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Why so much unemployment even after the stimulus?


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1 hour ago, beef said:

What are people's thoughts on Trump's EO on $400 unemployment add-on?  From what I'm gathering, Dems were wanting to continue it at $600, GOP consensus seemed to be around $200.  Legality concerns of the EO aside, seems like $400 is a reasonable middle ground compromise.

Tough one for me since unemployment hasn't effected me or my family.  I'm very much sympathetic towards those it has, and the need for a Fed UE bonus.  Also get the other side and not wanting this to be a reward or slow down reopening.  I also get there is a lot more at play here, and still a lot of health concern realated progress is needed to safely reopen.  Of course, I too may be a bit naive on the entire subject.  

Edit, just found the discussion on this in a different thread.

 

I definitely think some assistance needs to be passed. But I'm not convinced increased unemployment benefits is the optimal solution. I think that rent/food vouchers would be a more effective solution. Or move to a UBI.

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17 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

Freeloaders will choose more money over going back to work nearly every time.  

I don't like it.

Sure.  But what about the not freeloaders who can’t go to work due to COVID restrictions or COVID devastated industries?

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14 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

Freeloaders will choose more money over going back to work nearly every time.  

I don't like it.

Are you ok with $200/week proposed by Republicans? In Florida, with the $275 state contribution, that's in the ballpark of a $12/hour full time job.

Or some other mechanism?

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4 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

Are you ok with $200/week proposed by Republicans? In Florida, with the $275 state contribution, that's in the ballpark of a $12/hour full time job.

Or some other mechanism?

I would like it to be just under what people would normally make so that people would have an incentive to get back to work...particularly those that can go back to work with little health risk, which is the vast majority of the people not working IMHO. 

I would support normal, full unemployment benefits for those that were actually laid off.

 

Edited by TripItUp
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Continues to amuse me that people believe "most" or "enough" people are of the freeloader variety and will do nothing thus giving reason not to provide funds to anyone rather than being of the hard working group who wants to make it on their own.  

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17 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

I would like it to be just under what people would normally make so that people would have an incentive to get back to work...particularly those that can go back to work with little health risk, which is the vast majority of the people not working IMHO. 

I would support normal, full unemployment benefits for those that were actually laid off.

 

The leisure industry has the largest number of people affected by COVID layoffs, still down by over 4 million jobs. Many jobs will never come back or take years. Many of these people will have trouble finding equivalent jobs, until the leisure industry returns to normal. In Florida, their normal unemployment compensation is $275/week, equal to about $7 per hour. With tips, many waiters were used to making alot more. These people are used to working hard for their money.

My roommate is a preschool teacher who wants to work, but the preschools in South Florida are in financial limbo, not knowing how many parents will pay or pull their kids out once the school has a case. I think she'll work for a preschool with government funding, Easter Seals and YWCA preschools both made her an offer that's a little below what she made on unemployment.

There are some freeloaders, but most people wanna work, if they can do so safely.

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6 minutes ago, SoBeDad said:

 

There are some freeloaders, but most people wanna work, if they can do so safely.

I disagree with the characterization that there are "some freeloaders" and also the implication that people can't get back to work safely.  The virus health impact has been overstated by the liberal media IMHO.

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5 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

I disagree with the characterization that there are "some freeloaders" and also the implication that people can't get back to work safely.  The virus health impact has been overstated by the liberal media IMHO.

What media is reporting 160,000 dead? Seems like that is a bit of a health impact. I bet amputations are on the upswing as well, but I haven’t tried to research that, more of a “gut feeling.”

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8 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

What media is reporting 160,000 dead? Seems like that is a bit of a health impact. I bet amputations are on the upswing as well, but I haven’t tried to research that, more of a “gut feeling.”

Nobody is happy about the 160K dead, but young healthy people are not dying from this.   

Time to get back to work and in schools.  

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38 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

I disagree with the characterization that there are "some freeloaders" and also the implication that people can't get back to work safely.  The virus health impact has been overstated by the liberal media IMHO.

What exactly do you base this disagreement on?  What he's outlined is exactly what is happening here in Florida. Even the governor acknowledges it. 

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2 minutes ago, The Commish said:

What exactly do you base this disagreement on?  What he's outlined is exactly what is happening here in Florida. Even the governor acknowledges it. 

mortality rate of young, healthy people extremely low.

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10 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

mortality rate of young, healthy people extremely low.

Sorry.... meant the freeloader thing you're doing. I think the great back to work stuff is taking care of itself. Didn't we add almost 2M jobs this last report?

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13 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Sorry.... meant the freeloader thing you're doing. I think the great back to work stuff is taking care of itself. Didn't we add almost 2M jobs this last report?

1.8 million according to the WSJ.

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1 hour ago, TripItUp said:

I disagree with the characterization that there are "some freeloaders" and also the implication that people can't get back to work safely.  The virus health impact has been overstated by the liberal media IMHO.

And the rest of the world?  Because the liberal media in America's "messaging" is on par with what you see in every other industrialized nation.

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4 hours ago, beef said:

What are people's thoughts on Trump's EO on $400 unemployment add-on?  From what I'm gathering, Dems were wanting to continue it at $600, GOP consensus seemed to be around $200.  Legality concerns of the EO aside, seems like $400 is a reasonable middle ground compromise.

Tough one for me since unemployment hasn't effected me or my family.  I'm very much sympathetic towards those it has, and the need for a Fed UE bonus.  Also get the other side and not wanting this to be a reward or slow down reopening.  I also get there is a lot more at play here, and still a lot of health concern realated progress is needed to safely reopen.  Of course, I too may be a bit naive on the entire subject.  

Edit, just found the discussion on this in a different thread.

I’m glad that unemployed people will get some extra help, they need it. Un-enhanced UI is ridiculously stingy — low wage earners in some states are having to live off of <$100/week now that the CARES act bonuses expired. That’s insane.

The problems I have with the EO are this:

-Instead of funding our existing federal unemployment program, it creates an *entirely new program* which may take a while to implement, slowing the delivery of benefits to those who need it. If I had to guess, I’d say they did this out of legal necessity (can’t fund the existing program by EO) but I really don’t know. Not a lawyer.

-Most estimates are that the ~$45bn in this EO will run out in 4-5 weeks, then we’re back at square one.

-The mandatory contribution for states. States’ finances are in a terrible spot right now; the federal government needs to be giving them money instead of the other way around. Some states may oppose kicking in the $100 for political reasons, as @Nugget noted. Not sure how that plays out.

-We took that $45bn from the FEMA disaster relief fund just as we approach hurricane season. Helping the unemployed is an extremely urgent matter, but it’s easy to see how this backfires.

 

Overall, this is not a substitute for actual legislation. Congress needs to renew these benefits and ideally tie their expiration to improvements in objective economic indicators. It’s a disgrace that stimulus talks are dead.

 

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1 hour ago, The Commish said:

Continues to amuse me that people believe "most" or "enough" people are of the freeloader variety and will do nothing thus giving reason not to provide funds to anyone rather than being of the hard working group who wants to make it on their own.  

My college buddy owns a restaurant tavern in Traverse City MI.  Right now he can`t get any help as during lockdown his staff went on unemployment and are getting around 950.00 a week for not working, more than double what many made. They just say they don`t feel safe.  I am sure they will feel a little safer when the UE runs out but right now many service places can`t get help.

Right now he has  bus boys waiting tables along with him and his wife.

Edited by Da Guru
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1 hour ago, TripItUp said:

Nobody is happy about the 160K dead, but young healthy people are not dying from this.   

Time to get back to work and in schools.  

What isn’t open right now that you think should be? What goods and services are you not able to access that really impact your life? I don’t know where you are, CA I think? Not really up to date on what they are doing, but I don’t find life impacted much other than masks and can’t do early grocery shopping a few days a week because it’s set aside for at risk/old/first responders.

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Just now, Snorkelson said:

What isn’t open right now that you think should be? What goods and services are you not able to access that really impact your life? I

I don't care about my life.  I care about the well being of the country.

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34 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

My college buddy owns a restaurant tavern in Traverse City MI.  Right now he can`t get any help as during lockdown his staff went on unemployment and are getting around 950.00 a week for not working, more than double what many made. They just say they don`t feel safe.  I am sure they will feel a little safer when the UE runs out but right now many service places can`t get help.

Right now he has  bus boys waiting tables along with him and his wife.

Has he offered more money to people as an incentive to come back?

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Just now, TripItUp said:

I don't care about my life.  I care about the well being of the country.

Ok, so what isn’t open that should be for the well being of the country?  Stadiums? Movie theaters? What’s closed that is important?

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Just now, Snorkelson said:

Ok, so what isn’t open that should be for the well being of the country?  Stadiums? Movie theaters? What’s closed that is important?

I would open everything except mass gatherings(stadiums, concerts etc.)

I would also have strict mask enforcement.

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35 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

My college buddy owns a restaurant tavern in Traverse City MI.  Right now he can`t get any help as during lockdown his staff went on unemployment and are getting around 950.00 a week for not working, more than double what many made. They just say they don`t feel safe.  I am sure they will feel a little safer when the UE runs out but right now many service places can`t get help.

Right now he has  bus boys waiting tables along with him and his wife.

How many people simply went back to where they are from because there wasn’t any work? That’s the problem I’ve heard up north; normal seasonal workers that come from downstate never moved up or left in march.

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1 hour ago, Da Guru said:

My college buddy owns a restaurant tavern in Traverse City MI.  Right now he can`t get any help as during lockdown his staff went on unemployment and are getting around 950.00 a week for not working, more than double what many made. They just say they don`t feel safe.  I am sure they will feel a little safer when the UE runs out but right now many service places can`t get help.

Right now he has  bus boys waiting tables along with him and his wife.

There's no question this exists.   That wasn't my point. It's the vast quantity aspect. By the way.... their money has run out no?

We can throw anecdotes all day. That isn't going to get us anywhere IMO. That's why i asked the follow up that i did

Edited by The Commish
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33 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

nope, not here in CA...largest economy in the US...and not close.

Statewide, the following are closed:

Bars, brewpubs, breweries, and pubs, both indoors and outdoors, unless they are offering sit-down, outdoor dine-in meals. Alcohol can only be sold in the same transaction as a meal.

Public events and gatherings, like live audience sports 

Convention centers

Theme parks and festivals

Indoor playgrounds, like bounce centers, ball pits and laser tag

Saunas and steam rooms

Recreational team sports

Statewide, the following must close indoor operations:

Dine-in restaurants

Wineries and tasting rooms

Movie theaters

Family entertainment centers

Zoos and museums

Cardrooms
 

What should be open here considering the state of covid in CA?

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46 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

Statewide, the following are closed:

Bars, brewpubs, breweries, and pubs, both indoors and outdoors, unless they are offering sit-down, outdoor dine-in meals. Alcohol can only be sold in the same transaction as a meal.

Public events and gatherings, like live audience sports 

Convention centers

Theme parks and festivals

Indoor playgrounds, like bounce centers, ball pits and laser tag

Saunas and steam rooms

Recreational team sports

Statewide, the following must close indoor operations:

Dine-in restaurants

Wineries and tasting rooms

Movie theaters

Family entertainment centers

Zoos and museums

Cardrooms
 

What should be open here considering the state of covid in CA?

I think I've made my position clear.

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  • 3 months later...

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-trump-administration-allowed-aviation-companies-to-take-bailout-funds-and-lay-off-workers-says-house-report?

Quote

 

In the spring, Congress created a program to save aviation worker jobs. Then the Trump administration undermined that program by granting hundreds of millions of dollars in relief to aviation companies for jobs they’d already largely eliminated, according to a House report released Friday.

As a result, thousands of workers at airline caterers and other contractors are out of work while their employers received public funds that were supposed to be passed to workers. What’s more, at least two companies that received hundreds of millions in taxpayer funds restored full pay to management, the report found.

 

 

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On 8/9/2020 at 3:47 PM, TripItUp said:
On 8/9/2020 at 3:43 PM, SoBeDad said:

Are you ok with $200/week proposed by Republicans? In Florida, with the $275 state contribution, that's in the ballpark of a $12/hour full time job.

Or some other mechanism?

I would like it to be just under what people would normally make so that people would have an incentive to get back to work...particularly those that can go back to work with little health risk, which is the vast majority of the people not working IMHO. 

I would support normal, full unemployment benefits for those that were actually laid off.

I like this.  Sorta like Short Term Disability paying out 60-80% of your normal wage

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On 8/9/2020 at 4:20 PM, TripItUp said:

I disagree with the characterization that there are "some freeloaders" and also the implication that people can't get back to work safely.  The virus health impact has been overstated by the liberal media IMHO.

Do you still believe this to be correct?

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1 hour ago, Bamboo Bill said:

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-trump-administration-allowed-aviation-companies-to-take-bailout-funds-and-lay-off-workers-says-house-report?

Quote

 

In the spring, Congress created a program to save aviation worker jobs. Then the Trump administration undermined that program by granting hundreds of millions of dollars in relief to aviation companies for jobs they’d already largely eliminated, according to a House report released Friday.

As a result, thousands of workers at airline caterers and other contractors are out of work while their employers received public funds that were supposed to be passed to workers. What’s more, at least two companies that received hundreds of millions in taxpayer funds restored full pay to management, the report found.

 

 

Horrible if true

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10 minutes ago, JAA said:

Do you still believe this to be correct?

Yes, the messaging has been terrible from the beginning.

Our failed approach will end up destroying families and lives unnecessarily, and I'm not talking about covid deaths...300K deaths is a drop in the bucket.

Edited by TripItUp
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1 hour ago, TripItUp said:
1 hour ago, JAA said:

you still believe this to be correct?

Yes, the messaging has been terrible from the beginning.

Our failed approach will end up destroying families and lives unnecessarily, and I'm not talking about covid deaths...300K deaths is a drop in the bucket.

Edited 57 minutes ago by TripItUp

How do you see this playing out?  What should/could we be doing differently?

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On 8/9/2020 at 4:32 PM, caustic said:

-We took that $45bn from the FEMA disaster relief fund just as we approach hurricane season. Helping the unemployed is an extremely urgent matter, but it’s easy to see how this backfires.

Good thing that there weren't many hurricanes or wild fires or other natural disasters this fall. 

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