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Dynasty & Redraft: RB Antonio Gibson, Washington


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36 minutes ago, SproutDaddy said:

He's still learning the RB position.  It seems he gets better every week.  He's only a rookie.

My point is he kind of lucked into the 2 TD's. JD still seeing a lot of looks. Don't get me wrong, I am using him as my #2, I just don't have a lot of confidence. 

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https://twitter.com/BenStandig/status/1306342615940562945?s=19 From the offensive coordinator:   On Antonio Gibson: "His role will continue to grow" On Peyton Barber snap coun

In Canton. Yes.  

God Bless Mr Gibson, won $1875 on Draftkings thanks to him. 

On 11/16/2020 at 8:50 AM, Payne said:

Having watched the game, I didn't feel good about what I saw. I plan to sell off these 2 TD's in hopes others didn't see it too. 

What specifically did you see that was not to your liking?

It looks like he had another good game statistically. Gibson is currently RB 10 in fantasy.

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5 hours ago, Helaire-ious said:

What is he worth in PPR dynasty? 2021 1st?

I can only say how I value him as a dynasty owner who drafted him this year at 2.12. I wouldn't trade him for a 1.12 or a late 2021 first because I don't think that is likely to lead to a better RB prospect. He has proven he can play in the NFL and is performing as a RB10 in my 1 pt ppr league this year.   Basically he is doing as well as CEH and significantly better than any other rookie RB this year.  I would want at least a mid-first round pick like a 1.05.

He is probably a better target if he is owned by a team that is positioning for the playoffs this year and you would do better if you could offer a veteran with a good playoff schedule who is going to give the other owner's team a better chance to win this year. 

Trading him for picks is going to be tough because he is young with upside and proven ability so why would a rebuilding team trade him?

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1 hour ago, az_prof said:

I can only say how I value him as a dynasty owner who drafted him this year at 2.12. I wouldn't trade him for a 1.12 or a late 2021 first because I don't think that is likely to lead to a better RB prospect. He has proven he can play in the NFL and is performing as a RB10 in my 1 pt ppr league this year.   Basically he is doing as well as CEH and significantly better than any other rookie RB this year.  I would want at least a mid-first round pick like a 1.05.

He is probably a better target if he is owned by a team that is positioning for the playoffs this year and you would do better if you could offer a veteran with a good playoff schedule who is going to give the other owner's team a better chance to win this year. 

Trading him for picks is going to be tough because he is young with upside and proven ability so why would a rebuilding team trade him?

Did you forget about Robinson?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Biabreakable said:

He is currently top 10 in scoring.

There are some guys injured. Who would you rank ahead of him?

He is 12 in my dynasty league...Mike Davis is 11...Mike Davis... Anyway...
Again, dynasty so a current injury does not count for what I've been talking about

I know I listed more than 10 below, but ya get my point. To be fair, Gibson is in my top 20, probably top 15. 1st rounder for a guy that loses so many touches & catches to JD McKissic?! Not today for me.

CMC
Zeke
Kamara
Barkley
Cook
Henry
Robinson
CEH
Jacobs
Chubb
Swift
M. Sanders
 

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56 minutes ago, Helaire-ious said:

He is 12 in my dynasty league...Mike Davis is 11...Mike Davis... Anyway...
Again, dynasty so a current injury does not count for what I've been talking about

I know I listed more than 10 below, but ya get my point. To be fair, Gibson is in my top 20, probably top 15. 1st rounder for a guy that loses so many touches & catches to JD McKissic?! Not today for me.

CMC
Zeke
Kamara
Barkley
Cook
Henry
Robinson
CEH
Jacobs
Chubb
Swift
M. Sanders
 

I would add Mixon, Ekeler, and Jones. Had Hunt not resigned with Cleveland I would go with him too.

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1 hour ago, Helaire-ious said:

He is 12 in my dynasty league...Mike Davis is 11...Mike Davis... Anyway...
Again, dynasty so a current injury does not count for what I've been talking about

I know I listed more than 10 below, but ya get my point. To be fair, Gibson is in my top 20, probably top 15. 1st rounder for a guy that loses so many touches & catches to JD McKissic?! Not today for me.

CMC
Zeke
Kamara
Barkley
Cook
Henry
Robinson
CEH
Jacobs
Chubb
Swift
M. Sanders
 

He’s a really raw rookie running back! Putting up a borderline rb1 season on a bad team. People would really value a random 1 over a young guy performing already in the NFL?!? That’s insanity to me. 

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51 minutes ago, Cobbler1 said:

He’s a really raw rookie running back! Putting up a borderline rb1 season on a bad team. People would really value a random 1 over a young guy performing already in the NFL?!? That’s insanity to me. 

Agreed, with this caveat. It depends on the NFL draft. We saw CEH's stock explode because of the team that picked him. Nothing to stop any of the high-powered offenses that need a RB next year from doing the same.

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7 hours ago, rockaction said:

Agreed, with this caveat. It depends on the NFL draft. We saw CEH's stock explode because of the team that picked him. Nothing to stop any of the high-powered offenses that need a RB next year from doing the same.

Right there will be a player or 2 like that and they’ll go in the top 5 or higher like CEH did. If you can get a top 5 pick I’d consider it. But without that assurance I’m holding the young, elite athlete, top 12 ish (for this year) Rb.

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Gibson has solidified my RB2 slot after failed attempts by higher prized draft picks such as Taylor and Akers.  The over reliance on McKissic has been frustrating, but so has trying to figure out all the other 2 and 3-headed backfields this year.  That being said, Bryce Love's return from IR could potentially complicate things down the stretch.  

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Rookie RB Antonio Gibson over the first six games this year:

  • 64 carries or 10.6 carries per game 
  • 243 rush yards or 40.5 yards per game
  • 3 TDs or .5 per game
  • 19 receptions or 3.1 per game
  • 147 receiving yards or 24.5 per game 

Over the last four games:

  • 55 carries or 13.75 per game
  • 287 rush yards or 71.75 yards per game
  • 5 TDs or 1.25 per game
  • 8 receptions or 2 per game
  • 65 receiving yards or 16.25 per game

His carry numbers have increased and they look sustainable.  The yards per game probably is not sustainable at his current average per carry which over the last four games is at 5.2 per rush attempt that is unless they give him a couple more carries per game which is possible.  The TD clip over the last four games is high and is not sustainable but with his background as a receiver I think he has a lot of room to improve on his receiving totals.

He's a rookie still learning the position so he should improve his overall game.  I think he is a solid #2 RB going next year and right now if he keeps up his scoring streak he is contributing numbers of a 'decent' #1 fantasy back.

He's got a nice matchup against Dallas but the ankle is a concern on a short week.

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20 hours ago, Helaire-ious said:

He is 12 in my dynasty league...Mike Davis is 11...Mike Davis... Anyway...
Again, dynasty so a current injury does not count for what I've been talking about

I know I listed more than 10 below, but ya get my point. To be fair, Gibson is in my top 20, probably top 15. 1st rounder for a guy that loses so many touches & catches to JD McKissic?! Not today for me.

CMC
Zeke
Kamara
Barkley
Cook
Henry
Robinson
CEH
Jacobs
Chubb
Swift
M. Sanders
 

Yeah I am likely taking all of the guys you list ahead of Gibson.

Thanks for putting a list out there. My comment about him being top 10 is just where he is at right now in most scoring systems.

There are a few you dont list who are in this conversation as well.

For the 2021 NFL draft Travis Etienne or Cubba Hubbard. If one of them is a 1st round pick in the 2021 draft maybe you consider them ahead of Gibson  but if they are they will also be top picks. So unless you get a high pick you won't be getting them.

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As far as the McKissic taking targets from Gibson right now I don't think that is something that will continue next season. They want Gibson to be a 3 down RB like CMC. As I said back in the summer I thought Gibson would take a year or two to develop as a receiver, if he were playing that position exclusively. He does have experience as a receiver already though and as a RB I think he will improve that part of his game in time. If Washington wanted to have a 2 down RB with a 3rd down RB coming in they could have just kept Peterson. They want Gibson to be their do everything RB in time. 

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17 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

As far as the McKissic taking targets from Gibson right now I don't think that is something that will continue next season. They want Gibson to be a 3 down RB like CMC. As I said back in the summer I thought Gibson would take a year or two to develop as a receiver, if he were playing that position exclusively. He does have experience as a receiver already though and as a RB I think he will improve that part of his game in time. If Washington wanted to have a 2 down RB with a 3rd down RB coming in they could have just kept Peterson. They want Gibson to be their do everything RB in time. 

But how can he develop if they won't pass the ball to him?

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6 minutes ago, Helaire-ious said:

But how can he develop if they won't pass the ball to him?

The coach has stated on several occasions that he's taking his time developing Gibson.

Gotta let the game slow down for him before moving on to other parts of the game.

Basically, one step at a time. learn the running aspect, help him understand the playbook(running plays), find the holes/read defenses, 'vision'... etc...   Then move onto pass blocking, again, reading the defense, gotta see who you're gonna block, the best way to block..... etc....        Then, once you have all that down, you can move onto being pass catching RB.

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17 minutes ago, Helaire-ious said:

But how can he develop if they won't pass the ball to him?

Practice.

He doesn't have a lot of carries in college. So having him work on being a runner right now is the priority. Filling up his plate with other things may take some of his focus away from that. There is only so much time in a practice. Its something they will have more time to work on in the offseason, when everything isn't so focused on game planning for the next opponent.

Once Gibson earns their confidence in pass pro and running routes they will start using him in that way more. I am not sure if that is happening this year. I do think it will happen eventually.

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19 hours ago, Helaire-ious said:

But how can he develop if they won't pass the ball to him?

He has 27 receptions through 11 games as a rookie. If that represents anything close to a receiving floor, and there is room for growth in terms of pass blocking and route running, then sign me up. Oh wait I already did everywhere. I really think expecting more catches than this for a guy that has taken over but is still learning the the running role, is asking too much for a rookie in COVID 2020 on the WFT. That said, he *is* getting some targets. If we're only concerned with ROS I can't imagine Alex Smith should make anyone feel less about Gibson's PPR prosepcts.

ETA Correction 10 games not 11

Edited by barackdhouse
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3 hours ago, kutta said:

Gibson seems like one of those guys you can get in the third round in redrafts next year, but could be a top 3-5 RB if he becomes a true three down back.

Yeah perhaps so. Especially if they have some scrub at QB again, as they are likely to do. Alex Smith probably props Gibson's value a little if he is the expected starter. Gotta figure they go a different direction though. 

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5 minutes ago, SproutDaddy said:

Why anyone would want to trade this guy for a random 1st is beyond me.  He's still learning the position.   

 

Admittedly, I'm a U of Memphis alumni.

I doubt anyone has been trading him for that. If so, that's not smart.

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1 minute ago, DocHolliday said:

So glad I dropped him weeks ago.   Gibson owners should be really happy right now.  He’s playing well and is getting the touches.  

I tried to get him in dynasty after last week. No dice. I shoulda put a sad emoji on my post. I own him nowhere. Looks the part for sure. 

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2 minutes ago, DocHolliday said:

So glad I dropped him weeks ago.   Gibson owners should be really happy right now.  He’s playing well and is getting the touches.  

And was involved early in the passing game.   McKissic owners didn't like that.

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Just based on some of the comments in the game thread and also the past week or so talking about Gibson and what his value might be moving forward, it seems that people still doubt his ability.

I am not really clear on what specifically peoples criticisms of Gibson are? One theme seems to be that Gibson doesn't pass the eye test. Anyone could have done well with that blocking.

I think Gibson could benefit from more leverage by running with lower pad level especially before making contact with a defender. I think he is still learning how to read defenses and his blocking. I think he looked improved from when I watched him earlier on in the season. There were still a lot of dead runs. Dallas has a lot of speed to stop the toss plays and other runs outside better than they are stopping runs up the middle. I do think the many outside runs in the first half perhaps set up some of the inside runs later on.

While nothing special as a receiver in this game still good to see him have 5 receptions. That was one of the concerns about Gibson, that he wasn't getting the lions share of the receiving opportunity. We know what CMC can do in this offense. It was a step in the right direction, there is still a lot of untapped upside here.

Edited by Biabreakable
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40 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

Just based on some of the comments in the game thread and also the past week or so talking about Gibson and what his value might be moving forward, it seems that people still doubt his ability.

I am not really clear on what specifically peoples criticisms of Gibson are? One theme seems to be that Gibson doesn't pass the eye test. Anyone could have done well with that blocking.

I think Gibson could benefit from more leverage by running with lower pad level especially before making contact with a defender. I think he is still learning how to read defenses and his blocking. I think he looked improved from when I watched him earlier on in the season. There were still a lot of dead runs. Dallas has a lot of speed to stop the toss plays and other runs outside better than they are stopping runs up the middle. I do think the many outside runs in the first half perhaps set up some of the inside runs later on.

While nothing special as a receiver in this game still good to see him have 5 receptions. That was one of the concerns about Gibson, that he wasn't getting the lions share of the receiving opportunity. We know what CMC can do in this offense. It was a step in the right direction, there is still a lot of untapped upside here.

Admittedly I probably sound stupid after saying what I did after a big game (not saying I am not stupid). I 100% agree there is room for improvement and that is exciting. I guess when they needed short yardage conversions they seemed to trust their other backs who seemed to be more efficient in decision making in that situation. (I own the guy, want him to awesome). 

I am probably nitpicking. Two of his longer TD runs where gimmies but to his credit he took advantage. I should probably just stop typing.....he did help me this week bigtime and hope he continues to show.

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On 9/20/2020 at 11:14 AM, Hot Sauce Guy said:
On 9/20/2020 at 10:40 AM, Bracie Smathers said:

I think for some reason you are missing some special things and I don't know why but he's definitely not 'meh' in my estimation.  I see some special things.

Maybe you’re more optimistic about what you’re seeing. 

:shrug: 

Time will tell. It’s a small sample size. But at the end of the day we both watched a video that was 11 touches for under 40 rushing yards with 2 receptions that went nowhere. And not to be the “if not for that long run” guy, but if not for that long run where he tripped over a teammate in the open field, he would have had closer to 2 YPC than the 4 he had. 

I remain unconvinced. I am not closed minded nor am I making a definitive statement about ROS. But on that video I saw very little to get excited about. 

I keep hearing people saying they aren't impressed with him even though he continues to produce at a top level.

I forgot who I had this conversation with back in September so I wonder if you had changed your mind or not.

I saw some special things.

Antonio Gibson proving traits trump production in draft evaluations

Quote

 

Antonio Gibson played 19 games of college football at Memphis, and only carried the ball 33 times...

...  what got Gibson drafted in the third round of the 2020 NFL draft wasn’t the box score, but the traits he flashed every time he did touch the ball.

Even a closer look at the stat sheet showed what Gibson was capable of with the ball in his hands. He averaged 19 yards per reception at Memphis, and 10 of his 44 career receptions ended up in the end zone. As a runner, the bang for the buck was even more eye-popping, as Gibson averaged 11.2 yards per rushing attempt, scoring four touchdowns on those 33 carries...

 

Go to the link for the full read.

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I love this dude but those two 20+ yard TD runs he had today were just about the easiest pair of 20+ yard TDs any NFL RB will ever have.

It looked like an Alabama RB running through a Mack truck 8 foot wide hole against Southwest Chattanooga A&M State.

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Of course this was the only WFT game I haven't watched this year, but I just watched Gibson's youtube highlights and and I think he finally showed his burst and speed on those two long TD runs to beat the defenders' angles.

Edited by zed2283
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8 hours ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I love this dude but those two 20+ yard TD runs he had today were just about the easiest pair of 20+ yard TDs any NFL RB will ever have.

It looked like an Alabama RB running through a Mack truck 8 foot wide hole against Southwest Chattanooga A&M State.

I dont think Zeke scores on those 2 runs. Not quite that easy. 

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12 hours ago, King of the Jungle said:

Admittedly I probably sound stupid after saying what I did after a big game (not saying I am not stupid). I 100% agree there is room for improvement and that is exciting. I guess when they needed short yardage conversions they seemed to trust their other backs who seemed to be more efficient in decision making in that situation. (I own the guy, want him to awesome). 

I am probably nitpicking. Two of his longer TD runs where gimmies but to his credit he took advantage. I should probably just stop typing.....he did help me this week bigtime and hope he continues to show.

I can see what you were saying. My guess, and hope, is coaching staff gives most carries and touches to him and treat McKissic as fill in for breather breaks. This allow him to get consistent top level production. He has been every bit worth the 8th round pick I spent for him. And it’s dynasty so 🙂

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9 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

I keep hearing people saying they aren't impressed with him even though he continues to produce at a top level.

I forgot who I had this conversation with back in September so I wonder if you had changed your mind or not.

I saw some special things.

Antonio Gibson proving traits trump production in draft evaluations

Go to the link for the full read.

Meh. I saw a Dallas defense that could t stop anything. He looked better than I initially thought (and I’ve come back here & said as much a few weeks ago) but you could drive a freight train through the holes he had last night. Every TD run was untouched busted coverage. 

I still don’t think he’s special. Sorry. 

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