Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
ah....yes, starting with the false premise I thought we cleared up a while back...I see now. Thanks for the clarification. To be clear, people want you to wear a mask because it's what we as individuals can do to help prevent the spread of the virus, not because it "makes them feel safe".
I'm trying to understand where you draw the line. I have no case to state. As far as your position goes it's "weird" IMO to say you're ok with government to fine individuals for acting poorly but not ok with government attaching behavioral strings to funds for other government use. As you said, that happens all the time...funny that you're not ok with it in this situation. Perhaps "weird" isn't the correct word. I guess it's more accurate to say "completely arbitrary". Anyway, thanks for the position.
Ok here is a tip. Stop worrying about my position. I think that's the fundamental difference here. I couldn't care what your position is and I am not trying to change it. You have your thoughts and I respect them. I don't care about them, but I respect them. Take less time trying to "understand where people draw the line" and just focus on you man. Why is it so important to change other people's minds? Notice how I NEVER do that? You think what you think and God love you for it.
Yes, it's probably stupid of me to try and understand others. In no way do I think I can change YOUR mind. That's of no interest to me whatsoever. I'm simply trying to understand other positions. For one of the 
around this place whining about the "echo chamber" this "stop trying to understand other people" shtick is comedy gold...can't make this kind of stuff up 
Good stuff man. Keep doing you. Hey if trying to know why the posters here think what they think is fuel to your soul, I say filler up!!!
if keeping people from congregating was really an issue (stopping sports, concerts, churches, groups of over 20 or 50, parties, pools etc) ... they'd never have allowed Wal_mart, Lowes and Home depot to be opened, right ? the money of those monster businesses powered the decisions to allow them to stay open IMO
its 100% about them feeling safe .........if it isn't, then you should have no problem with me NOT having a mask on
What health care workers are wearing when treating patients and what you and I wear when walking down one way supermarket aisles (with the "don't tread on me" crowd walking the opposite way) are not equivalent. But yes, early on the wearing of masks by the general public was not really promoted as being beneficial. But there were some competing interest here including but not limited to keeping healthcare workers supplied and to keep from having masks be seen as a substitute for social distancing.
You're simply projecting at this point. I don't care if you wear a mask or not. It's a reflection on you, not me. You do what you have to do. Don't sit around pissing and moaning that your government has everything "shut down" though. That's a result of not doing these simple things...it can all be avoided.
To be clear, the "why" isn't all that important mostly because when its that difficult to get to the "what" in the first place, the why usually ends up being some
nonsense that I'm not even interested in.
Ok man. Here's hoping you got what you wanted.To be clear, the "why" isn't all that important mostly because when its that difficult to get to the "what" in the first place, the why usually ends up being some
If that's true, why are you bothering having a conversation about anything?supermike80 said:
You've been out shopping since this started, right?Stealthycat said:
Who around here do you think believes this?Stealthycat said:
See what's where we differ. Fundamentally. I am absolutely open to hearing what you all think. That's why I'm here. Same reason I go to the other board, I like both sides. The difference is, and where we differ is, I don't care WHY you think what you do. Nor am I interested in changing your opinion.
Huh. See, I find that exactly backwards. I can get "what others think" anywhere, even from a poll on CNN or Fox. A poll or a simple statement like "I am (or am not) in favor of legalized marijuana" doesn't help me challenge my own perceptions or learn anything useful. Whereas, a detailed analysis of "I am (or am not) in favor of legalized marijuana because of reasons X, Y, and Z" allows me to consider information or thought processes that I may not have previously considered, and possibly gives me reason to change my own opinion.
Awesome. We disagree. Not surprised one bit. And yet, I am fully cool with how you feel about it and certainly don't find it "backwards" Not my business to judge how others think.
it relevant because the ineffectiveness of masks then is still the same todayBottomfeeder Sports said:
Consider this a legitimate question, not a gotcha or trolling or anything like that.
You can do whatever you want. I don't care. It isn't up to me to decide what you can or cannot do.
exactly ! not equivalent ..... and promoted or not the reality is my home made mask isn't going to do much at all - that's the truth of it and if anyone really thinks a virus can be stopped by wearing a dinky, poorly worn and rarely washed home made mouth/nose covering they're very much mistaken IMO but hey, if ya'll want to feel safe I'll wear one in publicBottomfeeder Sports said:
Of course not, but I would want to respect your wishes. If you said, "Hey RC, I find those types of questions bothersome and would prefer you don't ask them", then I wouldn't. If you said, "Sure, those questions are cool and I'll do my best to answer them honestly", then I'll keep asking.
well it seems many believe we need mandatory masks
The effectiveness of homemade cloth mask or disposable non medical grade mask or whatever is all up for debate. And I think that the crude testing that been done has been that "it depends". So masks are at best an additional safety measure to help with all of the other measures that need to be in place. To be honest I think the real debate over wearing masks in the health community is whether or not masks are counterproductive. Do people wear mask "instead of" doing the things that are more effective or "in addition to" doing those other things. To me if you wish to argue against mandating wearing of masks then you argue that people wearing masks pose a greater safety risk because they more often substitute wearing a mask for social distance or hand washing which are more effective. (Of course you should have something to support this belief.) In other words you counter "we don't know how effective such masks are but any little bit helps", or specifically "it can't hurt" by showing that it does. That would be a more interesting discussion than the debate as to whether or not the government has enough of a compelling interest in the health of its citizens or residents to infringe on a right to decide to wear a masks. Infringing on rights should require a good reason and that the infringement be actually effective. (see discussions on bans on drugs, gambling, abortion, etc.)
Well that's an interesting question. There are some that feel having a mask on your face not only offers no real protection against this virus but can also make it worse by causing you to touch your face more often, which we all agree isn't good and by giving people a false sense of security.
If you're going to just make up numbers why not go with 20% or 40%...And if the 10% brings it down from 3.0 to 2.7 is it REALLY that effective?
point is, even a little bit of improvement can make a big difference.
Well that logic is faulty. A little bit of improvement might make a little bit of difference. Or it might not at all.
To be fair, you SEEM to be here for more than just misrepresenting peoples' positions and creating straw men to attack, so I'd expect this to be the case. It's been shown time and time again on this board that when two people seek to understand each other better, things go well. If they aren't going well, chances are one or both don't really care to understand the why. Now we know the deal
so masks aren't effective when Rt is large - i.e. NY had Rt >3.5 in March. Masks wouldn't do much to stop that. But when you are down near 1, like most of the country is right now, masks can play a huge role.
I think this article is talking about N95 masks specifically, not so much generic fabric masks.
this paper is worth digging into further.
To be clear. I wasn't really arguing the case that mask were counterproductive, just saying that it was a position that could make sense with supporting evidence.
point of view would dictate that - goggle could add that protection, full helmet mask things .... why not add them too ?
Masks alone, I don't think anybody is saying that or has said that. They are a piece of the equation.
disagree on these points.
I assume because you didn't actually read it, but anyway.
While I agree with the bolded in red ... I think it's more accurate to say "Most kinds of commonly-used face coverings effectively mitigate against both virus-laden exhaled aerosols AND inhaling same". "Effectively mitigate" -- not "eliminate". But the virus doesn't need to be stopped -- curtailing it makes enough of a difference to be worthwhile.
Short of facial trauma/deformity rendering the mask ineffective, there is no medical diagnosis that should preclude wearing a mask. I can imagine some people with anxiety disorders might feel like they’re being smothered as well.
The same reason the police wear bullet-proof vests even though they won't stop all bullets from killing them?
