Sammy3469
Footballguy
This seems promising for NYC:
https://www.csa-nyc.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Re-opening-2020.pdf
https://www.csa-nyc.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Re-opening-2020.pdf
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Covid and School This Fall (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ChiefD
- Start date
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
This. This. This. This. This.
Hybrid will be a #### show. It always is. @pinequick put a few of the reasons.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yeah, the hybrid thing is a terrible idea IMO. We are having an entirely separate optional 1st semester online academy. We are also doing "Safe Start September" where all the classes will be be online to start and then once it is safe we will transition back to in person slowly. The online academy kids will be online until the 2nd semester in January.Ignoratio Elenchi said:
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
The college I work for is implementing a hybrid model. The thought of a 300 person lecture hall type of class going remote bores me to tears just thinking about it, but this is a small school so such an environment doesn't exist. So I think it both can work and actually may be a good introduction to their reality once out in the work force. For the classes that were identified as not effectively taught remotely (i.e. biology lab) the class sizes were reduced when necessary, but most were already in larger rooms in the first place. I'm open minded to the possibility this works and some form of it sustains for future use.
Applying some form of what we're doing to most K-12 settings has never made any functional sense to me though. It's struck me as an idea concocted by those that aren't actually in the classroom that aren't tasked with actually making it work in that setting. And this is before considering movement within the school on any given day. You're either in - or out. I'll happily eat crow if a school of any larger size is successful with a hybrid model. And if they are I'll bet it it is from a well funded district.
Applying some form of what we're doing to most K-12 settings has never made any functional sense to me though. It's struck me as an idea concocted by those that aren't actually in the classroom that aren't tasked with actually making it work in that setting. And this is before considering movement within the school on any given day. You're either in - or out. I'll happily eat crow if a school of any larger size is successful with a hybrid model. And if they are I'll bet it it is from a well funded district.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
It’s already predictable what’s going to happen though. All the kids getting it right now will be sick or asymptomatic for awhile and then get better. So then they’ll just say “see, who cares if the kids test positive, they’re fine. Send them back to school and if they get it they get it.”
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
Updating this, it was just my city that is implementing this. The state leadership is not happy about it. The city cites ventilation as the major issue, which at least shows they are being smart about it. Too many old buildings with terrible ventilation.Flying Elvis said:
My oldest already wanted distance. My younger boys want to go back but I'm glad the decision is out of our hands, at least for now. Hybrid seems like it's going to create too many issues for teachers, anyway.
AcerFC
Footballguy
The district I work in just made the decision to go remote for the first month. First one in this area to do it. Will be interesting to see if others follow
This does not make me feel confident that my soccer team will play this fall. Safety first, I just wish I knew so I can have the kids work on their own. I am not allowed to meet with them, even off school grounds. (Secondary concern, just adding to the thread)
This does not make me feel confident that my soccer team will play this fall. Safety first, I just wish I knew so I can have the kids work on their own. I am not allowed to meet with them, even off school grounds. (Secondary concern, just adding to the thread)
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
NJ is giving school districts the option to go entirely virtual; this after the teachers' and principals' unions lobbied Gov. Murphy. Previously all districts were required to offer virtual and hybrid options. (The hybrid option proposed in my district and others nearby doesn't make any sense, so we picked the virtual option anyway.)
Galileo
Footballguy
Doug B
Footballguy
If I were you, I'd be very encouraged. Somebody over there is thinking critically about what is happening.
cheese
Footballguy
Maybe, but not yet. First you have parents that will be completely shocked when it actually happens in their school. Those parents will complain about the schools response and find people to blame. We have to get through that stage in basically every district before we get to the “oh well” stage imo.
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
I am. When I first posted about the plan submitted by my city, I mentioned the only issue I had with the document was the omission of any discussion about ventilation.
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
I haven't followed it, was busy most of the day yesterday, but it sounded like schools are still pretty much required to offer in-person instruction, and in order to opt to do all-remote instruction they need to demonstrate to the state that they won't be able to meet the health and safety guidelines in time for the start of the school year. So districts still don't really have the option to choose all-online. I'm not sure what the actual requirements are that need to be met. But I think my district, for example, already submitted their hybrid plan to the state for approval so I'm guessing we still wouldn't be able to opt for all-online unless something changes between now and September.
My kid’s elementary school started today online. Online only has been the plan for awhile now. We didn’t get zoom class times until Tuesday. Then on Wednesday, the principal emailed around a different zoom schedule. Wednesday night, we get clarification from my son’s teacher to ignore the principal and go with the original schedule. Things are off to a smooth start.
On top of that, the school’s before and after school care program is continuing in person despite the school itself being closed. We have to pay to retain a spot even if the kids aren’t going to use it, otherwise we lose the spot in the program. Ugh.
On top of that, the school’s before and after school care program is continuing in person despite the school itself being closed. We have to pay to retain a spot even if the kids aren’t going to use it, otherwise we lose the spot in the program. Ugh.
Doug B
Footballguy
My son's school is doing a virtual afterschool program. Granted, it's more "extracurricular activities" than "child care" (they offer classes like Robotics, Photography, Band, and more) but still. The reason 90% of those kids attended is because their parents needed somewhere for their kids to stay until after 5 p.m.
Our program is doing full-day care, which I’m sure is very much appreciated by those parents who can’t work from home - why the district thinks that’s safe but in person school isn’t confuses me, but whatever. The downside is that the program staff are explicitly stating they won’t help facilitate the kids logging into zoom classes during the day, which makes the thing kind of worthless for the younger set.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Significantly less students will be in this program vs in-person school. My wife's school is going full remote for at least the first month and they are offering something similar. They didn't want to make this available because of potential abuse from parents, but given their population they felt they didn't have a choice. They're currently going through the difficult process of vetting each student situation to determine who really needs this option and who is trying to get into it just so their kids are not at home.
But the not willing to help with zoom stipulation is...odd. Like you, I don't get that at all. The 'teachers' that will be responsible for these kids at my wife's school are the specials - gym, art, music, etc. Their programs are temporarily dead, but this way the school can keep them on staff. During learning periods they are to keep their distance from the kids as much as possible, but should issues arise (behavior, emergency, tech, etc) they are to troubleshoot and communicate. During non-learning periods (weather permitting) the kids are to go outside - whether it's to move, do their work, or another organized activity.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I think what really forced the state’s hand is that like 350 teachers in Patterson said they were refusing to teach in person. So the District said they have no way to do in person because they won’t have enough teachers. They then submitted a full online plan to the state in defiance of the guidelines.
If it had been a small district with lots of resources, my guess is the state would have dug in. But the 3rd largest district in the state without a lot of resources to make things safe forced the state’s hand.
That's the justification (less kids). I don't think it's super compelling given that even their reduced class sizes are still large relative to the space they have available. Plus, while they'll go outside, they can't use any of the playground equipment. It sounds kind of miserable.
They are doing the opposite with us with regarding to sign ups - they are basically forcing parents, like me, who don't need the program to sign up and take a spot or we'll lose it when in person school does resume. Your school's attempt at vetting makes more sense.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
If the parent(s) have to work or are otherwise unable to help facilitate then their kids will either not doing anything or go somewhere else unattended. My wife's school justified doing what they're doing because they'd rather be the ones in control of that occupied space and ensuring the kids are in an environment to learn. It increases their liability, which is why they resisted but with their student population (low income, a lot of single parent family's) they think it's the right thing to do. She is collaborating on the vetting process right now while a task force has been assigned to come up with a plan to make this experience as safe as possible while also (trying to) not making it a miserable experience. Gooooooood luck.
Which district in OC are you in? We are in Orange Unified - will be all online initially, most likely at least until October but plans in place for longer. Students had to opt in to one of three options:
1. Return to school when available, whether that is hybrid or full
2. Full year online through your home school - meaning same teachers as at your school
3. Full year online through the online academy - meaning their teachers, not your normal school teachers
For resource planning, if you opted for full year online, it would be difficult to decide to go to in person, as they are planning classroom assignments and staffing needs based on how many say they will return in person.
B Maverick
Footballguy
Los Alamitos. They are waiting as long as they can to decide what they are going to do. A full decision as to how they will start (online, hybrid, full) will not be made until 8/17 at least.
Yesterday was the deadline to request a full year online. And like yours, if you opt for online, its for the year. They will let people apply in Dec to come back to in person for 2nd semester but that will depend on space and avail.
I didn't see it specifically detailed in our plan, but I feel like they will be dedicating teachers to online classes and those teachers will not have in person students. Thats why they want people to opt in early so they can set up staffing. That also means any student wanting to change from one to the other will need to find someone else to go the other way.
We had book pickup yesterday for our high school and middle school kids. First days of instruction are next week.
E2A: And there is not real clear instruction for how they will manage return to school and those that opted online for their home school, as it is supposed to be the same teachers, but they have no plan in place that I am aware of on how to have the class conducted both in person and online simultaneously.
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B Maverick
Footballguy
They pushed back the start to Aug 31 so they could wait as long as possible for a decision. I do feel they have put a lot of thought and effort into making sure all the angles are thought out, so I expect as soon as the decision is made, several emails providing more specifics will be sent out.
I have a friend who teaches in Norco and they started Tuesday with everyone online. She said day 1 was crazy but day 2 was easier.
Doug B
Footballguy
Just for the sake of comparison ... around here (New Orleans suburbs), parents sign their kids up for 100% online learning in 9-week blocks. So if parents want to start 100% online and then send their kids to campus** later, they have "decision windows" in mid-October 2020, early January 2021, and mid-March 2021.
** which is only 2 days a week, anyway. So the choice is between "5 days/week online" and "3 days/week online".
How far in advance do you have to inform the school - asking because one of the biggest issues administration is facing is the resource planning for onsite - so if suddenly 15 more 5th graders want to be on campus, they need to find another classroom - exponentially more difficult for middle and high school as now it is specific subjects, with varying levels that you are trying to juggle.
Doug B
Footballguy
I really don’t know ... it can’t be much more than a week in advance, though.
The “deadline” for deciding for the first nine weeks was July 31, but I’ve since learned that my son’s school has been loose about this. They’re pretty much letting parents decide at almost zero hour.
That said, my son’s school is going to be under 25% capacity ... adding a few last-minute kids won’t change things much.
JaxBill
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
My son's district is going back 5 days a week. First week is only two days based on last name just to go over rules and practice procedures.
District has allocated 1.5 million to improve ventilation. All fresh air dampers will run open where possible. Windows open weather permitting. Doors to gym and all wood/auto shops will remain open as those areas have brand new high volume ventilation systems that were installed like a year or two ago.
They have installed hand sanitizing stations in every classroom. Estimate that 30 gallons of sanitizer a day will be used.
I dont understand the metrics they put out for when remote learning would be triggered though. It was a cases/100k number but the number made no sense. Didnt match the city, state, or county data.
District has allocated 1.5 million to improve ventilation. All fresh air dampers will run open where possible. Windows open weather permitting. Doors to gym and all wood/auto shops will remain open as those areas have brand new high volume ventilation systems that were installed like a year or two ago.
They have installed hand sanitizing stations in every classroom. Estimate that 30 gallons of sanitizer a day will be used.
I dont understand the metrics they put out for when remote learning would be triggered though. It was a cases/100k number but the number made no sense. Didnt match the city, state, or county data.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Masks will also be required. Some people werent so happy about that.
"Six-foot distance and wearing masks are pagan rituals of satanic worshipers,” said parent Heidi Anderson. “My kids are Christian they are not subject to wearing masks.”
"Six-foot distance and wearing masks are pagan rituals of satanic worshipers,” said parent Heidi Anderson. “My kids are Christian they are not subject to wearing masks.”
B Maverick
Footballguy
Our district has said that if you don't wear masks, you will be moved out of in person and into 100% online. Will be interesting to see if that happens and how many parents actually put up a fight.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Doug B
Footballguy
Many school systems are adopting the Harvard Global Health Institute’s (HGHI) guidelines (short PDF here). For those seeing/hearing a heavy emphasis on cases per 100K, the HGHI guidelines are the genesis of that.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I had seen those before. The numbers my district put up were in the hundreds and werent daily rates. I was trying to calculate what they mean. Best I can come up with is an average of active cases among the two cities in the district. But even that doesnt add up. The graphic was in something that was emailed to me. I will try to find it on web or put on imgur and link it.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Reminds me of when I was in a college class and we had to present a short persuasive speech. One of the women in class was presenting a speech on why we should consider doing yoga.This was just some white girl doing yoga for exercise, nothing even remotely religious or spiritual. Yet, when she started, an older lady in class got super upset and interrupted her. She warned us all that yoga was the devil's work and this woman was trying to take us away from Jesus.
Shaft41
Footballguy
I teach junior high. Our district is going full days, in-person, 5 days a week. About 20-25% of our kids opted to remote learn from home. First day yesterday appeared to go as well as it could have. 100% mask compliance, although it was clear many didn't like it.
I just hope I don't walk into the bathroom and see any junior high kids mask debating.
I just hope I don't walk into the bathroom and see any junior high kids mask debating.
B Maverick
Footballguy
Looks like the District decided....
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I am getting really sick and tired of my tribe with all of this. Its maddening.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Galileo
Footballguy
My classroom this morning. I spent about an hour and a half folding these cheap ### shields for student desks. I suspect they will be destroyed by kids within a few weeks. They were already bending in places they weren't intended to bend as I was putting them together. I am fortunate enough to have a large room. We usually sit 2 people at each desk. I usually have them pushed together in pods for easy collaboration. I have sacrificed my lab work station tables to be used as student desks so kids can sit one to a table. Hard to tell in photo, but the ones in back are taller, counter height. Many kids don't like sitting at them because they are too high for comfort when sitting in a normal chair. The shields still have a protective covering still on them which is why the "windows" look frosted. They are clear. However, they have a big frame around them. If I sit behind one of them looking toward the front of the room, the frame blocks my view of the large TV screen mounted above my white boards. The frame also prevents full view of my white boards when looking left and right. The best part is the tech folks were kind enough to install web cams in all the rooms for the home school crowd. They have installed it above the TV looking towards the student desks...basically the same view as the picture I shared, but from a little bit higher... 
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end of the first day, half of the kids will be wearing those pretending to be a robot.
The Gator
Footballguy
I do laugh at some of the solutions - but I do appreciate that people are trying to come up with unique solutions to previously unforeseen issues.
That is still better than doing nothing.
But I do kind of question the wisdom of the "shields" - unless I am mistaken - the kids will be in chairs and completely outside the shield, and may even be leaning into the aisle to get a better view of the smart board/screen. So, I am not entirely sure what the shields are protecting.
Are kids required to be in masks, or is this essentially in lieu of masks?
That is still better than doing nothing.
But I do kind of question the wisdom of the "shields" - unless I am mistaken - the kids will be in chairs and completely outside the shield, and may even be leaning into the aisle to get a better view of the smart board/screen. So, I am not entirely sure what the shields are protecting.
Are kids required to be in masks, or is this essentially in lieu of masks?
Doug B
Footballguy
I know it wasn't your call to purchase those things.
Those kinds of shields on desks aren't going to help except perhaps to contain sneezes. Exhaled aerosols can still make the rounds of the room unless the HVAC system is exchanging the room's air often enough. Is that window open at the back right corner of the room?
Doug B
Footballguy
Galileo
Footballguy
Our administration's philosophy for safely going back is a "swiss cheese layer approach". There are holes in each safety measure, but layering many protocols together will help provide the best overall coverage. Kids must also wear masks. In rooms with normal student desks, the seating will be tighter and the shields probably offer more of a necessary barrier, but they just seem like they will get in the way more than anything. The window is not open in the photo, but the shade is up. I have three of these windows. They are capable of opening at the bottom...swing outward a short distance. Why do you ask?
Doug B
Footballguy
Running the AC with windows open allows for the air in the room to be exchanged frequently. Exhaled aerosols eventually make their way outside and don't build up to high levels in your classroom. They don't have to be wide open -- maybe 6 inches cracked is enough to make a difference.
Check with your school custodian -- some large institutional HVAC systems have dampers that allow exchange with outside air, as opposed to recirculating the same indoor air over and over. If your school's HVAC can control air exchange itself, you won't need to open windows.
desert rose
Footballguy
My classroom windows do not open....AT ALL. I've contemplated what to throw through the windows in case of an active shooter because there is only the one exit.
