitarian or just government control-oriented.

An analogy which might reinforce your gut reaction.....I look at this like smoking.   If someone is in a bar and they want to smoke, IMO it's fair to make them leave the bar to smoke.  Why?  Because the smoker is the one who is consuming a cancerous product that has spillover impact on others (secondhand smoke).   As opposed to saying "if you don't like smoke, you should leave the bar if others choose to smoke."   I personally think that is fair.   Does it mean I want to mandate that nobody else should smoke?  Nope.  Personal freedom is important to me.  But so is the idea of the actions of one person not harming others.

Similarly, if someone chooses not to get vaccinated, in some situations their action could cause harm to other people.  Thus, the inconvenience should fall on unvaccinated people.   Does it mean that I want to mandate vaccination?  Nope.  Personal freedom is important to me.

(We could use drunk driving as an analogy instead.  But I think you get my point.)

Reasonable people could disagree on this.  Just my view.

I don't agree with this.  An unvaccinated person only puts another unvaccinated person at risk, or those that don't want to wear a mask, if you believe that.

So therefore the unvaccinated is only risking another who made the same decision.   A person in a bar who is subjected to second hand smoke has no choice and cannot avoid the smoke.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I don't agree with this.  An unvaccinated person only puts another unvaccinated person at risk, or those that don't want to wear a mask, if you believe that.

So therefore the unvaccinated is only risking another who made the same decision.   A person in a bar who is subjected to second hand smoke has no choice and cannot avoid the smoke.

This is true unless or until a variant develops that is resistant to the vaccine. If that happens, we could be back to where we were a year ago.

We need to eradicate the virus.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Amused to Death said:

This is true unless or until a variant develops that is resistant to the vaccine. If that happens, we could be back to where we were a year ago.

We need to eradicate the virus.

Could get struck by lightning too. Can't think like this.  Theres woulda coulda shoulda everywhere always.   IF a mutation develops that cannot be stopped by a vaccination or a mask, then I imagine we will all go back to the way things were before.   

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, tonydead said:
19 hours ago, the moops said:

Most of those laws were not voted on, they were passed through the legislative process. Just like how every state has some sort of mandatory vaccinations written into law

There he is!

Care to respond to the actual post instead of a snarky one liner? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Z Machine said:

You don't think that the government should provide a carrot or a stick to get more people vaccinated?

Personally, I don't think the government should provide a carrot or a stick. I think the government should simply provide info and let people choose for themselves.

And I think the vax is the way to go for me personally (and for most people). But I can't get past the fact that it is still not FDA approved. Until it is, I think it's unethical to coerce people in any way.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I don't agree with this.  An unvaccinated person only puts another unvaccinated person at risk, or those that don't want to wear a mask, if you believe that.

So therefore the unvaccinated is only risking another who made the same decision.   A person in a bar who is subjected to second hand smoke has no choice and cannot avoid the smoke.

That's not true.  Vaccines aren't 100% effective.  If they were, I would agree with you.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Sand said:

Blue States reject the science and CDC recommendations.

Not terribly surprising - the pandemic gave them lots of power and control.  They're loathe to give it up.

Is keeping a mask mandate for the next few weeks really a power grab? I think that nearly all mask mandates should be rescinded, but I hope that we all can somewhat empathize with governors in this situation. I know if I was governor, and I lifted a mandate and there was even a small uptick in cases and deaths, that woudl weigh heavily on me for the rest of my life.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Could get struck by lightning too. Can't think like this.  Theres woulda coulda shoulda everywhere always.   IF a mutation develops that cannot be stopped by a vaccination or a mask, then I imagine we will all go back to the way things were before.   

I understand. But we went through a lot to get it under control with a lot of sacrifice, it'd be a shame to have a variant come along and wipe it all out because we failed to reach herd immunity. 

Just my opinion.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Alex P Keaton said:

That's not true.  Vaccines aren't 100% effective.  If they were, I would agree with you.

Yes..And there ate dozens of diseases out there for which you are not 100% effective and never will be

Yet...You go out everyday with out a mask.  The flu vaccine is woefully ineffective, yet you used to go out without a mask all the time.

If you want ti live in fear, I'm no judge of that. However maybe you should stay home so as to not risk getting sick and let those who want to get out of the house live their lives.  That's all I am saying.  

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Amused to Death said:

I understand. But we went through a lot to get it under control with a lot of sacrifice, it'd be a shame to have a variant come along and wipe it all out because we failed to reach herd immunity. 

Just my opinion.

Understood.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, the moops said:

Is keeping a mask mandate for the next few weeks really a power grab? I think that nearly all mask mandates should be rescinded, but I hope that we all can somewhat empathize with governors in this situation. I know if I was governor, and I lifted a mandate and there was even a small uptick in cases and deaths, that woudl weigh heavily on me for the rest of my life.

It's a wholly predictable pattern of behavior.  Loudly proclaim you need to follow the science until the science isn't convenient, then discard it.

People die from all kinds of things.  If a governor was really concerned they'd lift the mandate and replicate the Ohio incentive scheme.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Navin Johnson said:

Agree with most of this, however, insurance companies should not be forced to take on risk for which they are not appropriately compensated.  That being said, I am a UHC guy which makes it easier to hit risk takers thru 'sin tax' instead of relying on them to honestly fill out questionnaires.

Oh really?  So what do you think of the ACA's changes to insurance age band premium reforms?

Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Amused to Death said:
49 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I don't agree with this.  An unvaccinated person only puts another unvaccinated person at risk, or those that don't want to wear a mask, if you believe that.

So therefore the unvaccinated is only risking another who made the same decision.   A person in a bar who is subjected to second hand smoke has no choice and cannot avoid the smoke.

This is true unless or until a variant develops that is resistant to the vaccine. If that happens, we could be back to where we were a year ago.

We need to eradicate the virus.

It is also not true for those under 12 years old right now.  I've mentioned this numerous times, but there's a huge segment of the population that cannot get a vaccine at this juncture.  Until then, mask up or get the jab.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Yes..And there ate dozens of diseases out there for which you are not 100% effective and never will be

Yet...You go out everyday with out a mask.  The flu vaccine is woefully ineffective, yet you used to go out without a mask all the time.

If you want ti live in fear, I'm no judge of that. However maybe you should stay home so as to not risk getting sick and let those who want to get out of the house live their lives.  That's all I am saying.  

 

Why are you assuming that I'm living in fear?   Just had a great trip to Ohio and Pennsylvania last week.  Saw a bunch of people.  Played some golf.  It was awesome.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...