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***Official Protest-RIOT Thread*** Police Officers fleeing Seattle and urban areas.


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2 hours ago, Bozeman Bruiser said:

Apparently 2 domestic terrorists (aka "peaceful" protesters) out looking to loot and burn a private business ran into a group of Wisconsin folk who were not having any of it. The domestic terrorists attacked one of the WI guys and caught some lead.They played the ol game "f around and find out". 

Domestic terrorism works well in liberal sanctuaries like Portland and Seattle, not so much in middle America.

Hopefully the media and politicians stop encouraging this behavior.

 

Twitter thread with the lead up and action (nsfw obviously):

https://mobile.twitter.com/Julio_Rosas11/status/1298474730966659072

I'm not 100% sure what the answer is, but I dont think it's that.   Not a fan if the destruction, but also not a fan of people showing up armed either.   Or were they specifically defending their own house or store? 

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Watched the livestreams and twitter videos of what went down.

It will be interesting to see how the msm covers it.

Summary:

2 dead, 1 wounded, all white. Shooter white.

One dead, bullet to the head, was on film yelling at group of armed guys screaming "shoot me n***a, shoot me n***a". He was held back by what appeared to be BLM/Antifa. He was bald, facial hair, very short, wearing extemely long jorts. Not your typical BLM/Antifa type. An hour or so later he is on film chasing one of the guys with a rifle into a parking lot and throws what appears to be a molotov cocktail at him (something on fire). Chases him behind a car, other guy puts a bullet in his head. People come up to administer aid, shooter loops around a few cars and comes and checks on him too. Gets on his cell phone, then walks away, you can hear him say "I killed someone", he runs off.

He is running down street and a group starts chasing him yelling for someone to stop him. You can see a guy with a backpack grab something from his rear waist. Shooter stumbles and falls, and is immediately surrounded by 2 people. One slams him in the head with a skateboard. Shooter puts a bullet in his belly, this is presumably death #2. The other guy puts hands in the air and backs off. Next, the guy who earlier grabbed something from his waistband approaches, tries to grab the rifle, and points handgun at the shooter, who is still on the ground. Shooter puts a bullet in this guys arm. This guy stumbles away and receives medical attention from a nearby livestreamer. He is missing a huge chunk of his arm and apparently drops his handgun here. He is likely the survivor. 

Shooter stands up, nobody else attacks him, you can hear gunfire in the distance, he raises weapon and looks around, then lowers weapon and leaves, heading up the road towards cops. Cops head past him towards the shooting scenes.

There is also video of the shooter hanging out with the cops and getting a bottle of water prior to all of this going down. 

There are tons of videos out there of everything described above. Based on the video evidence, it appears to be clear cut self defense. There is no evidence the shooter is "white supremacist" or "militia" or "Qanon" or "bugaloo" or any other boogeyman. He was just a local boy, who appears to be a teenager, out standing his ground for his community that was under attack (there is video of vandalism, looting, fires, on multiple businesses). A roided out guy was causing a ruckus and begging for violence, then started the violence, and received a dose of karma.

Fortunately no blacks were involved or harmed as that would likely only be used by the media and politicians to further their agenda of division. And fortunately for BLM/Antifa the hot head who started everything did not appear to be "one of them" but just a local moron out raging. The dead skateboard kid and one armed Steve both appeared to be Antifa.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Will the media sweep it under the rug since it was all white people and there is video of the "victims" attacking the shooter? It will be difficult for them to spin this as anti-BLM or Qanon or white supremacist motivated, although some will surely try. Will BLM/Antifa continue to riot/loot/burn/vandalize communities? Perhaps some of them got a reality check that destroying cities is all fun and games as long as you are collecting social media points but not everyone is going to roll out the welcome mat like the PNW.

 

eta: the 2 dead is based on NYT article from 30 minutes ago, I assume that is verified, but it is the NYT. From the videos, bullet in head guy was conscious after getting shot, bullet in stomach/chest guy was on ground not sure if moving, bullet in arm guy looked horrendous but survivable. Hospital was literally across the street for bullet in head guy, and a few hundred yards for other 2.

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7 minutes ago, Bozeman Bruiser said:

Watched the livestreams and twitter videos of what went down.

It will be interesting to see how the msm covers it.

Summary:

2 dead, 1 wounded, all white. Shooter white.

One dead, bullet to the head, was on film yelling at group of armed guys screaming "shoot me n***a, shoot me n***a". He was held back by what appeared to be BLM/Antifa. He was bald, facial hair, very short, wearing extemely long jorts. Not your typical BLM/Antifa type. An hour or so later he is on film chasing one of the guys with a rifle into a parking lot and throws what appears to be a molotov cocktail at him (something on fire). Chases him behind a car, other guy puts a bullet in his head. People come up to administer aid, shooter loops around a few cars and comes and checks on him too. Gets on his cell phone, then walks away, you can hear him say "I killed someone", he runs off.

He is running down street and a group starts chasing him yelling for someone to stop him. You can see a guy with a backpack grab something from his rear waist. Shooter stumbles and falls, and is immediately surrounded by 2 people. One slams him in the head with a skateboard. Shooter puts a bullet in his belly, this is presumably death #2. The other guy puts hands in the air and backs off. Next, the guy who earlier grabbed something from his waistband approaches, tries to grab the rifle, and points handgun at the shooter, who is still on the ground. Shooter puts a bullet in this guys arm. This guy stumbles away and receives medical attention from a nearby livestreamer. He is missing a huge chunk of his arm and apparently drops his handgun here. He is likely the survivor. 

Shooter stands up, nobody else attacks him, you can hear gunfire in the distance, he raises weapon and looks around, then lowers weapon and leaves, heading up the road towards cops. Cops head past him towards the shooting scenes.

There is also video of the shooter hanging out with the cops and getting a bottle of water prior to all of this going down. 

There are tons of videos out there of everything described above. Based on the video evidence, it appears to be clear cut self defense. There is no evidence the shooter is "white supremacist" or "militia" or "Qanon" or "bugaloo" or any other boogeyman. He was just a local boy, who appears to be a teenager, out standing his ground for his community that was under attack (there is video of vandalism, looting, fires, on multiple businesses). A roided out guy was causing a ruckus and begging for violence, then started the violence, and received a dose of karma.

Fortunately no blacks were involved or harmed as that would likely only be used by the media and politicians to further their agenda of division. And fortunately for BLM/Antifa the hot head who started everything did not appear to be "one of them" but just a local moron out raging. The dead skateboard kid and one armed Steve both appeared to be Antifa.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Will the media sweep it under the rug since it was all white people and there is video of the "victims" attacking the shooter? It will be difficult for them to spin this as anti-BLM or Qanon or white supremacist motivated, although some will surely try. Will BLM/Antifa continue to riot/loot/burn/vandalize communities? Perhaps some of them got a reality check that destroying cities is all fun and games as long as you are collecting social media points but not everyonen is going to roll out the welcome mat like the PNW.

 

eta: the 2 dead is based on NYT article from 30 minutes ago, I assume that is verified, but it is the NYT. From the videos, bullet in head guy was conscious after getting shot, bullet in stomach/chest guy was on ground not sure if moving, bullet in arm guy looked horrendous but survivable. Hospital was literally across the street for bullet in head guy, and a few hundred yards for other 2.

I followed everything closely. I am just now going to sleep. This is EXACTLY how I saw it play out. The only thing I will add is that either Mercado Media or the Lakota Lichtwalt stream interviewed four residents who lived right in front of where everything went down. He asked them what happened, and they stated that even before the rifle guy tripped and was attacked by skateboard/gun guy, he was actually hit in the head twice before tripping.

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2 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

I'm not 100% sure what the answer is, but I dont think it's that.   Not a fan if the destruction, but also not a fan of people showing up armed either.   Or were they specifically defending their own house or store? 

Based on that video, That guy fired 100% in self defense. The guy who was shot had a pistol in his hand. Many were armed.

If an armed, rioting mob is swarming me, I'm shooting to defend myself and you would too. 

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8 minutes ago, [icon] said:

Based on that video, That guy fired 100% in self defense. The guy who was shot had a pistol in his hand. Many were armed.

If an armed, rioting mob is swarming me, I'm shooting to defend myself and you would too. 

My question is why are they out there to begin with then?  

Again, the one side shouldn't be doing the violence and/or need to be armed.  But unless they are defending their property, I am not sure what the point of the the other group being out there and armed is either.  IMO at some point the self defense argument doesn't fly if you know what is going on out there and decide to purposely go out with a gun and walk into it. 

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10 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

My question is why are they out there to begin with then?  

Again, the one side shouldn't be doing the violence and/or need to be armed.  But unless they are defending their property, I am not sure what the point of the the other group being out there and armed is either.  IMO at some point the self defense argument doesn't fly if you know what is going on out there and decide to purposely go out with a gun and walk into it. 

They were defending a business, as explained by @Bozeman Bruiser. There is footage of them standing out front peacefully protecting the business and got antagonized increasingly by rioters. 
 

Angry White bald midget dude Yelling "shoot me #####" in this video (1:10ish) is reportedly the one who got shot in the head after chasing/cornering one of the guys defending the business and throwing a maltov cocktail at him (per Bozeman bruiser above). 

See armed citizens protecting their business? Move on and burn/rob/destroy somewhere else. 

It's asinine to me that some people see a felonious mob committing arson, robbery, And assault.... see them attack someone defending their property... and can somehow blame the citizen defending their property/family/selves.

Anyone with that mindset can miss me... you're on the wrong side of this one. If someone is retreating and you physically assault them with a deadly weapon, you deserve the lead coming your way. Period. 

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13 minutes ago, [icon] said:

They were defending a business, as explained by @Bozeman Bruiser. There is footage of them standing out front peacefully protecting the business and got antagonized increasingly by rioters. 
 

Angry White bald midget dude Yelling "shoot me #####" in this video (1:10ish) is reportedly the one who got shot in the head after chasing/cornering one of the guys defending the business and throwing a maltov cocktail at him (per Bozeman bruiser above). 

See armed citizens protecting their business? Move on and burn/rob/destroy somewhere else. 

It's asinine to me that some people see a felonious mob committing arson, robbery, And assault.... see them attack someone defending their property... and can somehow blame the citizen defending their property/family/selves.

Anyone with that mindset can miss me... you're on the wrong side of this one. If someone is retreating and you physically assault them with a deadly weapon, you deserve the lead coming your way. Period. 

The leadership in these cities and states are beyond embarrassing...either make sure your streets are safe or ask for help if you can not...there is no middle ground.

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4 minutes ago, Workhorse said:

In watching the video, it seems like a case could be made for the first couple of shots being self-defense. But what justification is there for the several audible shots fired after people have scattered due to the first few?

Scroll down to the first video in this article (btw, this article covers a ton on the shooting incidents and you can really piece together what happened). I think those second shots are when the dude with the pistol who has his arm shredded, first backs away with his arms raised, but then, inexplicably, tries to run kind of by the rifle guy and then gets shot in the arm.  I really want to know for sure if the guy on the ground with the head wound is, indeed, the rabble rouser, smaller Steve Austin look a-like from the main protestor confrontation video.  He really was acting crazy.

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34 minutes ago, [icon] said:

They were defending a business, as explained by @Bozeman Bruiser. There is footage of them standing out front peacefully protecting the business and got antagonized increasingly by rioters. 
 

Angry White bald midget dude Yelling "shoot me #####" in this video (1:10ish) is reportedly the one who got shot in the head after chasing/cornering one of the guys defending the business and throwing a maltov cocktail at him (per Bozeman bruiser above). 

See armed citizens protecting their business? Move on and burn/rob/destroy somewhere else. 

It's asinine to me that some people see a felonious mob committing arson, robbery, And assault.... see them attack someone defending their property... and can somehow blame the citizen defending their property/family/selves.

Anyone with that mindset can miss me... you're on the wrong side of this one. If someone is retreating and you physically assault them with a deadly weapon, you deserve the lead coming your way. Period. 

Thought I was clear, but I don't think either group should be out there doing what they are doing.     What I am trying to figure out is  - are they protecting THEIR business, or are they protecting A business?  To me that is a distinction that needs to be made.   I think is it's a bit different if I go down to Madison to try to prevent something bad happening to my business vs. going down to some random business to stand out front of it.   

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10 minutes ago, Workhorse said:

Wait, I’m reading reports that this was a 17 year old kid who did the shooting? If so, he was possessing a long gun illegally in the first place.

He did look pretty darn young in those videos and still-photos.  He also was wearing latex gloves.  Covid? or Fingerprint adverse?

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1 hour ago, Workhorse said:

In watching the video, it seems like a case could be made for the first couple of shots being self-defense. But what justification is there for the several audible shots fired after people have scattered due to the first few?

Those were not the same shooter. It was off to the side based on videos I saw. Lots of the videos here.

[GRAPHIC WARNING]
https://hoodsite.com/video-rioter-shot-head-kenosha-two-others-injured-trying-assault-shooter/

Once they stop trying to lynch the shooter he stands up and continues retreating to the police... puts hands up, tells the cops to go treat the wounded, then approaches a police car (presumably to tell them what happened) 

Thats how it appears so far. 

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7 hours ago, rockaction said:

This is a stupid debate to have with people insistent there's no problem or a justification of the riots. It seems that one may be bullyragged and made to kowtow to BLM at all times. If one doesn't, one is subject to violence.

Idiocy like this is how Trump might actually win again. Because the immediate threat of violence and compulsion that the stupidity of the left endorses might be worse than his anti-democratic impulses.

I don't think anyone is saying there is no problem or justifying riots.  Explaining why people may feel differently is not the same as condoning and justifying.

 

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6 hours ago, Bozeman Bruiser said:

The irony of the media and lefties trying to paint the "Qanon" group as terrorists when BLM/Antifa have been committing acts of violence, destruction, and hatred across America for nearly 100 days now.

Projection at its finest. 

Even Don Lemon said tonight that this violent riotiing is backfiring.

I suspect their handlers will call them off by Labor Day. Domestic terrorism is not how you win the vote.

its not the media who painted Qanon that...its the FBI.

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26 minutes ago, Workhorse said:

Dude. Be better than this.

 

:confused:

lynch

"To lynch is to murder, or unlawfully kill. When an angry mob kills someone they believe is guilty of a crime, they lynch that person."

 

When a mob of armed People swarm and attack an individual, use of the term lynch is entirely appropriate. 

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46 minutes ago, [icon] said:

Those were not the same shooter. It was off to the side based on videos I saw. Lots of the videos here.

https://hoodsite.com/video-rioter-shot-head-kenosha-two-others-injured-trying-assault-shooter/

Once they stop trying to lynch the shooter he stands up and continues retreating to the police... puts hands up, tells the cops to go treat the wounded, then approaches a police car (presumably to tell them what happened) 

Thats how it appears so far. 

Ugh, while seeing the video of the dude's shredded arm is objectively gross, it doesn't bother me as knowing he's likely ok.  Seeing the footage of the dude basically seizing after getting shot in the head (though not much gore at all), don't think I can un-see that. :(

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20 minutes ago, E Street Brat said:

Remember when that Riverco dude was mocked endlessly and I think banned for predicting this type of thing? 


I've been saying this for a couple years too. This is just the tip of the iceberg. 
 

Nobody in their right mind wants to be a cop now, so you're getting a force of either aggro vindictive types, of people not competent enough for other roles... both of which will result in more police violence issues. This is a self-feeding loop. 

People have generally been okay with letting protests do their thing.... then Arsonists started to burn #### down and patience started wearing thin. 
 

Now rioters are Mistaking that patience as weakness and attacking Random folks. Swarming cars,  attacking diners peacefully eating on a patio, etc.

Patience is wearing thin, and a LOT more of these idiots are going to begin facing consequences for these actions. Not endorsing either side, just being realistic... these Mobs aren't going to be able to continue burning ####, attacking people, etc without getting shot. 

 


 

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6 minutes ago, [icon] said:

:confused:

lynch

"To lynch is to murder, or unlawfully kill. When an angry mob kills someone they believe is guilty of a crime, they lynch that person."

 

When a mob of armed People swarm and attack an individual, use of the term lynch is entirely appropriate. 

Funny how you didn't quote the clear racial overtones of the word from your own link:

Through history, when a group of people murders someone, especially by hanging him by the neck, they are usually said to lynch him. This was unfortunately not uncommon during the Civil Rights struggle of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries in the American South: if a white community believed an African American had done something wrong, they would sometimes lynch him. Lynch is named after Justice Charles Lynch, who condoned mob justice during the American Revolution.

It's an inflammatory word choice. As I said initially, be better than this.

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4 minutes ago, Workhorse said:

Funny how you didn't quote the clear racial overtones of the word from your own link:

Through history, when a group of people murders someone, especially by hanging him by the neck, they are usually said to lynch him. This was unfortunately not uncommon during the Civil Rights struggle of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries in the American South: if a white community believed an African American had done something wrong, they would sometimes lynch him. Lynch is named after Justice Charles Lynch, who condoned mob justice during the American Revolution.

It's an inflammatory word choice. As I said initially, be better than this.

:lol: Everyone involved in these shootings was white, stop trying to be woke and injecting race where it isn't a factor. 

If you require use of a nerfed vocabulary, maybe this isn't the forum for you. Or just ignore me. Feature is right up there in the menu up top. Makes zero difference to me. 
 

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3 hours ago, Bozeman Bruiser said:

Watched the livestreams and twitter videos of what went down.

It will be interesting to see how the msm covers it.

Summary:

2 dead, 1 wounded, all white. Shooter white.

One dead, bullet to the head, was on film yelling at group of armed guys screaming "shoot me n***a, shoot me n***a". He was held back by what appeared to be BLM/Antifa. He was bald, facial hair, very short, wearing extemely long jorts. Not your typical BLM/Antifa type. An hour or so later he is on film chasing one of the guys with a rifle into a parking lot and throws what appears to be a molotov cocktail at him (something on fire). Chases him behind a car, other guy puts a bullet in his head. People come up to administer aid, shooter loops around a few cars and comes and checks on him too. Gets on his cell phone, then walks away, you can hear him say "I killed someone", he runs off.

He is running down street and a group starts chasing him yelling for someone to stop him. You can see a guy with a backpack grab something from his rear waist. Shooter stumbles and falls, and is immediately surrounded by 2 people. One slams him in the head with a skateboard. Shooter puts a bullet in his belly, this is presumably death #2. The other guy puts hands in the air and backs off. Next, the guy who earlier grabbed something from his waistband approaches, tries to grab the rifle, and points handgun at the shooter, who is still on the ground. Shooter puts a bullet in this guys arm. This guy stumbles away and receives medical attention from a nearby livestreamer. He is missing a huge chunk of his arm and apparently drops his handgun here. He is likely the survivor. 

Shooter stands up, nobody else attacks him, you can hear gunfire in the distance, he raises weapon and looks around, then lowers weapon and leaves, heading up the road towards cops. Cops head past him towards the shooting scenes.

There is also video of the shooter hanging out with the cops and getting a bottle of water prior to all of this going down. 

There are tons of videos out there of everything described above. Based on the video evidence, it appears to be clear cut self defense. There is no evidence the shooter is "white supremacist" or "militia" or "Qanon" or "bugaloo" or any other boogeyman. He was just a local boy, who appears to be a teenager, out standing his ground for his community that was under attack (there is video of vandalism, looting, fires, on multiple businesses). A roided out guy was causing a ruckus and begging for violence, then started the violence, and received a dose of karma.

Fortunately no blacks were involved or harmed as that would likely only be used by the media and politicians to further their agenda of division. And fortunately for BLM/Antifa the hot head who started everything did not appear to be "one of them" but just a local moron out raging. The dead skateboard kid and one armed Steve both appeared to be Antifa.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Will the media sweep it under the rug since it was all white people and there is video of the "victims" attacking the shooter? It will be difficult for them to spin this as anti-BLM or Qanon or white supremacist motivated, although some will surely try. Will BLM/Antifa continue to riot/loot/burn/vandalize communities? Perhaps some of them got a reality check that destroying cities is all fun and games as long as you are collecting social media points but not everyone is going to roll out the welcome mat like the PNW.

 

eta: the 2 dead is based on NYT article from 30 minutes ago, I assume that is verified, but it is the NYT. From the videos, bullet in head guy was conscious after getting shot, bullet in stomach/chest guy was on ground not sure if moving, bullet in arm guy looked horrendous but survivable. Hospital was literally across the street for bullet in head guy, and a few hundred yards for other 2.

So is was whitey shooting whitey. Bad thing someone was shot, good thing is there should be no riot over this one.

The mob has no fear and has been allowed to do as they please in many cities so expect more of these type of  incidents.

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4 minutes ago, Summer Wheat said:

So is was whitey shooting whitey. Bad thing someone was shot, good thing is there should be no riot over this one.

The mob has no fear and has been allowed to do as they please in many cities so expect more of these type of  incidents.

Can we all agree that mobs are bad....violent mobs are bad.  And that armed vigilantes are bad as well?  Defend yourself and home...but don't go seek it.  I agree with KP earlier that its one thing to defend your own business or home (though, I think defending the business is not a wise move)...but if they are out there just "defending the neighborhood businesses", sorry, you are also acting outside the law.  And when everyone arms themselves against other citizens, no good can come of it.

 

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8 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Can we all agree that mobs are bad....violent mobs are bad.  And that armed vigilantes are bad as well?  Defend yourself and home...but don't go seek it.  I agree with KP earlier that its one thing to defend your own business or home (though, I think defending the business is not a wise move)...but if they are out there just "defending the neighborhood businesses", sorry, you are also acting outside the law.  And when everyone arms themselves against other citizens, no good can come of it.

 

Yes..totally agree. When mobs are allowed to rule the streets without intervention then people arm themselves to protect lives and property. It is a vicious circle.  

"So called "peaceful" protests should happen during the day where people speak and have conversation about issues.   The nightly gatherings are intended to be peaceful, not leading to solving an type of problems, only as we have all seen making things much worse. 

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27 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Can we all agree that mobs are bad....violent mobs are bad.  And that armed vigilantes are bad as well?  Defend yourself and home...but don't go seek it.  I agree with KP earlier that its one thing to defend your own business or home (though, I think defending the business is not a wise move)...but if they are out there just "defending the neighborhood businesses", sorry, you are also acting outside the law.  And when everyone arms themselves against other citizens, no good can come of it.

 

I agree that I would never go out to try to defend a business that I didn't own. That's asking for trouble that I want no part of. 

I don't THINK I'd go defend my own business if I was properly insured, but I can't blame folks who do. For many that's their entire livelihood. Their life. Anyone demonizing them for attempting to protect that has a horribly skewed perspective, IMO. 

Armed "Vigilantes" (not really the best term given these folks generally aren't initiating violence, but acting in defense), are certainly not helping matters by grouping on corners near riot areas. That said, I place the VAST majority of the blame on the instigators.... the folks committing robbery and arson, the ones approaching, screaming at, and sometimes assaulting or throwing moltov cocktails at the "Vigilantes". Nobody in that scenario is innocent, but this is on the rioters. 

Hopefully as people begin to stand up to them, they'll become less emboldened and stick to less violent and destructive means of protest. 

It is interesting to note that the majority of the folks smashing cars, burning buildings, etc in last night's videos are indeed white. There's little doubt that socialist/anarchists, NOT BLM, are the main driving force behind these incidents when they get ugly. It's unfortunate that BLM is getting pulled into this by many Trump supporters. 

 

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18 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

  I agree with KP earlier that its one thing to defend your own business or home (though, I think defending the business is not a wise move)...but if they are out there just "defending the neighborhood businesses", sorry, you are also acting outside the law. .

 

I strongly disagree

🤷🏻‍♂️

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24 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Can we all agree that mobs are bad....violent mobs are bad.  And that armed vigilantes are bad as well?  Defend yourself and home...but don't go seek it.  I agree with KP earlier that its one thing to defend your own business or home (though, I think defending the business is not a wise move)...but if they are out there just "defending the neighborhood businesses", sorry, you are also acting outside the law.  And when everyone arms themselves against other citizens, no good can come of it.

 

Are you saying they're equally wrong? If not, how do they compare?

On a scale of 1 (not wrong) to 10 (totally wrong) what's your score for:

- Guy rioting with a baseball bat intent on smashing store front window

- Guy who just loves his neighborhood (not store owner) with a baseball bat intent on defending store front from the guy who wants to smash it.

- Store owner with a baseball bat intent on defending store front from the guy who wants to smash it.

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3 minutes ago, [icon] said:

I agree that I would never go out to try to defend a business that I didn't own. That's asking for trouble that I want no part of. 

I don't THINK I'd go defend my own business if I was properly insured, but I can't blame folks who do. For many that's their entire livelihood. Their life. Anyone demonizing them for attempting to protect that has a horribly skewed perspective, IMO. 

Armed "Vigilantes" (not really the best term given these folks generally aren't initiating violence, but acting in defense), are certainly not helping matters by grouping on corners near riot areas. That said, I place the VAST majority of the blame on the instigators.... the folks committing robbery and arson, the ones approaching, screaming at, and sometimes assaulting or throwing moltov cocktails at the "Vigilantes". Nobody in that scenario is innocent, but this is on the rioters. 

Hopefully as people begin to stand up to them, they'll become less emboldened and stick to less violent and destructive means of protest. 

It is interesting to note that the majority of the folks smashing cars, burning buildings, etc in last night's videos are indeed white. There's little doubt that socialist/anarchists, NOT BLM, are the main driving force behind these incidents when they get ugly. 

lol, come on. You used to be better than that.

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1 minute ago, Joe Bryant said:

Are you saying they're equally wrong? If not, how do they compare?

On a scale of 1 (not wrong) to 10 (totally wrong) what's your score for:

- Guy rioting with a baseball bat intent on smashing store front window

- Guy who just loves his neighborhood (not store owner) with a baseball bat intent on defending store front from the guy who wants to smash it.

- Store owner with a baseball bat intent on defending store front from the guy who wants to smash it.

No...I am not saying they are equal.

And id put 10 on the first guy.   Less on the store owner but that and the middle will depend in who initiates any actual violence 

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23 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Can we all agree that mobs are bad....violent mobs are bad.  And that armed vigilantes are bad as well?  Defend yourself and home...but don't go seek it.  I agree with KP earlier that its one thing to defend your own business or home (though, I think defending the business is not a wise move)...but if they are out there just "defending the neighborhood businesses", sorry, you are also acting outside the law.  And when everyone arms themselves against other citizens, no good can come of it.

 

To be clear, this is dependent on local laws, however in most areas this is happening open carry is perfectly legal. This has been covered in many articles, and generally the "armed militia" types that are providing overwatch commit no crimes, and respect curfews where imposed. While I don't disagree that it runs the risk of helping escalate things... it's perfectly within their rights and the vast majority are extremely peaceful and just trying to stop criminals from destroying their neighborhoods. 

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7 minutes ago, [icon] said:

It is interesting to note that the majority of the folks smashing cars, burning buildings, etc in last night's videos are indeed white. There's little doubt that socialist/anarchists, NOT BLM, are the main driving force behind these incidents when they get ugly. 

I agree. While there are racial components to this, it seems more about "eat the rich" class warfare than racially motivated.

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3 minutes ago, mcintyre1 said:

lol, come on. You used to be better than that.

You don't think socialist/communists are involved in this? I suggest you get on Twitter...

To be clear I don't think all socialists are violent rioters. Never intended to imply that. However there are indeed socialist/communist groups aligning with the antifa/anarchist types and are heavily involved in this riots. There's little doubt there's an overt attempt to destabilize the country right now. Anyone not seeing that isn't paying attention. 

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4 minutes ago, [icon] said:

It is interesting to note that the majority of the folks smashing cars, burning buildings, etc in last night's videos are indeed white. There's little doubt that socialist/anarchists, NOT BLM, are the main driving force behind these incidents when they get ugly. 

It's impossible and futile to separate BLM, defund police, "summer of love", and anarchists and others into different groups for purposes of assigning blame.

Supporters of each can be found in every recent anti-police/anti-authority incident and are also providing cover for each other for acts of violence. 

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8 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

No...I am not saying they are equal.

And id put 10 on the first guy.   Less on the store owner but that and the middle will depend in who initiates any actual violence 

What score on the store owner and what score on the neighborhood guy?

Assume the first guy hits them on the way to smashing a window. 

 

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7 minutes ago, jamny said:

I agree. While there are racial components to this, it seems more about "eat the rich" class warfare than racially motivated.

I would agree here. 

BLM is pissed (justifiably) and GENERALLY protests in a fairly organized and peaceful manner. There are bad apples, and there are idiots co-opting the message to attack innocent people, but generally speaking I think the BLM movement is getting some undue heat. There's some opportunistic looting that occurs at some of these events but generally I think that's peripheral to the core movement. 

Antifa/Anti-Capitalist/Anarchists are driving a sub-movement that are opportunistic criminals....  they are of the "Eat the Rich" mentality, and try to run under cover of legitimate protests to burn, attack police, destroy businesses, etc. They're becoming increasingly coordinated. They're well funded (From somewhere). They're the biggest problem we face right now, IMO. 

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IMO: 
 

On a scale of 1 (not wrong) to 10 (totally wrong) what's your score for:

10 - Guy rioting with a baseball bat intent on smashing store front window

3* - Guy who just loves his neighborhood (not store owner) with a baseball bat intent on defending store front from the guy who wants to smash it.

1 - Store owner with a baseball bat intent on defending store front from the guy who wants to smash it.

* Assumes he's standing there peacefully unless violence is initiated by dip#### rioter. He's undoubtedly adding an element of escalation and providing another opportunity for a flashpoint, but he's lawful and morally sound in his actions.  

 

 

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4 hours ago, Bozeman Bruiser said:

Watched the livestreams and twitter videos of what went down.

It will be interesting to see how the msm covers it.

Summary:

2 dead, 1 wounded, all white. Shooter white.

One dead, bullet to the head, was on film yelling at group of armed guys screaming "shoot me n***a, shoot me n***a". He was held back by what appeared to be BLM/Antifa. He was bald, facial hair, very short, wearing extemely long jorts. Not your typical BLM/Antifa type. An hour or so later he is on film chasing one of the guys with a rifle into a parking lot and throws what appears to be a molotov cocktail at him (something on fire). Chases him behind a car, other guy puts a bullet in his head. People come up to administer aid, shooter loops around a few cars and comes and checks on him too. Gets on his cell phone, then walks away, you can hear him say "I killed someone", he runs off.

He is running down street and a group starts chasing him yelling for someone to stop him. You can see a guy with a backpack grab something from his rear waist. Shooter stumbles and falls, and is immediately surrounded by 2 people. One slams him in the head with a skateboard. Shooter puts a bullet in his belly, this is presumably death #2. The other guy puts hands in the air and backs off. Next, the guy who earlier grabbed something from his waistband approaches, tries to grab the rifle, and points handgun at the shooter, who is still on the ground. Shooter puts a bullet in this guys arm. This guy stumbles away and receives medical attention from a nearby livestreamer. He is missing a huge chunk of his arm and apparently drops his handgun here. He is likely the survivor. 

Shooter stands up, nobody else attacks him, you can hear gunfire in the distance, he raises weapon and looks around, then lowers weapon and leaves, heading up the road towards cops. Cops head past him towards the shooting scenes.

There is also video of the shooter hanging out with the cops and getting a bottle of water prior to all of this going down. 

There are tons of videos out there of everything described above. Based on the video evidence, it appears to be clear cut self defense. There is no evidence the shooter is "white supremacist" or "militia" or "Qanon" or "bugaloo" or any other boogeyman. He was just a local boy, who appears to be a teenager, out standing his ground for his community that was under attack (there is video of vandalism, looting, fires, on multiple businesses). A roided out guy was causing a ruckus and begging for violence, then started the violence, and received a dose of karma.

Fortunately no blacks were involved or harmed as that would likely only be used by the media and politicians to further their agenda of division. And fortunately for BLM/Antifa the hot head who started everything did not appear to be "one of them" but just a local moron out raging. The dead skateboard kid and one armed Steve both appeared to be Antifa.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Will the media sweep it under the rug since it was all white people and there is video of the "victims" attacking the shooter? It will be difficult for them to spin this as anti-BLM or Qanon or white supremacist motivated, although some will surely try. Will BLM/Antifa continue to riot/loot/burn/vandalize communities? Perhaps some of them got a reality check that destroying cities is all fun and games as long as you are collecting social media points but not everyone is going to roll out the welcome mat like the PNW.

 

eta: the 2 dead is based on NYT article from 30 minutes ago, I assume that is verified, but it is the NYT. From the videos, bullet in head guy was conscious after getting shot, bullet in stomach/chest guy was on ground not sure if moving, bullet in arm guy looked horrendous but survivable. Hospital was literally across the street for bullet in head guy, and a few hundred yards for other 2.

How do you know they are BLM/Antifa and who are these criminals’ “handlers”?

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8 hours ago, Bozeman Bruiser said:

Apparently 2 domestic terrorists (aka "peaceful" protesters) out looking to loot and burn a private business ran into a group of Wisconsin folk who were not having any of it. The domestic terrorists attacked one of the WI guys and caught some lead.They played the ol game "f around and find out". 

Domestic terrorism works well in liberal sanctuaries like Portland ca.and Seattle, not so much in middle America

Hopefully the media and politicians stop encouraging this behavior.

 

Twitter thread with the lead up and action (nsfw obviously):

https://mobile.twitter.com/Julio_Rosas11/status/1298474730966659072

Very interesting take here but probably correct.

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2 minutes ago, [icon] said:

IMO: 
 

On a scale of 1 (not wrong) to 10 (totally wrong) what's your score for:

10 - Guy rioting with a baseball bat intent on smashing store front window

3* - Guy who just loves his neighborhood (not store owner) with a baseball bat intent on defending store front from the guy who wants to smash it.

1 - Store owner with a baseball bat intent on defending store front from the guy who wants to smash it.

* Assumes he's standing there peacefully unless violence is initiated by dip#### rioter. He's undoubtedly adding an element of escalation and providing another opportunity for a flashpoint, but he's lawful and morally sound in his actions.  

 

 

I can see that.

What is your score on these @sho nuff?

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1 minute ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Not sure why people are surprised that bad things happen when rioters and vigilantes collide.  If only there were some sort of government-run force that could police the community instead.

I think the problem may be that the indicated force appears unable to do so with indiscriminately injuring and killing innocent people?

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21 minutes ago, [icon] said:

IMO: 
 

On a scale of 1 (not wrong) to 10 (totally wrong) what's your score for:

10 - Guy rioting with a baseball bat intent on smashing store front window

3* - Guy who just loves his neighborhood (not store owner) with a baseball bat intent on defending store front from the guy who wants to smash it.

1 - Store owner with a baseball bat intent on defending store front from the guy who wants to smash it.

* Assumes he's standing there peacefully unless violence is initiated by dip#### rioter. He's undoubtedly adding an element of escalation and providing another opportunity for a flashpoint, but he's lawful and morally sound in his actions.  

 

 

I agree on store owner and rioter. If you bring a bat, you are no longer a protestor you are a rioter. 
As for the guy who loves his neighborhood, there are a variety of questions I have. 
When you say “the neighborhood” it sounds like the guy lives nearby (let’s say within 2 mile radius?). I don’t have a problem with this, and rate it a 3 as well. If you’re arming yourself and driving an hour to where the protests are happening and standing across from protestors/rioters and exchanging verbal barbs it isn’t helping anything, and I’d rate it a 10. Proud boys/antifa showing up to protest/counter protest in body armor and helmets are all 10. It simply shouldn’t be allowed. 

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7 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Not sure why people are surprised that bad things happen when rioters and vigilantes collide.  If only there were some sort of government-run force that could police the community instead.

It's sad beyond words that there isn't a serious policy discussion about policing beyond defund or send in the Feds. It's just a ridiculous lack of leadership.

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25 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

I agree on store owner and rioter. If you bring a bat, you are no longer a protestor you are a rioter. 
As for the guy who loves his neighborhood, there are a variety of questions I have. 
When you say “the neighborhood” it sounds like the guy lives nearby (let’s say within 2 mile radius?). I don’t have a problem with this, and rate it a 3 as well. If you’re arming yourself and driving an hour to where the protests are happening and standing across from protestors/rioters and exchanging verbal barbs it isn’t helping anything, and I’d rate it a 10. Proud boys/antifa showing up to protest/counter protest in body armor and helmets are all 10. It simply shouldn’t be allowed. 

That's an interesting rating. 

So people running around with bats smashing and burning things = 10
Guy from one town over coming and standing with a bat trying to stop an innocent business from getting smashed or burned = The Same? 

I'm not gonna lie... that sounds kinda silly. :lol: 

I'd put someone driving in from a town over as maybe a 4. They're still obeying laws, not instigating, and are attempting to protect an innocent family's livelyhood. 

 

Bottom Line:

Blaming a nonviolent individual for defending someone's business from criminals/arsonists/thieves is like blaming a woman for her rape because she was wearing a minidress. 

Did the sexy outfit possibly increase her risk of being raped? possibly. Is it against the law for her to wear that dress, or should she expect to be subject to violence/crime for doing so? No. definitely, not a perfect analogy in the sense that the woman wasn't trying to STOP crime by her actions, whereas the others were. 

 

 



 

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  • Summer Wheat changed the title to ***Official Protest-RIOT Thread*** Police Officers fleeing Seattle and urban areas.

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