The Z Machine
Footballguy
Do you think that children that reported these symptoms weren't suffering from long COVID?
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Government Response To The Coronavirus (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter James Daulton
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Is this the new selfish woke America where people think everyone else needs to react to their irrational feelings? Unbelievable.
matuski
Footballguy
The tiny tiny % of children? Maybe.
More importantly are the symptoms... sounds more like a "long cold" no? Maybe even a long flu in the worst case?
eta - more important than that is the point. The world should not be accomodating the minority now.
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matuski
Footballguy
You weren't, then you resorted to the self centered/selfish angle... in bad faith.
When quite frankly your position was the more self centered (albeit understandable).
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Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
How can they harm children.....if those children are being kept safe/quarantined by their parents?
My kids spent 14 months staying safe while millions and millions of people behaved in a way that was harmful. Those decisions of others didn't affect my kids -- because we kept them at home, we didn't have people over indoors, we didn't go to other people's houses, etc.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Sorry, but I don't laugh about kids losing their sense of taste or smell. Or vomiting or shortness of breath.
Dismissing these reported symptoms seems... strange to me.
Doug B
Footballguy
This is a particularly cavalier post. I know from reading your takes on the COVID vaccine that you care about your kids' health and wouldn't actually laugh off a battery of these symptoms in real life.
Doug B
Footballguy
Correct both are true, but, this is one of those responses about not addressing the point you've previously complained about.
I fully expect the thin skinned governor to change course and stop following the CDC's recommendations, not following the science, and announce this week that he's sticking with mask requirements for indoor public spaces. But right now several businesses have already adopted the CDC guidance it and it's nice to see some normalcy, while it lasts.
Walmart - they understand the state orders are still in place while they are being updated with the latest guidance so they still have the greeter hand out masks and try to make people put them on. Several people ignoring the greeter.
Trader Joes - no mask enforcement, many people without masks.
Local Bar and Grill - all employees maskless, asked them about the requirements and they said, "if you're vaccinated you don't need to wear a mask and we aren't asking. That's on you."
Walmart - they understand the state orders are still in place while they are being updated with the latest guidance so they still have the greeter hand out masks and try to make people put them on. Several people ignoring the greeter.
Trader Joes - no mask enforcement, many people without masks.
Local Bar and Grill - all employees maskless, asked them about the requirements and they said, "if you're vaccinated you don't need to wear a mask and we aren't asking. That's on you."
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Doug B
Footballguy
This is strictly true. Let me be explicit, then:
@jobarules, I will not attempt now, through debate, to convince you that vaccine hesitancy is prima facie unreasonable. Allow me instead to present an emotional appeal to consider Z Machine's stated concerns to be akin to the concerns of the vaccine hesitant.
No more like Im thinking the article is BS. You get a bunch of parents filling in survey data about kids over a long period of time and you're gonna have tons of kids report those symptoms and they could be completely unrelated to covid. Heck, my son suffers from allergies and asthma his whole life. He has a deviated septum that he cant have surgery on until his older and his nose is constantly stuffy.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
NY is getting in on the lottery incentive for receiving the vaccine. "Vax & Scratch" with a $5 million prize along with many lower level prizes.
Has anyone seen how Ohio did with their lottery incentive program?
Has anyone seen how Ohio did with their lottery incentive program?
Of course, everyone has a right to be concerned about their children's health. Im stating the concerns are unjustified. His kids chances of catching COVID from walking in a store by an unvaccinated person without a mask are so low they shouldn't even be considered and if they do happen to catch COVID on that rare occasion the chances of having long covid symptoms are only a % of that as well.
In other words, there's tons of worries we have to navigate in life about our children. Worrying about this one is so low on the totem pole I think doing so is enough to drive someone nuts and yes I think its a bit paranoia.
The Commish
Footballguy
This is exactly what should happen. Unfortunately, government overreach in some areas won't allow it to happen.
Government overreach by mandating less? That's a weird take, I'd think mandating more than the CDC guidance would be more akin to be called government overreach but anyway:
You don't trust individuals to follow the guidance but you trust individual business owners to? That's why you think this is necessary?
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
I don’t want to speak for @Doug Bbut I’m pretty sure his point was that your concerns about getting your kid vaxxed are even less justified than Z Machine’s concerns about his kids catching Covid.
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Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-ohio-lottery-shots/
"Based on preliminary data, the department said the recent period showed a 53% week-to-week increase (May 13 to 18) compared to the time period before the announcement, where 74,000 people received their first dose (May 6 to 11)."
"We are seeing increasing numbers in all age groups, except those 80 and older, who are highly vaccinated already," said Ohio Dept. of Health director Stephanie McCloud. "Although the rate among that group is decreasing, it is doing so at a less rapid pace, demonstrating some positive impact even in that group."
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Yep. Really wish every state would do some version of this. Along with testing other approaches to increase participation.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
My daughter is 11. She wants the vaccine, and will be getting it right away when it's approved for her age.
Also I understand this is the lowest risk age group, but I think it's a tough message that kids this age are receiving. They feel left out and wonder why. You reinforce to them that they are safe, but they ask if they can still get Covid. Can't say "no, you won't get it", as that's not true, they can still get it. These aren't data analysts, they're kids. I know why they set up the trials the way they did, based on risk, but I'm not wild about the message it's sending and think they need to approve this for the younger age group ASAP.
Also I understand this is the lowest risk age group, but I think it's a tough message that kids this age are receiving. They feel left out and wonder why. You reinforce to them that they are safe, but they ask if they can still get Covid. Can't say "no, you won't get it", as that's not true, they can still get it. These aren't data analysts, they're kids. I know why they set up the trials the way they did, based on risk, but I'm not wild about the message it's sending and think they need to approve this for the younger age group ASAP.
The Commish
Footballguy
Governments creating mandates that didn't exist before (in this case it's a mandate that businesses can't mandate) is an additional mandate, not less of a mandate. Not sure why that's "weird" OR why one would consider an additional mandate to be "less". Businesses should be allowed to decide what they feel is correct for their business. Their customers will decide whether that's ok to them or not. That's why I think this is necessary. Has nothing to do with "trust" of anyone. It's pretty much the exact same argument the "open it up!!!!" guys were using the months of May through September (and I agreed with them then)...well, until businesses wanted to open a way those guys didn't approve of, now the tune's changed.
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Ah. Agree, a mandate to enforce masks would be equal to a mandate that you can't enforce masks. As far as mandates go.
We agree again, that businesses should decide what is correct for them. Only you agreed with Oregon that mandated businesses check for proof of vaccination. You said that was the way it should be done.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Of course you can tell them they won't get it. You've lied to them for years about Santa Clause, don't stick them with the Covid Boogeyman for no reason.
The Commish
Footballguy
I read through the pdf and didn't see where they were requiring businesses to check for proof of vaccine. It read like they don't have to check for proof, but if they don't check for proof, all people have to continue wearing masks. Is that incorrect? If it's correct, I see no more overreach in a mandate that you can't enforce masks as a mandate saying you have to enforce masks (which I think you agree with above?)
Mandate #1 - Must wear masks
Mandate #2 - You can let vaccinated people take off masks if you check everyone for proof of vaccination
If we agree that businesses should decide themselves you should be against any mandate, including the two above. Otherwise you're being hypocritical when you say "Businesses should be allowed to decide" or "Government overreach".
moleculo
Footballguy
IMO, the real risk WRT kids is that they could carry the virus and transmit to someone who can't be vaccinated - i.e. the immunocompromised - cancer patients, transplant recipients, etc.
I'm not worried about kids giving it to folks who choose to not vaccinate - that's the risk they have chosen to take. i'm also not concerned about health risks for kids - it doesn't seem a whole lot worse than the flu (for the most part) - yes there is a chance for long-haul symptoms but I don't think that is well documented at this point.
That being said, the immunocompromised would be just as susceptible to other things floating around that we tend to not worry about - i.e. the flu. It's on them to keep themselves safe, just like any other time. And honestly, it's probably easier for them these days - no one will look at them sideways for wearing a mask, there is hand sanitizer everywhere, and generally speaking, social distance is observed.
I'm not worried about kids giving it to folks who choose to not vaccinate - that's the risk they have chosen to take. i'm also not concerned about health risks for kids - it doesn't seem a whole lot worse than the flu (for the most part) - yes there is a chance for long-haul symptoms but I don't think that is well documented at this point.
That being said, the immunocompromised would be just as susceptible to other things floating around that we tend to not worry about - i.e. the flu. It's on them to keep themselves safe, just like any other time. And honestly, it's probably easier for them these days - no one will look at them sideways for wearing a mask, there is hand sanitizer everywhere, and generally speaking, social distance is observed.
The Commish
Footballguy
Addressed in the bold...though #2, as you have it worded is a relaxation of #1 with a new mandate added...one step forward, one step back IMO.
Though now we're on to a different conversation that doesn't really matter to the original comment which was addition of new mandates not a comment on all mandates that have come and gone prior to this. My position has always been that I think business needs to make this decision on their own based on guidance from the science and let the customers decide if they are game or not.
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Dickies
Footballguy
When it's approved for his age group you get him vaccinated not because he is in grave danger of dying from COVID, but because it helps protect those people who cannot get vaccinated due to compromised immune systems. To put this virus in our collective rearview mirror, we need to reach herd immunity.My son is 11. I told him if he gets COVID he will be fine
I can't comprehend how we have functioning people in our society who have experienced the last year yet refuse to get vaccinated.
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Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Great advice from the PSF!
"You won't get Covid kid".
"Eh, if you get Covid you'll be fine".
YOU LIED ABOUT SANTA CLAUS C'MON!!
"You won't get Covid kid".
"Eh, if you get Covid you'll be fine".
YOU LIED ABOUT SANTA CLAUS C'MON!!
No, I dont plan on it. My son is my priority not immuno compromised people. When are people going to realize we are never going to reach herd immunity. Im so sure everyone gets their kid's the flu shot for the greater good of immuno compromised people as well.
How is that not good advice? Statistically speaking its the truth. Do parents of kids with cancer tell their kids they are gonna die? Thats sick.
Dickies
Footballguy
If your son is your priority, and the vaccine is shown to be safe for children, then why risk him getting COVID? We won't reach herd immunity because of people like you.
Because I dont deem COVID a risk to him and all the data agrees with me
People like me, lol. My kid, my choice.
Yes we will. People who don't get the antibodies artificially will develop them naturally by contracting the virus. We'd probably already be there (if we aren't) had we not had so many shut downs and restrictions.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
To be fair, of course I do tell her that kids normally do fine with the virus and that she shouldn't worry about it for herself personally.
She has said back "great well I don't want to give it to a bunch of people and kill them" or something similar. She's a piece of work.
I do try to allay her concerns, obviously. My main gripe is with the approval process at this point. High schoolers, vaccinated. Junior High, it's a mix. Elementary students, can't get it. It's an odd time in the process that will eventually work itself out, but I think it was somewhat shortsighted to have this gap.
I think this is another reason for the CDC's "pulling off the band-aid" guidance. We are now at low enough cases where the people who are unvaccinated will be the only one's getting sick and it wont impact hospital capacity thus we can get to herd immunity sooner (which I personally dont think will ever happen because due to variants and the short term nature of immunity).
Dickies
Footballguy
Really? So your idea of herd immunity is letting everyone catch it and see who survives?
Isnt there some scientific reason for the approval status by age? Kids under 12 dont have fully developed immune systems? Not enough kids under 12 in the study? I dont know the reasons but I thought there was a scientific basis for the age cutoff.
Doug B
Footballguy
Not even "less justified". More like "justified from a similar emotional place."
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