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Obamagate- AKA ***Official Dishwasher Thread*** (1 Viewer)

@GillianHTurner

#BREAKING:

@AmbassadorRice’s team confirms to #FoxNews that she was directed by White House Counsel to write the Jan 20, 2017 memorandum documenting an Oval Office meeting in which President Obama & National Security officials discussed #MichaelFlynn.
So much for the self memo theory
Huh?

"self memo" means "memo sent to self".

It does not mean "deciding solely by yourself to write a memo".

(Also, you're undercutting your own argument here. If Rice was directed to write the memo, then you've lost the claim that it was done in secret.)

 
Huh?

"self memo" means "memo sent to self".

It does not mean "deciding solely by yourself to write a memo".

(Also, you're undercutting your own argument here. If Rice was directed to write the memo, then you've lost the claim that it was done in secret.)
I dont believe I made the claim it was done in secret. 

 
Sounds like Sally Yates has some questions to answer now.  She left Biden and Rice off the list of people in the room discussing Flynn/Russia in her special council interview.  Why would she lie about that?
I’d think it would be preferable to have them in the room, so if there’s no benefit to it maybe it wasn’t a lie at all. What you referring to, her testimony or 302?

eta - as a counter example consider Trump telling everyone to leave the room when he wanted to talk to Comey.

 
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I’d think it would be preferable to have them in the room, so if there’s no benefit to it maybe it wasn’t a lie at all. What you referring to, her testimony or 302?
Yates' testimony to the special council. When she stated that she was shocked Obama knew about the Flynn Kislyak call before she did.

 
Yates' testimony to the special council. When she stated that she was shocked Obama knew about the Flynn Kislyak call before she did.
I think this is in the Yates 302, not the report.

As an aside, why these transparency geniuses (left and right) can't OCR this stuff I have no idea.

First of all it doesn't exclude Biden or others, it says "members of the Obama administration." It also says the NSC was involved.

You can see the discussions on pages 2-3. Yates doesn't say she was shocked to learn that Obama knew, she says she had no idea what he was talking about, then figured it out. She also said she was "surprised" by the information she was hearing, which I'd say would be a really normal response. 

That whole piece is really consistent with Rice's memo.

 
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I think this is in the Yates 302, not the report.

As an aside, why these transparency geniuses (left and right) can't OCR this stuff I have no idea.

First of all it doesn't exclude Biden or others, it says "members of the Obama administration." It also says the NSC was involved.

You can see the discussions on pages 2-3. Yates doesn't say she was shocked to learn that Obama knew, she says she had no idea what he was talking about, then figured it out. She also said she was "surprised" by the information she was hearing, which I'd say would be a really normal response. 

That whole piece is really consistent with Rice's memo.
It says "Obama dismissed the group and asked Yates and Comey to stay". No mention of Rice or Biden. Why doesnt Yates mention those two?

And I'm not going to debate Surprised vs shocked. I'd say someone who was " so surprised they had trouble processing the information" was shocked. 

Rice's email puts her and Biden in the room, so they are not consistent statements. 

 
Some additional interesting tidbits.

https://twitter.com/Techno_Fog/status/1263199039203561474?s=20

@Techno_Fog

Of course, the Washington Post fails to inform its readers that David O'Neil represents Sally Yates. Sure seems like he's helping advance his client's interests. Perhaps WaPo Editorial Page Editor @hiattf can explain the omission?

@Techno_Fog

To summarize the circus:

Gleeson and O'Neil are in the same firm.

O'Neil represents Yates - who faces serious allegations of misconduct w/r/t Flynn.

Gleeson and O'Neil ask the Court to exceed its authority and sentence Flynn.

Gleeson gets appointed amicus.

 
And I'm not going to debate Surprised vs shocked. I'd say someone who was " so surprised they had trouble processing the information" was shocked. 
That's not the question. The claim you made was that Yates was surprised that Obama had learned of the info before her. That's different from the issue of her being surprised by the info. The former suggests something having been hidden from her or some normal process having been circumvented. That's someone else's supposition you picked up somewhere else.

 
Things get worse when one goes through the Mueller team’s interview notes for then-acting Attorney General Sally Yates and Mary McCord, another DoJ official and both Obama appointees. To the surprise of Yates — who insisted the White House needed to be informed Flynn had misled them, given it put him in a potentially compromising position — Comey repeatedly refused to notify the White House, and the FBI’s reasons for not doing so “morphed” over the course of discussion. Yates and her team were then “flabbergasted,” “dumbfounded,” and “hit the roof” when they learned Comey had sent agents to interview Flynn without informing her, believing it should have been coordinated with the DoJ.

After this, Mueller’s prosecutors coerced Flynn into pleading guilty by bankrupting him and threatening to go after his son, not unlike the treatment visited upon government whistleblowers under the Obama administration. Through it all, there was the fact that Flynn had never actually committed any underlying crime by talking to Kislyak — not to mention the fact that Mueller himself debunked the entire Russiagate conspiracy theory — making his false statements to the FBI technically criminal, but irrelevant.

The backdrop to all of this is the FBI’s staggering misconduct in spying on the Trump campaign in 2016. As last year’s report from the DoJ inspector general revealed, the Bureau repeatedly misrepresented or left out evidence, and even used outright false claims to obtain a FISA warrant to spy on former Trump campaign aide Carter Page, a businessman and sometime-CIA asset with ties to Russia who advocated for business-minded co-operation between the two countries.

In light of all of this, Russiagate looks less like a righteous crusade for truth and justice and more like the typical shenanigans for which the FBI and US government have long been known: prosecutorial overreach, entrapment, and the criminalization of foreign policy dissent. Trump’s grotesqueries have has made it impossible for many liberals to acknowledge this fact. But the fact that the FBI’s misconduct was aimed at a right-wing government this time should be no reason for Democrats to dismiss the magnitude of the scandal.

Collusion Is in the Eye of the Beholder

 
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It says "Obama dismissed the group and asked Yates and Comey to stay". No mention of Rice or Biden. Why doesnt Yates mention those two?

...Rice's email puts her and Biden in the room, so they are not consistent statements. 
Reading on I see your point now. However having more people present is beneficial. And Obama keeping 1, 2, 3, 4, people there, from security, legal and administration, is a good thing. My guess is Yates was doing the interview from the POV of the DOJ, which would be her and Comey. It's hard to think of a less nefarious cauldron stirrer than Joe Biden, sorry.

Again - compare Trump's meeting with Comey, where he sent everyone out the room and just left Comey in with him, not 4 other witnesses from varying departments.

 
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Unfortunately, this isn’t the end of it. As others have pointed out, long before the Mueller report made clear a Trump-Russia conspiracy didn’t actually exist, a number of Obama officials testified to the closed-door committee that they saw no actual evidence for this — only hints that made them suspicious.

Yet that didn’t stop those involved from using their public platforms to fan the flames of conspiracy against the Trump administration. Maybe most outrageous was former DNI Clapper, who despite testifying he’d seen no evidence of Trump-Russia collusion has repeatedly gone on CNN and charged that Trump could be a Russian asset. (Amusingly, for all of Obama’s complaints that Flynn was allowed to get away with “perjury,” it’s Clapper who actually committed that particular crime, lyingto Congress about the scope of government surveillance, which Obama’s DoJ refused to lift a finger about despite demands from members of Congress).

Also deserving of special mention is Rep. Adam Schiff, the Democrat who more than any other pushed the “collusion” storyline, riding it to prominence and political donations. Schiff, long a conduit for military contractors, who entered Congress by fundraising record amounts off the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal, has spent years alleging a grand conspiracy between Trump and the Kremlin despite being told under oath by Obama officials hostile to Trump that they had seen no evidence of such a thing. Unsurprisingly, Schiff, the intelligence committee’s chairman, long resisted the release of the transcripts.

 
Hard to respect an author who suggests there is no evidence of collusion in the Meuller report. 
No it isn't.  That's what Obama officials said in sworn testimony.  That they didn't know of any evidence suggesting Trump was a Russian agent. 

Meanwhile, in the public sphere, they were fanning the flames of a bogus conspiracy theory.  It was incredibly reckless.  Really it was a betrayal of the entire democratic process.  

Looking back on it, it really is an asinine claim that demanded extraordinary evidence to support it.  It didn't exist then, and now it's collapsed to rubble.  A scandal manufactured out of thin air.

 
No it isn't.  That's what Obama officials said in sworn testimony.  That they didn't know of any evidence suggesting Trump was a Russian agent. 

Meanwhile, in the public sphere, they were fanning the flames of a bogus conspiracy theory.  It was incredibly reckless.  Really it was a betrayal of the entire democratic process.  

Looking back on it, it really is an asinine claim that demanded extraordinary evidence to support it.  It didn't exist then, and now it's collapsed to rubble.  A scandal manufactured out of thin air.
And now they hang their hats on perjury and obstruction.  Without evidence of collusion those are empty charges made simply to save face.  

 
I'm sure that we all do this....

You do something "by the book"...then...a month later....you send yourself a reminder to do it "by the book".
After your boss tells you to do it and to make sure it blames someone else. 

 
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An FBI offer to pay former British spy Christopher Steele to collect intelligence on Michael Flynn in the weeks before the 2016 election has been one of the more overlooked revelations in a Justice Department inspector general’s report released in December.

The reference to the FBI proposal, which was made in an Oct. 3, 2016, meeting in an unidentified European city, has received virtually no press attention. But it might have new significance following the recent release of government documents that show that Steele peddled an unfounded rumor that Flynn had an extramarital affair with a Russian woman in the United Kingdom.

The inspector general’s report, released on Dec. 9, 2019, said that FBI agents offered to pay Steele “significantly” to collect intelligence from three separate “buckets” that the bureau was pursuing as part of Crossfire Hurricane, its counterintelligence probe of four Trump campaign associates.

One bucket was “Additional intelligence/reporting on specific, named individuals (such as [Carter Page] or [Flynn]) involved in facilitating the Trump campaign-Russian relationship,” the IG report stated.

FBI agents also sought contact with “any individuals or sub sources” who Steele could provide to “serve as cooperating witnesses to assist in identifying persons involved in the Trump campaign-Russian relationship.”

Steele at the time had provided the FBI with reports he compiled alleging that members of the Trump campaign had conspired with the Kremlin to influence the 2016 election.

An FBI agent provided Steele with a “general overview” of the ongoing Crossfire Hurricane probe, according to the IG report. The agent told Steele about the actions of George Papadopoulos, a Trump campaign aide, and said the FBI had undertaken a “small analytical effort” that centered on Paul Manafort, Carter Page and Flynn.

Some FBI agents who attended the meeting questioned whether the lead agent had disclosed too much to Steele about Crossfire Hurricane, according to the IG report.
https://amp.dailycaller.com/2020/05/20/christopher-steele-michael-flynn-svetlana-lokhova-cambridge?__twitter_impression=true

 
And now they hang their hats on perjury and obstruction.  Without evidence of collusion those are empty charges made simply to save face.  
Not empty at all...there was plenty of evidence of crimes in the report...to just focus on proving an all out collusion is short sighted (especially when you fail to understand how obstruction works...how things work when documents aren't provided and people refuse to testify).

 
I'm sure that we all do this....

You do something "by the book"...then...a month later....you send yourself a reminder to do it "by the book".
A.  It wasn't a month later.  About half that, right?

B.  Yes...if someone says, hey, could you type something up to document this meeting...you do so.  the email didn't look like a reminder at all.

C.  Care to point out what part of the email was bad?  What part was illegal?  What part was against any rule whatsoever?  Hell, what part of the meeting at all was wrong?

 
If you dont think that was a CYA for everyone except Comey, no link can help you.
Cool...so its an opinion that she was asked to blame someone else.  Just clarifying here.

Also...I don't think a lot of things you seem to...there seems to be absolutely nothing to any of this.  Like the very definition of a witch hunt right now.  There isn't anything remotely suspicious about any of this including that email.

 
Not empty at all...there was plenty of evidence of crimes in the report...to just focus on proving an all out collusion is short sighted (especially when you fail to understand how obstruction works...how things work when documents aren't provided and people refuse to testify).
It was all "Collusion! Collussion!  Collusion!"   

So now you are saying it was just a witch hunt.  

 
It was all "Collusion! Collussion!  Collusion!"   

So now you are saying it was just a witch hunt.  
I disagree on your framing that it was all collusion collusion collusion...to the point that there were many discussions on what collusion even meant.

And no...I am not saying it was just a witch hunt...that is pretty bad spin to get that out of what I said.

 
No it isn't.  That's what Obama officials said in sworn testimony.  That they didn't know of any evidence suggesting Trump was a Russian agent. 

Meanwhile, in the public sphere, they were fanning the flames of a bogus conspiracy theory.  It was incredibly reckless.  Really it was a betrayal of the entire democratic process.  

Looking back on it, it really is an asinine claim that demanded extraordinary evidence to support it.  It didn't exist then, and now it's collapsed to rubble.  A scandal manufactured out of thin air.
The meeting at Trump tower itself is evidence of possible Trump collusion.  What are you talking about?  

 
Cool...so its an opinion that she was asked to blame someone else.  Just clarifying here.

Also...I don't think a lot of things you seem to...there seems to be absolutely nothing to any of this.  Like the very definition of a witch hunt right now.  There isn't anything remotely suspicious about any of this including that email.
It's my assessment of the situation yes. I also think in the next 6 months democratics will absolutely be blaming Comey for anything not done "by the book" that comes out. Probably point to the Rice email as evidence. 

 
It's my assessment of the situation yes. I also think in the next 6 months democratics will absolutely be blaming Comey for anything not done "by the book" that comes out. Probably point to the Rice email as evidence. 
In the next 6 months I think this continues to fade away...maybe a ramp up around election time because it is what Trump has to have to paint Biden as bad and corrupt.  In the end...it will be a flash in the pan and quite literally a nothing burger.

 
In the next 6 months I think this continues to fade away...maybe a ramp up around election time because it is what Trump has to have to paint Biden as bad and corrupt.  In the end...it will be a flash in the pan and quite literally a nothing burger.
Biden has his own corruption issues to worry about. This is more about how the FBI was operating during the election and transition. 

 
I keep hearing about this.  What are the main points?
A unprecedented attempt by Obama to destroy democracy and undermine the incoming Trump administration where zero charges will be brought against Obama because there is no proof.  OBAMAGATE! 

 
I keep hearing about this.  What are the main points?
A trump appointee made numerous calls to a Russian contemporary shortly after Trump's election but did so without Trump's knowledge or consent which then further heightened suspicions of our intelligence community of possible collusion of members of the trump campaign with Russian government agencies or individuals which led to a continued probe into the afore mentioned appointee. This probe was brought to the still sitting presidents(Obama) attention and a number of the sitting presidents admin made a decision to look further into the actions of the appointee but were instructed to do everything by the book so as to not jeopardize the incoming admin unnecessarily. Now we have an email from on Obama admin which details the by the book approach and the trump supporters are agog at the attempt at transparency by govt officials and believe the only reason a govt admin would be so forthright is because they are hiding something.

In a nutshell

 
Biden has his own corruption issues to worry about. This is more about how the FBI was operating during the election and transition. 
This whole Obamagate thing has been pushed as a way to discredit Biden...that is plain as day.

We have had and IG report and Mueller...we have had multiple investigations conclude no criminal activity by the FBI in their operation.

 
A trump appointee made numerous calls to a Russian contemporary shortly after Trump's election but did so without Trump's knowledge or consent which then further heightened suspicions of our intelligence community of possible collusion of members of the trump campaign with Russian government agencies or individuals which led to a continued probe into the afore mentioned appointee. This probe was brought to the still sitting presidents(Obama) attention and a number of the sitting presidents admin made a decision to look further into the actions of the appointee but were instructed to do everything by the book so as to not jeopardize the incoming admin unnecessarily. Now we have an email from on Obama admin which details the by the book approach and the trump supporters are agog at the attempt at transparency by govt officials and believe the only reason a govt admin would be so forthright is because they are hiding something.

In a nutshell
Fantastic summary. 

 
This whole Obamagate thing has been pushed as a way to discredit Biden...that is plain as day.

We have had and IG report and Mueller...we have had multiple investigations conclude no criminal activity by the FBI in their operation.
Where is Biden even mentioned in this outside of being a footnote on Rice's email and on the unmasking list?

 
Where is Biden even mentioned in this outside of being a footnote on Rice's email and on the unmasking list?
Do you honestly believe this push against Obama has zero to do with Biden being the candidate against Trump?

Where is it being pushed?  It has been pushed in this thread.  It has been pushed by POTUS.

He knows he will never actually get to Obama on anything...you know it too.  

 
A trump appointee made numerous calls to a Russian contemporary shortly after Trump's election but did so without Trump's knowledge or consent which then further heightened suspicions of our intelligence community of possible collusion of members of the trump campaign with Russian government agencies or individuals which led to a continued probe into the afore mentioned appointee. This probe was brought to the still sitting presidents(Obama) attention and a number of the sitting presidents admin made a decision to look further into the actions of the appointee but were instructed to do everything by the book so as to not jeopardize the incoming admin unnecessarily. Now we have an email from on Obama admin which details the by the book approach and the trump supporters are agog at the attempt at transparency by govt officials and believe the only reason a govt admin would be so forthright is because they are hiding something.

In a nutshell
Thanks.  Doesn't sound earth shattering.  I can go back to ignoring, I presume?

 
Thanks.  Doesn't sound earth shattering.  I can go back to ignoring, I presume?
Mmm, might wanna wait til Biden is elected as our collective vigilance against further flim flam will help tamp down DT Barnum's attempt to sell his policy steaks to those hungry for what he's selling. Til then , keep your eyes open and Vote Biden November 3!!

 
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