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Government Response To The Coronavirus


James Daulton

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32 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

If covid-19 had broken out only five years or so earlier, it would have been an order of magnitude worse.  We'd all be stuck with lousy old-school vaccines like Sinovac that just aren't very good.  Take the arguments we're having today, and imagine instead that our vaccines are only like 50% effective with no hope for anything better on the horizon. That would have really sucked.

Instead we lucked out, in the sense that we just so happened to have invented mRNA technology literally like five minutes before some ####### WIV flunky forgot to wash his hands before punching out for the day.  All of us should be walking around with big cheesy smiles on our faces because we're so happy with how lucky we got -- but no, instead we get anti-vaxxers who are absolutely dead set on looking that gift horse in the mouth. 

Not to downplay how lucky we were or how amazing the mRNA vaccines are but my understanding is the technology has almost been ready for several years and would have been developed for SARS, etc if not for funding drying up when the virus fizzled out.

A few months ago I heard a story about the two people considered responsible for perfecting the technology. They are avoiding fame and credit and instead of taking a victory lap are working to use the tech for other conditions like AIDS.

The original goal was 50% effectiveness. Even J&J crushed that.

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5 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

I'm 0.01% likely to get covid, and ya'll vaccinated are 90-95% not likely

You're not .01 percent likely to get covid.  In just over a year there have been over 35 million confirmed cases in the US.  Thats about one tenth of thr population.  Youre probably thinking of your chances of dying from covid.  And also not including the chances of getting it and having serious health issues. 

3 hours ago, Amused to Death said:

Texas has seen nearly 9,000 COVID-19 deaths since February. All but 43 were unvaccinated people.

Preliminary data shows 99.5% of COVID-related deaths in Texas were among unvaccinated people, according to the Department of State Health Services.

Still better off getting the jab.

 

2 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

0.5%

if everyone in the USA was vaccinated and 0.5% still died .... would you be ok with that ?

Again, you seem to be misunderstanding statistics.  99.5 percent of covid deaths were from unvaccinated people. .5 percent were from vaccinated people. It doesn't mean that  .5 percent of unvaccinated people are dying. 

If we use your .1 percent chance of dying number, that means that in a group of 400,000 people, where 200,000 were vaccinated and 200,000 were unvaccinated, 199 of the unvaccinated died, and only one vaccinated person died. 

Check the math.  199 out of 200,000 is your .1 percent statistic.  200 total people died.  99.5 percent of them were unvaccinated. 

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14 minutes ago, moleculo said:

What science are you referring to?

89% of the population in that county is vaccinated.   I was told that if we got to that level of vaccination we would be at herd immunity and able to live our lives normally.  They are implementing mask mandates when they have 15 people in the hospital due to Covid out of a population of 718,000.  In what universe does any of that sound like they are following the science?

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5 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

this is a highly contagious, fast moving virus .... knowing that, we'd have to assume vaccinated people with covid (not wearing masks, back to normal lives) could be spreading it everywhere

Yes, vaccinated people can still get it and can still spread it.  But they generally have a lower viral load.

Normally it takes time for your immune system to get good at fighting the virus. It also takes a certain amount of the virus to make you seriously ill, and you shed a certain amount of that when you cough, talk, sneeze, etc. 

Imagine it takes 1000 bugs to make you sick. If you start out with two hundred bugs, and they make baby bugs and now you have 400, and then 800, and 1600.  It took just four doublings to get you really sick.  Your immune system didn't have much time to respond.  And now you're probably really contagious, too.  

Imagine that you start with just 2 bugs instead. Now it goes to 4, and then 8, and then 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512 and finally 1024.  It took much longer - nine doublings- to get up to 1000 bugs.  

The healthier your immune system, the less time it takes to figure out how to fight the virus.  Maybe that's the time it takes for five doublings.  So if you get a smaller load,  you'll be fine, but a bigger load will make you sicker.  

Masks help to reduce the amount of the virus that you spread. 

The vaccine helps three things.  One, they help to reduce the time it takes your immune system to learn how to fight those bugs.  Two, because your immune system gets good at fighting it earlier, someone who catches it from you will get a smaller load because you never got close to 1000 bugs yourself.  So the next guy starts with two bugs instead of 200.  Three, the virus needs a host to survive.  If it can't spread it dies. When vaccinated people spread it to other vaccinated people, they give smaller and smaller loads to one another until eventually they aren't giving much at all.  I give Steve 16 bugs, he gives Amy 8 bugs, Sarah just gets 4 and so on. 

When an unvaccinated person gets it, though, they're going to have to rely in their immune system to learn the virus, which means that they get those 8 bugs from a vaccinated person, but it doubles and doubles until they finally beat the virus... but while they were sick they didn't give off 8 bugs, they gave off 64, or 128, or 256.  That's a big part of the problem. 

Another problem is that unvaccinated people hang out with other like-minded people, and give it to each other.  So now you're getting that full sized load when you get sick, and relying on your immune system just like at the peak of this thing.  The people who caught it from a vaccinated person got a lower load and probably were asymptomatic spreaders, but the next group starts with a bigger load and spreads it more.  

You're right that that's their choice... except when their choice puts others people at risk.  Drunk driving is a personal choice, too, and you might be willing to risk your own life to get home tonight, but we have laws against it because there's a chance other people will die.  Populations with weak immune systems or who can't get the vaccine are being threatened with large viral loads when there is a simple way to prevent it.  

You mentioned the risk of getting a vaccine that we don't fully understand.  That's a very real risk.  But we also don't fully understand the long term consequences of this illness.  The fda has approved the vaccine for emergency use, it has NOT approved the actual virus, because we know the virus is deadly. 

You're worried about the long term side effects of taking the vaccine, and I think that's absolutely fine.  I was worried about that too.  I did not want to be one of the first to take this vaccine.  But you also have to consider the long term side effects of the next variant of the virus, which are also unknown. We've already seen worse mutations develop.  The more unvaccinated people who continue to spread it, the more likely it is to become more than .1 percent chance of death when an unvaccinated person gets it. If you want to imagine the worst case for the vaccine that's fine, but for your personal choice you should also consider that the vaccine MAY have some unknown long term side effects, but the virus itself DEFINITELY IS becoming more deadly as it mutates.  

I don't know if there's any hope for a good faith discussion in the politics forum whether it's specifically with you or anyone else who might read this but this is a good faith argument on my part.

As a computer guy I've always said that you can't skip testing, you can only choose whether to do it in a test environment or in production.  The same is true with the vaccine.  When I first heard about this i thought they fast forwarded the testing, and I had the same concerns you did.  But I've done my research and I understand that that's not what happened.  They've vigorously tested this vaccine.  It was the development process that was sped up.  Understanding that made me decide that it was safe enough for me, and understanding that my choice might literally save my own life or someone else's made the decision obvious. 

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1 hour ago, IvanKaramazov said:

If covid-19 had broken out only five years or so earlier, it would have been an order of magnitude worse.  We'd all be stuck with lousy old-school vaccines like Sinovac that just aren't very good.  Take the arguments we're having today, and imagine instead that our vaccines are only like 50% effective with no hope for anything better on the horizon. That would have really sucked.

Instead we lucked out, in the sense that we just so happened to have invented mRNA technology literally like five minutes before some ####### WIV flunky forgot to wash his hands before punching out for the day.  All of us should be walking around with big cheesy smiles on our faces because we're so happy with how lucky we got -- but no, instead we get anti-vaxxers who are absolutely dead set on looking that gift horse in the mouth. 

Unless the virus was created in a lab and they didn’t have the technology to create the virus five years ago, in fact they just figured out how to do it.  Then we’re not lucky about the timing at all we’re the most unlucky.  It’s like just when they figure out how to make the deadly virus then “oops.”

Oh wait, also what if in a year or two there are huge breakthroughs in handling deadly viruses, and those breakthroughs  would have prevented the pandemic entirely?  Then I’d say we’re pretty unlucky that it happened now instead of a few years from now.

 

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14 minutes ago, John123 said:

89% of the population in that county is vaccinated.   I was told that if we got to that level of vaccination we would be at herd immunity and able to live our lives normally.  They are implementing mask mandates when they have 15 people in the hospital due to Covid out of a population of 718,000.  In what universe does any of that sound like they are following the science?

Herd immunity doesn't mean nobody gets it, it means that there are fewer ways for it to enter the herd, fewer people to spread it to, and when vaccinated people do spread it, they typically don't give off as dangerous a viral load because their immune systems catch it earlier and keep the load from getting high in the first place. 

When 15 people are hospitalized, though, that suggests that there are hundreds or thousands who are actually sick, because only a small percentage who get it will be hospitalized.  Many more will be asymptomatic, especially if they've gotten the vaccine. 

Adding to the problem is that those 11 percent who are unvaccinated probably hang out together because they hold similar beliefs.  And those are the people who will get ravaged by this because they're unlikely to avoid one another or quarantine when sick.  

Ironically, the mask mandate is a group of low risk people who have the vaccine being willing to accept an inconvenience and the higher risk people are the ones complaining about it. 

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2 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

Herd immunity doesn't mean nobody gets it, it means that there are fewer ways for it to enter the herd, fewer people to spread it to, and when vaccinated people do spread it, they typically don't give off as dangerous a viral load because their immune systems catch it earlier and keep the load from getting high in the first place. 

When 15 people are hospitalized, though, that suggests that there are hundreds or thousands who are actually sick, because only a small percentage who get it will be hospitalized.  Many more will be asymptomatic, especially if they've gotten the vaccine. 

Adding to the problem is that those 11 percent who are unvaccinated probably hang out together because they hold similar beliefs.  And those are the people who will get ravaged by this because they're unlikely to avoid one another or quarantine when sick.  

Ironically, the mask mandate is a group of low risk people who have the vaccine being willing to accept an inconvenience and the higher risk people are the ones complaining about it. 

Then we might as well just enact a nationwide, permanent mask mandate.   Maybe we should all live in bubbles? 

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8 minutes ago, John123 said:

Then we might as well just enact a nationwide, permanent mask mandate.   Maybe we should all live in bubbles? 

Any time there's a trade off of convenience vs lives, there are people who choose convenience and people who choose to save lives.  Whether it's the speed limit, or the decision to go to war or put our troops in danger, or the decision to have seat belts and drunk driving laws, or mask mandates and vaccination requirements, all of these things require some debate. 

I'd welcome an Intelligent debate on this.  "Maybe we should all live in bubbles" ain't it.

Have a good evening. 

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13 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

Any time there's a trade off of convenience vs lives, there are people who choose convenience and people who choose to save lives.  Whether it's the speed limit, or the decision to go to war or put our troops in danger, or the decision to have seat belts and drunk driving laws, or mask mandates and vaccination requirements, all of these things require some debate. 

I'd welcome an Intelligent debate on this.  "Maybe we should all live in bubbles" ain't it.

Have a good evening. 

I'd say the same thing about a person defending mask mandates in a county with an 89% vaccination rate and 15 people hospitalized out of 718,000 people.  Have a good night yourself!

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1 hour ago, bostonfred said:

Ironically, the mask mandate is a group of low risk people who have the vaccine being willing to accept an inconvenience and the higher risk people are the ones complaining about it. 

This is my biggest concern with reimposing mask mandates. At a personal level, I've gone back to wearing masks when I"m indoors with strangers (although truth be told, I never really stopped). I'm not as anal about it as I was pre-vaccine, but it's what I feel comfortable with.

But at a societal level, it seems weird to impose a rule on the people least likely to follow it. I also worry that the messaging will both confuse and annoy people and reduce trust in public health officials.

In retrospect, what governments should have done was tie reopening standards to either vaccination rates or levels of community spread. The more people who get the shot, the more we can open up restaurants, allow crowds at sporting events, etc. But at this point it may be too late to go back to a policy like that. I'm increasingly thinking that the only way out is through: we need to get as many people vaxxed as possible. If that takes mandates, so be it.

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12 minutes ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

This is my biggest concern with reimposing mask mandates. At a personal level, I've gone back to wearing masks when I"m indoors with strangers (although truth be told, I never really stopped). I'm not as anal about it as I was pre-vaccine, but it's what I feel comfortable with.

But at a societal level, it seems weird to impose a rule on the people least likely to follow it. I also worry that the messaging will both confuse and annoy people and reduce trust in public health officials.

In retrospect, what governments should have done was tie reopening standards to either vaccination rates or levels of community spread. The more people who get the shot, the more we can open up restaurants, allow crowds at sporting events, etc. But at this point it may be too late to go back to a policy like that. I'm increasingly thinking that the only way out is through: we need to get as many people vaxxed as possible. If that takes mandates, so be it.

About 1 in 4 hospital workers had not been vaccinated by the end of May. That number is higher among other health professionals such as aides in ALFs and long-term care facilities. In Florida, less than half of nursing home staff has been vaccinated It's an uphill battle to decrease vaccine hesitancy even among front line workers who've seen COVID deaths.

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11 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

About 1 in 4 hospital workers had not been vaccinated by the end of May. That number is higher among other health professionals such as aides in ALFs and long-term care facilities. In Florida, less than half of nursing home staff has been vaccinated It's an uphill battle to decrease vaccine hesitancy even among front line workers who've seen COVID deaths.

Hospitals requiring employees to be vaccinated is a complete no-brainer. If I had to take my unvaccinated child to the hospital with a non-Covid issue, and I found out the doctor treating him was unvaccinated, well, let's just say that doctor might find himself in a hospital bed of his own.

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11 minutes ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

Hospitals requiring employees to be vaccinated is a complete no-brainer. If I had to take my unvaccinated child to the hospital with a non-Covid issue, and I found out the doctor treating him was unvaccinated, well, let's just say that doctor might find himself in a hospital bed of his own.

I agree 100%, but I don't think it has happened  yet.  Maybe waiting for the FDA final approval. Hospitals do have mask mandates. At the hospital in Miami Beach, there were some deaths early in the pandemic in April 2020 including the 40-year old manager of an outside housekeeping company who contracted COVID and gave it to both parents, eventually leading to all 3 dying. I'm not sure of the vaccine rate overall, but it's over 90% in my outpatient department. Knowing someone who died of COVID probably increases vaccine compliance. The hospital puts a sticker on badges for both the flu and COVID vaccines. The flu vaccine or a signed exception is required every year.  TB testing was required annually until recently. 

I know a dermatologist who waited until 2 weeks ago to get the J&J vaccine, citing unknown side effects for waiting so long. 

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1 minute ago, SoBeDad said:

I agree 100%, but I don't think it has happened  yet.  Maybe waiting for the FDA final approval. Hospitals do have mask mandates. At the hospital in Miami Beach, there were some deaths early in the pandemic in April 2020 including the 40-year old manager of an outside housekeeping company who contracted COVID and gave it to both parents, eventually leading to all 3 dying. I'm not sure of the vaccine rate overall, but it's over 90% in my outpatient department. Knowing someone who died of COVID probably increases vaccine compliance. The hospital puts a sticker on badges for both the flu and COVID vaccines. The flu vaccine or a signed exception is required every year.  TB testing was required annually until recently. 

I know a dermatologist who waited until 2 weeks ago to get the J&J vaccine, citing unknown side effects for waiting so long. 

I know someone who's relatively high up on the administrative side at Jackson Health. I spoke to him a month or so ago, and it sounded like they were going with the whole "we're not requiring the vaccine, but we're going to make things very inconvenient for you if you don't get it" policy. I'm curious if they've since decided to tighten things up. I feel like there's increasing pressure on hospitals to do that.

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4 minutes ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

I know someone who's relatively high up on the administrative side at Jackson Health. I spoke to him a month or so ago, and it sounded like they were going with the whole "we're not requiring the vaccine, but we're going to make things very inconvenient for you if you don't get it" policy. I'm curious if they've since decided to tighten things up. I feel like there's increasing pressure on hospitals to do that.

Another option is a health insurance surcharge for those who don't vaccinate. There's a surcharge for smokers, although enrolling in a smoking cessation program eliminates the surcharge. 

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6 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

Another option is a health insurance surcharge for those who don't vaccinate. There's a surcharge for smokers, although enrolling in a smoking cessation program eliminates the surcharge. 

Honestly, if we're talking about hospitals, they should just keep it simple and make it required. Get the shot or get a severance check. Only possible argument I can see against it is if they think they would lose so many people that it would cause staffing problems.

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3 hours ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Unless the virus was created in a lab and they didn’t have the technology to create the virus five years ago, in fact they just figured out how to do it.  Then we’re not lucky about the timing at all we’re the most unlucky.  It’s like just when they figure out how to make the deadly virus then “oops.”

Oh wait, also what if in a year or two there are huge breakthroughs in handling deadly viruses, and those breakthroughs  would have prevented the pandemic entirely?  Then I’d say we’re pretty unlucky that it happened now instead of a few years from now.

 

Are you channeling my wife? Its okay for things to kind of be okay or at least not the worst (or best) scenario, As long as I'm alive its all noise. Try and enjoy your voyage.

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10 minutes ago, cosjobs said:

Are you channeling my wife? Its okay for things to kind of be okay or at least not the worst (or best) scenario, As long as I'm alive its all noise. Try and enjoy your voyage.

Don't worry, cos, he's high is all.

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11 hours ago, moleculo said:

I mean, 70 years ago, men stormed the beaches of Normandy.  In 2021, grown men are scared to get a shot.  It's incredible.

I mean, you can take a bullet out, but you can't take a vaccine out.

  :P

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Interesting that Chicago is requiring all teachers and students to wear a mask this fall when schools open (regardless of if you had the vax).  This coming weekend is Lollapalooza, no mask required.  

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11 hours ago, John123 said:

I'd say the same thing about a person defending mask mandates in a county with an 89% vaccination rate and 15 people hospitalized out of 718,000 people.  Have a good night yourself!

I'm not sure about the county you are referring to but perhaps they are concerned about people from other parts of the state and country with lower vaccination rates coming in that might be infected or at risk

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36 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

Interesting that Chicago is requiring all teachers and students to wear a mask this fall when schools open (regardless of if you had the vax).  This coming weekend is Lollapalooza, no mask required.  

A guess is that mostly adults are going to see Lollapalooza and they have access to the vaccine plus the event is outdoors.

When school starts it will be indoors and children are unvaccinated.

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14 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

A guess is that mostly adults are going to see Lollapalooza and they have access to the vaccine plus the event is outdoors.

When school starts it will be indoors and children are unvaccinated.

Isn’t the age group that would go to this the highest percentage of unvaccinated?   Personally I don’t care either way, but the city was really locked down before.  It’s a pretty big story in Chicago. 

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11 hours ago, SoBeDad said:

About 1 in 4 hospital workers had not been vaccinated by the end of May. That number is higher among other health professionals such as aides in ALFs and long-term care facilities. In Florida, less than half of nursing home staff has been vaccinated It's an uphill battle to decrease vaccine hesitancy even among front line workers who've seen COVID deaths.

I wonder why that is.

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The nice thing about being vaccinated is I'm safe from the virus.....but if there's a long term affect that we don't know about....since there are so many of us, there will be a real push for some kinds of reparations/pay off for any potential health issues/pain and suffering.  WIN/WIN

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8 minutes ago, FairWarning said:

Isn’t the age group that would go to this the highest percentage of unvaccinated?   Personally I don’t care either way, but the city was really locked down before.  It’s a pretty big story in Chicago. 

Yeah but at least they do have access to the vaccine if they wanted it and the event is outside. 

Probably the biggest reason is that they're likely to get very low compliance at the event even if there was a mask mandate so why bother?

 

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18 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

The nice thing about being vaccinated is I'm safe from the virus.....but if there's a long term affect that we don't know about....since there are so many of us, there will be a real push for some kinds of reparations/pay off for any potential health issues/pain and suffering.  WIN/WIN

Spoken like a healthy person.

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12 hours ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

Hospitals requiring employees to be vaccinated is a complete no-brainer. If I had to take my unvaccinated child to the hospital with a non-Covid issue, and I found out the doctor treating him was unvaccinated, well, let's just say that doctor might find himself in a hospital bed of his own.

Not a no brainer if you are short staffed or if the majority of the unvaxxed are black. 

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3 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

No need for any of that.  Just get vaccinated and then do whatever you want.

Sure.  That's been my stance all along.  My post was in response to someone who was defending a mask mandate in a county where 89% of the population is vaccinated and they have 15 people hospitalized due to Covid out of a population of 718,000.  If that county isn't the poster child for letting people live their lives then we might as well just have a permanent mask mandate going forward. 

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1 minute ago, John123 said:

Sure.  That's been my stance all along.  My post was in response to someone who was defending a mask mandate in a county where 89% of the population is vaccinated and they have 15 people hospitalized due to Covid out of a population of 718,000.  If that county isn't the poster child for letting people live their lives then we might as well just have a permanent mask mandate going forward. 

Oh, sorry.  I missed the context of the post you were responding to.

I fully agree that mask mandates are kind of dumb at this point.

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4 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

No need for any of that.  Just get vaccinated and then do whatever you want.

Maybe not wear masks?  :P

 

3 hours ago, FairWarning said:

Interesting that Chicago is requiring all teachers and students to wear a mask this fall when schools open (regardless of if you had the vax).  This coming weekend is Lollapalooza, no mask required.  

 

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1 minute ago, 2Squirrels1Nut said:

Because some people choose to ignore science and the health of themselves and children too young to get the vaccine I'm going to be forced to wear a mask everywhere again.  

So unfair. 

I think a lot of people will refuse.

The CDC really can't keep flip flopping like this and keep public trust.  

Wasn't it for a while that you had to wear a mask even if vaccinated because you might spread it?  Then it became "Get the vaccine or wear a mask."

Now it's get the vaccine and wear a mask.  

 

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Just now, jm192 said:

I think a lot of people will refuse.

The CDC really can't keep flip flopping like this and keep public trust.  

Wasn't it for a while that you had to wear a mask even if vaccinated because you might spread it?  Then it became "Get the vaccine or wear a mask."

Now it's get the vaccine and wear a mask.  

 

I think part of this is due to the fact that we know unvaccinated people aren't wearing masks, given that it's on the honor system.  So the options are A) require proof of vaccination, or B) make everyone mask up.

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Just now, Rich Conway said:

I think part of this is due to the fact that we know unvaccinated people aren't wearing masks, given that it's on the honor system.  So the options are A) require proof of vaccination, or B) make everyone mask up.

Oh, I agree 100%.  

The reason they didn't want to say the vaccine meant the mask could come off initially was that very reason.  The reason they're going to recommend we go backwards is that same reason.

I think a lot of people are just sick of the constant changing of positions.  And they want to do this game of "The real reason is people won't comply, but we can't say that."  And that just causes more frustration because people feel like you're being dishonest. 

There's also a big part of me that thinks it's no longer my fault if someone who didn't get the vaccine gets it.  You've had a long time and it's readily available.  Pre-Vaccine, I thought it was a civil responsibility to wear a mask and socially distance.  Now I've done my part by getting the vaccine.  I no longer owe it to people to mask up.

 

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9 minutes ago, jm192 said:

I think a lot of people will refuse.

I agree.  

My local community literally got into a shouting match over mask mandates last fall.  It was pretty embarrassing because we're usually pretty nice to one another, but our pandemic restrictions were almost certainly the single most bitterly divisive issue that's come up during the 20+ years that I've lived here.  Those of us on the pro-mask/pro-lockdown side won with a 4-1 city council vote where at least two of those "yes" votes were squishier than a Susan Collins press release. 

But that was then and this is now.  With vaccines widely available for all adults, I'm not seeing the scientific reason why our high school should bring back masking.  If I'm officially off the mask mandate bus, I have a hard time imagining that my city will have any interest in revisiting that issue. 

I can see an argument for elementary schools since kids that young can't get vaccinated thanks to the FDA dragging its feet.  But high schools?  How is this not essentially anti-vax propaganda?

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15 minutes ago, jm192 said:

There's also a big part of me that thinks it's no longer my fault if someone who didn't get the vaccine gets it.  You've had a long time and it's readily available.  Pre-Vaccine, I thought it was a civil responsibility to wear a mask and socially distance.  Now I've done my part by getting the vaccine.  I no longer owe it to people to mask up.

Co-sign, and there are a ton of people out there like us.  As a political outlier, I'm not used to being the median voter or even being within sight of the median voter, but I do think we're the median voter at this point.

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1 minute ago, IvanKaramazov said:
18 minutes ago, jm192 said:

There's also a big part of me that thinks it's no longer my fault if someone who didn't get the vaccine gets it.  You've had a long time and it's readily available.  Pre-Vaccine, I thought it was a civil responsibility to wear a mask and socially distance.  Now I've done my part by getting the vaccine.  I no longer owe it to people to mask up.

Co-sign, and there are a ton of people out there like us.  As a political outlier, I'm not used to being the median voter or even being within sight of the median voter, but I do think we're the median voter at this point.

Yeah, we're on different sides of a lot of issues, but I'm in agreement here.   

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