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Covid and School This Fall (1 Viewer)

Mrs. Rannous said:
AAABatteries said:
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mollyhensleyclancy/georgia-school-reopening-photo-paulding-county

I don't know how "good" Buzzfeed is so take this link with a grain of salt.  We have friends that live in Paulding and the rumor is the student was suspended - I'm not sure I believe that or if they were that it was for taking a pic and posting online.  Either way, it's a complete cluster here in North Georgia suburbs.  Not so much because case numbers are high but rather these counties seem to have crazy plans or no real plans.  I heard this morning that now they are saying they won't quarantine a whole class but only those that were not wearing masks.  Which appears to be around 30-50% based on what I'm hearing.
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It is accurate. The student who took the picture in the hallway was suspended.  There's also a recording of the principal on the PA telling everyone not to post things that are detrimental to the school.  That picture doesn't look good.
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In perhaps the least surprising updates to a story:

1.  The student's suspension was overturned.

2. 

Nine people have tested positive for the novel coronavirus at the Georgia high school that gained national attention after photos surfaced online showing dozens of students crowding into hallways.

North Paulding High School Principal Gabe Carmona said in a letter to parents on Saturday that at least six students and three faculty members who were in school for "at least some time" last week have since contracted COVID-19, according to a copy obtained by The Atlanta Journal Constitution. 

In the note, Carmona said that the Paulding County School District was working with the state's Department of Public Health (DPH) to implement "safety precautions and response plans." He said the custodial staff would continue to clean and disinfect the school buildings daily. However, he did not mention whether any quarantine guidance would be released for students and faculty who may have come into contact with the infected individuals.

 
The Gator said:
In perhaps the least surprising updates to a story:

1.  The student's suspension was overturned.

2. 

Nine people have tested positive for the novel coronavirus at the Georgia high school that gained national attention after photos surfaced online showing dozens of students crowding into hallways.

North Paulding High School Principal Gabe Carmona said in a letter to parents on Saturday that at least six students and three faculty members who were in school for "at least some time" last week have since contracted COVID-19, according to a copy obtained by The Atlanta Journal Constitution. 

In the note, Carmona said that the Paulding County School District was working with the state's Department of Public Health (DPH) to implement "safety precautions and response plans." He said the custodial staff would continue to clean and disinfect the school buildings daily. However, he did not mention whether any quarantine guidance would be released for students and faculty who may have come into contact with the infected individuals.
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1) Not surprising

2) It's great they plan to "clean and disinfect" but that's not really the problem

The reasoned thinking going on there is amazing.  They are their own worst enemies right now.  Really sad to read.  Based on one of the previous posts it sure sounds like a majority of Oklahoma is steering right into the same issues.

 
And this is why we’ve taken the “all-online” option that our school district in NJ has offered. We are fortunate that my wife is a stay-at-home mom and I have a job where it is easy to WFH.

 
MAC_32 said:
I want them out of the house, but not for myself; for their development. I'll sacrifice my own time and sanity if it were a good thing for them, but this isn't. 
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Why not?  If they are just sitting at desks and teachers are rotating among rooms, that's not social development.  That's jail.  Younger kids need school partly because they can socialize and have free play at recess.  Sitting at a desk with a mask on just means they aren't at home.  The teachers can't really teach sitting at the front of the room and never moving.

 
Mrs. Rannous said:
Why not?  If they are just sitting at desks and teachers are rotating among rooms, that's not social development.  That's jail.  Younger kids need school partly because they can socialize and have free play at recess.  Sitting at a desk with a mask on just means they aren't at home.  The teachers can't really teach sitting at the front of the room and never moving.
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That's a good point. How beneficial will school be given the current limitations? I am worried about just the most basic teaching. With masks on, it makes hearing people harder. Voices are muffled and we can't see the lip movement. We have class microphones but will that still be muffled, not sure? How well will I be able to understand the kids? It will be a major challenge, that is for sure. 

 
The Gator said:
In perhaps the least surprising updates to a story:

1.  The student's suspension was overturned.

2. 

Nine people have tested positive for the novel coronavirus at the Georgia high school that gained national attention after photos surfaced online showing dozens of students crowding into hallways.

North Paulding High School Principal Gabe Carmona said in a letter to parents on Saturday that at least six students and three faculty members who were in school for "at least some time" last week have since contracted COVID-19, according to a copy obtained by The Atlanta Journal Constitution. 

In the note, Carmona said that the Paulding County School District was working with the state's Department of Public Health (DPH) to implement "safety precautions and response plans." He said the custodial staff would continue to clean and disinfect the school buildings daily. However, he did not mention whether any quarantine guidance would be released for students and faculty who may have come into contact with the infected individuals.
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And now the school has shut down for at least Monday and Tuesday while they clean and reassess. 

 
Mrs. Rannous said:
Why not?  If they are just sitting at desks and teachers are rotating among rooms, that's not social development.  That's jail.  Younger kids need school partly because they can socialize and have free play at recess.  Sitting at a desk with a mask on just means they aren't at home.  The teachers can't really teach sitting at the front of the room and never moving.
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Exactly, everyone agrees that younger kids do need socialization for development and mental health, etc. but they’re not going to get that at school this fall.  When I thought about sending my elementary school aged kids back for the above reasons and considered no recess, no lunch tables, no centers or group activities... just sitting at a desk with a mask on all day while half their friends aren’t even in the room? Without question that’s much worse than what they’ll get at home.  I feel bad for people who have no choice but to send their kids in because of work.  I’ll be thrilled to send my boys back to school, when school is back to normal. 

 
Mrs. Rannous said:
Why not?  If they are just sitting at desks and teachers are rotating among rooms, that's not social development.  That's jail.  Younger kids need school partly because they can socialize and have free play at recess.  Sitting at a desk with a mask on just means they aren't at home.  The teachers can't really teach sitting at the front of the room and never moving.
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We aren't having a back to school primer for a couple weeks, but this is not what I expect at pre k and 2nd grade. It may in 5th grade, but him just being around his friends instead of his younger brothers all day would be a positive. 

 
So parents in my area are having an absolute freakout when realizing a district that allows 26 kids in a 600 square foot room can't distance 22 kids (selecting in person)  even 3 feet apart from fewer than 4 kids.  I'm not sure where they felt the extra space would come from.  

 
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Our school district is doing one day a week so 25% capacity with Friday’s off. That’s also 25% of the kids who chose in person. No idea if it will work but it’s a way better plan than everyone back at once and threatening kids with expulsion. 

 
MAC_32 said:
We aren't having a back to school primer for a couple weeks, but this is not what I expect at pre k and 2nd grade. It may in 5th grade, but him just being around his friends instead of his younger brothers all day would be a positive. 
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I wonder whether or not a wiggly ten-year-old could sit still that long.  Also, I've been wondering about all that sitting.  On an airplane, that would put some people at risk for Deep Vein Thrombosis (DVT).  Can that happen to kids or teens?

 
culdeus said:
So parents in my area are having an absolute freakout when realizing a district that allows 26 kids in a 600 square foot room can't distance 22 kids (selecting in person)  even 3 feet apart from fewer than 4 kids.  I'm not sure where they felt the extra space would come from.  
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I think some adults forget what schools are like. People are packed in like sardines in most places. There are 1800 kids at the high school I work at. Every class has every seat taken, kids are a foot apart at best from like 6 other people. To move through the aisles to sharpen a pencil or get a kleenex, you are basically within a foot of 10 more kids to get there. The hallways are shoulder to shoulder through the whole school during passing time. It's one of the worst places to try to create social distance.

When we would administer the ACT/SAT, one of the rules is all the kids must be at least 3' from any other student. So we had a maximum of 15 kids allowed per classroom. For a class we would normally have 28-34 kids in these rooms. Now go to 6' and we would be talking like 8 kid per class. 

 
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Ilov80s said:
I think some adults forget what schools are like. People are packed in like sardines in most places. There are 1800 kids at the high school I work at. Every class has every seat taken, kids are a foot apart at best from like 6 other people. To move through the aisles to sharpen a pencil or get a kleenex, you are basically within a foot of 10 more kids to get there. The hallways are shoulder to shoulder through the whole school during passing time. It's one of the worst places to try to create social distance.
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As a point of reference - our schools are pretty much the same.  I've heard ~25% are electing to do remote.  So about 1350 kids.  Mask usage is not mandatory here and from reports it seems to be 50/50 at best.  So that's 700 kids walking around and sitting close to each other plus 700 more with masks on.  All day long.  There's zero chance this is sustainable given the numbers we have.  Forget about a debate about masks - how much they help, whether it's a violation of someone's rights.  If your plan is to open school to that many people, not require masks AND plan to quarantine everybody who gets sick or is in close contact then I'd suggest your plan isn't well thought out.

 
Ocram said:
As a point of reference - our schools are pretty much the same.  I've heard ~25% are electing to do remote.  So about 1350 kids.  Mask usage is not mandatory here and from reports it seems to be 50/50 at best.  So that's 700 kids walking around and sitting close to each other plus 700 more with masks on.  All day long.  There's zero chance this is sustainable given the numbers we have.  Forget about a debate about masks - how much they help, whether it's a violation of someone's rights.  If your plan is to open school to that many people, not require masks AND plan to quarantine everybody who gets sick or is in close contact then I'd suggest your plan isn't well thought out.
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Yeah of all the times we could use some unified direction from the Dept of Ed, it would be now. Instead, it’s just everyone for themselves out here. 

 
Ocram said:
They are taking cues from others.
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We all do.

More competent people take their cues from other competent people, make decisions based on science and other verifiable facts, and change their opinions if/when the science and verifiable facts change.  There is an openness to different ideas and a willingness to admit you were incorrect when applicable.

Less competent people take their cues from those that express opinions they already believe, fit their world view, or are from 'their side' politically.  They change their opinions when forced to do so or (grudgingly) when the preponderance of evidence become so great as to be obvious.  They are stubborn in the face of new information and are quick to blame others when wrong.

Individual responses to COVID19 have made this determination much easier than prior to the epidemic.  Some people have surprised in both ways throughout this crisis.  I'm sure each of you have examples of each in your own circle of family and friends.  Unfortunately, too many of the less competent surprises nationally have been elected officials and those is positions of authority (school boards, conference administrators, etc).

 
Less than 48 hours before local public schools were set to start, official have pushed the start back two weeks.

Jefferson Parish Public Schools Superintendent Dr. James Gray has announced the delay in parish schools opening until August 26 when he says a rapid, 15-minute test will be available to teachers and students who show signs of the disease.

Gray said that the rapid test from Ochsner will not be available to the schools until August 26, so the school year won't occur until that time. Schools were supposed to begin this week.
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This is suburban New Orleans. In New Orleans itself, schools are scheduled to start the week after Labor Day.

 
Mrs. Rannous said:
I wonder whether or not a wiggly ten-year-old could sit still that long.  Also, I've been wondering about all that sitting.  On an airplane, that would put some people at risk for Deep Vein Thrombosis (DVT).  Can that happen to kids or teens?
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I don't know about DVT, but my son's middle-school plan sounds heart-breaking: 

    - 80 minutes sitting at the desk, then a ten-minute "stand up" break staying within one foot of their desk. Then it's back to sitting again.

    - No cafeteria, no time outdoors, no break in the routine except classroom changes. Lunches eaten at their desks.

    - No going to the bathroom between classes. Bathroom breaks only allowed during class, and only one child at a time.

    - The afotementioned "two strikes and yer out" rule regarding both (a) unmasking and (b) touching other students.

...

Glad we made the choice to keep him and his sister at home learning online. Barring a miracle and a lot of never-happen stuff ... my kids will be learning from home all school-year long.

 
Doug B said:
I don't know about DVT, but my son's middle-school plan sounds heart-breaking: 

    - 80 minutes sitting at the desk, then a ten-minute "stand up" break staying within one foot of their desk. Then it's back to sitting again.

    - No cafeteria, no time outdoors, no break in the routine except classroom changes. Lunches eaten at their desks.

    - No going to the bathroom between classes. Bathroom breaks only allowed during class, and only one child at a time.

    - The afotementioned "two strikes and yer out" rule regarding both (a) unmasking and (b) touching other students.

...

Glad we made the choice to keep him and his sister at home learning online. Barring a miracle and a lot of never-happen stuff ... my kids will be learning from home all school-year long.
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That's torture and there is no way on Earth that those rules will be successfully enforced. Middle schoolers are animals. 

 
KY governor is recommending no in-person classes until Sept28 at earliest. I think my district will probably just go ahead and call the whole first nine weeks virtual and not plan on phasing in hybrid until mid-October.

Probably  new guidance about fall sports later in the week.

 
Doug B said:
I don't know about DVT, but my son's middle-school plan sounds heart-breaking: 

    - 80 minutes sitting at the desk, then a ten-minute "stand up" break staying within one foot of their desk. Then it's back to sitting again.

    - No cafeteria, no time outdoors, no break in the routine except classroom changes. Lunches eaten at their desks.

    - No going to the bathroom between classes. Bathroom breaks only allowed during class, and only one child at a time.

    - The afotementioned "two strikes and yer out" rule regarding both (a) unmasking and (b) touching other students.

...

Glad we made the choice to keep him and his sister at home learning online. Barring a miracle and a lot of never-happen stuff ... my kids will be learning from home all school-year long.
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Craig_MiamiFL said:
Sounds like jail.
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I don't know what you were expecting. 

I would be shocked if they don't implement fun activities throughout the day to break it up.  You don't have to be touching each other to have social interactions.

 
tuffnutt said:
I am a teacher in Kansas and we are having our first day of meetings( kids come next monday) I am in a classroom right now with 17 other teachers... 7 are wearing masks. We are doomed.
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Absolute BS. 

We’ve training for  a week...at school but via Zoom.

When we do meet 2-3 at a time we distance and wear masks.

 
OrtonToOlsen said:
GOOD GOURD

There is no reason for kids to be in school now FFS.  NONE

Come fight me
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There is absolutely no reason. It's crazy.

Well, there is one reason. The social services aspect we've tied to schools has become a necessary element of the day for most parents.

But this is as crazy as our national response, though, so it shouldn't surprise. 

 
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I feel like I'm hollering into the wilderness since April about our response to COVID. No need for that to change, really, but I just think the teacher/student spread now affects my family, so I'm a little more vociferous about it. I don't want my fifty year-old brother getting it and dying because of a flawed educational policy that took politics more into account than science.

I have no idea what else to say. 

 
rockaction said:
There is absolutely no reason. It's crazy.

Well, there is one reason. The social services aspect we've tied to schools has become a necessary element of the day for most parents.

But this is as crazy as our national response, though, so it shouldn't surprise. 
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No offense but there's no need to paint such a broad brush.

There are some parts of the country that have gone through this, suffered from this, learned from this, and have adjusted to this where having kids in school with appropriate measures is the right decision. I live in a densely populated town outside of NYC that thankfully made it through the first few months relatively well and things have since remained stable. My 3.5 year old is in the 5th week of "camp" at her former school and there have been a single positive case (knock on wood). The teachers all wear masks, the kids aged 2-6 all wear masks, the sizes of the groups are small, parents wear masks for pick up/drop off and no one besides the teachers and the kids can go in.

And by and large the people of this city wear masks all the time inside public places, when around others outside and distance when possible. My kid's school is probably one of 20 here and I've heard of only one needing to close for two weeks because a teacher was in contact with someone who tested positive (teacher ended up being negative). All the rules will be the same in the public schools come September, with smaller classes and on/off schedules. Does it mean that there will be no additional cases or even some kind of outbreak in a few of the classes in one of the schools? Of course not...but it shifts the risk/reward balance considerably.

And yeah I want my kid in school because it makes my life a hell of a lot easier, not to mention hers better, but I'd never put her, my family, or our extended family at risk if I didn't think it was as safe as we could reasonably expect. What kind of parent would?

 
RUSF18 said:
No offense but there's no need to paint such a broad brush.

There are some parts of the country that have gone through this, suffered from this, learned from this, and have adjusted to this where having kids in school with appropriate measures is the right decision. I live in a densely populated town outside of NYC that thankfully made it through the first few months relatively well and things have since remained stable. My 3.5 year old is in the 5th week of "camp" at her former school and there have been a single positive case (knock on wood). The teachers all wear masks, the kids aged 2-6 all wear masks, the sizes of the groups are small, parents wear masks for pick up/drop off and no one besides the teachers and the kids can go in.

And by and large the people of this city wear masks all the time inside public places, when around others outside and distance when possible. My kid's school is probably one of 20 here and I've heard of only one needing to close for two weeks because a teacher was in contact with someone who tested positive (teacher ended up being negative). All the rules will be the same in the public schools come September, with smaller classes and on/off schedules. Does it mean that there will be no additional cases or even some kind of outbreak in a few of the classes in one of the schools? Of course not...but it shifts the risk/reward balance considerably.

And yeah I want my kid in school because it makes my life a hell of a lot easier, not to mention hers better, but I'd never put her, my family, or our extended family at risk if I didn't think it was as safe as we could reasonably expect. What kind of parent would?
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As far as i can tell, your area is the only one that has any business doing this.  I sure hope it keeps working.  Maybe that would persuade other parents to push for this.

 
RUSF18 said:
No offense but there's no need to paint such a broad brush.
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No offense taken. I want to agree with this with all my federalist-leaning heart but there is a need to paint a pandemic with a broad brush due to how it spreads. We haven't used a broad enough brush nor intrusive enough response to merit re-opening without the burden of doubt being placed upon those who would open. I thought it was even prudent to not take a one-size-fits-all approach at first. That was miserably wrong based upon the empirical and anecdotal evidence about how people were acting without legal restrictions. Never have I been so surprised at people's actions than recently. No masks, politicizing the disease, etc. I'm a conservative who understands police power and federalism and it proved not efficacious. The experts were all right, as I feared all along. So a broad brush is needed if you look at the modelling of how the disease spreads in superspreader hubs and the like. It's not a pretty picture. I'm not Chicken Little, either. It's just when it's played out exactly the way a group of people (epidemiologists) have generally described it, it behooves us to listen to them before acting again like this.

RUSF18 said:
And yeah I want my kid in school because it makes my life a hell of a lot easier, not to mention hers better, but I'd never put her, my family, or our extended family at risk if I didn't think it was as safe as we could reasonably expect. What kind of parent would?
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I think my brother, to personalize it also, also wants them in school. But at what cost? It seems like we're sticking all our collective heads in the sand about this disease. I'm not saying you are, I'm just saying a lot of people aren't taking as reasoned or cautious response as you think (see my above comment that admittedly is not capable of empirical proof but still stands).

 
This is the beginning of week two online for me.  The earliest we'll return in person for hybrid is October.  I spent all last week mainly setting routines, breaking ice, and developing community.  I'm working from home teaching barefoot in shorts and a tee.   I could get used to this.

 
My school district announced last night that their survey results showed 1,100 out of 7,500 chose online only. Less than 15%. 

The rest of us want in person or some form of hybrid. Yet our district decided to go all online. 

Personally, I think it's laziness combined with a lack of funding at every level. Had we started this properly back in March or April, it probably could have worked.

 
Doug B said:
I don't know about DVT, but my son's middle-school plan sounds heart-breaking: 

    - 80 minutes sitting at the desk, then a ten-minute "stand up" break staying within one foot of their desk. Then it's back to sitting again.

    - No cafeteria, no time outdoors, no break in the routine except classroom changes. Lunches eaten at their desks.
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This sounds disturbingly similar to my typical workday.

 
Payne said:
My school district announced last night that their survey results showed 1,100 out of 7,500 chose online only. Less than 15%. 

The rest of us want in person or some form of hybrid. Yet our district decided to go all online. 

Personally, I think it's laziness combined with a lack of funding at every level. Had we started this properly back in March or April, it probably could have worked.
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Somewhat ironically, if more people chose online-only you might've had a better chance at getting some form of hybrid, as it would have been easier to fit the remaining kids into the existing schools.  It's possible they did the work and determined it wasn't feasible to have 85%+ of students come back to school while implementing all the various health and safety protocols needed to reopen safely.   

 
The Gator said:
@AAABatteries

An entire classroom full of second graders in Georgia has been forced into quarantine after one classmate tested positive for the novel coronavirus.

Local news station WGCL reports that a student at the Sixes Elementary School in Cherokee County was diagnosed with COVID-19 just after they attended class on Monday, which was the first day back at school after summer break.

All 20 students who are in the class, as well as the students’ teacher, will now be under quarantine for the next two weeks. Students will still receive instruction from the teacher over the internet.
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update:

In the six days that Cherokee County schools have been in session, the north Georgia district has had to direct 826 students to quarantine due to exposure to COVID-19, along with 42 teachers.

:oldunsure:

 
Ignoratio Elenchi said:
Somewhat ironically, if more people chose online-only you might've had a better chance at getting some form of hybrid, as it would have been easier to fit the remaining kids into the existing schools.  It's possible they did the work and determined it wasn't feasible to have 85%+ of students come back to school while implementing all the various health and safety protocols needed to reopen safely.   
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They made the decision prior to gathering the data. Trust me, I don't know what the right answer is, but I feel the people making these decisions  believe the numbers were going to come back the other way around. They all had a look of disbelief. I feel the time that has passed since March should have been geared toward a hybrid model. It would be easier to pivot to either all online or in person with that structure. It's darn near impossible to focus on all online to find out most everyone wants back in class. On top of that, how much work will have to be done when in person is deemed "safe" and the kids and teachers need to pivot to that?  

 
Payne said:
They made the decision prior to gathering the data. Trust me, I don't know what the right answer is, but I feel the people making these decisions  believe the numbers were going to come back the other way around. They all had a look of disbelief. I feel the time that has passed since March should have been geared toward a hybrid model. It would be easier to pivot to either all online or in person with that structure. It's darn near impossible to focus on all online to find out most everyone wants back in class. On top of that, how much work will have to be done when in person is deemed "safe" and the kids and teachers need to pivot to that?  
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I don't think pivoting back to all in person would be hard at all. It's what everyone knows and has done for years. 

 
Mrs. Rannous said:
I'm also wondering how much worse it is for kids to go back to school for a couple of days and then have it shut down.  That sounds like mental health hell to me.
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Right, my contention all a long has been schools should have declared they will be all online for X amount of time a month ago. This gives everyone time to prepare and it gives the school control over the situation. Any in person or hybrid model is giving up a lot of control of the situation. 

 
Payne said:
I feel the people making these decisions  believe the numbers were going to come back the other way around. They all had a look of disbelief. 
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I'm having a hard time picturing the context here.  The people who conducted the survey had a look of disbelief when they released the survey results to the public?  

Payne said:
I feel the time that has passed since March should have been geared toward a hybrid model. It would be easier to pivot to either all online or in person with that structure. It's darn near impossible to focus on all online to find out most everyone wants back in class. On top of that, how much work will have to be done when in person is deemed "safe" and the kids and teachers need to pivot to that?  
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I agree that things would be better if districts had picked a single approach months ago and spent all this time working on how to make it as good as possible.  I acknowledge there would've been issues with that, too, however, as it was hard to predict what September would look like back in March.  

Pivoting back to full in-person schooling when it's safe to do so will be relatively easy, the entire system is set up to operate that way.  It will just be returning to normal.  In the interim, the hybrid approach is the hardest to implement, as you're asking teachers to simultaneously provide two different kinds of instruction.  Pivoting to/from all-online or all-in-person is much easier than the split approach.

Personally I think all summer should've been spent figuring out how to provide the best possible remote education to everyone, while figuring out how to also accommodate people who need the other services schools provide (free daycare, meals, etc.)  No solution is perfect but all of the hybrid plans I've seen, including the one being implemented in my own town, seem like half-### solutions to appease people without actually solving many of the issues (e.g. people who need to return full-time to work).  I'm pretty sure if the state government wasn't requiring some form of in-person instruction in the fall, our district would've gone fully online to start the year.  Part of me suspects we'll end up with that anyway at some point in the next few weeks.  

 
Payne said:
Perhaps you're right. 
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The hard part will be enforcing mask use, social distancing, etc with kids. It was already a massive headache managing their behavior, this just adds a bunch of other behaviors to manage, things kids will complain about and increase the tension among everyone. Plus there is all the uncertainty and rumors that will be around. I really want to go back to in-person school and I feel really bad for the kids but school isn't going to be anywhere close to what it was and the learning is not going to be the same. 

 
Ignoratio Elenchi said:
No solution is perfect but all of the hybrid plans I've seen, including the one being implemented in my own town, seem like half-### solutions to appease people without actually solving many of the issues (e.g. people who need to return full-time to work). 
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Around here, the only two available plans for kids in 6th grade and up are:

   - Two days a week in the school building, three days a week at home, or
   - Five days a week at home

So ... anyone counting on their middle-school kid(s) being able to attend school five days a week ... that's completely off the table. Fine by me (we chose the 100% virtual option) ... but I can see how current options are leaving some families in the lurch.

 
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