Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Government Response To The Coronavirus (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter James Daulton
- Start date
- Status
Dickies
Footballguy
LawFitz
Footballguy
Thanks. Those figures are compelling IMO. And they don't seem materially worse than the waning real-world efficacy data coming in from the mRNA variants. I wish there was more readily available research out there that
a. Tracked and comp'd efficacy figures over extended periods from real-world data, rather than only near-term studies of sample groups, and
b. Tracked comparative reporting of adverse reactions with scope and scale granulation for each vax type.
Why can't we have nice things?
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Our top female politicians are Grandma Pantsuit, Grandma Pow-Wow Chow, and that lady who eats her salad with a comb. Meanwhile, Finland looks at us with bemusement.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Not sure if it's Finland or Iceland, but one of them has recently had a majority female parliament. I think in Finland the heads of the two major political parties are women and most of the ministers of in the cabinet are women.
We don't elect many women here due to the systemic sexism within our institutions.
Oh, and she is quite good looking.
The General
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
Omicron cases have been ‘mild,’ says CDC director, though majority so far are in the vaccinated
Forty-three people in 19 states have tested positive for omicron, according to remarks made to the Associated Press by Dr. Rochelle Walensky, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. About 75% of those cases are in people who are fully vaccinated, and one person has been hospitalized. One-third of those individuals had traveled internationally; one-third had received a booster. The cases so far have been “mild,” she said.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/omicron-cases-have-been-mild-says-cdc-director-though-majority-so-far-are-in-the-vaccinated-11639063116?siteid=yhoof2
Forty-three people in 19 states have tested positive for omicron, according to remarks made to the Associated Press by Dr. Rochelle Walensky, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. About 75% of those cases are in people who are fully vaccinated, and one person has been hospitalized. One-third of those individuals had traveled internationally; one-third had received a booster. The cases so far have been “mild,” she said.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/omicron-cases-have-been-mild-says-cdc-director-though-majority-so-far-are-in-the-vaccinated-11639063116?siteid=yhoof2
Sand
Footballguy
LawFitz
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
This is why they are recommending a second booster and an Omicron variant booster series. I think the average American is looking at them sideways now.
LawFitz
Footballguy
I hope so, but the Vax Mob on this board doesn't help make that hope strong.
Crazy part is Omicron may just be Heaven's cure for this Covidian nightmare we are living - in that it's highly transmissible, but (if early reports prove durable) also very mild in nature and effect. If we all get Omicron in rapid fashion, we can build true and lasting herd immunity to broader Covid, potentially without too many more dire outcomes. Just a pipe dream for now.
Max Power
Footballguy
They did just say Omicron is 4x as transmissible as Delta was and not as severe, so I hope this turns out to be the case as well.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Interesting that all those who are so worried about the long-term effects of the vaccines don't seem at all concerned about potential long-term effects of this new variant.
LawFitz
Footballguy
I believe there are ways to mitigate the chances of Long-Covid. I don't know how to mitigate long-vax injuries. And I'm hoping/praying that Omicron has less occurrence of Long-Covid.
opensourcebeer
Footballguy
I agree that we are all hoping that Omicron has a lower occurrence rate of long Covid.
Are there specific scientific studies you can share related to your comment on ways to mitigate chances of developing long Covid?
Dickies
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
Not sure it would work as vaccinated people still get Covid and are subject to the same Long Covid possibilities, despite if they show lesser degrees of symptoms during the time they are actually infected.
If the vaccine were truly a preventative vaccine as we typically think of when we say vaccine, your suggestion might work but as it stands, being that it is more of a mitigating booster, it wouldn't be the solution.
Dickies
Footballguy
It’s just as good as other vaccines. The difference is that for decades almost everyone willingly accepted the vaccines. We have too many ignorant people consuming propaganda to ever get there with Covid.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
that is not a true statement.
Rabies vaccine prevents rabies. Polio vaccines prevents polio. Rubella, smallpox, mumps, measles, etc, etc. The covid vaccine is not "just as good". It does not prevent. So, you are trying to draw a correlation that it is the same by lumping it into the same category and assuming the same type of result but that is incorrect. They are very different and the covid vaccine is not a vaccine in the same sense.
This is a huge part of why many people are skeptical, along with the absolutely false way it was presented/promoted to the American people when it was rolled out and presented as if people would "just get the shot", we were well on our our way to returning to normal (remember the president's statement in late June re: July 4th timeframe?). To date, we are now a year away from the first shots rolling out and there remains still, to this day, a huge push in some areas to not only NOT be back to normal, but we still can't get the masks off or get back to work.
The difference you refer to is also lacking the rest of the information behind it. Yes, people did, for decades, accept vaccines by and large but the critical information you are leaving out is these vaccines were proven to prevent the associated conditions while this was not. And all these vaccines you refer to had been studied for and average of 7-10 years prior to being introduced to the public and also were approved before release where, again, this was not.
So when you call people ignorant, you are being very rude and, in some ways, are the ignorant one because you don't recognize how shallow and dismissive it is to harshly criticize people for not doing what you see as the only logical conclusion when they are being very diligent in asking extremely important questions regarding introducing something into their body that is permanent.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Also, we're in the midst of a pandemic with massive community spread. That's not something we've seen in our lifetimes for other viruses (except maybe influenza, but that's just a flu, bro).Dickies said:
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Also, breakthrough infections happen for measles, polio, and I think almost every other virus that has a vaccine. Sure some of those vaccines are 99% effective, but if one is exposed to enough virus the potential for breakthrough infection is there. Thankfully, polio hasn't been seen in the Americas for a while so the chances are that you won't get exposed to a virus carrier.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
To be clear, I'm not referring to long-COVID symptoms, but rather to permanent damage to the heart, lungs, and other organs. There's significant reason to believe that COVID survivors can experience these issues that could severely impact them later in life and/or shorten one's lifespan altogether.Rich Conway said:
These possibilities seem much more real and likely than the possibility of long-term damage from the vaccines.
Max Power
Footballguy
The reality is that we don't have all the information yet on either.
If someone is vaccinated and had covid has adverse events 6 months down the road, it seems ok to suggest it's long covid but not a vaccine reaction. This seems disingenuous. There is a reason drug manufacturers do long term studies.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
This is kind of my point. Much of the group complaining that we don't have enough info on potential long-term affects of vaccines seem quite eager for Omicron to rip through society to get everyone natural immunity, completely ignoring the (IMO, much greater) risk of unknown long-term affects from COVID.
The Commish
Footballguy
Sorry....if we had hundreds of millions of people getting infected with rabies or polio or smallpox or anything else on your list, you'd see similar "issues" with those vaccines in real time as you do with COVID vaccines. The reason you have the perception you do of those vaccines is because the state of those viruses compared to that of COVID are COMPLETELY different.Shutout said:
dawgtrails
Footballguy
MMR vaccine has 97% efficacy for measles, 88% mumps, 97% rubella
Polio vaccine protected folks from paralysis in 80-90% of individuals.
Flu vaccine is 40-60% effective
Chickenpox vaccine is a little over 90% effective. But like covid vaccine, prevents severe symptoms
Hep B vaccine has 95% efficacy
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Sure can. Doesn't change my point in any way. Those most concerned about long-term damage from vaccines typically don't seem to have any such concerns about long-term damage from COVID, to the point where many seem to welcome Omicron's initial appearance of increased transmission rate and vaccine-evasiveness and are hoping for it to rip through society.
Max Power
Footballguy
I gotcha, it's a valid criticism. In your opinion the long term effects from covid are greater than long term effects from the vaccine. The truth is unknown right now and it comes down to which side people want to err on.
The troubling thing is that both sides of this coin arent getting equal treatment. Some countries have paused Moderna in young men for safety. In America, not only do we disagree with the safety call, we are doubling down and telling them to get more of it.
Last edited by a moderator:
dawgtrails
Footballguy
No countries have banned Moderna, only paused it until more data is collected
Those countries are Sweden, Denmark, Finland, and Iceland
Those countries are Sweden, Denmark, Finland, and Iceland
Last edited by a moderator:
Max Power
Footballguy
dawgtrails
Footballguy
I think it is still paused. Looks like they started the pause in October. They were conducting studies but I haven't heard of any results being published yet
Doug B
Footballguy
Yep.
Not for ever-mutating influenza ... but those other diseases were beat way back to very low levels because of how many children got vaccinated and how quickly those vaccination efforts took place. It was not because the vaccinations were virtually 100% effective.
A 75-80% effective vaccine is more than enough to drop R-naught levels below 1 -- IF adoption is widespread and swift. Successful vaccination campaigns don't vaccinate individuals ... they vaccinate an entire society.
The Commish
Footballguy
Exactly correct...so if you had 100M people (all vaxed) and exposed them to these viruses, you'd still have millions of people who catch the viruses while vaxxed.
Doug B
Footballguy
Didn't you post in the FFA thread that you appreciated the comparative negative outcome rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated people? If so ... why make the "it can still happen" point?
No one's dealing in absolutes -- we're aware that lowering the likelihood of a bad outcome is not a complete elimination of a bad outcome. Nevertheless ... isn't it self-evident that lower likelihood of bad outcomes is a superior and worthy tack?
Doug B
Footballguy
Yes ... but given say, a 12-month vaccination effort that gets to 90% coverage, those diseases become far less prevalent "in the wild". Time matters.
Also, those "vaccinated + infected" aren't the same as "unvaccinated + infected". For the former: less severe illness, less transmission, shorter durations of infectiousness, etc.
You can get long term covid even if you had asymptomatic covid. That's what Ive hear all along. So it seems to me you can get long term covid if you get asymptomatic covid and are fully vaccinated as well. Not sure what my point in the FFA has to to do with long term covid.
Doug B
Footballguy
Succinctly: The bolded doesn't take into account that your risk of long COVID is reduced when vaccinated.
Risk reduction -- even if you can't get the risk down to zero -- is still worth pursuing.
The Commish
Footballguy
dawgtrails
Footballguy
Correct, you did not say the risk was the same. But you also didn't say they were different.
It's a akin to arguing that you can still die in a car crash if you are wearing a seatbelt. Or can still have a heart attack even if you eat well and exercise regularly.
Doug B
Footballguy
... OK. Your statement has no persuasive point, then. So what if something can happen? Why does it matter?
- Status
Similar threads
