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How do you identify politically


How would you describe your political views?  

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5 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

It is not a mystery at all.  It is your condescending tone towards conservative and conservative ideas.  It is statement such as "you won't get a substantive discussion out of either of them" and "They like to just throw out generalizations and try and cram you in a box because they don't agree with you".  That is pretty typical of your rhetoric and a perfect example of why you are seen as a liberal.

Who said it was a mystery?  It's weird that you'd attempt to frame this as "Commish is catching flack for his conservative positions because he has a condescending tone towards those conservative positions".  It's also interesting that you'd go "personal" (by your standard anyway) after being on that soapbox of yours regarding going "personal".  It's true that there are many (what is labeled today as) "conservative" positions I find dumb.  The same is true with liberal positions.  The differences in my interactions (in this forum specifically) is one group will have a conversation with me and ultimately we agree to disagree, the other feels the need to get defensive that I don't see things in lock step with them and proceed to label me as something I'm not.  It's on full display in your comment.  Because I have a completely justified opinion that runs against "conservative" posters here means I'm a liberal....wonderful logic you've come up with there.  This is pure social BS and has absolutely nothing to do with the positions I hold.  Many here seem to get that.  You don't apparently.  You are hellbent on putting me in a box created by your preconceived notions.  I'd rather you just put me on ignore.  That's your decision though.

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2 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Who said it was a mystery?  It's weird that you'd attempt to frame this as "Commish is catching flack for his conservative positions because he has a condescending tone towards those conservative positions".  It's also interesting that you'd go "personal" (by your standard anyway) after being on that soapbox of yours regarding going "personal".  It's true that there are many (what is labeled today as) "conservative" positions I find dumb.  The same is true with liberal positions.  The differences in my interactions (in this forum specifically) is one group will have a conversation with me and ultimately we agree to disagree, the other feels the need to get defensive that I don't see things in lock step with them and proceed to label me as something I'm not.  It's on full display in your comment.  Because I have a completely justified opinion that runs against "conservative" posters here means I'm a liberal....wonderful logic you've come up with there.  This is pure social BS and has absolutely nothing to do with the positions I hold.  Many here seem to get that.  You don't apparently.  You are hellbent on putting me in a box created by your preconceived notions.  I'd rather you just put me on ignore.  That's your decision though.

I see this all the time on FB.  In my opinion, many 'conservatives' prefer to live in a bubble where everyone agrees with them.  They post their memes, they post their anti-lib comments, they praise everything Trump does and turn a blind eye to his errors, and then sit back and enjoy the likes and agreeable comments.  I've even had a family member go off on some anti-lib diatribe about his governor before requesting, "if you disagree with this, please keep it to yourself." 

 

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2 minutes ago, Captain Cranks said:

I see this all the time on FB.  In my opinion, many 'conservatives' prefer to live in a bubble where everyone agrees with them.  They post their memes, they post their anti-lib comments, they praise everything Trump does and turn a blind eye to his errors, and then sit back and enjoy the likes and agreeable comments.  I've even had a family member go off on some anti-lib diatribe about his governor before requesting, "if you disagree with this, please keep it to yourself." 

 

The reality of this is provably wrong.  It is not conservatives who shout down liberal speakers.  It is exclusively liberals.  It is not conservatives responsible for the cancel culture.  It is pretty much all liberals.  This forum is a prime example, where conservative posters get reported at nearly an 8 to 1 rate.  This forum has virtually been cleansed of conservative posters.  To claim it is conservatives who prefer to live in a bubble is an absurd claim.  

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9 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

The reality of this is provably wrong.  It is not conservatives who shout down liberal speakers.  It is exclusively liberals.  It is not conservatives responsible for the cancel culture.  It is pretty much all liberals.  This forum is a prime example, where conservative posters get reported at nearly an 8 to 1 rate.  This forum has virtually been cleansed of conservative posters.  To claim it is conservatives who prefer to live in a bubble is an absurd claim.  

Re: the bolded items, in order.

"Provably wrong" implies you have proof.  Care to show it?

"Exclusively"?  Don't be silly.  No conservative has ever done this?  Ever?

You like to argue that "blacks commit more crimes, which is the reason arrest/violence rates are disproportionate".  Maybe conservative posters have a higher incident of report-worthy posts?

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14 minutes ago, Rich Conway said:

Re: the bolded items, in order.

"Provably wrong" implies you have proof.  Care to show it?

"Exclusively"?  Don't be silly.  No conservative has ever done this?  Ever?

You like to argue that "blacks commit more crimes, which is the reason arrest/violence rates are disproportionate".  Maybe conservative posters have a higher incident of report-worthy posts?

I can list many of conservatives or controversial speakers banned or intimidated from speaking by college campuses leftists.  This list is from 2016.     It has been decades since I have heard of any conservative banning a liberal speaker.  When it comes to censorship and safe spaces, liberals are the kings.  I really can't see how it is even debatable.  Of course the reverse has happened in history, but I have demonstrated what is happening in current history.

 

California State University at Los Angeles — Ben Shapiro

University of California at Berkeley — Nicholas Dirks

University of Chicago — Anita Alvarez

University of Chicago — Bassem Eid

George Washington University — Action Bronson

Trinity College — Action Bronson

Hampshire College — Emily Wong

University of Pennsylvania — John Brennan

San Francisco State University — Nir Barkat

Virginia Tech — Jason Riley

Williams College — John Derbyshire

Williams College — Suzanne Venker

 

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2 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

I can list many of conservatives speakers banned or intimidated from speaking at college campuses.  This list is from 2016.     It has been decades since I have heard of any conservative banning a liberal speaker.  When it comes to censorship and safe spaces, liberals are the kings.  I really can't see how it is even debatable.  Of course the reverse has happened in history, but I have demonstrated what is happening in current history.

 

California State University at Los Angeles — Ben Shapiro

University of California at Berkeley — Nicholas Dirks

University of Chicago — Anita Alvarez

University of Chicago — Bassem Eid

George Washington University — Action Bronson

Trinity College — Action Bronson

Hampshire College — Emily Wong

University of Pennsylvania — John Brennan

San Francisco State University — Nir Barkat

Virginia Tech — Jason Riley

Williams College — John Derbyshire

Williams College — Suzanne Venker

 

The colleges “woke” shutting down of people speaking at said colleges is one of the stranger things I’ve seen.  College are literally supposed to be the bastion and epicenter of the free exchange of ideas. 

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1 hour ago, Captain Cranks said:

Obviously I'm talking about the pattern of behavior, not the depth of the relationship or what is owed to the other.  If this incident was in isolation, sure, it's respectable.  However, this is just another iteration of a larger pattern of troll, whine, make a claim, retreat when asked to back it up.  Troll, whine, make a claim, retreat when asked to back it up.    

How about we try it this way.  Since I'm sure people like gobirds feel I'm a total lib, see if they can guess where I am on the following issues:

1.  Black Lives Matter or All Lives Matter?

2.  The next stimulus bill:  For or against more money being distributed?

3.  Mask mandates - Federal mandate or leave it to the governors?

4.  MSNBC - I like it or don't like it?

5.  Going back to school:  Not until it's totally safe or leave it up to the parents/local school admins?

 

 

His comment wasn't personal towards you or any specific person.  I know I pretty much feel the same as he does and what Joe commented on just a bit earlier.  It's just pointless to keep having the same discussion over and over.  It's not a thing about you specifically, just it's been done here over and over.  There are some other FFA threads I enjoy participating in and the PSF isn't really conducive to expressing non left ideas these days.  Bowing out is probably the right move for any of us in that boat.

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4 minutes ago, Shula-holic said:

His comment wasn't personal towards you or any specific person.  I know I pretty much feel the same as he does and what Joe commented on just a bit earlier.  It's just pointless to keep having the same discussion over and over.  It's not a thing about you specifically, just it's been done here over and over.  There are some other FFA threads I enjoy participating in and the PSF isn't really conducive to expressing non left ideas these days.  Bowing out is probably the right move for any of us in that boat.

No comment but just to say you guys are doing a good job of not getting baited into something. At some point, the most mature thing is to realize it's been done enough.

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1 hour ago, Captain Cranks said:

Obviously I'm talking about the pattern of behavior, not the depth of the relationship or what is owed to the other.  If this incident was in isolation, sure, it's respectable.  However, this is just another iteration of a larger pattern of troll, whine, make a claim, retreat when asked to back it up.  Troll, whine, make a claim, retreat when asked to back it up.    

How about we try it this way.  Since I'm sure people like gobirds feel I'm a total lib, see if they can guess where I am on the following issues:

1.  Black Lives Matter or All Lives Matter?

2.  The next stimulus bill:  For or against more money being distributed?

3.  Mask mandates - Federal mandate or leave it to the governors?

4.  MSNBC - I like it or don't like it?

5.  Going back to school:  Not until it's totally safe or leave it up to the parents/local school admins?

 

 

Or the guys that ask others to back things up are the same ones that do a lot of trolling, whining, and failing to back up their claims.  These discussions get one-sided very quickly and the regulars go on the attack and as soon as someone responds the report button gets hammered and the suspension comes down.  It's honestly pointless to waste time backing up your claims when you know who the guys are that aren't open-minded and are here for an argument only and damn sure when you know the follow-up to posting your claim is going to be questioning your source as if they are the damn police of everything.  It's tiresome in every thread

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1 hour ago, Captain Cranks said:

I see this all the time on FB.  In my opinion, many 'conservatives' prefer to live in a bubble where everyone agrees with them.  They post their memes, they post their anti-lib comments, they praise everything Trump does and turn a blind eye to his errors, and then sit back and enjoy the likes and agreeable comments.  I've even had a family member go off on some anti-lib diatribe about his governor before requesting, "if you disagree with this, please keep it to yourself." 

 

I get that a lot of people like to live in a bubble...I don't necessarily believe that it's one side more than the other.  That's why I like this place.  It's a place where I can offer a "compromise" approach to see how it'd shake out.  Yeah, I got blasted here for my negative comments towards Obama.  I got blasted for my negative comments towards GWB and Kerry during that fiasco.  I got blasted by many here towards my feelings about going into Iraq.  It is what it is.  That part is basically two sides of the same coin.  Those groups are more similar than they'd ever want to admit.  That said, the part that IS different is how the conversations go and eventually end.  You pick any topic and I can show you how different they are in my anecdotal experience.

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40 minutes ago, The Commish said:

I get that a lot of people like to live in a bubble...I don't necessarily believe that it's one side more than the other.  That's why I like this place.  It's a place where I can offer a "compromise" approach to see how it'd shake out.  Yeah, I got blasted here for my negative comments towards Obama.  I got blasted for my negative comments towards GWB and Kerry during that fiasco.  I got blasted by many here towards my feelings about going into Iraq.  It is what it is.  That part is basically two sides of the same coin.  Those groups are more similar than they'd ever want to admit.  That said, the part that IS different is how the conversations go and eventually end.  You pick any topic and I can show you how different they are in my anecdotal experience.

Give an example of your experience for how conversations go and end during a time you made negative comments towards Obama.  Then do the same for negative comments towards Trump.  

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3 minutes ago, Captain Cranks said:

Give an example of your experience for how conversations go and end during a time you made negative comments towards Obama.  Then do the same for negative comments towards Trump.  

At the time, I considered Obama's approval to bomb US citizens in a foreign country to be one of the most disgusting things a President of this country could ever approve of and that I expected the Obama administration to answer for it.  I went round and round with people here on due process and "rule of law" sort of theories and how they might be interpreted differently under this circumstance.  In the end, I realized it was not as cut/dry as i thought, but I also didn't see any argument presented that would sway me away from my opinion on this action.  Ultimately, none of those philosophies passed the sniff test with me and we agreed to disagree.  I just have a stricter view than those who disagree.  It wasn't personal nor did people call me names.

A relatively similar "rule of law" (in this case "rule of engagement") sort of thing that's happened under Trump would be the killing of Iranian leadership in Soleimoni.  I flat out said that Solemoni was a disgusting human being and the world is absolutely a better place without him, but in my view, none of that justifies the methodology used to take him down and that I expected this administration to answer for it.  I was then labeled an "apologist for terrorists" and "the end justifies the means, get over it" as the primary arguments against my position.  That's about as far as it went and as "deep" as they chose to get.  

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1 hour ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Or the guys that ask others to back things up are the same ones that do a lot of trolling, whining, and failing to back up their claims.  These discussions get one-sided very quickly and the regulars go on the attack and as soon as someone responds the report button gets hammered and the suspension comes down.  It's honestly pointless to waste time backing up your claims when you know who the guys are that aren't open-minded and are here for an argument only and damn sure when you know the follow-up to posting your claim is going to be questioning your source as if they are the damn police of everything.  It's tiresome in every thread

While I understand your point and won’t argue it, I hope it’s not in context to me as I asked the question initially and @GoBirds response started this part of the conversation.  I was honestly asking what him and @BladeRunner  (or anyone else) considered independent or centered. I wasn’t asking to pick a fight or play gotcha, was truly asking to understand.  

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32 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

While I understand your point and won’t argue it, I hope it’s not in context to me as I asked the question initially and @GoBirds response started this part of the conversation.  I was honestly asking what him and @BladeRunner  (or anyone else) considered independent or centered. I wasn’t asking to pick a fight or play gotcha, was truly asking to understand.  

Independents, IMO, are mostly just Democrats who are currently mad at the party for some reason or another (but won't actually vote against the party at election time).  That's why I said we can declare 80% of the self-described "Independents" this way.  They almost always vote Democrat come election time despite their "I'm an independent" rhetoric.  They aren't really "Independent"and they ain't fooling anyone.  It's all a show.  The other 10% are probably republicans in the same state.  The last 10% are truly Independents - people who have no pattern voting for Democrat or Republican. 

Edited by BladeRunner
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12 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Independents, IMO, are mostly just Democrats who are currently mad at the party for some reason or another (but won't actually vote against the party at election time).  That's why I said we can declare 80% of the self-described "Independents" this way.  They almost always vote Democrat come election time despite their "I'm an independent" rhetoric.  They aren't really "Independent"and they ain't fooling anyone.  It's all a show.  The other 10% are probably republicans in the same state.  The last 10% are truly Independents - people who have no pattern voting for Democrat or Republican. 

Well, I guess there should be no pushback on this.  Just acceptance of another man's opinion despite a poll in this very thread that shows the majority of respondents DIDN'T vote for the Democrat in 2012.  Those people are either lying or have scurried over to the liberal side despite being "mad at the party for some reason or another."  

 

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24 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Independents, IMO, are mostly just Democrats who are currently mad at the party for some reason or another (but won't actually vote against the party at election time).  That's why I said we can declare 80% of the self-described "Independents" this way.  They almost always vote Democrat come election time despite their "I'm an independent" rhetoric.  They aren't really "Independent"and they ain't fooling anyone.  It's all a show.  The other 10% are probably republicans in the same state.  The last 10% are truly Independents - people who have no pattern voting for Democrat or Republican. 

I'm an independent.  Voted for Trump in the last election and voted Romney in the election before that.  Have been looking for a reason to vote Trump in 2020 but he's just too divisive for me.  Leaning towards Biden in 2020.  Gave the legal maximum $2,800 to Bernie's campaign in 2019.  Maybe I fit into that last 10% who are truly independents you talk about.  

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10 minutes ago, Captain Cranks said:

Well, I guess there should be no pushback on this.  Just acceptance of another man's opinion despite a poll in this very thread that shows the majority of respondents DIDN'T vote for the Democrat in 2012.  Those people are either lying or have scurried over to the liberal side despite being "mad at the party for some reason or another."  

 

I'm not sure why you're deliberately ignoring the political party/views breakdown of your poll and only focusing on who voted for who in 2012.  It seems like those disprove your theory and prove me and others overwhelmingly right about the makeup of this forum.

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4 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

I'm not sure why you're deliberately ignoring the political party/views breakdown of your poll and only focusing on who voted for who in 2012.  It seems like those disprove your theory and prove me and others overwhelmingly right about the makeup of this forum.

You haven’t even been in these forums for a year, why would you have any idea what the makeup was 4-5 years ago and dispute it when people say otherwise?

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37 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Independents, IMO, are mostly just Democrats who are currently mad at the party for some reason or another (but won't actually vote against the party at election time).  That's why I said we can declare 80% of the self-described "Independents" this way.  They almost always vote Democrat come election time despite their "I'm an independent" rhetoric.  They aren't really "Independent"and they ain't fooling anyone.  It's all a show.  The other 10% are probably republicans in the same state.  The last 10% are truly Independents - people who have no pattern voting for Democrat or Republican. 

Interesting thoughts thanks for the reply.

While I generally agree with your analysis I’m not sure I agree with the percentages, 80 10 & 10.  What leads you to believe those percentages to be true?   

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23 minutes ago, Captain Cranks said:

Well, I guess there should be no pushback on this.  Just acceptance of another man's opinion despite a poll in this very thread that shows the majority of respondents DIDN'T vote for the Democrat in 2012.  Those people are either lying or have scurried over to the liberal side despite being "mad at the party for some reason or another."  

 

But please don't call it what it is...that's just trolling and "being liberal"  :rolleyes:

This will be the first Presidential election I have ever voted for a Dem or a Repub....ever.

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11 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

I'm not sure why you're deliberately ignoring the political party/views breakdown of your poll and only focusing on who voted for who in 2012.  It seems like those disprove your theory and prove me and others overwhelmingly right about the makeup of this forum.

It disproves YOUR theory.  MY theory has always been that the board slants more liberal, but it's far more anti-Trump.  It's also my theory that some of you are incapable of differentiating between anti-Trump and liberals. 

The results show that 52% consider themselves very or moderately liberal.  However, 80% are anti-Trump.  Rather than accept this, you want to dismiss the results by stating that independents and centered aren't actually independent and centered.  They're really just liberals who answered incorrectly.  It's a fraudulent accusation based on nothing other than results that don't fit your preconceived view of things.  I'm sorry, but I can't respect that as a valid point of view.  

 

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18 minutes ago, Captain Cranks said:

Well, I guess there should be no pushback on this.  Just acceptance of another man's opinion despite a poll in this very thread that shows the majority of respondents DIDN'T vote for the Democrat in 2012.  Those people are either lying or have scurried over to the liberal side despite being "mad at the party for some reason or another."  

 

This is actually a great example of why most don’t take threads like this you create seriously at all. Just because a poll of the regular far left forum posters wants to vote themselves moderate and you are referencing it as if it is fact with instant snark is hilarious. 
 

Different day same tired schtick and not worth the time and risking a ban this close to football season. As @tonydead just got a 2 month ban in another thread for what @Joe Bryant mentioned as “tool behavior “ yet these type posts by you fly is why you won’t see any non liberals in here waste the time and risk losing access to FFA/SP chasing the played out :fishing: in here. Just my honest opinion. 

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25 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

You haven’t even been in these forums for a year, why would you have any idea what the makeup was 4-5 years ago and dispute it when people say otherwise?

Huh?  Many people have said in here that it wasn't conservative at all back then.  It's not me, but based on today's climate there is simply no way a short "3-4" years ago (as @moleculo surmised) it was conservative.  It was an opinion and assumption, that's all.

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23 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Interesting thoughts thanks for the reply.

While I generally agree with your analysis I’m not sure I agree with the percentages, 80 10 & 10.  What leads you to believe those percentages to be true?   

Independents almost always lean Democrat.  I can't remember the last person who was an "independent" that voted Republican on a regular basis like Independents typically do with Democrats.  But that's just my gut feeling - I bet if there is digging done I would be mostly correct.

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5 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Independents almost always lean Democrat.  I can't remember the last person who was an "independent" that voted Republican on a regular basis like Independents typically do with Democrats.  But that's just my gut feeling - I bet if there is digging done I would be mostly correct.

What could you even base this on? How would you know who an independent voted for?

Edited by Snorkelson
Oh I see gut feeling, very scientific
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9 minutes ago, Captain Cranks said:

It disproves YOUR theory.  MY theory has always been that the board slants more liberal, but it's far more anti-Trump.  It's also my theory that some of you are incapable of differentiating between anti-Trump and liberals. 

The results show that 52% consider themselves very or moderately liberal.  However, 80% are anti-Trump.  Rather than accept this, you want to dismiss the results by stating that independents and centered aren't actually independent and centered.  They're really just liberals who answered incorrectly.  It's a fraudulent accusation based on nothing other than results that don't fit your preconceived view of things.  I'm sorry, but I can't respect that as a valid point of view.  

Negative.  Are you accounting for Independents?  I doubt it.

Maybe you should add some qualifiers on how those so-called "Independents" actually vote.  My guess is you have some conservatives who don't like Trump, but you have a vast majority who are liberal who envision themselves as "Independent" (but aren't).

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1 minute ago, Captain Cranks said:

I apologize to everyone for any mucking up of the thread I may have caused.  I normally have these two on ignore but have been on reveal mode for this thread.  I'll get back to the much preferred ignore mode.  

So this was a fishing thread all along.  You weren't actually interested in the results.

Well played.  You had me fooled that you were actually interested in those you disagree with.  I won't fall for that again.

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The takeaway, for me, on this poll is 111 vs. 4, anti- vs. pro- Trump.  I mean, that ratio just seems crazy to me considering the demographics here.  I do think a lot of folks who align themselves to the right just don't bother to come around here so the numbers are definitely skewed because of that.  My guess is if we could get the same 115 people to have voted in 2016 that a lot of them probably would have said they were neither.  I think I've said it before in the forums but I didn't know a lot about Trump before the Republican debates in 2016.  It still boggles my mind to this day how somebody watched those debates and thought, "hey, this guy should be our President".  I had no clue what he would do or how he would run things, it just seemed obvious to me he was not qualified for the position so voting for him was always a non-starter for me.  I'm old school and feel like the President should have some qualifications even if you don't agree with his politics.  I feel slightly justified after 3.5 years on holding that opinion.

But, I'll reiterate my earlier comment - I hate labels.  Just another reason why I complain about the two party system. 

Edited by AAABatteries
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7 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Independents almost always lean Democrat.  I can't remember the last person who was an "independent" that voted Republican on a regular basis like Independents typically do with Democrats.  But that's just my gut feeling - I bet if there is digging done I would be mostly correct.

Thanks.  My guess, and it’s only that, is that it’s the perception from conservatives of people with left leaning social beliefs.  I’m in that last 10% you mention as I’ve voted all over the board the last 10yrs or so.  In “tie breaker” situations for the POUTS I would likely vote D due to the SCOTUS appointments but locally would vote R.  

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2 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

The takeaway, for me, on this poll is 111 vs. 4, anti- vs. pro- Trump.  I mean, that ratio just seems crazy to me considering the demographics here.

It's very telling in so many ways. I don't mean to be cryptic when I say that so I'll clarify. I think it speaks to the President's divisiveness in terms of choosing which policy to promote, his temperament in promoting it, and his competence.

I was admittedly anti-Trump during the first moment of the first primary, so there's also that. But I still think the hive mentality of the board is something to behold. It happens not just in Trump threads, but in others.

And before I get suspended, I'll leave the forum because we have drafts going on that I want to be a part of. 

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There’s nothing really shocking or unique in this poll versus the country at large. FBG is just a demographically uniform place so the shifts are as expected. 
White folks with a college degree have abandoned Trump in droves. That’sPrime FBG. This voter was receptive to Romney style Rs. 

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6 minutes ago, Trey said:

There’s nothing really shocking or unique in this poll versus the country at large. FBG is just a demographically uniform place so the shifts are as expected. 
White folks with a college degree have abandoned Trump in droves. That’sPrime FBG. This voter was receptive to Romney style Rs. 

Sure i think Romney is a bit of a boob, but id happily vote for him over either of the options this time through.... I'd voted for Kasich too..... you know....ALL the guys us libs routinely vote for 

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10 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Sure i think Romney is a bit of a boob, but id happily vote for him over either of the options this time through.... I'd voted for Kasich too..... you know....ALL the guys us libs routinely vote for 

Yup.  As mentioned earlier in this thread, I wanted Kasich.  I was petitioning hard for Ron Paul in 2012.  I'm typically drawn to decent human beings, regardless of political party.  

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31 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Huh?  Many people have said in here that it wasn't conservative at all back then.  It's not me, but based on today's climate there is simply no way a short "3-4" years ago (as @moleculo surmised) it was conservative.  It was an opinion and assumption, that's all.

I believe the shift roughly aligned with Obama's 2nd term, during the 2015 primaries.  Of course, it's a gradual shift - it's not like everyone changed their outlook on the same day.

Also, back in the day the board was not strongly conservative.  It was probably central but swung conservative on a few key issues, not so much on others.  I think in aggregate, it leaned conservative though.  IIRC, most folks seemed to fall into the "fiscally conservative, socially liberal" bucket.  I'd bet most still do, but I haven't seen anything resembling "fiscally conservative" from the Republican party in years so IMO that's the shift.

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26 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Thanks.  My guess, and it’s only that, is that it’s the perception from conservatives of people with left leaning social beliefs.  I’m in that last 10% you mention as I’ve voted all over the board the last 10yrs or so.  In “tie breaker” situations for the POUTS I would likely vote D due to the SCOTUS appointments but locally would vote R.  

Lol.  I am in that 10% as well, and didn't a couple others up thread say similar.  I do think he is overestimating the % that is liberal only but claiming to be independent. 

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5 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Lol.  I am in that 10% as well, and didn't a couple others up thread say similar.  I do think he is overestimating the % that is liberal only but claiming to be independent. 

Just a cursory search: https://theconversation.com/dont-be-fooled-most-independents-are-partisans-too-128670

"However, three-quarters of these “independents” admit, when asked, that they lean toward favoring the Democratic or Republican Party. Judging by how they vote or what they think of national political leaders, the truth is that these “leaners” really are partisans rather than independents. Apparently, many people who like to think of themselves as independent-minded and free of party influence aren’t."

I wasn't far off and I accept your collective apologies.  ;)

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5 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Just a cursory search: https://theconversation.com/dont-be-fooled-most-independents-are-partisans-too-128670

"However, three-quarters of these “independents” admit, when asked, that they lean toward favoring the Democratic or Republican Party. Judging by how they vote or what they think of national political leaders, the truth is that these “leaners” really are partisans rather than independents. Apparently, many people who like to think of themselves as independent-minded and free of party influence aren’t."

I wasn't far off and I accept your collective apologies.  ;)

I said I agree with your theory in general. So you’re welcome. I disagreed with your split, and from what you posted I don’t see it saying 80% D. Granted the link might, but it’s blocking me for some reason.  
 

I think it’s pretty straightforward and obvious that most independence are people that are frustrated with either/both parties.  That’s probably not a radical line of thinking.  

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40 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

The takeaway, for me, on this poll is 111 vs. 4, anti- vs. pro- Trump.  I mean, that ratio just seems crazy to me considering the demographics here. 

Seriously?

I would have been shocked if that wasn't the result for this forum. 

Nationwide, he's got a 40% approval rating. 

Here, it's 3.5%

When the 4% of people here talk about this board being an echo chamber and far from representative of the whole, that's what they're talking about. They're not wrong. 

 

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14 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Just a cursory search: https://theconversation.com/dont-be-fooled-most-independents-are-partisans-too-128670

"However, three-quarters of these “independents” admit, when asked, that they lean toward favoring the Democratic or Republican Party. Judging by how they vote or what they think of national political leaders, the truth is that these “leaners” really are partisans rather than independents. Apparently, many people who like to think of themselves as independent-minded and free of party influence aren’t."

I wasn't far off and I accept your collective apologies.  ;)

Like I said, I thought you overestimate with your 80% claim.   So 3/4 say they lean one way or the other, but you claim that 80% are really Dems that claim to be independent.  :shrug:

 

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I think the polls would have got better results if they were not anonymous. I don't have any evidence there is any trickery, but the numbers seem a little off. I don't doubt the overall trends, just the absolute numbers for some of the things (2 very conservative, only 5 pro-Trump). 

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14 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Seriously?

I would have been shocked if that wasn't the result for this forum. 

Nationwide, he's got a 40% approval rating. 

Here, it's 3.5%

When the 4% of people here talk about this board being an echo chamber and far from representative of the whole, that's what they're talking about. They're not wrong. 

 

But an echo chamber consists of voices, opinions and perspectives from like-minded individuals. As it's been pointed out here, the 96% that are anti-trump come from all backgrounds of the political spectrum. Obviously dems, liberals and progressives are a shoe-in to be against Trump. But a significant group of traditional conservative, independent and/or libertarian posters and now firmly anti-trump.  That's not an echo chamber IMO.

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1 hour ago, urbanhack said:

But an echo chamber consists of voices, opinions and perspectives from like-minded individuals. As it's been pointed out here, the 96% that are anti-trump come from all backgrounds of the political spectrum. Obviously dems, liberals and progressives are a shoe-in to be against Trump. But a significant group of traditional conservative, independent and/or libertarian posters and now firmly anti-trump.  That's not an echo chamber IMO.

I get you're trying to sugar-coat it to make it look like it's not an echo-chamber, but that's simply not the case.

Lots of disillusionment between the way everyone wants it and the way it actually is.  Outside of this site, everyone knows the score on how this forum leans.  Even the owner of the site has friends that see it the same way and won't even post here.  Heck, even the owner sees it the same way.

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1 hour ago, AAABatteries said:

The takeaway, for me, on this poll is 111 vs. 4, anti- vs. pro- Trump.  I mean, that ratio just seems crazy to me considering the demographics here.  I do think a lot of folks who align themselves to the right just don't bother to come around here so the numbers are definitely skewed because of that.  My guess is if we could get the same 115 people to have voted in 2016 that a lot of them probably would have said they were neither.  I think I've said it before in the forums but I didn't know a lot about Trump before the Republican debates in 2016.  It still boggles my mind to this day how somebody watched those debates and thought, "hey, this guy should be our President".  I had no clue what he would do or how he would run things, it just seemed obvious to me he was not qualified for the position so voting for him was always a non-starter for me.  I'm old school and feel like the President should have some qualifications even if you don't agree with his politics.  I feel slightly justified after 3.5 years on holding that opinion.

But, I'll reiterate my earlier comment - I hate labels.  Just another reason why I complain about the two party system. 

I'm kinda curious about the "Neither pro or anti Trump" contingent. That's almost 20%. I'd imagine that if someone hasn't seen enough of what he's about by now to decide they won't be voting against him, well they will just as likely vote for him. This might also the group of folks who claim there's no difference between Biden and Trump, which to me is usually just a shade for voting for Trump.

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21 minutes ago, huthut said:

I think the polls would have got better results if they were not anonymous. I don't have any evidence there is any trickery, but the numbers seem a little off. I don't doubt the overall trends, just the absolute numbers for some of the things (2 very conservative, only 5 pro-Trump). 

I am curious who those 2 votes were.   Again, I probably have a different definition, but mine is more on the side of basically agreeing across the board on conservative policies, and I think there a a few more than just 2 out of 150+.  

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1 hour ago, Snorkelson said:

What could you even base this on? How would you know who an independent voted for?

Voting breakdown in 2016

" The roughly one-third (34%) of the electorate who identified as independent or with another party divided their votes about evenly (43% Trump, 42% Clinton)."

Independent voters in 2012

https://www.businessinsider.com/obama-romney-independent-vote-polls-moderates-election-2012-11

 Romney won among Independents by 5 points, 50-45, 

 

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43 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I'm kinda curious about the "Neither pro or anti Trump" contingent. That's almost 20%. I'd imagine that if someone hasn't seen enough of what he's about by now to decide they won't be voting against him, well they will just as likely vote for him. This might also the group of folks who claim there's no difference between Biden and Trump, which to me is usually just a shade for voting for Trump.

Part of this is the inherent limitation of the poll.  You took it to mean are you voting for him or not, the word vote was not in the question.  I think a lot of subtleties are getting missed (evident by the discussion)

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