Max Power
Footballguy
I had some questions along these lines...
Is the delta variant the only one that can breakthrough or can one of the other strains cause a breakthrough?
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Government Response To The Coronavirus (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter James Daulton
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Is the delta variant the only one that can breakthrough or can one of the other strains cause a breakthrough?
sho nuff
Footballguy
Meanwhile TN House Speaker threatens special session if school districts mandate masks or close due to spread.Gov. Asa Hutchinson (R-AR) says he regrets signing law banning local mask mandates, as COVID cases quickly rise in his state.
“In hindsight, I wish that had not become law,” said Hutchinson, who has asked lawmakers to allow school districts to adopt mask mandates.
oops. Sorry.
https://www.newschannel5.com/news/house-speaker-says-hell-call-special-session-if-school-districts-mandate-masks
So I guess less government intrusion means more...rather than allowing school districts to govern their schools as they see fit...he wants oversight from the state legislature to tell them how to operate when it comes to safety of their students in this manner.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
its way too early to know - what is said today about covid variants will very likely change tomorrow. Very few facts are know, lots of guesses
and now the Lambda variant and then we start wondering hmmm
https://www.newsweek.com/2021/08/13/doomsday-covid-variant-worse-delta-lambda-may-coming-scientists-say-1615874.html
Stealthycat
Footballguy
IIRC around 400 total under 18 have died from covid this entire time and almost all had pre-existing conditions
under 18 are the LEAST impacted by covid virus as far as being sick
look back to 2009
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2009/12/cdc-sharply-raises-h1n1-case-estimates-kids-hit-hard
In an online report, the CDC estimated there have been 16 million cases in children up through age 17, leading to 71,000 hospitalizations and 1,090 deaths.
wow - and did Obama's administration lock the nation down? mandatory masks? mass hysteria ?
what a dramatic response from then to now ... now granted, covid had been attributed to far more deaths, but as far as under 18 years old ? radically different response
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Pretty much a joke. Anyone who bothered to apply for aid had all their rent paid. Evicting someone is a public health crisis but 20k capacity events are awesome. Courts got sucker by the CDC.
The long term good news is that typically variants and mutation are beneficial to the virus and they don't want to kill the host. They want the host to live and spread the virus. So over the long-term covid should tamper itself down a bit if it follows the typical path.
That being said there is nothing stopping it from producing a variant that is 10x more deadly. That's just genetic chance.
Opening up and being unvaccinated is going to really extend this whole thing
That being said there is nothing stopping it from producing a variant that is 10x more deadly. That's just genetic chance.
Opening up and being unvaccinated is going to really extend this whole thing
Max Power
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
No way to know really. It's rare though as the evolution should be to live symbiotically with the host to increase spread. If a virus kills the host in 12 hours it essentially kills itself.
Good start here
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-0690-4
Max Power
Footballguy
Good article thanks.
I just don't want to see us all go down a path where we change how we fundamentally live on earth over something that has a fraction of a percentage chance of ever happening.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
It is not a real argument to say that the state government trumping a local government is more government intervention.
The ultimate result is school staying open, which is what the less government folks would have advocated for.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Still baffling to me (not really) that those who constantly rail against one-size-fits-all policy mandates from the federal government fully support one-size-fits-all policy mandate restrictions from state governments.
Covid as it stands, if we were to be unvaccinated, would absolutely destroy the first world and it's economy. Without protections you are looking at death rate in the over 60 of over 5%. Covid long haul cases make up almost 25% of all cases.
https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-020-09826-8
https://health.ucdavis.edu/health-news/newsroom/studies-show-long-haul-covid-19-afflicts-1-in-4-covid-19-patients-regardless-of-severity/2021/03
https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-is-hundreds-of-times-more-deadly-for-people-over-60-than-people-under-40-145510
Can you imagine even 10% of the cases requiring hospital care or disability. It would completely overwhelm every system in the first world. It would absolutely destroy the economic foundation of every country.
And keep in mind that these numbers would occur ever year. It's not that we would just run through it once and all be fine.
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It doesn't sound like anyone is proposing to close the schools. They are just hoping to contain the spread by wearing masks.
In fact without a mask mandate there is much greater chance the school will have to close
sho nuff
Footballguy
IMO that is some nice spin of Sexton wanting more control over local issues. His further comments on the matter are about concerning as well.
And why should the legislature decide if a school stays open over the local government?
Doug B
Footballguy
Forget the school-closing part. Why does the Tenn legislature need to weigh in on masking at the local district or even the individual school level?
Dickies
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
I'll say it again, Operation Warp Speed was an amazing achievement for the Trump Administration.
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
Sand
Footballguy
Lawsuit alleging the CDC violated the 5th Amendment Takings Clause. And, if that is upheld (and it should be), then there will certainly be 3rd Amendment violations in there, as well.The CDC expanded its eviction moratorium until October 3. Ugh.
The basis of our government is the rule of law and protection of private property. This has made a shambles of both, to the detriment of us all.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
And this is the baffling part of the leadership of the Republican party. You would thought they would have been encouraging people to get vaccinated from the start.
Max Power
Footballguy
I didn't even know about the global vaccine shortage. Now it seems extra silly the US is buying up more vaccines for possible booster doses and beginning to mandate it to people who don't want it. Other (poor) countries are struggling to vaccinate their most vulnerable people.
Max Power
Footballguy
I'm pretty sure the leaders of the republican party have been encouraging vaccines from the start.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
a Republican President got the emergency vaccines started so yes, vaccines have been bi-partisan all along
Dickies
Footballguy
I agree, but if you really feel this way why are you so hesitant to get vaccinated? If this was some half-assed attempt at a vaccine and it doesn’t work, then I wouldn’t think rushing to get it produced would be a good thing.
Dickies
Footballguy
If by this you mean getting the shots themselves then sowing doubt by questioning their side effects to their constituents, then yes, I agree with you.
Max Power
Footballguy
Biden and Harris told me to be skeptical of a rushed vaccine.
But in all seriousness, I'm not in the risk group and I want all the information first. I have my goals of FDA approval or Novavax, but that's just me.
Max Power
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
The Football Freak
Footballguy
The Lambda variant is showing some signs of vaccine resistance in the lab. It’s early studies, so certainly not The Science as of yet. I’m not thrilled with the thoughts on antibodies, either, but the logic makes sense in relation to the Delta, Delta+, and Lambda variants. I hope they are wrong.
Reuters news round-up
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
All strains are capable of breaking through the vaccines. That includes alpha. We've known that from the very beginning. Nobody who knows what they're talking about has ever claimed that breakthrough infections are literally impossible.
The vaccines greatly reduce your chances of becoming infected with covid. They also reduce your chances of becoming symptomatic if infected, they reduce your chances of hospitalization if you become symptomatic, and they reduce your chances to death if hospitalized. But none of those probabilities is zero.
For me personally, vaccination seems to knock the risk of delta covid-19 down to "everyday background risk" that I'm not going to worry about, but as these threads have shown, different people have different tolerances for risk.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Republican politicians have not been nearly as vocal or consistent in recommending vaccinations. Trump, for example, is the only living ex-POTUS who did not participate in the PSAs encouraging vaccination. DeSantis, for example, has fought the cruise lines attempts to impose vaccine mandates. DeSantis also signed legislation banning local governments and private businesses from requiring proof of vaccination. Many GOP governors are just coming around over the last few weeks, but even so, are not being as blunt and forceful about it as Democrat governors and leaders.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Presumably in their minds to right a wrong. I could ask you why does a district have to weigh in on what an individual child wears on their face? Why cant teachers and students just decide for themselves if they want to show up?
I wasnt addressing the meat of the topic, just the attempt at calling out non existent flip flopping. I see this argument a lot about "big government"
I was just pointing out that the gotcha that they think they have when they bring it up doesnt exist.
In simplest form...
Government tells citizen A they have to do something. Citizen A says no way I wont do that. Takes it to court, wins and doesnt have to do it.
It is completely phony to argue that said person is in favor of bigger government because they brought in a different body to stand up for original position. They arent being inconsistent or favoring big gov.
Max Power
Footballguy
This was an informative article, but I'm not a fan of some of the wording. It's a tough line to walk where we need to caution people, but not scare them.
also the first sentence...
I posted that a couple days and it was met with a lot of skepticism. Is this now considered to be the case or is it still evolving science?
Jackstraw
Footballguy
Absolutely struggling to get my dad a hospital bed for non Covid related issue right now. Unfortunately people’s personal choices regarding Covid are roosting In my back yard. I’m over it w these people.
Tough to tell but I’d guess that breakthroughs were happening but never to viral levels to create any meaningful symptoms that would prompt someone to get tested or to be able to spread to others. Likely only going to find the cases in people who randomly tested frequently.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Because my deciding my child should wear a mask is all well and good. But we know for a fact that my child being vaccinated and wearing a mask is great...my child being vaccinated and wearing a mask plus other kids wearing a mask is better.
Schools and districts decide what kids wear to school, what vaccinations they are required to have...why is a mask that much different?
Its a gotcha because its ridiculous for them to be legislating that they are somehow better at handling this than individual school districts are in this case and the threats of special sessions is ridiculous IMO (which he doesn't even hide is a way to push "school choice/vouchers"). He wants more state government oversight vs local governments handling their business. When he is doing so based mostly on politics vs public health.
Max Power
Footballguy
Correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm wrong often... but aren't mutations generally considered more transmittable, but less deadly? I remember hearing that near the start of this whole COVID thing. The data is now showing delta is less deadly and we're thanking the vaccine, but wasn't that supposed to be the case regardless?
If someone passes from COIVD today, do we know what strain caused it? If I get tested for COVID, can they tell me which strain I have?
Speaking of risk I saw this headline and thought it was an interesting article.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/08/04/poll-vaccinated-more-concerned-than-unvaccinated-covid-variant/5467066001/
Max Power
Footballguy
They have always encouraged vaccines. That was the initial claim. Desantis can encourage vaccines while also fighting for people's rights to choose. Those aren't mutually exclusive ideas.
Trump is constantly talking up the vaccine achievement, so I'm not sure what PSA he turned down. Was he offered one and declined to do one?
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Well unfortunately that's sort of where we landed as a society. You've got a group of unvaccinated people who are letting it rip, and a group of vaccinated people who are sitting six feet apart double-masked. Neither group is behaving rationally IMO, but the second group is just being harmlessly silly as long as they don't force their views on others. The first group is filling up hospital beds.
The Football Freak
Footballguy
Completely agreed on the wording. I like the information in the round-up, but some of the content was presented too starkly and definitively. As I said, I hope the talk on quality of antibodies is just wrong, or misunderstood at this early stage. I really only passed it along for the early Lambda study. This virus is novel, so I take nearly all info I read with a grain of salt.
That is definitely still evolving science, in regards to vaccinated vs unvaccinated spread. I believe the FFA thread is discussing that Wisconsin study, and Nate Silver’s issues with the data. I do not think it will be the same level of spread, simply because of how the vaccinated immune system will deal with these virions building in your nose and throat. They won’t be there as long as those without the vaccine.
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Max Power
Footballguy
So along those lines... what are we doing? The vaccinated aren't at much of a risk. The unvax'd are the ones dying from this and its pretty clearly their choice to not be vaccinated at this point.
The CDC stopped tracking data on the mild and asymptomatic breakthrough cases, so the testing of people showing no symptoms doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If you're sick stay home. That seems like an easy rule to live by.
You can say this about any malady. People's personal choices to smoke. People's personal choices regarding the food they eating causing them to be obese, have heart issues, diabetes, high blood pressure. People's personal choices regarding alcohol. Im over it with these people.
Jackstraw
Footballguy
He has literally ordered private owned businesses that they could not require vaccines or even masks for entry into their own businesses. If that ain’t working against vaccines and for team Covid I don’t know what is.
jm192
Footballguy
You're doing a great job of finding vaccinated people who tested positive for COVID.
Now show me the 600,000 dead that also got the vaccine.
Jackstraw
Footballguy
Jackstraw
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Someone could. But your heart issues, diabetes, etc don't effect the health of the community.
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