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How do you identify politically


How would you describe your political views?  

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46 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

3.77% of the people who voted here said they were pro Trump. We're back up to rounding up to 4%. 

That feels right to me based on years of reading the forum.

But you seem to think that number is wrong for some reason. What's your opinion on what the real number is?

If you counted the total posts at least 5 times that amount. I never said they were a majority, just that 4% is obviously a wrong number.

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2 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

That's my fear too. 

See maybe I’m naive (I usually am) but I think the opposite, because the entire nation currently has the same, very singular goal: getting COVID out of our lives. We’re lacking a national sense of direction about how to accomplish this  (which is the main reason, IMO, President Trump will he defeated). Once we have been given that, I believe that most of the country will be pretty united until the crisis passes. 

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4 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

I don’t want to talk about Trump now - why in gods name would I want to talk about him if he loses?  Hopefully we can go back to mostly ignoring what the President does on a daily basis.

Unfortunately this won’t happen until the COVID and economic crisis has passed. So it could be a while. 

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2 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

That the discussion an echo chamber. If Trump loses and the Trump supporters are run, that's a non factor as it's a handful of people. 

I am going to say this out loud.  I'm of the opinion that this board would have many, many more conservative voices return if the majority of the Trump supporters were run off.   

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3 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

What do you think is the % of posters here that are Pro Trump?

I think you first have to define "Pro Trump". Could mean different things to different people. In fact, that's been a complaint of some here for years. They are labeled as "Pro Trump" when they don't feel they are. Take @jon_mx, for example. I think a lot of people here would label him as "Pro Trump", but in this thread he said:

 

1 hour ago, jon_mx said:

Just FYI, i don't support Trump and am highly critical of him.

 

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3 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

What do you think is the % of posters here that are Pro Trump?

You didn’t ask me but I would say it’s about 15% at this point, maybe less. Though, in terms of posts (not posters) it’s a much higher percentage: perhaps 35-40% 

However, there are a much larger percentage of conservatives here- might be 50% or more. It should really be a strong majority actually, given the general makeup of the fantasy football people who engage in discussion here: white, upper middle class, college educated men typically 40 or over. Which is why I don’t think you have to worry that much about this forum being too one sided once Trump is defeated. 

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1 minute ago, dgreen said:

I think you first have to define "Pro Trump". Could mean different things to different people. In fact, that's been a complaint of some here for years. They are labeled as "Pro Trump" when they don't feel they are. Take @jon_mx, for example. I think a lot of people here would label him as "Pro Trump", but in this thread he said:

 

 

And Im not sure Jon would be labeled pro-Trump by many here.  I think he is conservative...but I would not label him pro-Trump.

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5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

See maybe I’m naive (I usually am) but I think the opposite, because the entire nation currently has the same, very singular goal: getting COVID out of our lives. We’re lacking a national sense of direction about how to accomplish this  (which is the main reason, IMO, President Trump will he defeated). Once we have been given that, I believe that most of the country will be pretty united until the crisis passes. 

I think this view ignores the divide that was building before Trump and, while it's been exacerbated by Trump, isn't going away when he leaves.  We are not the same country we were in 2001.  Crises don't have the same ability to bring us together.      

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Just now, Bottomfeeder Sports said:

I am going to say this out loud.  I'm of the opinion that this board would have many, many more conservative voices return if the majority of the Trump supporters were run off.   

I expect you'll get agreement there which proves my point. As someone who knows a lot of conservatives, I totally disagree with you. It's not the handful of Pro Trump voices that are keeping other conservatives from posting here. Far from it. This is not complicated.

It's also super tiring and discouraging. I'll bow out of this one for a while. 

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Just now, timschochet said:

You didn’t ask me but I would say it’s about 15% at this point, maybe less. Though, in terms of posts (not posters) it’s a much higher percentage: perhaps 35-40% 

However, there are a much larger percentage of conservatives here- might be 50% or more. It should really be a strong majority actually, given the general makeup of the fantasy football people who engage in discussion here: white, upper middle class, college educated men typically 40 or over. Which is why I don’t think you have to worry that much about this forum being too one sided once Trump is defeated. 

I think the demographics have been shfting though even with this.  Not a ton...but I think this board also skews a little away from the typical demographic there.  That used to be the case with people as they got older became more conservative...seems many here its gone the other way.

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17 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

I don’t want to talk about Trump now - why in gods name would I want to talk about him if he loses?  Hopefully we can go back to mostly ignoring what the President does on a daily basis.

I don't see this happening again. Everything any president does will be under a microscope now. Plus it will all about how much material can be gathered up on the President to defeat them or their party in the next election. 

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1 minute ago, Joe Bryant said:

I expect you'll get agreement there which proves my point. As someone who knows a lot of conservatives, I totally disagree with you. It's not the handful of Pro Trump voices that are keeping other conservatives from posting here. Far from it. This is not complicated.

It's also super tiring and discouraging. I'll bow out of this one for a while. 

Can I ask you to do your best impression of a 'conservative voice' that you feel is lacking from these boards?

For example, I'll say, "I think it's disgusting that Trump had people teargassed so that he could do a photo op in front of a church."  How do you think those conservative voices would respond?

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1 minute ago, timschochet said:

You didn’t ask me but I would say it’s about 15% at this point, maybe less. Though, in terms of posts (not posters) it’s a much higher percentage: perhaps 35-40% 

However, there are a much larger percentage of conservatives here- might be 50% or more. It should really be a strong majority actually, given the general makeup of the fantasy football people who engage in discussion here: white, upper middle class, college educated men typically 40 or over. Which is why I don’t think you have to worry that much about this forum being too one sided once Trump is defeated. 

There is no way pro-Trump posts are anywhere near 35%.  We have threads with hundreds of thousands of posts which are nothing but constant Trump bashing.  What you considered conservative is left-center.  15% of pro-Trump posts might be in the ballpark. 

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Just now, msudaisy26 said:

I don't see this happening again. Everything any president does will be under a microscope now. Plus it will all about how much material can be gathered up on the President to defeat them or their party in the next election. 

Its why Id love a change in POTUS term...people talk about it with SCOTUS lately.

But would it be better to have POTUS limited to one 5 or 6 year term.  That way its about trying to do the job rather than 2 years in already running for re-election or worrying about having to play the game to get re-elected?

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6 minutes ago, dgreen said:

I think you first have to define "Pro Trump". Could mean different things to different people. In fact, that's been a complaint of some here for years. They are labeled as "Pro Trump" when they don't feel they are. Take @jon_mx, for example. I think a lot of people here would label him as "Pro Trump", but in this thread he said:

 

 

If I did labels, this is the last thing I'd label him.

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Echo Chamber:

an environment in which the same opinions are repeatedly voiced and promoted, so that people are not exposed to opposing views:

an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered.

 

I get that Joe is frustrated with the boards in general and the PSF in particular, but I guess I still don't agree with the over use of the term.  Just because it's a majority of one lean doesn't mean it's gotten to the point where we only encounter or consider one specific viewpoint.   Again, I don't think it's the opposition of views that are shot down, it's the tone of posts that is the issue.  

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1 minute ago, jon_mx said:

There is no way pro-Trump posts are anywhere near 35%.  We have threads with hundreds of thousands of posts which are nothing but constant Trump bashing.  What you considered conservative is left-center.  15% of pro-Trump posts might be in the ballpark. 

Well we may have a difference of opinion about how one defines a “pro-Trump” post. Take yourself for example: I know you’re not a fan of Trump. Yet you’re a conservative and when you perceive, in your opinion, Trump being attacked for something he does that is conservative, you’re apt to defend him. You’re also quite eager to always point out the hypocrisy (again in your opinion) of those who criticize him, especially when they excuse Democratic politicians for similar acts. I regard these sorts of posts from you as “pro-Trump.” 

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2 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Echo Chamber:

an environment in which the same opinions are repeatedly voiced and promoted, so that people are not exposed to opposing views:

an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered.

 

I get that Joe is frustrated with the boards in general and the PSF in particular, but I guess I still don't agree with the over use of the term.  Just because it's a majority of one lean doesn't mean it's gotten to the point where we only encounter or consider one specific viewpoint.   Again, I don't think it's the opposition of views that are shot down, it's the tone of posts that is the issue.  

Opposition views are shot down and have you read the tone of posts by many Anti-Trump posters?

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Just now, Leroy Hoard said:

A much harder question since some may be the same people. 

Also let’s face it: right now the REALLY pro Trump types are quiet because there’s not much to cheer about. He’s losing badly; it’s not just one poll, it’s every poll in every contested state. 

His fans here haven’t gone away. If Trump finds a way to recover in the next few months they will return louder than ever before. 

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7 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Echo Chamber:

an environment in which the same opinions are repeatedly voiced and promoted, so that people are not exposed to opposing views:

an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered.

 

I get that Joe is frustrated with the boards in general and the PSF in particular, but I guess I still don't agree with the over use of the term.  Just because it's a majority of one lean doesn't mean it's gotten to the point where we only encounter or consider one specific viewpoint.   Again, I don't think it's the opposition of views that are shot down, it's the tone of posts that is the issue.  

Just a few months back, every new poster who came in this forum with a conservative or pro-Trump slant was labeled an alias or a troll.  The mods kind of put an end to that tactic, but now this forum is using dismissive tactics more and more.  There are probably only a couple posters who will engage me about real points I raise.  Most try to nitpick some small irrelevant aspect of my post to attack or just completely mischaracterize my point and ignore the meat.  There is an active effort to squash opposing viewpoints.  

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1 minute ago, jon_mx said:

Just a few months back, every new poster who came in this forum with a conservative or pro-Trump slant was labeled an alias or a troll.  The mods kind of put an end to that tactic, but now this forum is using dismissive tactics more and more.  There are probably only a couple posters who will engage me about real points I raise.  Most try to nitpick some small irrelevant aspect of my post to attack or just completely mischaracterize my point and ignore the meat.  There is an active effort to squash opposing viewpoints.  

I'm glad you post here and deal with the attacks that come with being in the minority position, and I try to not do that.

The poll results are a bit alarming. 6 people out of 173 (as of this post) identify as pro-Trump. That should be a lot closer to 50 people if the board were somewhat representative.

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15 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Well we may have a difference of opinion about how one defines a “pro-Trump” post. Take yourself for example: I know you’re not a fan of Trump. Yet you’re a conservative and when you perceive, in your opinion, Trump being attacked for something he does that is conservative, you’re apt to defend him. You’re also quite eager to always point out the hypocrisy (again in your opinion) of those who criticize him, especially when they excuse Democratic politicians for similar acts. I regard these sorts of posts from you as “pro-Trump.” 

Oh I do hate the cancel culture.  The cancel culture is everything you hated about the religious right, but amplified 10 times.  I do not have much respect for judgmental hypocrites.   

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5 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

There are probably only a couple posters who will engage me about real points I raise.  Most try to nitpick some small irrelevant aspect of my post to attack or just completely mischaracterize my point and ignore the meat.  There is an active effort to squash opposing viewpoints.  

I used to engage with you on a regular basis. I don't do so anymore.  It's not because I'm trying to squash viewpoints.

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35 minutes ago, Bottomfeeder Sports said:

I am going to say this out loud.  I'm of the opinion that this board would have many, many more conservative voices return if the majority of the Trump supporters were run off.   

Well there's only 4 to run off, so shouldn't be too hard.

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23 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Its why Id love a change in POTUS term...people talk about it with SCOTUS lately.

But would it be better to have POTUS limited to one 5 or 6 year term.  That way its about trying to do the job rather than 2 years in already running for re-election or worrying about having to play the game to get re-elected?

I think that might help, but not sure it would help a lot. Take this current situation for example Democrats would still be keeping track of everything Trump does wrong in an effort to discredit the next Republican that would run after Trump's term ended. 

It would also work the same way if a Democrat was in the White House. 

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1 hour ago, Rich Conway said:

I'm not answering that without a proactive confirmation from a mod that it won't get me suspended.

"everything" will get you in trouble here and send you down the predictable rabbit hole.  You will most likely end up in the "just because I don't denounce it to you doesn't mean I approve" pit when it's all said and done.

This is a slightly different variation of "GOPers weren't allowed in the room" shtick in the Russia fiasco.

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17 minutes ago, John Blutarsky said:

Opposition views are shot down and have you read the tone of posts by many Anti-Trump posters?

I read the tone of the PSF in general.  I am not in here a ton, and encounter as much of the tone that the left are a step away from communists and are encouraging racism as I do anti-Trump posts.  

I am probably not a good case study because I am not on a ton, try to stay away from the specific trump threads as much as I can resist, and engage with people that many seem to have on ignore.  

I hope we are not saying that we cant shoot down each others arguments that we disagree with, right? 

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36 minutes ago, dgreen said:

Those who oppose Biden won't ignore anything he does. And others will argue with them non stop.

Trump has changed this landscape forever now after his onslaught of tweets, watching of cable news and trying to run the presidency like a pr/advertising agency. 

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5 minutes ago, Grace Under Pressure said:

I'm glad you post here and deal with the attacks that come with being in the minority position, and I try to not do that.

The poll results are a bit alarming. 6 people out of 173 (as of this post) identify as pro-Trump. That should be a lot closer to 50 people if the board were somewhat representative.

Representative of what?  The FBG sample is not an accurate representation of the U.S population as a whole.  I don't think it's a stretch to assume, on average, we're more highly educated, more likely to have white collar jobs, and less likely to live in rural areas than the average U.S. voter.  Those demographics are definitely not Trump's bread and butter.  

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1 minute ago, jon_mx said:

Life is easier when you don't challenge your ideas.  

Just anecdotally, but for my money, fatguy is one of the most intellectually stimulating posters here.  

I would be surprised if he does not constantly challenge his own views to ensure that they evolve appropriately.

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1 minute ago, Captain Cranks said:

Representative of what?  The FBG sample is not an accurate representation of the U.S population as a whole.  I don't think it's a stretch to assume, on average, we're more highly educated, more likely to have white collar jobs, and less likely to live in rural areas than the average U.S. voter.  Those demographics are definitely not Trump's bread and butter.  

FBG-PSF is not representative of football fans, which it should be.  You would expect a football website to be mostly male (women are grossly undereprented too, but for other reasons), but football fans tend to be fairly evenly split along political lines.  This site was 8 years ago.  But now it is slanted left and extremely anti-Trump.  It is not explained by education levels.  

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41 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Well we may have a difference of opinion about how one defines a “pro-Trump” post. Take yourself for example: I know you’re not a fan of Trump. Yet you’re a conservative and when you perceive, in your opinion, Trump being attacked for something he does that is conservative, you’re apt to defend him. You’re also quite eager to always point out the hypocrisy (again in your opinion) of those who criticize him, especially when they excuse Democratic politicians for similar acts. I regard these sorts of posts from you as “pro-Trump.” 

Tim nails why people think there are so many Pro-Trump posters but he's wrong with his label of them.  Anyone here who isn't against Trump is automatically labelled Pro Trump and that's often incorrect.  Tim even admits to doing it here.   We've dealt with Tim labeling posters for years and as soon as that starts it usually kills good discussion.  Just discuss the stupid topic and stop trying to assign a label to a poster especially when you know the mob is going to attack. 

 

 

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55 minutes ago, dgreen said:

Those who oppose Biden won't ignore anything he does. And others will argue with them non stop.

Yeah, I don't agree - I see the level or ignoring to be similar to Obama, W, etc.  I think people forget that there wasn't daily tweets or weird stuff to discuss. 

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5 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

FBG-PSF is not representative of football fans, which it should be.  You would expect a football website to be mostly male (women are grossly undereprented too, but for other reasons), but football fans tend to be fairly evenly split along political lines.  This site was 8 years ago.  But now it is slanted left and extremely anti-Trump.  It is not explained by education levels.  

I don't believe the average football fan = FBG forum user.  I would guess the FBG forum user is a more analytically inclined subset of the average football fan.  It's those same analytical tendencies that lead to some of the behaviors you see in the political debates.  

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3 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Tim nails why people think there are so many Pro-Trump posters but he's wrong with his label of them.  Anyone here who isn't against Trump is automatically labelled Pro Trump and that's often incorrect.  Tim even admits to doing it here.   We've dealt with Tim labeling posters for years and as soon as that starts it usually kills good discussion.  Just discuss the stupid topic and stop trying to assign a label to a poster especially when you know the mob is going to attack. 

 

 

I acknowledge there is some of this going on.  Would you acknowledge that it's unfair to characterize those of us who are anti-Trump as liberals?

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2 minutes ago, Captain Cranks said:

I don't believe the average football fan = FBG forum user.  I would guess the FBG forum user is a more analytically inclined subset of the average football fan.  It's those same analytical tendencies that lead to some of the behaviors you see in the political debates.  

But that does not make it inherently leftist.   The culture in these forums, particularly in the political forum, is what shaped the current political landscape in here.

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3 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Yeah, I don't agree - I see the level or ignoring to be similar to Obama, W, etc.  I think people forget that there wasn't daily tweets or weird stuff to discuss. 

True, few want to acknowledge that Bush and Obama didn't send out Twitter bombs on a daily basis and then act the victim when others respond to those constant tweets.

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1 minute ago, Captain Cranks said:

I acknowledge there is some of this going on.  Would you acknowledge that it's unfair to characterize those of us who are anti-Trump as liberals?

Sure I don't believe I have done that though I did admit in one of these threads that there are plenty of posters who claim to be not be liberal but take the liberal side of every political discussion that occurs.  Also, it's been damn near impossible to even have a policy discussion on this board for years because the usual suspects turn everything into Trump and sides.  I wonder if that will change next January

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2 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Sure I don't believe I have done that though I did admit in one of these threads that there are plenty of posters who claim to be not be liberal but take the liberal side of every political discussion that occurs.  Also, it's been damn near impossible to even have a policy discussion on this board for years because the usual suspects turn everything into Trump and sides.  I wonder if that will change next January

It won't.

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