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Has the cure become worse than the disease? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter TripItUp
- Start date
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Can we agree now that the cure is (not was....we're still going through it) definitely worse than the disease? If I am reading the prognostications correctly, had we full on committed to the "guidelines" (masks, sheltering in place and social distancing) country wide, we'd be looking at beginning to climb out of this thing August/Sept (most pessimistic ones said October). Because we chose otherwise we are now trying to understand when the actual peak is going to be...some are guessing September, but not many. Seems like Nov/Dec is the popular guess now.
timschochet
Footballguy
This thread seems rather embarrassing now. (Actually some of us always thought so.)
The Commish
Footballguy
Well, sadly "the cure" is a hodge podge of different states doing different things. I have always been of the belief that if you stay away from each other and wear masks in public things didn't need to be "shut down". I was overruled. The decision became a fight over "hard shutdown for a relatively short amount of time" or "do what you want and hope it goes away addressing shutdowns as necessary". Now the second option has morphed into "do what you want and hope it goes away". The part of "the cure" that is the most ridiculous and absurd is the politicization of wearing a mask followed by the cricket impressions of those not speaking out against states not following the "guidelines" who were so adamant that the states follow the guidelines when they first came out.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
What better way to show our nation's love for small businesses than to hasten their demise by forcing the costs of being open while at least some of their needed customers are staying home.
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
I wonder if the folks in line with the OP of the thread have learned anything, changed their opinions. They should have, if they're reason based, but that's not guaranteed. It's important, because if people can't learn from this, we're going to suffer the results of similar misguided thinking by this segment of the population again.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
I don't believe that you really wonder about this. I think it is more like you just don't like the answer and want desperately to be wrong.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I really do wonder. I think the fact that the people having the mindset expressed in the OP and similar posts aren't saying much right now indicates things may have registered, and lessons may have been learned. How much registration, how well learned remains to be seen. But I could be wrong, and in that case I wouldn't like that answer.
top dog
Footballguy
I don't know.. I have a lot of conservative friends and coworkers. I myself have voted for mostly conservative candidates over the years. Voted for Trump. While I will not be voting for him again this term (just can't take it anymore), my friend and coworkers seem to be digging in even more lately. I'm seeing more conspiracy posts about the virus and the election. It's crazy considering we had an outbreak at one of our facilities in the company and some family members died of covid. I guess sometimes people just refuse to accept reality and have to have an answer they can believe in.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
The brutal irony is that some of these people will die before they will admit they are wrong.
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
There is no “second wave”
more testing = more cases
more “elective“ surgery = more people in the hospital
despite all of the newly discovered cases, the death rate remains flat even a few weeks out from the alleged “surge”
meanwhile when cancer deaths surge of the next five years, millions starve across the globe and suicides skyrocket the denizens of this thread can pat themselves on the back.
more testing = more cases
more “elective“ surgery = more people in the hospital
despite all of the newly discovered cases, the death rate remains flat even a few weeks out from the alleged “surge”
meanwhile when cancer deaths surge of the next five years, millions starve across the globe and suicides skyrocket the denizens of this thread can pat themselves on the back.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
We never finished the first wave.
BS...look at the percent positive...more testing = more cases is ridiculous Trump garbage...the man gets tested more than anyone, by his logic, he should be very sick, no? More opening, more ignoring guidelines...more get togethers...= more cases. More exposure = more cases.
The death rate is not flat...not in hot spot areas at all, neither are hospitalizations.
The rest is complete fear mongering and you know it...please quite ignoring fact, quit ignoring medical experts, quit believing what comes out of Trump.
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
Medical experts have said that suicides have spiked
Medical experts have said that cancer deaths will spike due to lack of early detection due to shutdowns.
Multiple academic studies have said that there is a strong correlation between increased unemployment and increased mortality.
Experts and studies have said that starvation will increase. The UN said we could put 135 million people into starvation globally
These are all facts
medical experts have also said that kids are not really spreaders of this disease so schools should reopen.
moleculo
Footballguy
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
Yea..no other long term concerns to consider...
https://www.newsweek.com/scans-reveal-heart-damage-over-half-covid-19-patients-study-1517293
https://www.newsweek.com/scans-reveal-heart-damage-over-half-covid-19-patients-study-1517293
moleculo
Footballguy
(1) correct. if you don't end the first wave, there can't be a second.
(2) just like more thermometers = more record high temperatures. Maybe we could stop the heat wave (and *gasp* global warming) if we just stopped recording daily temperature?
(3) also, more COVID cases = more people in the hospital.
(4) your data is old. For the last 7 days, fatalities are up by between 87 and 466 compared to the prior day. In aggregate, 1647 more people died in the past 7 days than the previous 7 days.
(5) yes, apparently this is the thread where we complain about water damage from the fire department.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
I believe the first claims of spiked suicides was shown to be false. If you have a credible link to such spikes...that would be appreciated.Sam Quentin said:
I think they have speculated its possible if hospitals remain closed off to some elective things...however, most at this point are open to annual physicals (I had mine in late April during most of the shut down). Not sure there has been more on this as far as predictions lately...you seem to be going off of the most extreme portions/phases of shutdown that is long since over.
Sure...not sure where I disagreed with that possibility...some jobs have come back after furloughs and temporary closings...some may not. This is part of the need for real leadership we are lacking right now.
I believe your starvation is also based on older numbers...care to provide a link...something current would also be good. Also, we seem to have been cutting or wanting to cut foreign aid, are you suggesting we increase foreign aid?
And no...much of what you posted are speculations and informed opinions...but not actually facts...and in your initial you get several facts completely wrong as were pointed out.
Id also take a link to medical experts claiming what you are saying about schools being open. Fauci is stating its important to open them back...but is not saying what you are claiming...he said it is up to local districts based on the numbers in their area. Birx and the CDC also revising guidelines not quite saying what you are about schools reopening...
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/cdc-release-new-safety-guidelines-reopening-schools-n1233187
So which experts are you talking about...again a link would be nice.
Skoo
Footballguy
Actually I'm pretty sure the CDC says the opposite.Sam Quentin said:
Since May, the C.D.C. website has cautioned that full reopening would be “highest risk,” and that in both K-12 and higher education settings, the more people interact, “and the longer that interaction, the higher the risk of Covid-19 spread.” The “lowest risk,” the guidelines say, would be for students and teachers to attend virtual-only classes — an option the administration this week began a full-court press against.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Im going to stop going to the doctor...when I go, he tests for things and finds things. If I don't go, I don't get tested and won't have those things. Isn't that how it works?
Mile High
Footballguy
It worked for years for me. Happily live my life free of any medical problems until I broke my wrist. Damm those doctors who tested me and told me I was a walking time bomb since my blood pressure was sky high. Probably should have gone to my local politician.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
He's likely citing the American Academy of Pediatrics statement on the importance of kids returning to school because of the negative effects of isolation. It's getting passed around conservative circles including the Trump administration. The Academy has since walked back its statement saying that “Returning to school is important for the healthy development and well-being of children, but we must pursue re-opening in a way that is safe for all students, teachers and staff. Science should drive decision-making on safely reopening schools. Public health agencies must make recommendations based on evidence, not politics.”
Here's the original
Here's the updated
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Probably would have prescribed some bleach for the high blood pressure. I heard it kills blood pressure in like a minute.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
If we have increased suicides, it will be due to the virus, not due to the economy.
This is the same false logic that drove the "open up" mentality in the first place.
The economy is going to tank whether we open up or not. People will experience despair whether we open up or not. There's no "either/or" here.
Also, at least one claim about suicides (from a so-called medical expert) turned out to be a hoax.
This is the same false logic that drove the "open up" mentality in the first place.
The economy is going to tank whether we open up or not. People will experience despair whether we open up or not. There's no "either/or" here.
Also, at least one claim about suicides (from a so-called medical expert) turned out to be a hoax.
Props to the National Review for getting the right answer: Coronavirus Prevention Is Not Worse Than the Disease.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Also..instead of then focusing on how we can better handle mental health care....we think the economy fixes all.
Apparently...a capital gains tax holiday is deemed more efficient than mental health care.
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Mile High
Footballguy
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Wrong. This talking point expired when deaths caught up, like anyone who even halfway paid attention knew was coming. These type of opinions where people have their head in the sand are ruining the country. Not just the response, the actual country.Sam Quentin said:
Gr00vus
Footballguy
There are a lot of people in this country who've become very comfortable making assertions about things they are ignorant of. We all suffer as a result.
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Sam Quentin
Footballguy
That article is long on opinion but short on any actual math. They cite a grand total of one study on the “saved” side of the scale and don’t provide any data for the other side of the scale. Terrible.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
If you have high blood pressure, maybe you could, I don’t know if anyone has thought of this because I have a big brain, but maybe you can take a needle and poke it into the skin, maybe let some blood out, relieve some of that pressure. You’ll look into that, right?
Mile High
Footballguy
Damm. Guess I should have went to a politician. My stupid doctor wants me to take 2 pills a day for the rest of my life. Crazy advice since now my blood pressure is fine.
dkp993
Footballguy
It’s particularly effective when paired with fluorescent lights specifically those with a black light filter.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Well...you know, except when it comes to actual data about flat death rates and all the other bogus claims he made...then no.
That's a total of one more study than you have cited as evidence of any of the "facts" you assert on this page, many of which are flat out wrong and despite being asked to back up your claims.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
So, long story short we let it become a political debate and it turned into a save the economy vs. knock out the virus debate. Like a lot of people predicted, it turns out we need to do both, and in order to get the economy back on track we need to do enough with the virus so it's safe to do so. That 2-4 weeks of lockdown to a level that we saw around the globe that a lot of people were saying wasn't doable here is probably looking pretty good right now as we are staring at states shutting down again and our kids maybe not being able to go back to school in person 4 months into this thing.
But hey - we got a few weeks of going to the bars and clubs out of it!
But hey - we got a few weeks of going to the bars and clubs out of it!
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