It's good because they signed a true backup RB. Nobody expects Hyde to do anything more than be a backup. They needed to bring in more bodies and Hyde is essentially just that. A serviceable body that plays RB. He is a good backup to have on a team but he isn't a guy that is going to take over.
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RB James Robinson, NE (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter JFS171
- Start date
He was used a lot but you're being awfully hyperbolic here- Henry, Cook, McCaffrey, Zeke, Montgomery, etc. all receive similar/higher shares of the workload. If they viewed him as a top talent there wouldn't be such an urgency to bring in a back-up. Also, no one is saying "sell", I'm just saying this is far from "best case scenario" for him. You seriously think it wouldn't have been better if they had signed a guy like, I don't know, Alfred Morris/Ameer Abdullah/Ty Montgomery/a dozen other guys instead?
Sure, and they could have brought it someone worse as well, that's the point.
Again, this isn't a huge blow or anything, but it's also far from a huge positive. I don't know about you but I want my RBs getting insane volume.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
And? Hyde is going to change those comps? It's a *bad* thing that those are the names you're including him with?
And yes seriously it is no better/worse than bringing in someone else like those guys. I honestly have no idea what your take here is. But I'm checking out.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I don't own Robinson but to me, this should be considered "good news".
They had to bring in some one and adding Chris Carson, Leonard Fournette or an early draft pick would have been far worse. Carlos Hyde will have a role but far less of one than a lot of other options.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
If the Jags are up at 25 and Etienne is still available, with all their harping on what Robinson is lacking in speed/explosion and obvious pairing Trevor with his college backfield mate I might be puckered up a bit until the pick is in.
Looking back over the past two pages, you're literally the only one pushing this agenda. Are you trying to buy him low?
Pwingles
Footballguy
yeah Im not sure that is going to happen specifically, but if the doomsayers in this thread are worried about hyde, how bummed are they going to be when they draft a guy and also bring back at least one guy from last years RB room? To think he wasnt going to have competition of some sort in year 2 is silly.
I think a guy like Hyde is perfect and so much better than them bringing in (like someone said above) Carson, or even Ingram.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
That isn't true - @rockaction was the first person to mention the buzz from the staff that they want a more explosive back - and that's reality, in that it was said.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Meno, in the last two days I've seen this go from hearing it somewhere to hearing it twice to now "all their harping on what Robinson is lacking....". Now I believe you and I'm not saying you're wrong, but can we get some kind of link?
Because if the quote is "they want to add more explosiveness to the backfield", I think the brakes need pumped a little on this telephone game.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Can we get a quote or a link?
As we know teams don't like to let their assistant coaches speak right now and usually at best we'll hear from the GM and head coach once this time of year, once before the draft.So they both had one shot to talk about Robinson and felt the need to add the following:
Bevell's one time he got to speak he said:"I like his skill set. I like the way he cut the ball. He’s got really good vision. He’s got great contact balance. He can make guys miss at the second level. He can make guys miss and get what we need to. Obviously, he’ll continue to work on speed and those kinds of things, but really like what he’s done and look forward to working with him."www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/jaguars-oc-darrell-bevell-offers-scouting-report-of-james-robinson
Baalke: He's a very consistent performer week in and week out," Baalke said of Robinson, who rushed for 1,070 yards and seven touchdowns as a rookie this past season. "He's tough. He has a great mindset, the type of player we're looking. We have to add some explosive to that room as well and we have to be able to take some of the carries off of James. https://www.jaguars.com/news/baalke-jaguars-looking-to-add-to-rb-room
Had to edit this, I think I messed up Bevell's quote earlier.
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You want literal? I was literally more ahead of the curve on James Robinson then anyone in fantasy football last year and I mean anyone and as such he's already on a healthy amount of my teams. That's as much as I care to justify your comment.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
That is fantastic, thank you! So the bolded is really not an indictment of Robinson in anyway. Adding explosiveness to the *room* is a different linguistic reality than saying James is not explosive. I think I would agree they don't love him but none of this suggests anything other than he is the guy and most of it is high praise.
"We have to be able to take some carries off of James" literally implies he is the lead dog. Everybody in the world knew they were going to be giving him a little less work. They have to and from a FF perspective I'd rather they keep him fresh anyway.
Thanks for sharing, I'd rather read or hear the source when we're parsing language.
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I'm not predicting Ettiene to them, just saying I'll rest easier when he's not an option.
I feel like most people in here are NOT worried about Hyde. I'm not in the tiniest. My only push back on that is people saying it's good news and I don't think it's good or bad, just depth and I don't think it takes them out of looking for the element in a RB they don't feel like they have.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Yeah and I think that is an appropriate amount of caution. I'm blown away we're even talking about Hyde TBH. But I won't feel great unitl we get through the draft either. Gun to my head though I doubt they go that way.
You said you've never seen another team give less work to their #2 RB and now they will be like every other team that has ever stepped on the field. Not sure how much football you watch but I gave those examples to clearly show you're wrong.barackdhouse said:
Of course. Did you think it would be a guy who played for the new head coach signing a 2 yr. deal on the first day?Dr. Octopus said:
The jags clearly prioritized upgrading the RB room. Of course it would have been worse if they brought in someone like Jones or Carson, but did anyone really think that was expected? Once again no one is saying Hyde is huge threat to take the job or a value killer, just saying that it's far from "best case scenario" like some here have said.
Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
I view this as a good signing for Robinson. We all knew they were going to add another back. Them going with a vet that likely won't challenge for the starting job was the ideal.
I will get concerned if they bring a pass catching back like Duke Johnson or Jamal Williams. Someone that might demand significant touches and we end up with a real timeshare.
I will get concerned if they bring a pass catching back like Duke Johnson or Jamal Williams. Someone that might demand significant touches and we end up with a real timeshare.
I don't think he has the top end speed to put him in the top 5. In no order, Chubb, Kamara, Cook, CMC, Henry. That's my top 5 and I can't see him pushing any of those out. Barkley, Aaron Jones and Hunt all probably ahead of him too. He is a very talented back though.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
You seems to be arguing semantics and ignoring context. Would you be happier if people said this is “relatively good news” instead of just “good news”?
I think you’re the one reading too much into the Carlos Hyde acquisition. It’s been a long time since Hyde played for Ohio State so I’m not sure the connection to the HC is all that important.
rockaction
Footballguy
No to both assertions. A few people have said that the GM/coach said this, as Dr. Octopus points out.tangfoot said:
As for personal shares of Robinson, I already sold him and was hesitant to comment because I'd done so, actually (it could come off as justification), but it caught my eye in large ways the other day when the GM said that.
I try not to personalize my takes on the board about anything I've personally done with my teams unless I exclusively talk about it being that way.
This was something I would have been very much on if I rostered him still, or would have taken note of if trying to acquire.
Not to turn this into the AC, but what kind of return did you get? I have him in a couple places where he's my 3rd RB behind two solid guys. I'm not sure if I value him more as my backup/flex/bye week fill-in, or if I should take my profit and move elsewhere
Funny, I see it as the opposite. I think others are ignoring the context of the Meyer connection and this being one of the first signings of free agency. I don't think I'm reading too much into it (again, I'm not dropping him down my rankings or anything), just that it's something that raised a slight flag to me and it seems like most are completely ignoring the possibility that there could be something to it (not likely, but possible).
Everything is semantics when it comes down to it, but "perfect", "great", "good", "neutral", "bad", etc. have very different meanings. IMO this is neutral, but maybe that's because I didn't think there was any realistic possibility that they would even pursue someone like Jones, Carson, etc. I don't think anyone in my leagues was worried about him losing his job, and someone in here is calling him a top 5 NFL RB so I don't think many were factoring in that as even a possibility. IMO Hyde is a bit better than the median pool of RBs they were looking to bring in, so that's why I don't view his signing as a positive for Robinson.
Let's put it this way, if this is good to great news for him, that means he is more to much more valuable today than he was yesterday, right? Would people really be willing to pay more to much for him today than they would have yesterday? I find that hard to believe, but in any event, I don't mean to bog down the thread, just thought it was interesting that this signing was taken so positively by some.
rockaction
Footballguy
I didn't get a king's ransom. I got 2.04, Goedert, and a 2022 1st, which is likely a mid-first. I was looking to sell, honestly, because of Meyer and my worry that his footprints will be all over the organization, from personnel on down. My belief is that the coaches coming in like that always want their guy toting the ball, especially if it's upwards of twenty-twenty-two touches per game.
I'd take a grain of salt on my haul, though, it was certainly up for debate.
But this doesn't color what me or others have been saying, and I was reluctant to post until they did. But I saw it the other day, and like menobrown said, the first thing in my mind was "Etienne" as worst case, "Jefferson or Hubbard" as best case, as far as competition goes. If Meyer brings in a back that profiles as explosive but as a third-down guy, Robinson GMs should exult in that and Hyde, IMO.
This is a great point, and something that I believe is actually slightly to Robinson's favor.
I don't keep up on these things completely, but this is Meyer's first NFL head coaching gig, right?
If so, it says a lot to me that he went after the "comfortable" player that he already knew from OSU. As dynasty players, we've seen what Hyde is in the NFL, but it's very likely that Meyer still views him as the player he was in college, and brought him into the fold based on that. If it's a true meritocracy on that roster, then we'll end up seeing Robinson rise to the top unless they bring in someone to compete with him in the first two rounds of the draft.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Not necessarily, “good news” is relative and can mean different things in different situations.
As an UDFA there was always some chance he could be replaced by a better talent. That can still happen of course but in my mind this makes it less likely. There was also a chance that they could have signed a better level backup RB who could have pushed Robinson or at least cut into his snaps more than a washed up Hyde will.
Anyway it’s not really worth discussing further as you seem to be in the minority (which doesn’t make you wrong of course) and this is turning into an argument based on the semantical differences between different levels of “good”.
Young 8
Footballguy
Or it could've been worse with Drake, Jamaal Williams or Lindsay.
Ask Jacobs owners how happy they are.
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sos32
Footballguy
Waiting on the draft to see how this all unfolds. As of now in a holding patteren, but just cant seen the Jags going RB in rd 1 or rd 2. They get Trevor and have other holes to fill.
Numerous offer for Robinson this offseason, just cant see me pulling the trigger on one for anything aside from a massive haul
Numerous offer for Robinson this offseason, just cant see me pulling the trigger on one for anything aside from a massive haul
People are skittish of Robinson right now and they have reason to be. A UDFA back with a new coaching staff and the draft looming, where the team has multiple picks in high end RB range.
Tl;dr: you won't be getting a massive haul
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Seems like the same argument last year for the Colts not drafting a RB because Mack was coming off a 1k year and Hines was a good #2. But then they realized if they had a better guy back there they'd get even more out of the position.
Apple Juice
Footballguy
Fair assessment and comparison.
"Skittish" is a good word to describe how non-owners feel and I probably would too. Now is not the time to trade Robinson IMO. Yes his value could plummet if the Jags draft an RB, but the increase in value if they don't is worth gambling on.
One difference I would note with Indy is that they had a more complete team than Jacksonville does right now. I believe Indy thought establishing a dominant run game would make them contenders. Most people are assuming the Jags know they are in a rebuild and won't "waste" a high pick on a position where players burn out fast. Doesn't mean they won't, just doesn't seem likely.
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Seems pretty different to me. The Colts were a middle of the pack team with a good defense and highly regarded offensive line. Mack was in the final year of his contract. I think they had substantially fewer holes to fill and could afford to draft a rb a year early. The Jags just lost 15 straight games...
rockaction
Footballguy
I think it all depends on Urban Meyer. I don't think anyone knows because he isn't really saying one thing or another about it. That's what makes this so touch-and-go. Does he think Robinson is an explosive back? That's what matters. Because you know that a guy that handles the ball twenty or so times for him a game will be exactly that -- his definition of explosive. And the definition of explosive defines how one thinks of Robinson for fantasy. Is it ten-yard gains behind a poor-to-average line? Because he checks that box. Is it the house? Because he doesn't. How's Urban feel about both?
That's the rub here.
The more I look at the draft class, the less there is for Robinson to worry about unless Meyer lowers the boom and picks Etienne or something. The Jags have seven picks in the first 130 in the draft. Then they have two sixes and a seventh. You'll see it before then if it happens. That's only three or so days of hand-wringing, fellas. What about it?
That's the rub here.
The more I look at the draft class, the less there is for Robinson to worry about unless Meyer lowers the boom and picks Etienne or something. The Jags have seven picks in the first 130 in the draft. Then they have two sixes and a seventh. You'll see it before then if it happens. That's only three or so days of hand-wringing, fellas. What about it?
Pretty much how I feel and I recently tried to move him for picks 3 or 4 to two teams in need of RB and got shut down quickly.
I for sure don't think he's going to be buried or lose his job but do fear a 3-5 type of PPG trimming if the right kind of RB is drafted.
ETN is the only RB in this draft I'd be concerned they might draft that would be a threat to having a chance to unseat him.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yep. I guess we're reading the same tea leaves here. Etienne or bust, really. Who is more explosive. Harris? No. Robinson already checks his ten-yard gain box. Williams? Not really, if you're looking for long speed.
It's the later guys like Mitchell, Hubbard, Hill, or Herbert that might, but that all looks doubtful. Robinson rosterers can probably exhale just a tad after the pro day testing on this class of RBs.
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
But then some teams want to run the ball more to protect a rookie QB and... 'Round it goes.
Anyway, you're not going to get a lot of you're trading away Robinson right now.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Count me as one who is not the slightest worried about his future. He *will* get some PPG trimmed because *someone* is going to eat into that beastly workload share he got last year. But he is the man. And I do think Lawrence is going to turn this team, with Chark and Viska and Marvin, into a formidable offense, enough for FF anyway. TD upside for Robinson should be expected to go up. He is an excellent receiver as well. My biggest question re:Urban Meyer effect is whether this passing game role will continue. He *will* come off the field more but he is an excellent receiver.
I don't know if people just didn't watch Robinson last year but he is better than almost every name that's been thrown around. At least until proven otherwise. UDFA or not he was elite at the highest level of competition last year. No long speed ok but he has incredible vision and patience and short area burst. He finishes runs and has a nose for the marker and for the endzone. And he has to be pretty smart IMO to have earned that role as an UDFA in a pandemic camp season. He must have learned the playbook and checks and so forth really well. I wonder what the rookie record for snapshare is for a RB in the modern era.
Ok lovefest rant is over but yeah it would take a lot for me to move him.
I don't know if people just didn't watch Robinson last year but he is better than almost every name that's been thrown around. At least until proven otherwise. UDFA or not he was elite at the highest level of competition last year. No long speed ok but he has incredible vision and patience and short area burst. He finishes runs and has a nose for the marker and for the endzone. And he has to be pretty smart IMO to have earned that role as an UDFA in a pandemic camp season. He must have learned the playbook and checks and so forth really well. I wonder what the rookie record for snapshare is for a RB in the modern era.
Ok lovefest rant is over but yeah it would take a lot for me to move him.
Do they? For this level of a prospect? I really don’t know if that’s data backed but you can just as easily make the case it’s better to protect him by giving him a stronger OL to block for him or a better defense so he doesn’t have to chase games late. The best case I think for the Jags possibly using an early round pick on a Rb is the new coaching staff angle. I find it unlikely they do so I do agree it’s best to hold Robinson and likely see that validated then trade if you want out.
I agree it's Etienne to be worried about. The Jags are taking Trevor, and they might take his teammate ETN at 33. It's solid value, the Jags need playmakers, etc. Similar to the "gotta reunite Jamar Chase with Joe Burrow" chatter
rockaction
Footballguy
Chark and Robinson were the two guys I was interested in the most last year. I watched nearly every Jags game. Robinson has decent burst, but is not a top-end athlete compared to some of the runners of today and yesteryear, especially.
A long aside: One thing I've noticed. The running back position, now de-emphasized, is, while not barren in terms of athleticism, coming up short compared to other positions in terms of having world-class athletic specimens there. I was watching Fred Taylor highlights from earlier this decade last night, and the difference was just light years away how good he was. I know testing times are all decreasing and overall the positional athlete now to then is likely better, but it's the relative speed and athleticism we're all talking about when we talk about the game. I'm not seeing it from the current crop of RBs. Maybe Barkley and Taylor. That's really it.
Anyway, that's a long way around saying I'm not too impressed by Robinson's professional-relative (and let's make sure it's about comparing him to other professional football players, not Sunday Joe) athleticism or "burst," as it were, but it's relative to his competition at RB, which I also find lacking when compared to even earlier this decade.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I agree with your assessment about Robinson, the player. Like many, I do not have a sense of what Urban will do and given what he did in free agency I have no expectations of whatever he does working. I think it'd be idiotic of them to target a short shelf life player given the current state of their team though.
This team needs built from the ground-up. Start with the core, positions of high value with relatively long shelf lives. A reasonable arc is to learn to compete in '22 then begin competing in '23. That's when Robinson's contract expires, so assuming his '21 goes a lot like his '20 then ride him until that time then prioritize a more dynamic RB. No sense using scarce resources on the position before then.
rockaction
Footballguy
I agree with your assessment about what the Jaguars should do. I don't have much else to say other than that.
What they will do is always up for debate, but it's likely going to go the way that they do what they should do. We'll see. That's part of the chagrin (and from a neutral bystander's point, fun, or schadenfreude) about watching a messy organization flush with picks actually make those picks.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I was more open minded about what they'd do before March. Not that those moves were crippling - they weren't. They just lack any vision whatsoever.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
He had a 40" vertical at 5'9" 219 he has prototypical size. 3cone was 7.03 which is really good but not great. But the vertical shows explosiveness and it *did* pop onscreen last year. 40 times are over emphasized in a really bad way. This guy is maybe one of the strongest RBs in the league. 24 bench reps is also elite. He has incredible contact balance as well. Oh well. "Not athletic enough" is unbelievably misguided to me here.
Concerns over Urban Meyer and what they're going to do are at least a little bit warranted. The athletic concerns are weird to me because he is incredibly explosive. According to one source he was in the 92nd percentile for burst, 85th Sparq-x score at his combine. Was 97th percentile for dominator rating in college (not an athletic measure but part of the profile). And he showed it on the field in college and the pros.
He was also efficient with his touches. It wasn't just volume based. Anyway I have to check out of this.
Concerns over Urban Meyer and what they're going to do are at least a little bit warranted. The athletic concerns are weird to me because he is incredibly explosive. According to one source he was in the 92nd percentile for burst, 85th Sparq-x score at his combine. Was 97th percentile for dominator rating in college (not an athletic measure but part of the profile). And he showed it on the field in college and the pros.
He was also efficient with his touches. It wasn't just volume based. Anyway I have to check out of this.
I know this is kinda dumb and certainly wouldn't stop them from getting ETN if they wanted to, but Carlos Hyde is the backup at this point. Not great, but Meyer knows what he can do. I would not be terrified of Robinson getting replaced if I owned him. Wonder what it would take to buy him right now...
Born to Run
Footballguy
In 1QB leagues I have him behind the big three rookie RBs, but well ahead of Gainwell. The 1.06 would be either Smith or Waddle which would probably do it. In SF leagues that would somewhere around 1.10.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I doubt there is an offer I'd accept right now. An interested buyer would be trying to do so with a draft uncertainty discount, which I'm not willing to give. He should be in that RB 10-12 give or take zone if Urban isn't a dummy 2 weeks from now.
