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Obama Administration Weaponized the FBI to Spy on Political Opponent? (1 Viewer)

O

Opie

Footballguy
After over two years in the news and HUNDREDS of pages of pushing the story in this forum about the Russian Delusion ....I am sure that you'd all agree that this topic deserves a thread of it's own.

So...have at it.

Let's see if discussion of an accusation with evidence, lasts as long as a discussion of an accusation that was without.

Senator Graham Opening Statement.

Senator Cruz

 
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Max Power said:
Why does this thread even have a ?
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Sensitivity on my part.
I am sure that there are those who doubt this accusation....most likely the same ones who pushed the Russian Delusion.

Probably should be an exclamation point....but we can wait for that.

 
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Snorkelson said:
Yeah, he should have had his lawyer go overseas and withhold aid from an ally to announce an investigation into Don jr, that’s how it’s supposed to be done. 
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Having a “perfect phone call“ wouldn’t have hurt anything either. And claiming one of your Senators from your party were amazed at how perfect that call was. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
There are at least 2 threads on this, Maybe more, why restart another one?
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Really....I looked for anything saying that the Obama administration weaponizing the FBI.....Did I miss them all?

You'd agree that being mentioned in a thread is not the same as having a thread of its own.

Besides...I really don't expect any of the Trump Haters to contribute

 
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Snorkelson said:
Yeah, he should have had his lawyer go overseas and withhold aid from an ally to announce an investigation into Don jr, that’s how it’s supposed to be done. 
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Or withhold aid until a government official in that same country is fired so his ne’er do-well son can get a high paying job on the board of a gas company.  

 
Opie said:
Really....I looked for anything saying that the Obama administration weaponizing the FBI.....Did I miss them all?

You'd agree that being mentioned in a thread is not the same as having a thread of its own.
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Isn’t that Obamagate? That’s one. Molecule has another. There’s an FBI thread that has every report on this. There’s at least 2 more started by Boze and you as well. This claim has been around since 2017.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Isn’t that Obamagate? That’s one. Molecule has another. There’s an FBI thread that has every report on this. There’s at least 2 more started by Boze and you as well. This claim has been around since 2017.
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Which all contain very little of the Senate Hearings.

Don't want to contribute....don't contribute.

Return to policing the forum.

 
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With what we know now about 2016.  How can anyone have objections if Trump were to use the FBI and CIA to investigate the Bidens?   Maybe the Dems know that and it’s why Joe is staying in his basement and Hunter is in lockdown somewhere in California?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Ok so this is about the hearings?
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....and the results.

I know that it upsets at lot of people that President Trump won the election and all of this is coming to light....
All of this that SHOULD and WOULD have remained in the dark IF Hillary had won like she was supposed to but this is OUR country we're talking about.

 
Max Power said:
Why does this thread even have a ?
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Id guess because it is not only a question, but thus far a statement without evidentiary backing.  And there is already a thread for it...and the original post added information that is not only opinion but pretty much ridiculous (like calling things Russian Delusion).

 
I was assured everything was done "by the book" at least three times.

Except it wasn't.

IG report: wow you have a ton of basic errors and failures by your hand picked teams.

Comey: yeah, but the FBI has made bigger mistakes than those. 

 
Opie said:
....and the results.

I know that it upsets at lot of people that President Trump won the election and all of this is coming to light....
All of this that SHOULD and WOULD have remained in the dark IF Hillary had won like she was supposed to but this is OUR country we're talking about.
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Ok Opie, we’ve had a day of hearings. No one has noticed because we have a pandemic, a depression, and 1968 style protests and riots going on.

But who has testified so far & what’s ***new*** that you have learned so far in the hearings?

 
sho nuff said:
Why have written word that can easily be quoted and refuted when you can have youtube videos that usually don't cover the entire conversation?
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I"ve posted videos that contain every word that was said during their allotted time.

Just put your fingers back in your ears and carry on.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Ok Opie, we’ve had a day of hearings. No one has noticed because we have a pandemic, a depression, and 1968 style protests and riots going on.

But who has testified so far & what’s ***new*** that you have learned so far in the hearings?
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The title of the thread says it all....but you may be correct.

This is nothing new....except the testimony.

Care to address any of the testimony or the questioning?

 
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knowledge dropper said:
With what we know now about 2016.  How can anyone have objections if Trump were to use the FBI and CIA to investigate the Bidens?   Maybe the Dems know that and it’s why Joe is staying in his basement and Hunter is in lockdown somewhere in California?
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First off...anyone supporting that who has complained about the Russian investigation would be huge hypocrites.

2nd, to investigate, there should be probable cause of an issue or crime.  With Russia, there was plenty of cause to investigate.  

3rd...if by staying in his basement, you mean going out to give speeches and visit protestors without having to clear parks using force for a photo op...then yeah, I guess that is staying in his basement.  Hunter Biden is pretty irrelevant as he is running for no office and I don't believe is seeking a part of any possible Biden administration.

 
Opie said:
Yeah...not nearly as much evidence as there was in the Russian Delusion!    :lmao:

...but that went on for....how long?
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There was plenty of evidence that Russia interfered with the 2016 election...in fact, it was prove to have happened.   In addition, there was plenty of cause to believe that the Trump campaign engaged in activities with the Russians during that time...in fact, some of that was prove to not be above board, but was not sufficient evidence to prove conspiracy.  We also still are waiting on documents relating to the investigation which the Trump administration refuses to release.

 
I watched the video, but I'd like to see the exact statements from Rosenstein to see if he "admits the FISA process was abused and manipulated".

What I did see him say was that in hindsight knowing then what he knows now, he wouldn't have signed off off the 3rd renewal of the FISA order on Carter Page.  That doesn't necessarily mean that the system was abused, just that it is imperfect (as all systems are).

 
sho nuff said:
There was plenty of evidence that Russia interfered with the 2016 election...in fact, it was prove to have happened.   In addition, there was plenty of cause to believe that the Trump campaign engaged in activities with the Russians during that time...in fact, some of that was prove to not be above board, but was not sufficient evidence to prove conspiracy.  We also still are waiting on documents relating to the investigation which the Trump administration refuses to release.
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This is funny...because when Rosenstein( and others) were asked about the evidence.....everyone denied ever seeing any....at least they did....under oath.

 
Opie said:
I"ve posted videos that contain every word that was said during their allotted time.

Just put your fingers back in your ears and carry on.
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I think Id rather read the transcripts..easier to see that way and I read faster than they talk...also easier to pull the relevant quotes when needed while still being able to cite the entire thing.

No need to put my fingers in my ears...if something relevant comes out of them and I read it...I will respond and discuss.  Thus far, it is the very definition of a nothingburger.

 
The Z Machine said:
I watched the video, but I'd like to see the exact statements from Rosenstein to see if he "admits the FISA process was abused and manipulated".

What I did see him say was that in hindsight knowing then what he knows now, he wouldn't have signed off off the 3rd renewal of the FISA order on Carter Page.  That doesn't necessarily mean that the system was abused, just that it is imperfect (as all systems are).
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If knowing then, what you know now about the documents presented to obtain a FISA...would you have signed it.

The answer was "no"...

Pretty much indicating that the evidence presented to him was abused or manipulated.....for example....an altered email.

 
sho nuff said:
I think Id rather read the transcripts..easier to see that way and I read faster than they talk...also easier to pull the relevant quotes when needed while still being able to cite the entire thing.

No need to put my fingers in my ears...if something relevant comes out of them and I read it...I will respond and discuss.  Thus far, it is the very definition of a nothingburger.
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You would rather READ what was said rather than HEAR it come straight from their mouths.....good for you.

 
Opie said:
This is funny...because when Rosenstein( and others) were asked about the evidence.....everyone denied ever seeing any....at least they did....under oath.
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I don't believe that is accurate of what was testified to...as I have provided quotes in the other thread about it as well.

 
Opie said:
You would rather READ what was said rather than HEAR it come straight from their mouths.....good for you.
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Considering if it is the actual transcripts...its what is coming straight out of their mouths...yes.  I find most of the speech patterns to be quite boring and the theatrics pretty awful.

 
knowledge dropper said:
And taxpayers are STILL winning lawsuits against the IRS over this practice.  Your links meant nothing so stop it. 
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Yes...taxpayers of all kinds actually. (lawsuits being settled sure...because right wing and left wing groups were singled out for review).  It was about looking into political issues with non-profits.  Again, the IG reported on this...you should read that report...there are actually several reports on it.  They have been posted...I can lead you to that water, but I cannot force you to drink.

 
sho nuff said:
Considering if it is the actual transcripts...its what is coming straight out of their mouths...yes.  I find most of the speech patterns to be quite boring and the theatrics pretty awful.
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That's odd...most people say that they can read body language and patterns in their speech to indicate deception.

You can read all of this from words on paper.

...must be YOUR superpower.

 
sho nuff said:
Yes...taxpayers of all kinds actually. (lawsuits being settled sure...because right wing and left wing groups were singled out for review).  It was about looking into political issues with non-profits.  Again, the IG reported on this...you should read that report...there are actually several reports on it.  They have been posted...I can lead you to that water, but I cannot force you to drink.
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...the Kool-Aid?

Good.

 
Opie said:
If knowing then, what you know now about the documents presented to obtain a FISA...would you have signed it.

The answer was "no"...

Pretty much indicating that the evidence presented to him was abused or manipulated.....for example....an altered email.
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No, I do not believe that is a correct conclusion.  It's possible (likely) that more information has come to light in the last 2 years since he signed off on the application.  You know, all the work that Mueller's team did, in addition to journalists, etc.  Evidence can be "discovered" without it being "manipulated".

You are suggesting that there were political motives to actively lie or admit exculpatory info.  That hasn't been shown or proven thus far.  Without those motives, I don't see validity in the claims of manipulation or abuse.  Rather, I see overzealous or low performing agents and a system with not enough checks on the validity or evaluation or exculpatory evidence.

Essentially, the system as it was designed contains flaws. It can't be claimed to be manipulation or abuse if the system is so flawed.

 
Opie said:
That's odd...most people say that they can read body language and patterns in their speech to indicate deception.

You can read all of this from words on paper.

...must be YOUR superpower.
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I don't believe I made a claim that I could read people or body language from paper.  As a former auditor...yes, I do pretty well at reading body language and behavior and have trained on that in the past.  A bit rusty as I have not done that for several years.

Though, this seems more like attempts to get personal with me rather than address much of anything else.

Carry on.

 
Opie said:
...the Kool-Aid?

Good.
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Ispectors General reports are the Kool-Aid?  Odd...Id think they are quite reliable...especially to combat links from some really bad sources we have seen discussing the "targeting" by the IRS.  (KD brought the IRS stuff up, not me).

 
Opie said:
The answer was "no"...
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At/around 2:33 RR says there was a proper basis, Lee cuts him off. RR also says signing Fisa's requires signing Fisa's means trusting that Woods procedures have been followed, this is something that is done by rank and file (a point that was raised in 2017). Saying that he wouldn't sign a Fisa (specifically Page's, well into the Trump administration) if he knew Woods procedures had not been followed is not the same as saying that a Fisa doesn't have a proper basis.

 
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Opie said:
I think that this thread is about the Obama Administration weaponizing the FBI.
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So I've raised 2 points here, you don't want to seem to talk about either of them.

Here's a third and maybe it's more to your claim in the OP: Rosenstein was in the Trump administration and the Fisa renewals for Page that he signed off on happened in the Trump administration. 

 
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