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Hey Guys,

I'm not sure how to say this without sounding heavy handed. Because I suppose the truth is it IS heavy handed. But it's where we are.

And I'd rather be honest and upfront so nobody is surprised.

I told the Moderators this morning: "I'm way out of patience with the guys who refuse to stop trolling. I've got zero problem to start booting people for a month or multiple months that just seem intent on seeing how much they can push."

I know we are criticized, probably not unfairly, for inconsistent moderating. And I'm letting you know up front that's changing too. I've told the moderators we want to be less tolerant of trolling and for what it takes to remove someone from the forum. We're simply running low on patience. 

So if you're suspended, please don't say, "I've seen way worse in the past". Because I'm letting you know right now, that'll likely be true. What would have been just annoying six months ago will likely mean removal now. I'm sorry it's come to that but it's just reality. 

And to be clear:

Most everyone here that's ever been suspended for trolling does the :shrug: and says "That wasn't trolling. THE OTHER guy did something way worse". 

The reality is most everyone here that's been suspended knew exactly what they were doing in trying to get a shot in at the other side. 

Please help us. 

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That's cool.

But keep in mind, the ref always see's the SECOND push. I hope that the response will be viewed within the context of the exchange. I have seen some cases that looked like baiting for a ban of someone with a differing opinion.

Ultimately, it's your pool and you can throw anyone out you want. But the person that finds the BabyRuth may not be the person that introduced the BabyRuth to the pool in the first place. "Spalding, NO!"

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8 minutes ago, BoltBacker said:

That's cool.

But keep in mind, the ref always see's the SECOND push. I hope that the response will be viewed within the context of the exchange. I have seen some cases that looked like baiting for a ban of someone with a differing opinion.

Ultimately, it's your pool and you can throw anyone out you want. But the person that finds the BabyRuth may not be the person that introduced the BabyRuth to the pool in the first place. "Spalding, NO!"

Totally understood.

And all responses stand on their own. Full stop.

If someone says something super lame and you respond with something super lame, both are super lame. And won't be here.

 

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1 minute ago, NewlyRetired said:

I must be reading the wrong threads.  I guess I should be happy about that as I don't see any of this :)

I can easily guess what type of threads are causing this behavior though.....

Well I called an ifriend a name purely joking but obviously the mods didn't know I knew whom I was making fun of..... Collateral damage happens

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hmmmm....is this why my "any functioning adult in 2020" avatar that I've had since it became Hillary vs Donnie in 2016 got removed?  I'm good with it...just thought the timing weird given having it all that time and not specific to one party or the other.

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@Joe Bryant Would having a thread or forum that only moderators can post in listing posts that lead to probation be helpful with a super general write up? I can see it sort of having two major purposes to both inspire confidence that the mods are not biased and make it so people get probated less in the future:

  1. Is moderation biased (I personally don't believe so)? If you can see the people getting probated it might alleviate that level of questioning.
  2. What types of posts lead to probation. Often the post is deleted by the moderator, so most people do not know where the line actually is, and might inadvertently cross it. If people had a continuous list of general examples that lead to probation it might mean people learn how to post better. 
  3. Less importantly - you could be discussing something with someone and not know why they disappear because as far as I know there is no way to see who is probated/banned?

I don't think it would need more than: Person X - Probated X days for bringing up politics in a no politics thread. I don't know if it could be automated or not. I also don't know how many probations are given out to know where it would be 100 and a lot of work to manually do or if it is like 3 and pretty easy.

It always runs into interpretation though, where there are threads right now where I feel like the thread was purposefully designed to troll purely on phrasing/intent, but the topic itself is discussable. 

Edited by huthut
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Some people are very sarcastic by nature while others do not like it and take it very personally.

Have friends like this where something very innocuous said over text and non personal can blow up into an insane exchange.  Luckily I don't have many friends like this but gotta know the audience.

I guess its hard to interpret sometimes if you aren't used to it.  Adds some humor to otherwise bland exchanges IMO but not everyone reads it the same way.

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22 minutes ago, Jefferson the Caregiver said:

Feel like there is a fine line to trolling but understand that things get misinterpreted sometimes.

I mean its obvious when its really getting heated and people are really ratcheting it up vs just busting balls like you would with teammates in the locker room.

 

From what Ive seen, the "uncoolness" is from different sides of the spectrum. In other words, they wouldn't be friends in the real world and certainly arent here. 

 

11 minutes ago, Jefferson the Caregiver said:

Some people are very sarcastic by nature while others do not like it and take it very personally.

Have friends like this where something very innocuous said over text and non personal can blow up into an insane exchange.  Luckily I don't have many friends like this but gotta know the audience.

I guess its hard to interpret sometimes if you aren't used to it.  Adds some humor to otherwise bland exchanges IMO but not everyone reads it the same way.

Almost by definition, sarcasm is no longer tolerated around here. Around these parts, its referred to as "snark". I think the reason has to do with my reply above. 

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46 minutes ago, huthut said:

@Joe Bryant Would having a thread or forum that only moderators can post in listing posts that lead to probation be helpful with a super general write up? I can see it sort of having two major purposes to both inspire confidence that the mods are not biased and make it so people get probated less in the future:

  1. Is moderation biased (I personally don't believe so)? If you can see the people getting probated it might alleviate that level of questioning.
  2. What types of posts lead to probation. Often the post is deleted by the moderator, so most people do not know where the line actually is, and might inadvertently cross it. If people had a continuous list of general examples that lead to probation it might mean people learn how to post better. 
  3. Less importantly - you could be discussing something with someone and not know why they disappear because as far as I know there is no way to see who is probated/banned?

I don't think it would need more than: Person X - Probated X days for bringing up politics in a no politics thread. I don't know if it could be automated or not. I also don't know how many probations are given out to know where it would be 100 and a lot of work to manually do or if it is like 3 and pretty easy.

It always runs into interpretation though, where there are threads right now where I feel like the thread was purposefully designed to troll purely on phrasing/intent, but the topic itself is discussable. 

This.

Problem is, I don't think anyone knows exactly where "the line" is. 

We all stand a better chance of not crossing it if we were all able to see what was considered "going too far".

Might be fun to set up a "dummy" topic for all of us to pretend troll each other and let mods weigh in on each post to let us know if acceptable or not.

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5 minutes ago, Bossman said:

This.

Problem is, I don't think anyone knows exactly where "the line" is. 

We all stand a better chance of not crossing it if we were all able to see what was considered "going too far".

Might be fun to set up a "dummy" topic for all of us to pretend troll each other and let mods weigh in on each post to let us know if acceptable or not.

like a roast?

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1 hour ago, huthut said:

@Joe Bryant Would having a thread or forum that only moderators can post in listing posts that lead to probation be helpful with a super general write up? I can see it sort of having two major purposes to both inspire confidence that the mods are not biased and make it so people get probated less in the future:

  1. Is moderation biased (I personally don't believe so)? If you can see the people getting probated it might alleviate that level of questioning.
  2. What types of posts lead to probation. Often the post is deleted by the moderator, so most people do not know where the line actually is, and might inadvertently cross it. If people had a continuous list of general examples that lead to probation it might mean people learn how to post better. 
  3. Less importantly - you could be discussing something with someone and not know why they disappear because as far as I know there is no way to see who is probated/banned?

I don't think it would need more than: Person X - Probated X days for bringing up politics in a no politics thread. I don't know if it could be automated or not. I also don't know how many probations are given out to know where it would be 100 and a lot of work to manually do or if it is like 3 and pretty easy.

It always runs into interpretation though, where there are threads right now where I feel like the thread was purposefully designed to troll purely on phrasing/intent, but the topic itself is discussable. 

Joe,

This isn't always easy and I appreciate your efforts.

Is it just me or am I the only one that thinks that getting rid of 4-6 posters would alleviate 80% of your headaches/issues?

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5 minutes ago, Bluto Blutarsky said:
15 minutes ago, comfortably numb said:

Joe,

This isn't always easy and I appreciate your efforts.

Is it just me or am I the only one that thinks that getting rid of 4-6 posters would alleviate 80% of your headaches/issues?

:bye: @mr. furley

that might start an ifight between the FFA and the test forum...  ;) 

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3 minutes ago, snogger said:

that might start an ifight between the FFA and the test forum...  ;) 

Leave the Test Forum out of this. It’s the epitome of cool. 

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2 hours ago, eoMMan said:

You might just want to delete the COVID-19 thread then.  The entire thing.

The world would end for a number of folks if that happened

2 hours ago, Brony said:

I'm pretty cool as is.  

But I will try to be extra cool. 

Avatar checks out :thumbup:

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15 hours ago, beer 30 said:

The world would end for a number of folks if that happened or that they were *GASP* wrong about their Stalanist stances and condescending hubris against anyone who dares speak against the groupthink. 

fixed. 

what was once a very constructive and communal thread has morphed into an echo chamber of one sided opinion. 

it's ridiculous. 

Edited by otb_lifer
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Every single problem on the site over the years has in some way been related to politics. 

And yet instead of removing that obvious cancer from the forums entirely (especially when trying to contain it behind a fence did not work), other much more pleasant topics were targeted for removal, ones that caused no issues or disharmony.

This has always been very confusing to me.

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1 hour ago, Cjw_55106 said:

From what Ive seen, the "uncoolness" is from different sides of the spectrum. In other words, they wouldn't be friends in the real world and certainly arent here. 

The uncool part of this post is that so many here wouldn't be friends with people from the other side of the spectrum.

Politics mean way too much to way too many people.  Totally uncool.

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59 minutes ago, NewlyRetired said:

Every single problem on the site over the years has in some way been related to politics. 

And yet instead of removing that obvious cancer from the forums entirely (especially when trying to contain it behind a fence did not work), other much more pleasant topics were targeted for removal, ones that caused no issues or disharmony.

This has always been very confusing to me.

But politics are an undercurrent to a lot of topical subjects on the board today. You can have a discussion and even drift into politics without burning it to the ground but the divisiveness in society today doesn't allow for that. One of our favorite 4-6 posters previously mentioned will come shouting Republican this or Democrat that and you might as well just kill the whole thread.

You need to be able to talk politics at some level without the need for constant babysitting. Trying to shut all that into it's own forum is at least an attempt to be able to shut the door when the kids get rowdy and not ruin it for everyone else but unfortunately the door cracks open sometimes.

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On 4/30/2020 at 9:55 AM, Joe Bryant said:

Totally understood.

And all responses stand on their own. Full stop.

If someone says something super lame and you respond with something super lame, both are super lame. And won't be here.

 

Baloney.  Everybody knows who they are.  Fixing it takes diligence by the moderators, not mindlessly throwing around bans.  Your direction is part of the problem.  When you come down heavy-handed with no sense or care for context you just make the problem worse.  The trolls don’t care.  You ban them and they come back with a different name.  The people they do care just leave because nobody really gives a ####, including the moderators.

If you don’t have time to control your forum, put your big boy pants on and shut it down.  It’s perfectly understandable.  We all have better things to do than babysit.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, jonessed said:

Baloney.  Everybody knows who they are.  Fixing it takes diligence by the moderators, not mindlessly throwing around bans.  Your direction is part of the problem.  When you come down heavy-handed with no sense or care for context you just make the problem worse.  The trolls don’t care.  You ban them and they come back with a different name.  The people they do care just leave because nobody really gives a ####, including the moderators.

If you don’t have time to control your forum, put your big boy pants on and shut it down.  It’s perfectly understandable.  We all have better things to do than babysit.

 

 

 

We stand 100% behind:

Quote

 

All responses stand on their own. Full stop.

If someone says something super lame and you respond with something super lame, both are super lame. And won't be here.

 

It's not "baloney". If you think it is or if you don't think we care, we're not the forum for you. I'm sorry. 

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9 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

 

We stand 100% behind:

It's not "baloney". If you think it is or if you don't think we care, we're not the forum for you. I'm sorry. 

No you don’t.  I’m sure you would like to, but you don’t have the time.

I actually think *you* care.  Your moderators don’t.  It’s a mindless, thankless job.  They go to the first thing reported and ban/no ban.  Nobody wants to wade through piles of garbage for the other super lame comment that started it.

You’re not sorry.  I’m not sorry.  That’s just the way it is.

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13 minutes ago, jonessed said:

Baloney.  Everybody knows who they are.  Fixing it takes diligence by the moderators, not mindlessly throwing around bans.  Your direction is part of the problem.  When you come down heavy-handed with no sense or care for context you just make the problem worse.  The trolls don’t care.  You ban them and they come back with a different name.  The people they do care just leave because nobody really gives a ####, including the moderators.

Buried in this nonsense is a nugget of truth.  Deleting an entire topic for one troll gives that troll power and encouragement.  Grown-ups have better things to do than waste time with a topic that will be entirely gone for no evident reason.  (This is happening to Mr R in a completely different net location after more than ten years of participation.  It sucks.)

You should also bear in mind that people may be more prickly than usual because of the virus issue.

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22 minutes ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

Buried in this nonsense is a nugget of truth.  Deleting an entire topic for one troll gives that troll power and encouragement.  Grown-ups have better things to do than waste time with a topic that will be entirely gone for no evident reason.  (This is happening to Mr R in a completely different net location after more than ten years of participation.  It sucks.)

You should also bear in mind that people may be more prickly than usual because of the virus issue.

Nugget of truth 😆.  That’s my whole point.

Big ban crusades and shutting down topics is capitulating to the trolls.  Moderating a forum takes time and energy.  It’s hard.  Joe can come down as heavy-handed as he likes.  Without serious time investment the result will be the same.  Trolls win.  They’re just winning in a slightly different way.

I’m not saying he and the moderators should invest the time.  Not my call.  I don’t think I would.  I’m just calling a spade a spade :shrug: . 

 

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35 minutes ago, jonessed said:

No you don’t.  I’m sure you would like to, but you don’t have the time.

I actually think *you* care.  Your moderators don’t.  It’s a mindless, thankless job.  They go to the first thing reported and ban/no ban.  Nobody wants to wade through piles of garbage for the other super lame comment that started it.

You’re not sorry.  I’m not sorry.  That’s just the way it is.

Actually you're not calling a spade a spade. You're calling me a liar when I'm telling you how you I feel and you say I don't feel that way.

Please don't do that. 

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39 minutes ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

Buried in this nonsense is a nugget of truth.  Deleting an entire topic for one troll gives that troll power and encouragement.  Grown-ups have better things to do than waste time with a topic that will be entirely gone for no evident reason.  (This is happening to Mr R in a completely different net location after more than ten years of participation.  It sucks.)

You should also bear in mind that people may be more prickly than usual because of the virus issue.

Thanks. Deleting a whole thread because one troll's comments is pretty rare though. That only happens when something is reported so late that a ton of replies are involved in the trolling. Thankfully, that usually doesn't happen here much. 

I agree deleting an entire thread ruined by a troll is giving the win to the troll. Fortunately for us, that doesn't happen much at all. 

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42 minutes ago, Mrs. Rannous said:

 

You should also bear in mind that people may be more prickly than usual because of the virus issue.

100%. Moderators included ;)

That was really the reason for this thread to start with to let folks know the moderators (and me) were wearing thin and trying to let folks know we'd moved the bar a bit. 

Bummed it turned into the guy telling me how I feel but that's the internet. 

All in all, most people have been extra cool. Thanks. 

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