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Government Response To The Coronavirus


James Daulton

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, timschochet said:

Unbelievable isn’t it? And they act proud of it. Trump and his followers have spent the last year and a half promoting ignorance over science, lies over facts, distrust of public health officials...and they’re proud. 

If by that you mean calling out Fauci and the CDC for their mismanagement - particular with regard to confusing messages - then call me whatever you like tim.  I honestly don’t care about your labels.

Edited by ekbeats
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1 hour ago, identikit said:

Deplorables.  Neanderthals. Anti-vaxxers.  Anti-science.  Clinging to guns and bibles.  Wrongthinkers

 

Loving all the labels

Minus the first two and last one that does seem to be a part of the coalition Trump has built but more importantly he specifically targets those folks with misinformation and lies.  I think some in the DNC do the same to other groups.  Whether groups of people are “good” or “bad” can be debated at times but the idea of targeting those groups with misinformation and lies should be universally denounced.

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8 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Minus the first two and last one that does seem to be a part of the coalition Trump has built but more importantly he specifically targets those folks with misinformation and lies.  I think some in the DNC do the same to other groups.  Whether groups of people are “good” or “bad” can be debated at times but the idea of targeting those groups with misinformation and lies should be universally denounced.

If only people fit in just one or two pigeonholes.  

If only people didn't fit in all of the ones listed.

If only they'd vote for the 'correct' candidates.

Just not that simple.

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14 minutes ago, ekbeats said:

If by that you mean calling out Fauci and the CDC for their mismanagement - particular with regard to confusing messages - then call me whatever you like tim.  I honestly don’t care about your labels.

I didn’t use labels. 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Are these descriptions of my cousins?

Many cousins, not just yours

Based on the people who use them, from what I can tell...

 

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8 minutes ago, identikit said:

Many cousins, not just yours

Based on the people who use them, from what I can tell...

 

Anti-science and anti-vaxx are really just descriptors of my cousins based on observation.  I wouldn’t apply the other labels to them, as the others are more judgmental instead of clinical.

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4 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Anti-science and anti-vaxx are really just descriptors of my cousins based on observation.  I wouldn’t apply the other labels to them, as the others are more judgmental instead of clinical.

But others will.

Happens here every day, generally.

Not specifically yours or mine.

I personally don't see the positive value in it.

 

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3 hours ago, identikit said:

Deplorables.  Neanderthals. Anti-vaxxers.  Anti-science.  Clinging to guns and bibles.  Wrongthinkers

 

Loving all the labels

 

 

Don’t forget Facebook Scientists

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3 hours ago, Mile High said:

Who did they poll? From what I could find on the organization behind the poll. Worthless poll to me.

😆😆 Of course.  Don’t like the results, attack the pollster and the poll - without even knowing anything about it.  So predictable.  Every. Damn. Time.  It’s Trafalgar Group, and it’s a legit poll.

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54 minutes ago, ekbeats said:

😆😆 Of course.  Don’t like the results, attack the pollster and the poll - without even knowing anything about it.  So predictable.  Every. Damn. Time.  It’s Trafalgar Group, and it’s a legit poll.

I believe it. I think it’s a legit result. I also think it’s heavily slanted with most of those who distrust Fauci being conservatives or Trump supporters, and I think that says far more about them than about Fauci’s credibility. It’s pretty sad. 

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

I believe it. I think it’s a legit result. I also think it’s heavily slanted with most of those who distrust Fauci being conservatives or Trump supporters, and I think that says far more about them than about Fauci’s credibility. It’s pretty sad. 

Not really.  42% of Independents say their confidence in Fauci decreased, and 20% of Democrats.

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11 hours ago, ekbeats said:

Not really.  42% of Independents say their confidence in Fauci decreased, and 20% of Democrats.

For me there’s a big leap from decreased confidence and the guy doesn’t know anything/a fraud/biased/trying to be a celebrity.  He absolutely made mistakes but we all do and his were neither politically motivated nor self-serving, IMO.

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13 hours ago, ekbeats said:

Not really.  42% of Independents say their confidence in Fauci decreased, and 20% of Democrats.

I'd believe it. 

Certain groups have done a masterful job of sewing seeds of doubt and decoding trust in our institutions.  This moment predates COVID by a lot.

I'm not saying Fauci didn't make mistakes - he did.  But, IMO this eroding trust I'm Fauci correlates strongly with eroding trust in all of the institutions that keep us safe.

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32 minutes ago, moleculo said:

I'd believe it. 

Certain groups have done a masterful job of sewing seeds of doubt and decoding trust in our institutions.  This moment predates COVID by a lot.

I'm not saying Fauci didn't make mistakes - he did.  But, IMO this eroding trust I'm Fauci correlates strongly with eroding trust in all of the institutions that keep us safe.

I don't think people are as easily manipulated as you do.

My trust In Fauci waned based on what he's said. Not on what someone else tried to tell me what he said.

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On 5/21/2021 at 11:34 PM, Alex P Keaton said:

We didn't need hindsight for this.  We knew it at the time.  It was discussed at length (in here and in the real world).  The decision to send college kids home from campus was one of the single dumbest things we did -- and it didn't take a genius-level IQ to figure that out in the moment.   Very very frustrating that we botched that part.

That's fair, although I think with the amount of panic that was present (and human nature being what it is), once the Ivies started shutting down, it would have taken an extremely strong-willed academic institution to hold out against the trend.  They would have gotten a whirlwind of pressure to close, and media outlets would be combing schools that stayed open looking for signs of outbreaks that they could breathlessly report.  Heck, for a few weeks in the fall they did the same thing when the colleges tried to re-open.

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2 hours ago, jobarules said:

Fauci not convinced Covid developed naturally. 

So now I guess the skeptics will believe it

The evidence is overwhelming that the Covid outbreak started at the Wuhan Lab.  But since Trump said it a lot of people refuse to believe.

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Just now, ekbeats said:

The evidence is overwhelming that the Covid outbreak started at the Wuhan Lab.  But since Trump said it a lot of people refuse to believe.

I think there is something to the idea that Trump said it......so people want to believe it is untrue.   The flip side is that I don't really see the evidence as overwhelming (yet).   But then again, I'm sure a whole lot of people here have researched the topic way more than me.   

What specific facts suggest to you that the evidence is overwhelming?  (sincere question)

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1 hour ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Seems rational.  He’s open to investigation.  Science.  Logic.  Seems reasonable.

It was obvious a long time ago that the lab leak theory made sense and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.  Yet it was.

Here's a nice article that explains how Trump broke a lot of brains in the media (what happened to David Frum?), and how that produce very bad journalism on this topic.

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2 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

It was obvious a long time ago that the lab leak theory made sense and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.  Yet it was.

Here's a nice article that explains how Trump broke a lot of brains in the media (what happened to David Frum?), and how that produce very bad journalism on this topic.

The fact the virus just happened to originate from that locale was at best a huge coincidence.  Maybe it is, but those are pretty long odds that it just happened to originate there.  The more our government agencies have to backtrack in this area is only going to make distrust of them grow.  It's been my contention during the whole vaccination push that the government trying to encourage these reluctant people to get the vaccine is actually counter-productive.  They don't trust our government, and things like this add fuel to the fire.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/22/2021 at 9:41 AM, jobarules said:

I'm literally the only person not wearing a mask in stores now. 

Oddly enough, I am sorta shocked at the number of people still wearing them here.  Easily over 75%.  We tried a local place on the water for the first time and almost everyone had them on.  I will say again....confidence is key and we are struggling a bit here.  Everyone is looking for people to work and at some of the places we've been, it's been brutal.  At minimum, they need to put the provision of showing evidence of looking for a job back in the equation to receive benefits IMO.  I'm not sure how much that would help given the reality that we are just now getting back to the levels we were in September of 2020.  People aren't convinced things are good here yet it seems.

Edited by The Commish
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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Oddly enough, I am sorta shocked at the number of people still wearing them here.  Easily over 75%.  We tried a local place on the water for the first time and almost everyone had them on.  I will say again....confidence is key and we are struggling a bit here.  Everyone is looking for people to work and at some of the places we've been, it's been brutal.  At minimum, they need to put the provision of showing evidence of looking for a job back in the equation to receive benefits IMO.  I'm not sure how much that would help given the reality that we are just now getting back to the levels we were in September of 2020.  People aren't convinced things are good here yet it seems.

Just got back from Whole Foods in central CT.  At least 90% of the people were wearing a mask.  CT is tops in the nation with regard to vaccination rates and became the first state to vaccinate more than 70% of adults over 2 weeks ago.  Plenty of stupidity on the left and the right when it comes to Covid.  To each his own though.  Felt great not wearing that hot and itchy mask.

Edited by ekbeats
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2 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

I think there is something to the idea that Trump said it......so people want to believe it is untrue.   The flip side is that I don't really see the evidence as overwhelming (yet).   But then again, I'm sure a whole lot of people here have researched the topic way more than me.   

What specific facts suggest to you that the evidence is overwhelming?  (sincere question)

This article is the best I’ve seen on the evidence pointing to the lab.  Well worth the read.  https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan/

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19 minutes ago, ekbeats said:

This article is the best I’ve seen on the evidence pointing to the lab.  Well worth the read.  https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan/

Thanks for sharing.   Interesting - lengthy - read.   Most important part IMO:  "Neither the natural emergence nor the lab escape hypothesis can yet be ruled out. There is still no direct evidence for either. So no definitive conclusion can be reached."   Lots of conjecture in there.  But still a really good read.

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On 5/20/2021 at 10:14 PM, moleculo said:

As a reminder: herd immunity comes with ~70% of the population being immune.  With 330M citizens, that means 231M much have immunity via infections or injections.  Assuming no vaccine, we are up to 33M now - 10%.  We would have had to endure 7x more infected people and therefore, 7x more deaths, or roughly 4M dead Americans total.

Until we hit 231M vaccinated or recovered people, COVID will continue to be a part of our lives.

Reaching ‘Herd Immunity’ Is Unlikely in the U.S., Experts Now Believe

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10 minutes ago, Desert_Power said:

As soon as masks became a "problem" it was pretty clear we weren't going to get to get there.  That's just where part of the nation is at and it sucks for those who have legit concerns and reasons for not getting the vaccine.  They are either going to have to suck it up and take it or take their chances.  That's a crappy situation to put people in.

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, IvanKaramazov said:

But remember: Fauci is great, he's been a straight shooter through this whole thing, and it's only disgruntled MAGA guys who question his credibility.

There is smoke to the claim that because Trump mentioned it, it was immediately rejected.  That's not a stretch to believe.  

 

ETA:  I wonder if we will be able to actually and truly call it the China Virus.  

Edited by supermike80
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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

What does this article have to do with Fauci?

Fauci was one of the clowns early on who wrote off the lab leak theory as a conspiracy.  Also, he lied (or if you want to be super-charitable, he dissembled) about whether the US ever funded gain-of-function research at WIV.

This time last year, the correct answer to the question "Where did SARS-CoV-2 come from?" was "We don't know, but we should really find out."  (That's still the correct answer today).  Anybody who told you that a lab leak was out of question was either lying to you or didn't know what they were talking about.  It's not believable that Fauci didn't know what he was talking about, so we're left to conclude that he was lying.

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5 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

There is smoke to the claim that because Trump mentioned it, it was immediately rejected.  That's not a stretch to believe.  

The reason why it's not a stretch is because people have said as much out loud.  David Frum explicitly framed it this way.  As did some folks earlier in this thread.  

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7 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Fauci was one of the clowns early on who wrote off the lab leak theory as a conspiracy.  Also, he lied (or if you want to be super-charitable, he dissembled) about whether the US ever funded gain-of-function research at WIV.

I feel like, and maybe that's the problem because I don't remember exactly, the initial push back was 'created in a lab' opposition.  I don't think it's unrealistic at all that this came from a lab as they were studying it.  That's always seemed reasonable to me.

And I don't dismiss, at all, that people reject things simply because Trump said them.  It's like taking issue with rejecting LHUCKS in any financial thread or "conference honk" thread ever.  9999 times out of 10,000 you're right to do so.

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1 minute ago, The Commish said:

I feel like, and maybe that's the problem because I don't remember exactly, the initial push back was 'created in a lab' opposition.  I don't think it's unrealistic at all that this came from a lab as they were studying it.  That's always seemed reasonable to me.

Here's Fauci from a year ago:

Quote

When asked if there could have been a scenario where scientists found the virus outside the lab, brought it back and then it escaped, Fauci shut the line of questioning down.

"But that means it was in the wild to begin with. That's why I don't get what they're talking about [and] why I don't spend a lot of time going in on this circular argument," he said. 

If this was some random guy on the street, I might believe that he really didn't understand what folks were talking about.  But Fauci isn't just some random guy on the street, and while I think he's pretty clearly in way over his head as a public figure, he's not a stupid person.  He was being intentionally dishonest here.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Fauci was one of the clowns early on who wrote off the lab leak theory as a conspiracy.  Also, he lied (or if you want to be super-charitable, he dissembled) about whether the US ever funded gain-of-function research at WIV.

This time last year, the correct answer to the question "Where did SARS-CoV-2 come from?" was "We don't know, but we should really find out."  (That's still the correct answer today).  Anybody who told you that a lab leak was out of question was either lying to you or didn't know what they were talking about.  It's not believable that Fauci didn't know what he was talking about, so we're left to conclude that he was lying.

The intelligence community backed him up.

And did he claim it was just a conspiracy.  One of his earliest quotes was this

 

 “If you look at the evolution of the virus in bats and what’s out there now, [the scientific evidence] is very, very strongly leaning toward this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated."

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3 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

The intelligence community backed him up.

And did he claim it was just a conspiracy.  One of his earliest quotes was this

 

 “If you look at the evolution of the virus in bats and what’s out there now, [the scientific evidence] is very, very strongly leaning toward this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated."

I don't have any special intelligence clearance, but I would be willing to bet nearly any amount of money that the intelligence community did not categorically write off a lab leak.  It's much more likely that our intelligence folks have known about these sick Chinese scientists for well over a year.

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4 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I don't have any special intelligence clearance, but I would be willing to bet nearly any amount of money that the intelligence community did not categorically write off a lab leak.  It's much more likely that our intelligence folks have known about these sick Chinese scientists for well over a year.

Sorry...my fault...right, they did not write off the leak.  They wrote off part of the theory that was floated...the part of it being man-made.

 

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14 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Here's Fauci from a year ago:

If this was some random guy on the street, I might believe that he really didn't understand what folks were talking about.  But Fauci isn't just some random guy on the street, and while I think he's pretty clearly in way over his head as a public figure, he's not a stupid person.  He was being intentionally dishonest here.

 

 

Ok...so this goes to what I thought I remembered.  From your article:

Quote

 

Fauci, who is on the White House Coronavirus Task Force, told the wildlife magazine that COVID-19 likely originated in an animal and then transmitted to humans. He made similar comments last month during a White House briefing. 

"If you look at the evolution of the virus in bats and what's out there now, [the scientific evidence] is very, very strongly leaning toward this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated … Everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that [this virus] evolved in nature and then jumped species," said Fauci, the director of the U.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

When asked if there could have been a scenario where scientists found the virus outside the lab, brought it back and then it escaped, Fauci shut the line of questioning down.

"But that means it was in the wild to begin with. That's why I don't get what they're talking about [and] why I don't spend a lot of time going in on this circular argument," he said. 

His remarks come as President Trump has claimed to have seen evidence that the virus began in Wuhan Virology Institute, which conducts research on contagious pathogens. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo over the weekend said there's a "significant amount of evidence" pointing to Mr. Trump's claim, but did not elaborate. 

 

In my mind there is a SIGNIFICANT difference between "began in a lab" (which, to me means it was created there) and what we are now talking about that it was being STUDIED there after being found in bats or whatever and got out of their control.  And it appears that his comments are attempting to make that distinction as well as he'd heard Trump's assertion and was pushing back on the question.  His question to the underlined should have obviously been "yes".  

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1 hour ago, The Commish said:

Ok...so this goes to what I thought I remembered.  From your article:

In my mind there is a SIGNIFICANT difference between "began in a lab" (which, to me means it was created there) and what we are now talking about that it was being STUDIED there after being found in bats or whatever and got out of their control.  And it appears that his comments are attempting to make that distinction as well as he'd heard Trump's assertion and was pushing back on the question.  His question to the underlined should have obviously been "yes".  

Dude...I have a hard time with this hair splitting.

"created" there and "studied" there--The result was the same.  It got out, killed millions, and changed the world forever. There will be NO free pass from me if it was found out that the latter was true.   

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