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What’s the possible conservative explanation for the recent dismantling of the USPS?!?!? (1 Viewer)

Are we sure the Russians aren't involved?  Can we just make something up like we did last time and call it a conspiracy?

 
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At this time? None. Trump is not conservative

At a different time the argument would be done that a revocation of the USPS's various benefits:

It can borrow up to $15 billion from the U.S. Treasury at low interest rates.

It is exempt from state and local sales, income, and property taxes, and from parking tickets, vehicle fees, and other charges.

It pays federal corporate income taxes on its earnings from competitive products, but those taxes are circulated back to the USPS.2

It is not bound by local zoning laws, is immune from a range of civil actions, and has the power of eminent domain.

It has government regulatory power, which it can use to impede competitors

On the other hand, its quality is restricted by regulation in the form of Congress tying the hands of the USPS in many ways that prevent it from operating like a private enterprise. Congress restricts the USPS's pricing flexibility, requires it to provide expansive employee benefits, imposes collective bargaining, and prevents it from cutting costs in various ways, such as by reducing delivery frequency and closing low-volume post offices.

Meanwhile with the falling volume of mail jobs have been lost and worker compensation costs have risen thanks to a highly unionized labor force--all creating higher expenses than revenues

Privatization would create a freer market, save taxpayer money in the face of a 26 trillion dollar debt that will further balloon regardless of the election outcome in the coming years and improve quality of services due to the opening of competition without the government picking favorites among companies

 
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not a chance in hell.
What a well reasoned response

Spin it any way you want but at the moment the USPS is a failing company with billions of dollars in government subsidies still not enough to make up for its (unfunded) liabilities

I have already said that I don't believe that it should be privatized now with the election coming up and the pandemic making mail in voting responsible for an even bigger chunk of ballots than usual

 
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What a well reasoned response

Spin it any way you want but at the moment the USPS is a failing company with billions of dollars in subsidies still not enough to make up for its liabilities

I have already said that I don't believe that it should be privatized now with the election coming up and the pandemic making mail in voting responsible for an even bigger chunk of ballots than usual
The USPS isnt meant to run a profit. Or even break even. Its to deliver communications for the US citizen.  Think US Military.

 
The USPS isnt meant to run a profit. Or even break even. Its to deliver communications for the US citizen.  Think US Military.
I understand that but when costs far (and increasingly) exceed profits guess who covers the costs? And it isn't like the military because the constitution just grants the federal government the power to establish post offices--rather than an obligation to like with defense

If not full on privatization I think there are at the very least common sense reforms that can be taken to improve the state and sustainability of The USPS (not that I expect them to happen) after the election:

Closing low volume post office locations (as a private business would do with a failing franchise--especially as volume continues to fall)

Ending cross subsidies of competitive products (packages) from monopoly products (like letters)--usually done through allocating institutional costs

There are a few others that can minimize labor costs and ending collective bargaining for a public workforce that is 80% unionized but with the power of unions they may be more controversial

That said: we seem to be in agreement that nothing should be done before an election that will likely push the USPS to its limits

 
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I understand that but when costs far (and increasingly) exceed profits guess who covers the costs? And it isn't like the military because the constitution just grants the federal government the power to establish post offices--rather than an obligation to like with defense

If not full on privatization I think there are at the very least common sense reforms that can be taken to improve the state and sustainability of The USPS (not that I expect them to happen) after the election:

Closing low volume post office locations (as a private business would do with a failing franchise--especially as volume continues to fall)

Ending cross subsidies of competitive products (packages) from monopoly products (like letters)--usually done through allocating institutional costs

There are a few others that can minimize labor costs and ending collective bargaining for a public workforce that is 80% unionized but with the power of unions they may be more controversial

That said: we seem to be in agreement that nothing should be done before an election that will likely push the USPS to its limits
There are NO PROFITS.  Its not designed to run a profit, its there to deliver mail. Like every day 300,000 veterans get their meds.  Like for people to be able to vote.

Quit saying profit.

 
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There are NO PROFITS.  Its not designed to run aprofit, its their to deliver mail. Like for the 300,000 veterans who get their meds every single day.  Like for people top be able to vote.
And I am saying that there are ways to perform those functions while cutting cots and improving efficiency--none of which should be taken until after this election

 
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In FACT it only had 7 billion in debt in 2007. And the REPUBLICANS intentionally tried to crush it and kill it with debt

And here we are.

 
BigSteelThrill said:
Start with the ####### Military if you want to do that. It cant even pass a single audit as to how it money is spent, ever. The USPS doesnt have that problem.
Yes. I agree military spending should also be cut. We have no need to outspend the rest of the world five times over in military expenditures. But that is a different conversation

 
Have you ever argued that the military should be cut/privatized because it doesn't run a profit? 
As said before these are two different subjects:

The military is a specifically listed obligation of the federal government in the Constitution. The post office is something the federal government has the power to run--not an obligation.

And I literally said in the post you quoted that military spending should be cut (and significantly cut it it were up to me) and reformed from an efficiency perspective to be smarter rather than bigger. It will never happen with the stake both parties have in funding from the military industrial complex but I have been fairly consistent in saying costs should be cut and efficiency improved in all expenditures of the federal government when possible (and in this case it is--for both the USPS and military)

We all know that answer.  :lol:
You sure like to pretend you do

 
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Blatant Fascism used against a voting democracy. But what about the money spent?

Points on an exam, or for hiring, historically oppressed people.  Who could ever vote for these guys?

Nobody has to pretend about those responses.

 
Trump said it and this is more proof of it... he could shoot someone on New Yorks Fifth Avenue and wont lose votes.

 
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Blatant Fascism used against a voting democracy. But what about the money spent?

Points on an exam, or for hiring, historically oppressed people.  Who could ever vote for these guys?

Nobody has to pretend about those responses.
1. I have literally said that nothing should be done before the election. If Trump proceeds with it, I hope he loses. I still won't vote to make Kamala Harris VP. Sorry. Had he picked Susan Rice or Demmings I could have held my nose and done it. Not now

2. I'd love to hear your explanation for why I am inferior on the basis of my race and deserve less opportunity as a result. Or for why the kids of penniless Hmong immigrants under the poverty line (65% of them in the state of Minnesota) in Minneapolis are more privileged than Sasha and Malia. 

You didn't answer the question. 
I believe I said military spending should be cut because we are currently spending a disproportionate amount? Note that my comments on the costs of postal were less about how they should deliver a profit but how costs should be cut and efficiency maximized when it is possible to be done in a way that doesn't prevent the objective of the institution from being accomplished. I believe this for the military as well

Trump said it and this is more proof of it... he could shoot someone on New Yorks Fifth Avenue and wont lose votes.
Hyperbole obviously but I have met enough Trump cultists to know the insane level of devotion they have for him. He would likely still get many votes write in sadly even after being dumped by the RNC and be arrested with some of his supporters thinking of him as a martyr.

I have yet to vote for Trump in my life unless you think Mitt Romney is Trump lol and I likely don't start now

You're starting to sound like a bot

 
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The USPS isn't very high on my list of government/quasi-government agencies to trim, but it's certainly one that could stand some rethinking.  Private firms do just fine in the market for parcels and overnight mail.  It's not obvious to me why the USPS needs to maintain a monopoly in the market for first class mail, especially considering that people mail a lot fewer letters now.  (Maybe there's a good reason for having a government-protected monopolist in that market -- I'm just not aware of what that argument would be.  Rural service?  That doesn't seem very convincing).

 
The USPS isn't very high on my list of government/quasi-government agencies to trim, but it's certainly one that could stand some rethinking.  Private firms do just fine in the market for parcels and overnight mail.  It's not obvious to me why the USPS needs to maintain a monopoly in the market for first class mail, especially considering that people mail a lot fewer letters now.  (Maybe there's a good reason for having a government-protected monopolist in that market -- I'm just not aware of what that argument would be.  Rural service?  That doesn't seem very convincing).
I agree with this, but this is not the time to deal with it. He is trying to steal the election in plain sight and if Congress can't be bothered to address it, somebody else should.

 
I agree with this, but this is not the time to deal with it. He is trying to steal the election in plain sight and if Congress can't be bothered to address it, somebody else should.
Sure.  I'm just responding to some posters in this thread who seem to think that the USPS occupies some sort of sanctified role in our society.  It's mostly a vestigial organ at this point.

 
The military is a specifically listed obligation of the federal government in the Constitution. 
Link? Because the only thing I see in the Constitution is a provision giving Congress the authority to do so, the same as the post office.

 
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If you want to "fix" the USPS, you can start with the union holding the over inflated pension over the head of the government.  There are approx 300,000 less people in employment of the post office in the last several years, but like 500-600K collecting a pension.  Seems like a perfect opportunity for a "deal maker".  Clean all that out and the financials begin to look much better overnight.

But to the OP, let's be real.....the only explanation to Trump picking this specific time after having 3.5 years is "coincidence".  That's the only thing that can be considered a reasonable response and even then it's pretty laughable.  

 
The USPS could disappear today and it would save me a trip to the mailbox with a stop at my recycle bin on the way back to the house.

I cannot remember the last time I thought...."Oh darn, it's Sunday. No mail today."

 
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This is a perfect example of the tribalism going on in this country. I thought conservatives cared about veterans and small businesses? If you care about those things, it should be pretty easy to see why you should care about the survival of the Postal Service. But, since Trump is hell bent on its destruction, you need to fall in line with it. What a mess our country is. Pretty sad. 

 
This is a perfect example of the tribalism going on in this country. I thought conservatives cared about veterans and small businesses? If you care about those things, it should be pretty easy to see why you should care about the survival of the Postal Service. But, since Trump is hell bent on its destruction, you need to fall in line with it. What a mess our country is. Pretty sad. 
To be clear, he's not hell bent on the destruction of the postal service. He is hell bent on stealing the election and the USPS is simply the means to that end. He doesn't gaf about the postal service. Outside of its usefulness in that regard, it's just work for him. We know he doesn't like to work.

 
To be clear, he's not hell bent on the destruction of the postal service. He is hell bent on stealing the election and the USPS is simply the means to that end. He doesn't gaf about the postal service. Outside of its usefulness in that regard, it's just work for him. We know he doesn't like to work.
No offense, but if you don’t think the Republicans have been trying to sabotage and/or privatize the PO for decades, you should do some more research. USPS has been hamstrung since 2006 thanks to the Bush administration and the ridiculous pre-funding of pensions and benefits that they were slapped with. 
 

I completely agree with the timing of this with the election coming up, no argument from me there. There are multiple motives here for the GOP. I mean, the new PMG is a big Trump donor with millions of dollars invested in corporations that are direct competitors of USPS. No, nothing to see there. 

 
No offense, but if you don’t think the Republicans have been trying to sabotage and/or privatize the PO for decades, you should do some more research. USPS has been hamstrung since 2006 thanks to the Bush administration and the ridiculous pre-funding of pensions and benefits that they were slapped with. 
 

I completely agree with the timing of this with the election coming up, no argument from me there. There are multiple motives here for the GOP. I mean, the new PMG is a big Trump donor with millions of dollars invested in corporations that are direct competitors of USPS. No, nothing to see there. 
I'm not saying Republicans don't want to privatize the PO. I'm saying Donald Trump doesn't gaf.

 
You seem like you don't like living here that much.  All I ever see from you is complaint after complaint.
It's like your tone deaf. Do you realize what thread and forum you're in? That's all it is is nothing but complaints after complaint. Now we have a guy that's advocating for the assassination of a duly elected president but that's not a problem.  The problem is the guy calling you out on it.

 
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At this time? None. Trump is not conservative

At a different time the argument would be done that a revocation of the USPS's various benefits:

It can borrow up to $15 billion from the U.S. Treasury at low interest rates.

It is exempt from state and local sales, income, and property taxes, and from parking tickets, vehicle fees, and other charges.

It pays federal corporate income taxes on its earnings from competitive products, but those taxes are circulated back to the USPS.2

It is not bound by local zoning laws, is immune from a range of civil actions, and has the power of eminent domain.

It has government regulatory power, which it can use to impede competitors

On the other hand, its quality is restricted by regulation in the form of Congress tying the hands of the USPS in many ways that prevent it from operating like a private enterprise. Congress restricts the USPS's pricing flexibility, requires it to provide expansive employee benefits, imposes collective bargaining, and prevents it from cutting costs in various ways, such as by reducing delivery frequency and closing low-volume post offices.

Meanwhile with the falling volume of mail jobs have been lost and worker compensation costs have risen thanks to a highly unionized labor force--all creating higher expenses than revenues

Privatization would create a freer market, save taxpayer money in the face of a 26 trillion dollar debt that will further balloon regardless of the election outcome in the coming years and improve quality of services due to the opening of competition without the government picking favorites among companies
Thanks for this explanation. Do conservatives who back Trump feel that he is doing this, now, for these reasons?

 
Russiagate didn't work, so now it's post office gate?  WTH?
You haven’t really provided valuable contributions to this topic. I’d love to hear what you think about the current move by the Trump admin to cut USPS budgets, remove mailboxes and fire people a few months before an election that would largely require mail in voting. 
 

 
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The USPS isn't very high on my list of government/quasi-government agencies to trim, but it's certainly one that could stand some rethinking.  Private firms do just fine in the market for parcels and overnight mail.  It's not obvious to me why the USPS needs to maintain a monopoly in the market for first class mail, especially considering that people mail a lot fewer letters now.  (Maybe there's a good reason for having a government-protected monopolist in that market -- I'm just not aware of what that argument would be.  Rural service?  That doesn't seem very convincing).
Stripping the USPS of its monopoly status would be fine.

Preserving its monopoly status while stripping it of its effectiveness seems like a particularly bad idea.

 
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"Anytime Trump does something terrible, remind people that he ALSO welcomed Russian interference in the presidential election and obstructed the investigation into it" doesn't seem like a great debate strategy for Trump supporters. JMHO.

 
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I can't believe this has to be said, but don't bring up assassination when discussing the president. People who do this will be banned indefinitely.

 

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