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Government Response To The Coronavirus


James Daulton

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Just now, timschochet said:

Agreed but it’s a public response, not a media response. My point is that the media is reflecting public fears, not shaping them. 

Couldn't disagree more. The public is moving on.  The media keeps pulling them back in. 

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6 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Depends on the goals and what data is driving decisions. Travel bans are absolutely effective for reducing spread(at least in a certain time window) We don't need to look any further than New Zealand to know that this is true. 

The argument against travel bans is that they fail in the long run because eventually the disease gets out and wins. 

But in the event of a feared more deadly virus, obviously that extra time could be very valuable. 

I don't believe Omicron is a new super version of this virus, but it is obviously possible. If it is possible, then the best course of action would be a way to give us time to figure that out and not lock everything down in the process. 

A temporary travel ban on ground zero is far better than full scale mask mandates and shutting down schools. 

Trying to anticipate how people will act morally has caused enough trouble. 

 

South Africa probably isn't ground zero though.  They're just the folks who noticed this variant first, because they do a good job with this sort of thing.  It's already in other countries, very likely including the US, and we have no idea (that I know of) where it originated.

More generally, though, the US isn't New Zealand.  We're not going to shut our borders.  Which means that shutting down travel from one particular country or one particular region of the world is pointless.  If omicron isn't here already, it will be soon.  Maybe travel bans buy us a little time, but it does so at the expense of telling other countries that should be very cautious about sharing their local information with the scientific community.

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2 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

South Africa probably isn't ground zero though.  They're just the folks who noticed this variant first, because they do a good job with this sort of thing.  It's already in other countries, very likely including the US, and we have no idea (that I know of) where it originated.

More generally, though, the US isn't New Zealand.  We're not going to shut our borders.  Which means that shutting down travel from one particular country or one particular region of the world is pointless.  If omicron isn't here already, it will be soon.  Maybe travel bans buy us a little time, but it does so at the expense of telling other countries that should be very cautious about sharing their local information with the scientific community.

Moral of the story is be the first to find a variant and be prepared to be punished.

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1 minute ago, djmich said:

That's not great. I wonder if this is the issue in other poorer countries in Africa as well, I think SA actually has one of the higher vax rates even though it isn't great. Assisting in education, messaging about the vax in these areas would be helpful but that does get into some murky territory I suppose.

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1 hour ago, The General said:

We were locked away before the shot...so less deaths via a disease spread by human contact. More vaxed people are dying because more people have shots and we are out and about. Without the shots numbers would be much higher and people who govern would be forced to do things about it.

 

we were not locked away - there was a shutdown what, 8-9 months before the shots were widely available ? but even then people still congregated and so forth

you got the shot, you SHOULD be able to go out and about, that's the entire reason to get the shot !! 

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

I’m scared of the possibility that the shot I got won’t protect me against omicron. And I’m also concerned that the shot I got will be less effective due to all of those who resist vaccination

 

you will be scared forever then because (A) the shot isn't good protection anyway and (B) there will also be variants and your shots will wear off or not have potency against the new variants etc

I didn't want the shot, wasn't scared, got the shot, still aint scared 

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1 minute ago, Stealthycat said:

 

you got the shot, you SHOULD be able to go out and about, that's the entire reason to get the shot !! 

That is part of the reason. The major reason wasn't so that I could go to the mall or see a movie though. The single major motivating factor to get the shot when I did (mid February) was to help prevent thousands of people from dying every single day. Why do you continually fail to recognize the compassion that 100's of millions of people have for their neighbors and friends and foes

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2 minutes ago, the moops said:

That is part of the reason. The major reason wasn't so that I could go to the mall or see a movie though. The single major motivating factor to get the shot when I did (mid February) was to help prevent thousands of people from dying every single day. Why do you continually fail to recognize the compassion that 100's of millions of people have for their neighbors and friends and foes

 

and thousands died every single day - you prevented nothing and I know that's the Govt campaign ... but they lied

i got the shot weeks back because I was threated with my job if I didn't - and I haven't prevented anything because i (like unvaccinated people) can get covid and spread it all around at anytime

I can also get covid and die

 

the shots don't prevent that - more and more we're seeing proof of that fact

 

 

 

Edited by Stealthycat
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1 minute ago, the moops said:

That is part of the reason. The major reason wasn't so that I could go to the mall or see a movie though. The single major motivating factor to get the shot when I did (mid February) was to help prevent thousands of people from dying every single day. Why do you continually fail to recognize the compassion that 100's of millions of people have for their neighbors and friends and foes

 

Most people are compassionate.  But it's not their first motivation in most cases.  That's why we marvel at people like a Pat Tillman who didn't just talk the talk but walked the walk.  How many of us would have quit a lucrative career in our prime to do what he did?  Not many.  The reality is that most people who got the jab, especially early, did so to try to bring normalcy back to their lives.  Now, that stance would recognize that bringing normalcy back to their lives would require bringing infection/death rates of others down to manageable levels.  But thinking that most people's primary motivation was those other people would be incorrect.

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Just now, Stealthycat said:

we were not locked away - there was a shutdown what, 8-9 months before the shots were widely available ? but even then people still congregated and so forth

you got the shot, you SHOULD be able to go out and about, that's the entire reason to get the shot !! 

Travel, vacations, concerts, attending games, etc are all opening because of the vaccine. Take a look at airport throughput before and after vaccine - "people congregating and so forth" versus well over doubling the daily travelers from previous year isn't really the same thing.

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3 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Because you wouldn't be punished if you covered it up? 

Because the reward or aggressively finding and sharing information is isolation.  I understand why, but in this case it seems like SA was quickly ostracized with little information and that can have unintended consequences.

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2 hours ago, Rich Conway said:

Democrats say dumb things all the time.  Biden says dumb things practically daily.  But selectively edited videos cutting out parts of sentences aren't the way to prove it, especially in response to a request for quotes in context.

Ok then show us the missing context?

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1 hour ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Just yesterday, a certain poster took offense when I said that he was discouraging people from getting vaccinated.  That same poster is quite active this morning.  

I was going to point out that four pages back he wanted you to go back and find posts where is is contributing to people not getting vaccinated, but has dozens of posts since then doing just that. 

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4 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

This simply isn’t true.  Please stop repeating falsehoods.

 

I don't think reports of more and more vaccinated people dying and hospitalized is strengthening the " shots keep people safe"  argument do you ?

13 minutes ago, Dickies said:

I was going to point out that four pages back he wanted you to go back and find posts where is is contributing to people not getting vaccinated, but has dozens of posts since then doing just that. 

 

still not - get the shot if you want, or two of them or 10 of them

but if you think you're protected from covid by getting the shots i think you've believed something that isn't true

 

 

 

 

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Just now, Stealthycat said:

 

I don't think reports of more and more vaccinated people dying and hospitalized is strengthening the " shots keep people safe"  argument do you ?

 

still not - get the shot if you want, or two of them or 10 of them

but if you think you're protected from covid by getting the shots i think you've believed something that isn't true

 

 

 

 

Once again, please stop spreading misinformation.

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8 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

This simply isn’t true.  Please stop repeating falsehoods.

SC’s stance on the vaccine is akin to saying that you might as well drink and drive because you can still get in a car crash while sober. It’s a really dumb take. 

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1 minute ago, Dickies said:

SC’s stance on the vaccine is akin to saying that you might as well drink and drive because you can still get in a car crash while sober. It’s a really dumb take. 

 

no, its like saying you made a group of people wear green shirts and none of them got a DUI the next week because they all wore green shirts

what you didn't mention, is most of them are underage and don't drive and the others are in church groups and they don't drink either

 

its unbelievable that we have 30 million people that wasn't going to get covid bad anyway being factored in to the whole "they got their shots and have not got covid bad" argument

 

do you see what I'm saying? for me personally the shot has done NOTHING but made my sick for 72 hours ... I was 99.99% not going to get covid anyway, nobody can say the shot did ANYTHING for me

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32 minutes ago, djmich said:

Because the reward or aggressively finding and sharing information is isolation.  I understand why, but in this case it seems like SA was quickly ostracized with little information and that can have unintended consequences.

Sill looking for an answer to whether UK was similarly ostracized with Alpha or India with Delta.

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2 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

for me personally the shot has done NOTHING but made my sick for 72 hours ... I was 99.99% not going to get covid anyway, nobody can say the shot did ANYTHING for me

Ok, I’ll take the bait.  Please excuse the question, because I don’t have your personal health history bookmarked.    Why were you 99.99% not going to get Covid?

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look, I know my questions on it all flies in the face of liberal media and what the Govt is pumping out and it has all along

I never pretended to be a lemming

I questioned a lot of what was told early on, the "science" of surface cleaning and masks etc.and I said pretty much all along being healthy and strong was the most important thing

 

we know now obesity is now a key factor, as is age and health - and that people who got the shot are more and more every day adding numbers to those infected and dead (even with the way its counted changed)

 

look at the NFL - more people have had covid since mandatory shots and before the NFL was vaccinated - aint that a big boost to how shots stop people from getting covid? no?  hmmm

 

its good to question everything - blindly believing the Govt has a long history of being a bad idea

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6 minutes ago, tonydead said:

 

Sill looking for an answer to whether UK was similarly ostracized with Alpha or India with Delta.

This is the reason they started using the names Alpha and Delta in the first place, rather than UK variant and India variant. I agree that it is counterproductive to ostracize the country where the variant was originally discovered.

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5 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Ok, I’ll take the bait.  Please excuse the question, because I don’t have your personal health history bookmarked.    Why were you 99.99% not going to get Covid?

 

how many 50/51 year old men in the USA? how many have had covid and how many died and what is that % ?

now, also eliminate anyone who was compromised by health issue, obesity, who are not physically fit etc

what's that %?  now inject that I have not been sick in .... geesh I honestly don't remember until i got the covid shot. I never get the flu, a common cold, nothing. I don't take any medicine, no pills, nothing

 

what's my % of getting covid bad do you think?

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1 minute ago, Stealthycat said:

 

how many 50/51 year old men in the USA? how many have had covid and how many died and what is that % ?

now, also eliminate anyone who was compromised by health issue, obesity, who are not physically fit etc

what's that %?  now inject that I have not been sick in .... geesh I honestly don't remember until i got the covid shot. I never get the flu, a common cold, nothing. I don't take any medicine, no pills, nothing

 

what's my % of getting covid bad do you think?

We aren’t talking about “getting Covid bad.”   You said you were “99.99% not getting Covid.” That’s very different than “not getting Covid bad.”

I’m just trying to understand how you knew you would never get it.

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8 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

look, I know my questions on it all flies in the face of liberal media and what the Govt is pumping out and it has all along

I never pretended to be a lemming

I questioned a lot of what was told early on, the "science" of surface cleaning and masks etc.and I said pretty much all along being healthy and strong was the most important thing

 

we know now obesity is now a key factor, as is age and health - and that people who got the shot are more and more every day adding numbers to those infected and dead (even with the way its counted changed)

 

look at the NFL - more people have had covid since mandatory shots and before the NFL was vaccinated - aint that a big boost to how shots stop people from getting covid? no?  hmmm

 

its good to question everything - blindly believing the Govt has a long history of being a bad idea

Why do you think this is?

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2 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

We aren’t talking about “getting Covid bad.”   You said you were “99.99% not getting Covid.” That’s very different than “not getting Covid bad.”

I’m just trying to understand how you knew you would never get it.

 

how many men in the USA around 50 years old? 10 million?

of those 10 million ... how many have been hospitalized and died from covid? Now, remove all those with pre-existing conditions and obese, and how many HEALTHY, good condition, men around 50 years old who never get sick, take no medications ... really are in good solid health ... have gotten covid bad and died?

I'm guessing 0.01 % if even 

 

 

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1 minute ago, The General said:

Why do you think this is?

 

because the virus doesn't care if you've had a shot, its going to infect people .... and young healthy men in the NFL? you'd not even know they had it really if they didn't test all the time

which begs to question why shotted people don't get tested all the time and are allowed back with different rules/restrictions than non-shotted people

virus don't care that you've had the shot

 

if the shots prevented covid - with 98% or more of the NFL being vaccinated, you'd see almost no cases in the NFL of covid. That's not what we see

and if we tested everyday the people who had shots, the numbers would soar ... in many ways, its all about the testing 

 

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3 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

 

how many men in the USA around 50 years old? 10 million?

of those 10 million ... how many have been hospitalized and died from covid? Now, remove all those with pre-existing conditions and obese, and how many HEALTHY, good condition, men around 50 years old who never get sick, take no medications ... really are in good solid health ... have gotten covid bad and died?

I'm guessing 0.01 % if even 

 

 

You still aren’t answering my question.  I completely understand where you are going next with this.  But why can’t you just answer the simple question?

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2 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

 

because the virus doesn't care if you've had a shot, its going to infect people .... and young healthy men in the NFL? you'd not even know they had it really if they didn't test all the time

which begs to question why shotted people don't get tested all the time and are allowed back with different rules/restrictions than non-shotted people

virus don't care that you've had the shot

 

if the shots prevented covid - with 98% or more of the NFL being vaccinated, you'd see almost no cases in the NFL of covid. That's not what we see

and if we tested everyday the people who had shots, the numbers would soar ... in many ways, its all about the testing 

 

Most pro athletes got the J&J vaccine.  It was the least effective (as a single dose vs other vax’s that were a double dose) when developed, and we know it held up even worse against the Delta variant.  It was completely predictable — many on this board talked about it at the time — that pro athletes weren’t highly protected against Delta with just a single dose of J&J.  This isn’t really news.

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13 hours ago, djmich said:

Because the reward or aggressively finding and sharing information is isolation.  I understand why, but in this case it seems like SA was quickly ostracized with little information and that can have unintended consequences.

Not buying time for a massively deadly virus can have pretty poor consequences too. 

They put out info that it could possibly be 5x as contagious. That was very limited and very preliminary, but just sitting back and waiting isn't a real solution when that is a possibility. 

What good is transparency and information if we literally do nothing until we confirm it for ourselves? 

Putting a temporary travel ban in place isn't punishing them for transparency. 

Countries like China are secretive about disease because they are secretive about everything, not because they were afraid of travel bans. 

My preference would be to do nothing. But that would also mean we don't close schools or do any of the other dumb things we do. Since I know those things are on the table I would rather we take a simple step that has almost zero effect on our country and based on what I am always told, being shut down a couple weeks isn't that big of a deal. 

In fact we are always told that New Zealand shutting down travel had like zero effect on them. In fact we are told they fared better. So I mean aren't we just helping South Africa out here? 

 

Eta:Kelsey grammar 

Edited by parasaurolophus
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52 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

 

no, its like saying you made a group of people wear green shirts and none of them got a DUI the next week because they all wore green shirts

what you didn't mention, is most of them are underage and don't drive and the others are in church groups and they don't drink either

 

its unbelievable that we have 30 million people that wasn't going to get covid bad anyway being factored in to the whole "they got their shots and have not got covid bad" argument

 

do you see what I'm saying? for me personally the shot has done NOTHING but made my sick for 72 hours ... I was 99.99% not going to get covid anyway, nobody can say the shot did ANYTHING for me

I don't see what you're saying.  Because none of it makes any sense.

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30 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Most pro athletes got the J&J vaccine.  It was the least effective (as a single dose vs other vax’s that were a double dose) when developed, and we know it held up even worse against the Delta variant.  It was completely predictable — many on this board talked about it at the time — that pro athletes weren’t highly protected against Delta with just a single dose of J&J.  This isn’t really news.

 

now, the narrative has changed to only the shots this or that are good, the other ones not so much ... gotcha

yes, its been discussed but at least you're honest in admitting the shots aren't doing nearly what they were pumped to do

thank you for that 

 

37 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

You still aren’t answering my question.  I completely understand where you are going next with this.  But why can’t you just answer the simple question?

 

you can answer it yourself - do the googling

take the number of 50 year old men in the USA and divide by the number of 50 year old men who've had covid bad/died of covid - what is that % ?

now, take healthy, not obese, never sick, great immune system, don't take medicine, in shape guys 50 years old and how many of those have got covid?

 

find the data - there is your answer and if its more then 0.01 I'll be surprised

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1 hour ago, Philo Beddoe said:

Ok then show us the missing context?

Let's go with the very last clip shown.  It's Kamala Harris saying "but if Donald Trump tell us we should take it, I'm not taking it."  The full quote was, "If the public health professionals, if Dr. [Anthony] Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it. Absolutely, but if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it. I’m not taking it."  What Mr. Ngo posted was highly edited and intended to be deceptive.  The other shots are similarly out of context.

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Just now, Stealthycat said:

 

you can answer it yourself - do the googling

take the number of 50 year old men in the USA and divide by the number of 50 year old men who've had covid bad/died of covid - what is that % ?

now, take healthy, not obese, never sick, great immune system, don't take medicine, in shape guys 50 years old and how many of those have got covid?

 

find the data - there is your answer and if its more then 0.01 I'll be surprised

But we weren’t talking about getting “bad Covid.”   You said 99.99% chance you wouldn’t get Covid — period.  At all.

Now you are changing your tune.  Why?

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10 minutes ago, zoonation said:

I don't see what you're saying.  Because none of it makes any sense.

 

you cannot take someone who in all reality is 0.01 % chance not going to get sick, give them a pill and say "hey, look, they didn't get sick ! "

does THAT make sense ?  because that's what a lot of covid shot statistics are using right now

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Just now, Rich Conway said:

Let's go with the very last clip shown.  It's Kamala Harris saying "but if Donald Trump tell us we should take it, I'm not taking it."  The full quote was, "If the public health professionals, if Dr. [Anthony] Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it. Absolutely, but if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it. I’m not taking it."  What Mr. Ngo posted was highly edited and intended to be deceptive.  The other shots are similarly out of context.

 

Fauci is a liar and PH professionals get it wrong, a lot ... they're not reliable

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1 minute ago, Stealthycat said:

 

now, the narrative has changed to only the shots this or that are good, the other ones not so much ... gotcha

yes, its been discussed but at least you're honest in admitting the shots aren't doing nearly what they were pumped to do

thank you for that

Sure.   I’m an honest person.  My goal isn’t to make up stuff, or to be deceptive.

What can anyone say?  Delta is more easily transmitted.  It has made the vaccines less effective at preventing people from getting Covid.   (They are still effective — just not AS effective)

Here is the catch:  the vaccines are incredibly effective at preventing/minimizing hospitalizations and deaths.   Do they last forever?  Nope.  But nobody ever thought they would last forever.  We always knew (or suspected) that boosters would be needed.  That isn’t news.

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10 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

 

you cannot take someone who in all reality is 0.01 % chance not going to get sick, give them a pill and say "hey, look, they didn't get sick ! "

does THAT make sense ?  because that's what a lot of covid shot statistics are using right now

No.  You continually display a complete lack of understanding about the efficacy of vaccines, why they are important and the overwhelming medical consensus that they are the best option to fight covid. 

You are a fountain of misinformation.

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