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Government Response To The Coronavirus (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter James Daulton
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Nugget
Footballguy
I'm going to reach out on Monday and try to get one scheduled. Had my 2nd Pfizer shot back in late February.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
That’s an interesting link and well reasoned on the surface, but there are flaws in his argument. 1. Hospitalization rate is quite a bit lower than 10% amongst doubly vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infection. 2. Infection, hospitalizations and symptomatic illness are not uniformly distributed across the vaccinated population. 3. Vaccine supply is not unlimited.
While I have no problem with everyone getting a booster eventually, I also think it’s reasonable to roll it out to the highest risk groups first, as more data is collected.
Not sure how we’ve concluded economists and laypeople are better qualified to determine dosing interval than vaccinologists, public health officials and clinicians, either. While individuals should certainly have ultimate control over their medical decisions, that doesn’t give them the freedom to ignore evolving standards of medical care.
rockaction
Footballguy
Because the plutocrats at the WHO and the "bioethics" crowd at the FDA and CDC have proven themselves unworthy of impartially collecting and reading data unless it serves the agency's goals, which do not necessarily serve the goals of the populace of the country, a populace that should be the ultimate and final check on any agency or government decision.
Do you understand that? In all of your diatribes here, you have not understood one iota of the criticism of "public health" as a subsection of the politically motivated executive branch and as a discipline beholden to politics rather than effect, a discipline rife with unelected officials rather than elected ones.
You and the cohorts you love have operated without checks for far too long. That's what the populace is saying. That's what I'm saying. Time to bring the death panels back to political realities rather than utilitarian utopian delusions of grandeur.
That you don't get this bespeaks the arrogance and typical myopia of your discipline to discipline itself in its intellectual reaches and excesses.
Physician, they say, heal thyself. Would it were so that "public health" advocates did the same!
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Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Ignoring the irony of you categorizing my posts as diatribes, or anyone acting arrogant, really, I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Are there libertarian bioethicists?
rockaction
Footballguy
You didn't ignore it at all and saw fit to passively-aggressively comment on it. Like a death panel sentencing somebody to death at the executive board level.
An inability to direct discourse and an unaccountability to boot. Perfect for the passively-aggressive arrogant.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yes. Thomas Szasz, who pointed out the medicalization of political issues long ago. The Medicalization Of Everyday Life was a book printed in 2007, but IIRC, was a long time in print before that. Szasz wrote constantly about public health and was very much in favor of freedom for the individual against the backdrop of both the punitive state w/r/t mental health and the proponents of "public health," writ large.
His work, while it didn't age well w/r/t to schizophrenia, is widely regarded as libertarian bioethics, yes.
But your snark is only, as always, only matched by your ignorance of the existence of relevant things in the equation that you wish to pass off as true.
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The Z Machine
Footballguy
It wasn't snark (this time). I was genuinely interested. Once again, you've read me incorrectly.
rockaction
Footballguy
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
I have no idea what you’re talking about, and think you’re reading too much into my comments.
To be clear, despite their blemishes, I trust public health officials to interpret data far better than laypeople with little scientific training. I also trust them better than Nobel prize-winning economists. And as far as I can tell, delaying the booster for healthy, younger adults poses little risk, both individually and collectively. It’s hardly a death sentence.
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Terminalxylem
Footballguy
the rover
Footballguy
But the FDA isn't recommending it. Didn't you just say that was great? You're paying attention to them now, right?. If you want a booster so bad go get one. Nobody is stopping you.
Stick to "rocket science"
Yes. I aggree with the FDA. You dont? You're behind on the science again it appears.
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rockaction
Footballguy
Because if there's one thing Nobel-winning economists aren't, it's good with data. Perhaps he's giving you an instructional manual to follow the actual data instead of the policy directives behind the vaccine distribution that stem from "vaccine equity" and vaccination of the Third World.
rockaction
Footballguy
I mean, that statement is remarkable.
"I trust public health officials to interpret data...better than Nobel prize-winning economists."
Stay in your lane, xylem. Stay in your lane.
"I trust public health officials to interpret data...better than Nobel prize-winning economists."
Stay in your lane, xylem. Stay in your lane.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Figured you'd pounce on that. Nonetheless, I'll stick with trusting healthcare experts to formulate pandemic policy, over appealing to the authority of someone who works well with hypothetical datasets, but has no training in the context of those numbers.
It's kinda like expecting an athlete to excel in any sport, purely because they have good reflexes. Sure, there are Bo Jacksons in the world, but I'll take a team professional bowlers to roll more strikes, even if there's an occasional gutter ball.
Staying in one's lane is exactly what I'm advocating - let people who understand medicine and public health make decisions applicable to those fields. Hubris is believing smart people from any walk of life can outthink those trained in a specific discipline.
From what I gather, you haven't even fully reviewed the data, yet are apoplectic that political concerns have trumped actual scientific uncertainty around boosters. And then you lash out at multiple posters for being arrogant and uninformed?!?
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I'm nearly 100% certain that our entire response to the pandemic would have been significantly better if Paul Romer had been in charge of it. At a minimum, we would not have made obvious errors like putting all of our eggs in one particular test and yanking the AZ vaccine off the market. The reason why I say that so confidently is that people like Romer (not sure about Romer personally, but I know his orbit) were pretty much unanimous in pointing out these errors at the time that health experts were making them. Then again, who knows, we might have made a whole different set of mistakes.
Edit: To clarify, by "in charge" I mean "is making decisions about policy." Obviously pandemic management is an interdisciplinary endeavor. A person like Romer needs advisors who are experts in virology, for example, to provide scientific information. But our policy decisions would have been better if they were made by people who are used to working with data and thinking about tradeoffs.
Edit: To clarify, by "in charge" I mean "is making decisions about policy." Obviously pandemic management is an interdisciplinary endeavor. A person like Romer needs advisors who are experts in virology, for example, to provide scientific information. But our policy decisions would have been better if they were made by people who are used to working with data and thinking about tradeoffs.
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The Z Machine
Footballguy
What makes you think that the public health professionals that were setting policy were not used to dealing with data and making tradeoffs? Because they made mistakes?
Look, I'm not saying that the decisions made during the course of the pandemic were good ones or that huge errors weren't made, but as you said it's difficult to know if some other set of experts were directing policy that some other egregious missteps would not have been made.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Nugget
Footballguy
6-8 months for CoVid boosters until the rate of spread drops to a reasonable level. Annual Flu shots.
Nugget
Footballguy
The people in the US would not have followed his advice. His two biggest suggestions were multiple CoVid tests per month and aggressive contact tracing. Privacy concerns would have shot this down. Will try to find a link to his positions from last year.
Romer on Twitter - April 2020
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
Nugget
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Rich Conway
Footballguy
The U.N. is ignoring local NYC Covid mandates:
https://apnews.com/article/united-nations-general-assembly-health-russia-coronavirus-pandemic-europe-1645d82caf4f41bfe5e1f31e616d45e8
Rules for thee, not for me.......
https://apnews.com/article/united-nations-general-assembly-health-russia-coronavirus-pandemic-europe-1645d82caf4f41bfe5e1f31e616d45e8
Rules for thee, not for me.......
Stealthycat
Footballguy
isn't that what we've seen this entire time ? Pelosi and her hair deal, Newsom and his dinners, Obama and his parties ..... Meta thing with AOC last week
say on thing and do another - typical
shadrap
Footballguy
that is what hacks people off & causes distrust in government. Force these mandates & they don't follow them.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Who cares? It's hard to trust the entities trying to set rules for us when they don't follow them themselves. it doesn't matter if there's some type of exemption. This is a pandemic killing a lot of people. If you want ME to take it seriously, you should too.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I seriously don't think NYC could enforce this mandate on the UN even if it wanted to. That's Rich's point, and I think he's probably right.
There are lots of good examples out there of mayors and governors flaunting their own mandates. I would stick with those -- this one is a reach and I say that as someone who's sympathetic to the argument you're making.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Sure. And billionaire businessmen are really well suited for US presidency, as they’re used to managing both people and money.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
SARS-CoV-2 mutates more slowly than influenza, and doesn’t exchange/reassort structural genes between species like the flu. So hopefully the booster interval won’t be shorter than flu.
Agree we just need to get the viral population to a reasonable level. But that’s gonna take years (decades?) on a global scale.
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The Commish
Footballguy
When did the UN try to force covid related things on us? 
the rover
Footballguy
it's a joint effort of them, George Soros, Bill Gates and Colonel Sanders.When did the UN try to force covid related things on us?
Nugget
Footballguy
Our favorite politician, Kris Kobach, will be headlining an anti-vax rally in suburban KC today.
Kansas Reflector Link
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Romer is an academic first and foremost, like all the people I mentioned. Those folks do move in business and policy-making circles, but that's because they've risen to the top of a discipline that intersects with those areas. They're still academics.
sho nuff
Footballguy
the moops
Footballguy
How do you get all the way down to 1-3 months considering he had his second shot 7 months ago and flu shots are an annual thing?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I was asking a question - trying to determine just what limits/extents people would be willing to go to. Would people go every month for a shot and pay $50 ? Or would that be too much? Every 3 months as long as its free?
That was all, just curious as to lines people will draw, its fascinating to see the reactions to a virus fracture the USA even more than it already is.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
https://nypost.com/2021/09/19/no-masks-at-2021-emmys-twitter-lashes-out-at-maskless-celebs/
it appears covid virus is no longer an issue
amazing how a pandemic changes when a celebrity/politician wants to get their hair done, have a nice dinner, a party or an awards shows huh ?
it appears covid virus is no longer an issue
amazing how a pandemic changes when a celebrity/politician wants to get their hair done, have a nice dinner, a party or an awards shows huh ?
Mile High
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I'm sure this particular event wouldn't have happened last year, when we were stuck in the pre-vaccination stage of the pandemic. But of course, the nature of the pandemic did actually change when vaccines became widely available. Assuming that a large majority of folks in attendance were vaccinated, there's no reason not to run an awards show as usual. If we can pack 100K people into a football stadium, this is fine too.
In fact, in the same way that it would be really helpful if more right-wing folks got vaccinated and encouraged other right-wingers to do the same, it would also be helpful if Hollywood celebrities would encourage people in blue states to snap out of it and get back on their bicycles.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
that the little people working hourly wages have to wear them but Hollywood elite don't ?
https://twitter.com/therealmissjo/status/1439795038263906304
but if kids in school has to wear masks so should Hollywood
https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/COVID-19/K-12-Guidance-2021-22-School-Year.aspx
https://twitter.com/therealmissjo/status/1439795038263906304
but if kids in school has to wear masks so should Hollywood
https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/COVID-19/K-12-Guidance-2021-22-School-Year.aspx
Mile High
Footballguy
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