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Government Response To The Coronavirus


James Daulton

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3 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

 

more vaccinations = more covid it appears ?

maybe vaccinated not wearing masks and going everywhere is spreading it like wildfire to those not vaccinated? 

maybe 100,000 walking across the border every month is brining in new variants ?

maybe unvaccinated are going to get covid at a 10% rate while  vaccinated clips along at 2% ?

we don't know yet .... if I get covid, I aint going to blame everyone else for it though, I chose my choices

Maybe...just maybe...it's because the delta variant is much more contageous and much more transmissable. 

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16 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

 

more vaccinations = more covid it appears ?

maybe vaccinated not wearing masks and going everywhere is spreading it like wildfire to those not vaccinated? 

maybe 100,000 walking across the border every month is brining in new variants ?

maybe unvaccinated are going to get covid at a 10% rate while  vaccinated clips along at 2% ?

we don't know yet .... if I get covid, I aint going to blame everyone else for it though, I chose my choices

It’s because delta is more contagious. We don’t have to guess. 

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On 7/30/2021 at 7:28 AM, djmich said:

Does anyone have a good link to something that details the effectiveness of masks.  With data.  For sure as of today's understanding, but ideally with some sort of history on any changes in datapoints.  Thx


I ran across something today that might have what you're after.

It was a post in a thread on another message board. It's a topic titled "SARS-CoV-2 Variants and Mask Effectiveness (Factual)". The thirteenth post reads as follows:

Quote

 

If you want more reading material, these are links to articles regarding mask effectiveness that the head of my local county health department provided today when challenged by one of the judges about mask recommendations. The delta variant, which is on the increase locally, had prompted the interaction between the health department and the judge. I don’t know if any of the articles touch specifically on the issue of equal effectiveness for all COVID variants. I would wonder if newer variants have existed long enough for anyone to do studies of variant-specific mask effectiveness.

A rapid systematic review of the efficacy of face masks and respirators against coronaviruses and other respiratory transmissible viruses for the community, healthcare workers and sick patients (nih.gov) 

An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19 | PNAS

How effective is a mask in preventing COVID‐19 infection? (nih.gov)

Effectiveness of Mask Wearing to Control Community Spread of SARS-CoV-2 | Infectious Diseases | JAMA | JAMA Network

Making sense of the research on COVID-19 and masks (byu.edu)

Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission | Science (sciencemag.org) 

 


I have not gone through all that myself. It is plenty to wade through. With the questions you have, I would open each link and do some keyword searches (CTRL+F) to see if they address the specific points in which you are interested.

Beyond that post, that overall thread has lots of links to other articles in a similar vein. A lot to wade through, but a lot of well-sourced info for those seeking to dive deep.

EDIT: Meant to actually link to the that other-board thread. Added a link above.

Edited by Doug B
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2 hours ago, dkp993 said:

Still a huge huge fan of the tough guy “I’m not scared one bit” of COVID but carry a gun everywhere for safety shtick.  


He’s scared of everything except what he should be. I know a lot of people who think they are healthy and don’t need to worry but are overweight, on three different blood pressure meds and borderline diabetic. 

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3 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

 

the above is really tiresome

if you've been vaccinated you got NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT - Biden has said that over and over

don't worry about unvaccinated - most of us probably don't want you to worry

vaccinated people are capable of spreading covid all over the place - doesn't that bother you too ? don't you see it as selfish to walk around without a mask, go to parties and get togethers etc knowing you can be spreading covid ?

 

 

 

I care about people. Even foolish ones that do no get vaccinated. I worry, sorry.

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1 hour ago, dawgtrails said:

I care about people. Even foolish ones that do no get vaccinated. I worry, sorry.

 

It's fine to care, and admirable, but you shouldn't give up your way of life in perpetuity.  

I know lots of unvaccinated people.  They are the majority in the area I'm from.  Like our governor said, you can't make people take care of themselves.  The majority of the people here aren't going to get the vaccine and let's face it, it's not going to be federally mandated.  

So we have a choice.  We can choose to live our lives in restriction purgatory trying to lessen the sickness on that population until the day we die or we can live life normally and let those who chose not to be vaccinated take whatever consequences fall on them.  Add to that, we will live in a poorer country with high unemployment and economic struggles if we choose that constant mitigation path, it's inevitable.  We are already seeing that the virus is here to stay, it's never going to be eradicated.  We will have to learn to live with it like we do the flu and hope we all eventually build up immunity through both sickness and vaccine.  Those who choose to take the more difficult path, you cannot change that.  

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Most people I know, myself included, have a loved one who is immuno-compromised. My dad is a organ recipient, and while he is doing wonderfully, the current data says that the vaccine is only 40% effective. So, all those people that refuse to get the vaccine are not just hurting themsleves. They are putting many more people at risk because of their selfishness

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7 hours ago, dawgtrails said:

Most people I know, myself included, have a loved one who is immuno-compromised. My dad is a organ recipient, and while he is doing wonderfully, the current data says that the vaccine is only 40% effective. So, all those people that refuse to get the vaccine are not just hurting themsleves. They are putting many more people at risk because of their selfishness

But they are only putting other unvaccinated people at risk right? 

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49 minutes ago, Max Power said:

But they are only putting other unvaccinated people at risk right? 

the unvaccinated population includes immuno-compromised like @dawgtrails's dad, those who cannot take the vaccine for other medical reasons, religious exemptions, and others.  My daughters best friends (twins, 14YO) want the vaccine but their parents are anti-vaxxers, so no shot for them.

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2 minutes ago, moleculo said:

the unvaccinated population includes immuno-compromised like @dawgtrails's dad, those who cannot take the vaccine for other medical reasons, religious exemptions, and others.  My daughters best friends (twins, 14YO) want the vaccine but their parents are anti-vaxxers, so no shot for them.

My dad is vaccinated. Most immuno-compromised folks I know are in fact vaccinated. The efficacy rate is only about half of others though. That is the issue I have with the unvaccinated because they put that subset of the population at a much higher risk. My dad stayed with us a few months ago. He was planning on doing so again, but because of increased cases, he is going to forego this visit :kicksrock:

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10 hours ago, Doug B said:


I ran across something today that might have what you're after.

It was a post in a thread on another message board. It's a topic titled "SARS-CoV-2 Variants and Mask Effectiveness (Factual)". The thirteenth post reads as follows:


I have not gone through all that myself. It is plenty to wade through. With the questions you have, I would open each link and do some keyword searches (CTRL+F) to see if they address the specific points in which you are interested.

Beyond that post, that overall thread has lots of links to other articles in a similar vein. A lot to wade through, but a lot of well-sourced info for those seeking to dive deep.

EDIT: Meant to actually link to the that other-board thread. Added a link above.

Thanks for posting. I'm still trying to find any sort of systematic study of masks and children, particularly in schools.

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13 hours ago, dkp993 said:

Still a huge huge fan of the tough guy “I’m not scared one bit” of COVID but carry a gun everywhere for safety shtick.  

Aren't both public health epidemics?

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28 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

My dad is vaccinated. Most immuno-compromised folks I know are in fact vaccinated. The efficacy rate is only about half of others though. That is the issue I have with the unvaccinated because they put that subset of the population at a much higher risk. My dad stayed with us a few months ago. He was planning on doing so again, but because of increased cases, he is going to forego this visit :kicksrock:


Yeah this is one of the biggest concerns is that many of the people who need vaccination protection the most may not get the full effects of the vaccine. The group that concerns me the most are diabetics. If we start seeing severe breakthrough cases in diabetics, we’re in trouble.

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Just now, sho nuff said:

Yeah. I know where the place is too.  That guy is something..

The one thing I picked up on is how many times he says "I" and "me".   From the short clip you linked the guy seems more about himself than God.

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53 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

My dad is vaccinated. Most immuno-compromised folks I know are in fact vaccinated. The efficacy rate is only about half of others though. That is the issue I have with the unvaccinated because they put that subset of the population at a much higher risk. My dad stayed with us a few months ago. He was planning on doing so again, but because of increased cases, he is going to forego this visit :kicksrock:

Would he potentially be helped by a third shot, or is the efficacy rate not going to change much at this point?

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6 minutes ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

Would he potentially be helped by a third shot, or is the efficacy rate not going to change much at this point?

Pfizer is already promoting their "booster" shot.  Biden said people don't need a booster "yet" but the govt has already purchased them in case they are needed.  Which means, they are right around the corner. 

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11 hours ago, dawgtrails said:

I care about people. Even foolish ones that do no get vaccinated. I worry, sorry.

I no longer care about those that choose to not vaccinate. The ones I do care for are the health care workers who continue to have to care.

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1 minute ago, Max Power said:

Pfizer is already promoting their "booster" shot.  Biden said people don't need a booster "yet" but the govt has already purchased them in case they are needed.  Which means, they are right around the corner. 

Probably the case. My mother-in-law, who is both in her 70s and a cancer survivor (not to mention a Covid widow), will get one the moment her doctor advises it.

My question was about people like dawgtrail's dad, who have gotten the shot (or more likely shots) and know that their condition renders it less effective. I wonder if the booster will help them at all. I have friends -- one with MS, the other with Crohn's -- who have been told the same thing about their vaccine's efficacy rate. The scary part is, the MS guy was saying his doctor can't even give him much guidance as to how much less effective it is. Could be 99%, could be 50%, could be less.

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11 hours ago, dawgtrails said:

I care about people. Even foolish ones that do no get vaccinated. I worry, sorry.

 

I can imagine your pain with the 650,000 dead every year from tobacco and 850,000 dead from abortion and the millions dead from obesity/healthy living choices

That's a lot to carry every day man

 

so, I called this morning to get my covid rapid test

nope - they won't give me one without me having symptoms. Wow, that's different than a year ago. So I said ok, the 2-3 day results nasal swab and she said yeah, that's 70% inaccurate if you don't have symptoms. And my United Health Care might not cover the tests now

what?  WOW

did ya'll know that? that during covid and all the testing of asymptomatic people, that it was only a 30% accuracy rate and a 70% inaccurate ?

 

good gawd - that's horrible, HORRIBLE and nobody knew it then  - wow

 

Edited by Stealthycat
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28 minutes ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

Would he potentially be helped by a third shot, or is the efficacy rate not going to change much at this point?

Don't ask me to re find it, but I read somewhere that they were experimenting on mixing the Pfizer and Modena vaccines where you got one shot of each in these cases (or 2 and 1).   The theory being that maybe the different makeups would offer some form of greater protection to those where the protection was less than normal.   For most people this was not recommended (I assume pointless), but whether or not doing this on purpose was a bad thing seemed to have soften over time.   

(Again this was an article I read a few weeks back.  Don't trust my memory and/or understand or that of the author of the article that much since I cannot link it and instead just take this as a jumping off point to hopefully trigger a response or two from those that know this stuff. )

ETA:  Oh I think I remember that the reason that the position for "most people" has soften is because internationally where supplies have been limited they have experience  mixing and matching out of necessity.  

Edited by Bottomfeeder Sports
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10 minutes ago, ignatiusjreilly said:

Probably the case. My mother-in-law, who is both in her 70s and a cancer survivor (not to mention a Covid widow), will get one the moment her doctor advises it.

My question was about people like dawgtrail's dad, who have gotten the shot (or more likely shots) and know that their condition renders it less effective. I wonder if the booster will help them at all. I have friends -- one with MS, the other with Crohn's -- who have been told the same thing about their vaccine's efficacy rate. The scary part is, the MS guy was saying his doctor can't even give him much guidance as to how much less effective it is. Could be 99%, could be 50%, could be less.

It's tough to figure out what the facts are right now.  The vaccine effectiveness decreases over time and the Delta variant has reduced the vaccine effectiveness even more, but what is the "booster?"  is it designed for Delta or just another in the series.

If someone gets vaccinated today what is the efficiency of the vaccine?  Do they still need a booster? 

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18 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Pfizer is already promoting their "booster" shot.  Biden said people don't need a booster "yet" but the govt has already purchased them in case they are needed.  Which means, they are right around the corner. 


Booster were always coming à la the annual flu shot. The open question has been and remains "When?".

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10 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

 

I can imagine your pain with the 650,000 dead every year from tobacco and 850,000 dead from abortion and the millions dead from obesity/healthy living choices

That's a lot to carry every day man

 

so, I called this morning to get my covid rapid test

nope - they won't give me one without me having symptoms. Wow, that's different than a year ago. So I said ok, the 2-3 day results nasal swab and she said yeah, that's 70% inaccurate if you don't have symptoms. And my United Health Care might not cover the tests now

what?  WOW

did ya'll know that? that during covid and all the testing of asymptomatic people, that it was only a 30% accuracy rate and a 70% inaccurate ?

 

good gawd - that's horrible, HORRIBLE and nobody knew it then  - wow

 

Sounds legit

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12 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

did ya'll know that? that during covid and all the testing of asymptomatic people, that it was only a 30% accuracy rate and a 70% inaccurate ?

good gawd - that's horrible, HORRIBLE and nobody knew it then  - wow


Yes -- those tests don't detect anything until the infection has advanced for a few days.

When my son had to get tested in May (a) after being exposed at school, and (b) two days before his first vaccination ... we needed surer results. And so, he received a sinus swab and a PCR test of the sample.

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8 minutes ago, Doug B said:


Booster were always coming à la the annual flu shot. The open question has been and remains "When?".

You'd think when the vaccine effectiveness drops to 40% and we're having a second major surge, it would be time... But I guess not.

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1 minute ago, Max Power said:

You'd think when the vaccine effectiveness drops to 40% and we're having a second major surge, it would be time... But I guess not.

Who said the vaccine effectiveness has dropped to 40%?

Edit: recognizing, of course, that "the vaccine" is inaccurate, as there are 3 different ones here in the US, but still using it as shorthand.

Edited by Rich Conway
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Just now, Max Power said:

You'd think when the vaccine effectiveness drops to 40% and we're having a second major surge, it would be time... But I guess not.


This hasn't happened, though it's easy to find media pieces that make it sound like it has.

Although -- we have to mutually define "effectiveness" to facilitate meaningful discussion. "Effectiveness" is not a firm singular thing - it's quite interpretable and subject to various conditions.

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7 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Booster were always coming à la the annual flu shot. The open question has been and remains "When?".

There was a part of me -- the cynical, anti-corporate part -- who was wondering a couple months ago if the booster shot talk was a ploy by Big Pharma, which would much rather sell boosters to rich countries at a big markup than sell first shots at cost to help get the developing world vaccinated.

But the combination of Delta plus vaccine hesitancy has convinced me that, if wiping the virus out completely ever was theoretically possible, that ship has sailed, and there's no way it doesn't become endemic, which probably means boosters for all (and miniature American flags for others)

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10 minutes ago, Rich Conway said:

Who said the vaccine effectiveness has dropped to 40%?

Edit: recognizing, of course, that "the vaccine" is inaccurate, as there are 3 different ones here in the US, but still using it as shorthand.

I was quoting a post up the page with the 40% number

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9 minutes ago, Doug B said:


This hasn't happened, though it's easy to find media pieces that make it sound like it has.

Although -- we have to mutually define "effectiveness" to facilitate meaningful discussion. "Effectiveness" is not a firm singular thing - it's quite interpretable and subject to various conditions.

I'll agree with that.  I'm still seeing 99% survivability for those vaccinated. So in that regard I don't understand why people are saying the unvax'd are putting the vax'd at risk.    

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10 hours ago, dawgtrails said:

My dad is a organ recipient, and while he is doing wonderfully, the current data says that the vaccine is only 40% effective.


Have to ask @dawgtrails to be sure ... but I read the "40%" here as something his dad's doctor said to his dad given his dad's specific health situation. Not a general 40% for everyone.

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4 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I'll agree with that.  I'm still seeing 99% survivability for those vaccinated. So in that regard I don't understand why people are saying the unvax'd are putting the vax'd at risk.    


A week or two or three of being miserably sick at home. A week or two or three of being miserably sick in the hospital. Long COVID symptoms. Etc.

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Just now, Doug B said:


A week or two or three of being miserably sick at home. A week or two or three of being miserably sick in the hospital. Long COVID symptoms. Etc.

What % of the vaccinated are being hospitalized long term due to Covid?

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11 minutes ago, Doug B said:


A week or two or three of being miserably sick at home. A week or two or three of being miserably sick in the hospital. Long COVID symptoms. Etc.

But these are three things that the vaccines are incredibly good at preventing.  (Well, maybe two and a half -- we don't understand "long covid" very well, but it stands to reason that that syndrome is going to be way less common among people whose immune systems have no problem beating back covid).

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9 minutes ago, Max Power said:
11 minutes ago, Doug B said:


A week or two or three of being miserably sick at home. A week or two or three of being miserably sick in the hospital. Long COVID symptoms. Etc.

What % of the vaccinated are being hospitalized long term due to Covid?


Strike that section if you care to -- I don't know that specific percentage, and it wasn't the lynchpin of my response. It's certainly non-zero, and trends with age and infirmity.

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19 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

the entire article was on covid - he wasn't seeing people for tonsils I don't think

 

Wed night ate dinner with 8 company people ... Fri met with one of them for an hour or so close quarters .... today get a text from that guy he's covid positive, said Friday was the symptoms

once again I've been around covid positive, symptomatic person .... will I get covid this time? time will tell - I am almost certain will be told to go get nasal swab and isolate for a week

am I worried? nope - not one bit 

 

 

I read the same post, it was a very long post written by a Hospitalist.  He was saying of the admitted patients he saw, 13 were unvaccinated and were in the hospital for Covid...the other patients were not there for Covid.

The whole long post was about how everyone should get vaccinated and that the current surge is much worse than the winter surge and the age group he is seeing admitted to his hospital for Covid is more in the 20-50 range and unvaccinated, the vaccinated people he is seeing with Covid are the old and frail.

 

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16 minutes ago, Doug B said:


Have to ask @dawgtrails to be sure ... but I read the "40%" here as something his dad's doctor said to his dad given his dad's specific health situation. Not a general 40% for everyone.

 

Sinovac, the Chinese shot, is 40% effective (yes, I know that isn't what he's talking about).  China is going to have lockdowns for years with their shot.

Anyway, I haven't heard specific numbers of effectiveness for folks in his dad's situation.  For those folks I'd hope that a booster is considered, as preliminary evidence does show that a third shot helps.  And we have lots of shots about to expire.

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2 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:
14 minutes ago, Doug B said:

A week or two or three of being miserably sick at home. A week or two or three of being miserably sick in the hospital. Long COVID symptoms. Etc.

But these are three things that the vaccines are incredibly good at preventing. 


IMHO, until Delta burns out ... the vaccines are not quite "incredibly good", especially for those who were most at risk before vaccines.

Before Delta, back in May and the first half of June? You're right on. But the ground has shifted under our feet.

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The GOP has released a report concluding by a preponderance of the evidence that the virus originated in the Wuhan lab.  No surprise there - something that I've thought since this whole thing started.  Combine the genetic evidence with the location of outbreak and the work that lab was doing and it becomes likely.  Add in the flamethrower approach to the coverup the Chinese engaged in and it's virtually certain.

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9 minutes ago, Doug B said:


Strike that section if you care to -- I don't know that specific percentage, and it wasn't the lynchpin of my response. It's certainly non-zero, and trends with age and infirmity.

It was kind of a gotcha question as there is nothing definitive these days in regards to covid. 

I'm doing research to figure out the right path for me and it is clear we as a country are not all on the same page with this stuff.  Which irks me when Biden is out there talking Vaccine mandates and telling people if they get the shot, they won't get Covid. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Biden is out there talking Vaccine mandates and telling people if they get the shot, they won't get Covid


Has he said that in the last week? If so, he's a mile off.

I give anyone a pass for saying that back in, say, May. At the time, the data looked that way.

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8 minutes ago, Sand said:

The GOP has released a report concluding by a preponderance of the evidence that the virus originated in the Wuhan lab.  No surprise there - something that I've thought since this whole thing started.  Combine the genetic evidence with the location of outbreak and the work that lab was doing and it becomes likely.  Add in the flamethrower approach to the coverup the Chinese engaged in and it's virtually certain.

Taxpayer funded?

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